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Sorcerer PVP
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Morvane✭✭✭✭Bound Armor-Aegis need rework. What is 1300 resist? Dont feel it like real conjured daedric armor... Mucvh better if it'd provide Major buffs or minor resolves buffs... For example ZoS can take buffs from hurricane and Boundless and place em to Bound Armor and ijncrease damage of Hurricane back again. At least it more logical. Bound Armor with it 1300 defence was the same at 2014, but now 2k18DC Dunmer Sorcerer since 2014
@morvayn54, PC/EU0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭To get rid of shield stacking, the class needs an overhaul -in a number of ways.
I mean, a competent shield user doesn't just stack and laugh... They use a combination of dodging and dmg reduction gear/abilities to protect the shield, and then a bit of survivability to take part-hits so the shield can drop enough to finish your burst.
NB does the former much better than sorc cos cloak and shade (when it works).
Templar/dk/warden does the second better with the ability to both block and heal on a sword n board bar.
If a sorc can no longer stack, they suddenly become worse, defensively than every other mag class who can use a single shield. Sorc will then need to be able to use snb to survive. But that isn't possible on the front bar because there is no spammable. Nor is it possible on the back-bar because there is no block-castable heal..
Complete overhaul...
My take on this would be sorc can no longer stack shields (at all - not even healing ward). Bad for other classes.
You can only have dmg shields with a total strength of 120% of you characters hp - this is halved by battlespirit resulting in maximum of 60% hp value in shields.
Bolt escape + morphs forcemiss attacks for the duration of the port (0.5s or sth - not a complete gcd).
Bol escape + morphs penalty reduced to 33% cost increase and 3s duration.
Streak morph suffers no cost increase if you deal dmg with it.
Powersurge now only grants major sorcery and heals for 3s but the heal becomes 15% weaker each second (effect refreshable).
0s (initial hit) 100% heal 2550
1s 85% heal 2170
2s 70% heal 1785
3s 55% heal 1400
Boundless storm removes snares + roots on activation (no immunity time).
Offensively i´d probably just restore fragments to it´s old state.
Really all they need to do it nerf the magicka refund on harness when stacked with another shield. Have you tried stacking shields with the dampen morph? It doesn’t work for long.
Completely agree on frags though. No idea what they’re thinking, but they broke the class badly.
It seems they gut something on Sorc every few patches. Meanwhile, they still haven’t touched troll king, yet pirate skeleton had to change NOW!
2 -
Morvane✭✭✭✭kyle.wilson wrote: »Anyone that necro's a thread like this should be drawn and quartered.
dont let old forum dwellers tell us what to do!!1DC Dunmer Sorcerer since 2014
@morvayn54, PC/EU0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭To get rid of shield stacking, the class needs an overhaul -in a number of ways.
I mean, a competent shield user doesn't just stack and laugh... They use a combination of dodging and dmg reduction gear/abilities to protect the shield, and then a bit of survivability to take part-hits so the shield can drop enough to finish your burst.
NB does the former much better than sorc cos cloak and shade (when it works).
Templar/dk/warden does the second better with the ability to both block and heal on a sword n board bar.
If a sorc can no longer stack, they suddenly become worse, defensively than every other mag class who can use a single shield. Sorc will then need to be able to use snb to survive. But that isn't possible on the front bar because there is no spammable. Nor is it possible on the back-bar because there is no block-castable heal..
Complete overhaul...
My take on this would be sorc can no longer stack shields (at all - not even healing ward). Bad for other classes.
You can only have dmg shields with a total strength of 120% of you characters hp - this is halved by battlespirit resulting in maximum of 60% hp value in shields.
Bolt escape + morphs forcemiss attacks for the duration of the port (0.5s or sth - not a complete gcd).
Bol escape + morphs penalty reduced to 33% cost increase and 3s duration.
Streak morph suffers no cost increase if you deal dmg with it.
Powersurge now only grants major sorcery and heals for 3s but the heal becomes 15% weaker each second (effect refreshable).
0s (initial hit) 100% heal 2550
1s 85% heal 2170
2s 70% heal 1785
3s 55% heal 1400
Boundless storm removes snares + roots on activation (no immunity time).
Offensively i´d probably just restore fragments to it´s old state.
Really all they need to do it nerf the magicka refund on harness when stacked with another shield. Have you tried stacking shields with the dampen morph? It doesn’t work for long.
Completely agree on frags though. No idea what they’re thinking, but they broke the class badly.
It seems they gut something on Sorc every few patches. Meanwhile, they still haven’t touched troll king, yet pirate skeleton had to change NOW!
I think my proposed changes would lead to sorcs becoming better against multiple opponents while at the same time becoming less tanky against a single one. which would benefit the class greatly.
Stacking dampen + hardened does not even have to work for long - if you´re fighting in a situation where you know you´ll get friendly add.
It´s the same as permablocking and backpeddal. It creates asinine gameplay where you simple outtank an opponent for x amount of time without any actualy counterplay but just spamming 2 / holding 1 button.
It´s too effective and too easy.Edited by Derra on January 15, 2018 11:33AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭To get rid of shield stacking, the class needs an overhaul -in a number of ways.
I mean, a competent shield user doesn't just stack and laugh... They use a combination of dodging and dmg reduction gear/abilities to protect the shield, and then a bit of survivability to take part-hits so the shield can drop enough to finish your burst.
NB does the former much better than sorc cos cloak and shade (when it works).
Templar/dk/warden does the second better with the ability to both block and heal on a sword n board bar.
If a sorc can no longer stack, they suddenly become worse, defensively than every other mag class who can use a single shield. Sorc will then need to be able to use snb to survive. But that isn't possible on the front bar because there is no spammable. Nor is it possible on the back-bar because there is no block-castable heal..
Complete overhaul...
My take on this would be sorc can no longer stack shields (at all - not even healing ward). Bad for other classes.
You can only have dmg shields with a total strength of 120% of you characters hp - this is halved by battlespirit resulting in maximum of 60% hp value in shields.
Bolt escape + morphs forcemiss attacks for the duration of the port (0.5s or sth - not a complete gcd).
Bol escape + morphs penalty reduced to 33% cost increase and 3s duration.
Streak morph suffers no cost increase if you deal dmg with it.
Powersurge now only grants major sorcery and heals for 3s but the heal becomes 15% weaker each second (effect refreshable).
0s (initial hit) 100% heal 2550
1s 85% heal 2170
2s 70% heal 1785
3s 55% heal 1400
Boundless storm removes snares + roots on activation (no immunity time).
Offensively i´d probably just restore fragments to it´s old state.
Really all they need to do it nerf the magicka refund on harness when stacked with another shield. Have you tried stacking shields with the dampen morph? It doesn’t work for long.
Completely agree on frags though. No idea what they’re thinking, but they broke the class badly.
It seems they gut something on Sorc every few patches. Meanwhile, they still haven’t touched troll king, yet pirate skeleton had to change NOW!
I think my proposed changes would lead to sorcs becoming better against multiple opponents while at the same time becoming less tanky against a single one. which would benefit the class greatly.
Stacking dampen + hardened does not even have to work for long - if you´re fighting in a situation where you know you´ll get friendly add.
It´s the same as permablocking and backpeddal. It creates asinine gameplay where you simple outtank an opponent for x amount of time without any actualy counterplay but just spamming 2 / holding 1 button.
It´s too effective and too easy.
Not really if you can’t even use healing ward with hardened ward up. It means we can’t even heal on top of everything else.
I don’t even want to talk about Sorc nerfs right now, we’re in such a bad place that it’s hard to even have a remotely respectful dialogue with you about it.
Then you see the off balance changes next patch and what it’s going to do to our already super-powered MagDK overlords, and you wonder if anyone at ZOS has half a brain or even gives a %#*^.
We need that stun and damage back on crystal frags. It won’t ‘fix’ our class, but it’ll make dealing with the garbage mechanics in this game more palatable.
We shouldnt have to farm veteran Dragonstar just to be able to play the game. I can’t even find a damn group for this dungeon, it can’t be pugged, and Im about frustrated enough to go back on hiatus for another six months.
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Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Attro will be useful with the next patch in pure singletarget fights - slightly outperforming meteor for pve.
praise gods, our class is fine and perfectly balanced now
jk, that's good to know, thx for the infoProblem is that it´s useless in pvp as it simply dies too easily.
I have to disagree here. It dies easily only in 1vsX, but you really can't use it when outnumbered since you'll be kiting 90% of time. Maybe it can use a rework to follow the caster (like engine guardian) and attack nearby enemies.
Are you really gonna argue with derra, out of all people, about mag sorcs?0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Attro will be useful with the next patch in pure singletarget fights - slightly outperforming meteor for pve.
praise gods, our class is fine and perfectly balanced now
jk, that's good to know, thx for the infoProblem is that it´s useless in pvp as it simply dies too easily.
I have to disagree here. It dies easily only in 1vsX, but you really can't use it when outnumbered since you'll be kiting 90% of time. Maybe it can use a rework to follow the caster (like engine guardian) and attack nearby enemies.
Are you really gonna argue with derra, out of all people, about mag sorcs?
He's right, though.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭To get rid of shield stacking, the class needs an overhaul -in a number of ways.
I mean, a competent shield user doesn't just stack and laugh... They use a combination of dodging and dmg reduction gear/abilities to protect the shield, and then a bit of survivability to take part-hits so the shield can drop enough to finish your burst.
NB does the former much better than sorc cos cloak and shade (when it works).
Templar/dk/warden does the second better with the ability to both block and heal on a sword n board bar.
If a sorc can no longer stack, they suddenly become worse, defensively than every other mag class who can use a single shield. Sorc will then need to be able to use snb to survive. But that isn't possible on the front bar because there is no spammable. Nor is it possible on the back-bar because there is no block-castable heal..
Complete overhaul...
My take on this would be sorc can no longer stack shields (at all - not even healing ward). Bad for other classes.
You can only have dmg shields with a total strength of 120% of you characters hp - this is halved by battlespirit resulting in maximum of 60% hp value in shields.
Bolt escape + morphs forcemiss attacks for the duration of the port (0.5s or sth - not a complete gcd).
Bol escape + morphs penalty reduced to 33% cost increase and 3s duration.
Streak morph suffers no cost increase if you deal dmg with it.
Powersurge now only grants major sorcery and heals for 3s but the heal becomes 15% weaker each second (effect refreshable).
0s (initial hit) 100% heal 2550
1s 85% heal 2170
2s 70% heal 1785
3s 55% heal 1400
Boundless storm removes snares + roots on activation (no immunity time).
Offensively i´d probably just restore fragments to it´s old state.
Really all they need to do it nerf the magicka refund on harness when stacked with another shield. Have you tried stacking shields with the dampen morph? It doesn’t work for long.
Completely agree on frags though. No idea what they’re thinking, but they broke the class badly.
It seems they gut something on Sorc every few patches. Meanwhile, they still haven’t touched troll king, yet pirate skeleton had to change NOW!
I think my proposed changes would lead to sorcs becoming better against multiple opponents while at the same time becoming less tanky against a single one. which would benefit the class greatly.
Stacking dampen + hardened does not even have to work for long - if you´re fighting in a situation where you know you´ll get friendly add.
It´s the same as permablocking and backpeddal. It creates asinine gameplay where you simple outtank an opponent for x amount of time without any actualy counterplay but just spamming 2 / holding 1 button.
It´s too effective and too easy.
Not really if you can’t even use healing ward with hardened ward up. It means we can’t even heal on top of everything else.
I don’t even want to talk about Sorc nerfs right now, we’re in such a bad place that it’s hard to even have a remotely respectful dialogue with you about it.
Then you see the off balance changes next patch and what it’s going to do to our already super-powered MagDK overlords, and you wonder if anyone at ZOS has half a brain or even gives a %#*^.
We need that stun and damage back on crystal frags. It won’t ‘fix’ our class, but it’ll make dealing with the garbage mechanics in this game more palatable.
We shouldnt have to farm veteran Dragonstar just to be able to play the game. I can’t even find a damn group for this dungeon, it can’t be pugged, and Im about frustrated enough to go back on hiatus for another six months.
The surge change would be a tremendous buff for selfhealing on sorc.
The change to bolt escape + boundless would once again center sorc more around survival due to superior mobility instead of tanking opponents.
I play sorc solo almost daily still - so i have to admit i fail to see where my proposed changes put you in a position where its hard to have a respectful dialogue.
I think the changes would greatly increase survivability on sorcs that play mobility oriented.
It would finally make streak a vaible combat spell again.
It would greatly reduce the viability of 2/3 button spamming wannabe sorcs that are inept to kill anything but get kicks out of trolling people with shields.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Attro will be useful with the next patch in pure singletarget fights - slightly outperforming meteor for pve.
praise gods, our class is fine and perfectly balanced now
jk, that's good to know, thx for the infoProblem is that it´s useless in pvp as it simply dies too easily.
I have to disagree here. It dies easily only in 1vsX, but you really can't use it when outnumbered since you'll be kiting 90% of time. Maybe it can use a rework to follow the caster (like engine guardian) and attack nearby enemies.
Are you really gonna argue with derra, out of all people, about mag sorcs?
He's right, though.
No he´s not. Most dmg oriented builds can very favorably trade ultimates and/or resources with the sorc by killing the attro (UNLESS IT`S A PETBUILD) - it does not get increased shields and has relatively high cost and triggers fighters guild passives when killed.
An opponent utilizing dawnbreaker, incap/soulharvest or leap should aim to kill the attro. It will either die really quickly OR the sorc has to resort to spamming 33% more shields (less offensive time) than it would be when you target the sorc.
Ofc you also have the option to simply run out of range but that means basically never killing the sorc.Edited by Derra on January 15, 2018 4:40PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Powersurge now only grants major sorcery and heals for 3s but the heal becomes 15% weaker each second (effect refreshable).
0s (initial hit) 100% heal 2550
1s 85% heal 2170
2s 70% heal 1785
3s 55% heal 1400
Not sure I understand what you are trying to do here.
Is this meant to be a HoT you get a few seconds after casting it then no heals (i.e. removing the heal proc from critical hits)?Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Powersurge now only grants major sorcery and heals for 3s but the heal becomes 15% weaker each second (effect refreshable).
0s (initial hit) 100% heal 2550
1s 85% heal 2170
2s 70% heal 1785
3s 55% heal 1400
Not sure I understand what you are trying to do here.
Is this meant to be a HoT you get a few seconds after casting it then no heals (i.e. removing the heal proc from critical hits)?
No it´s meant to be a short hot triggered by critically hitting a target.
If you´d score a crit every second nothing would change to the current behavior on live of surge. However it would improve for situations where you simply don´t attack or don´t crit a target.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Jamini✭✭✭✭✭MagSorc is in an absolutely fine place right now.
1. MagSorc has unmatched mobility. Streak is hilariously powerful, and it's possible to streak 3-4 times before running out of mag with a standard build (twice more with Dark Conversion) as well as having expedition up with Lightning form. It is very easy to get the hell out of dodge in bad situations that other classes would just outright die or be forced to 1vX in. (barring NBs, who can cloak out) It also makes sorcs exceptional at securing kills on running enemies, since you can "gapclose" on someone that is using terrain as cover. (something that no other class can do). Because of this mobility, sorcs are one of the safest classes to run damage sets on (light armor)
2. Endless fury and implosion are the best executes in the game. Hands-down. Not only do they automatically hit once the target gets under the threshold, but anyone you tag with the ability who uses stealth will get knocked out when the second hit of endless goes off. This ability is excellent in BGs, and functions very well in any open-world content as long as you have a solid team at your back.
3. Negate. Is. Amazing. Excepting earthgore, nothing stops it and nothing in the game *** up ENTIRE TEAMS of players more than an AoE silence. Negate is by far the easiest, safest, and most effective AoE ulti in the game. The only ults that really compare to it are Permafrost and Soul Tether (which are centered on caster, and thus far more high-risk high-reward).
4. Sorcs Synergize very, very well with lightning staves, and destructive reach/clench is a high-damage spamable that comes with a stun attached. Master staves, if you are able to get them, make the skill even better. (The ability has more damage than frags with a master lit staff!)
5. Frags is still a huge burst ability even without the stun. Once it procs you have in your pocket an excellent burst on an instant cast.
6. Sorc shields are pretty damn strong, and make the sorc themselves uncrittable while up. Unless you burn all your stam for a break free, get zerged (in which case, you will die), or unwittingly burn all of your mag so you can't streak out of a bad spot a sorc should never go down. All of these ways to die are mistakes on the sorcerer's part and can be remedied by experience, practice, and situational awareness.
7. Matriarch, if you are willing to use pets, is a fairly reliable non-directional heal that is equivalent to BoL. Very good in group play if you lack a warden or templar healer for your group.
8. Mines. Combine with streak for making people chasing your streaking ass absolutely hate you.
Mobility is key in PvP. Sorcs are the kings of mobility. While magsorcs are most certainly not the best class for 1vX (Stamsorcs do decently at it), their mobility means they really should never need to 1vX in an unfavorable situation. In a group fight they make excellent skirmishers and backline burst units, have strong support skills, and they have the most uniquely powerful ult in the game.
Frankly, I wish my DKs were nearly as easy and fun to play as my Sorc. Comparing a single night of PvP on sorc to almost a year on two flavors of DK, I can honestly say the Sorc was absolutely fun, and overall more useful."Adapt. or Die."1 -
Jamini✭✭✭✭✭Also why use surge when you can use entropy? C'mon. Surge is a PvE skill."Adapt. or Die."0
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I can´t quite put my finger on it but every time someone coming from a different class is trying to tell my sorry 105 million ap made solo/smallgrp on sorc ass that the class is fine and i`m just doing it wrong/whatever i get supertriggered.
It´s like trump talking about climate change. Just makes me want to hurt someone.
Surge a pve skill - where literally everyone uses spellpower pots
Edited by Derra on January 15, 2018 4:47PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 506 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭To get rid of shield stacking, the class needs an overhaul -in a number of ways.
I mean, a competent shield user doesn't just stack and laugh... They use a combination of dodging and dmg reduction gear/abilities to protect the shield, and then a bit of survivability to take part-hits so the shield can drop enough to finish your burst.
NB does the former much better than sorc cos cloak and shade (when it works).
Templar/dk/warden does the second better with the ability to both block and heal on a sword n board bar.
If a sorc can no longer stack, they suddenly become worse, defensively than every other mag class who can use a single shield. Sorc will then need to be able to use snb to survive. But that isn't possible on the front bar because there is no spammable. Nor is it possible on the back-bar because there is no block-castable heal..
Complete overhaul...
My take on this would be sorc can no longer stack shields (at all - not even healing ward). Bad for other classes.
You can only have dmg shields with a total strength of 120% of you characters hp - this is halved by battlespirit resulting in maximum of 60% hp value in shields.
Bolt escape + morphs forcemiss attacks for the duration of the port (0.5s or sth - not a complete gcd).
Bol escape + morphs penalty reduced to 33% cost increase and 3s duration.
Streak morph suffers no cost increase if you deal dmg with it.
Powersurge now only grants major sorcery and heals for 3s but the heal becomes 15% weaker each second (effect refreshable).
0s (initial hit) 100% heal 2550
1s 85% heal 2170
2s 70% heal 1785
3s 55% heal 1400
Boundless storm removes snares + roots on activation (no immunity time).
Offensively i´d probably just restore fragments to it´s old state.
Really all they need to do it nerf the magicka refund on harness when stacked with another shield. Have you tried stacking shields with the dampen morph? It doesn’t work for long.
Completely agree on frags though. No idea what they’re thinking, but they broke the class badly.
It seems they gut something on Sorc every few patches. Meanwhile, they still haven’t touched troll king, yet pirate skeleton had to change NOW!
I think my proposed changes would lead to sorcs becoming better against multiple opponents while at the same time becoming less tanky against a single one. which would benefit the class greatly.
Stacking dampen + hardened does not even have to work for long - if you´re fighting in a situation where you know you´ll get friendly add.
It´s the same as permablocking and backpeddal. It creates asinine gameplay where you simple outtank an opponent for x amount of time without any actualy counterplay but just spamming 2 / holding 1 button.
It´s too effective and too easy.
Not really if you can’t even use healing ward with hardened ward up. It means we can’t even heal on top of everything else.
I don’t even want to talk about Sorc nerfs right now, we’re in such a bad place that it’s hard to even have a remotely respectful dialogue with you about it.
Then you see the off balance changes next patch and what it’s going to do to our already super-powered MagDK overlords, and you wonder if anyone at ZOS has half a brain or even gives a %#*^.
We need that stun and damage back on crystal frags. It won’t ‘fix’ our class, but it’ll make dealing with the garbage mechanics in this game more palatable.
We shouldnt have to farm veteran Dragonstar just to be able to play the game. I can’t even find a damn group for this dungeon, it can’t be pugged, and Im about frustrated enough to go back on hiatus for another six months.
The surge change would be a tremendous buff for selfhealing on sorc.
The change to bolt escape + boundless would once again center sorc more around survival due to superior mobility instead of tanking opponents.
I play sorc solo almost daily still - so i have to admit i fail to see where my proposed changes put you in a position where its hard to have a respectful dialogue.
I think the changes would greatly increase survivability on sorcs that play mobility oriented.
It would finally make streak a vaible combat spell again.
It would greatly reduce the viability of 2/3 button spamming wannabe sorcs that are inept to kill anything but get kicks out of trolling people with shields.
Trolling people with shields is about all we have left! Lol
I’d definitely like to see a streak buff to offset some shield change. But at this point I doubt Wrobel would give us anything remotely resembling a buff.0 -
Jamini✭✭✭✭✭Go get triggered m8. I'm coming from another class and going "Wow, this is fun and easy to play."
I had a blast playing sorc last night, but it took me way less time to get into it, adjusted, and pull in a good chunk of AP with my own smallscale than it ever did for me to learn to play StamDK and MagDK effectively. StamBlade was similarly fairly easy to learn. Warden was intermediate, and I haven't tried running a non-healer templar yet.
Entropy is solid AF, and I found the returns on it more reliable than Surge (plus it applies a nice DoT). Surge is something I use in vMA (which this sorc is designed for farming originally) and when I don't want to blow tons of cash on doing non-vtrials. The heal is far too small to use in PvP, and frankly I was taking advice on using entropy over it from the three or so main sorcs that I grab advice from in my guilds because they all have countless hours on sorcerer.
I'm not dissing you or telling you how to play, but I am curious if you play other classes outside of sorc much? The difference between MagSorc and MagDK is especially notable (the latter is pretty damn hard to play well), and I found MagSorc way easier to pick up then most stam classes."Adapt. or Die."0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I can´t quite put my finger on it but every time someone coming from a different class is trying to tell my sorry 105 million ap made solo/smallgrp on sorc ass that the class is fine and i`m just doing it wrong/whatever i get supertriggered.
It´s like trump talking about climate change. Just makes me want to hurt someone.
Surge a pve skill - where literally everyone uses spellpower pots
At what crit chance would you say Surge outperforms degeneration?0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Go get triggered m8. I'm coming from another class and going "Wow, this is fun and easy to play."
I had a blast playing sorc last night, but it took me way less time to get into it, adjusted, and pull in a good chunk of AP with my own smallscale than it ever did for me to learn to play StamDK and MagDK effectively. StamBlade was similarly fairly easy to learn. Warden was intermediate, and I haven't tried running a non-healer templar yet.
Entropy is solid AF, and I found the returns on it more reliable than Surge (plus it applies a nice DoT). Surge is something I use in vMA (which this sorc is designed for farming originally) and when I don't want to blow tons of cash on doing non-vtrials. The heal is far too small to use in PvP, and frankly I was taking advice on using entropy over it from the three or so main sorcs that I grab advice from in my guilds because they all have countless hours on sorcerer.
I'm not dissing you or telling you how to play, but I am curious if you play other classes outside of sorc much? The difference between MagSorc and MagDK is especially notable (the latter is pretty damn hard to play well), and I found MagSorc way easier to pick up then most stam classes.
There's a difference between "easily picking up" a class and actually playing it at a competitive level.
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Jamini✭✭✭✭✭Go get triggered m8. I'm coming from another class and going "Wow, this is fun and easy to play."
I had a blast playing sorc last night, but it took me way less time to get into it, adjusted, and pull in a good chunk of AP with my own smallscale than it ever did for me to learn to play StamDK and MagDK effectively. StamBlade was similarly fairly easy to learn. Warden was intermediate, and I haven't tried running a non-healer templar yet.
Entropy is solid AF, and I found the returns on it more reliable than Surge (plus it applies a nice DoT). Surge is something I use in vMA (which this sorc is designed for farming originally) and when I don't want to blow tons of cash on doing non-vtrials. The heal is far too small to use in PvP, and frankly I was taking advice on using entropy over it from the three or so main sorcs that I grab advice from in my guilds because they all have countless hours on sorcerer.
I'm not dissing you or telling you how to play, but I am curious if you play other classes outside of sorc much? The difference between MagSorc and MagDK is especially notable (the latter is pretty damn hard to play well), and I found MagSorc way easier to pick up then most stam classes.
There's a difference between "easily picking up" a class and actually playing it at a competitive level.
Are you going to deny then, that sorcerers have the best mobility in the game (on par with, or better than NB), a unique ult that cannot be replicated (negate), excellent shields, the best kill-securing execute ability and passive (fury and implosion), and comparable burst to every other class in the game?
Outside of Earthgore-Destro chains (which are frankly, broken and suck equally to fight for everyone) sorcerers have an excellently defined role that cannot be replicated by any other class as well as being competitive in 1v1 encounters. The only situation they are outright weak in is a 1vX scenario, which is something that can be avoided with awareness, LOS, and Streak.
Sorcs are in a good place. A great place really. They are not weak, and frankly I'd always want one in my group for negate and their execute.Edited by Jamini on January 15, 2018 5:18PM"Adapt. or Die."0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Attro will be useful with the next patch in pure singletarget fights - slightly outperforming meteor for pve.
praise gods, our class is fine and perfectly balanced now
jk, that's good to know, thx for the infoProblem is that it´s useless in pvp as it simply dies too easily.
I have to disagree here. It dies easily only in 1vsX, but you really can't use it when outnumbered since you'll be kiting 90% of time. Maybe it can use a rework to follow the caster (like engine guardian) and attack nearby enemies.
Are you really gonna argue with derra, out of all people, about mag sorcs?
He's right, though.
No he´s not. Most dmg oriented builds can very favorably trade ultimates and/or resources with the sorc by killing the attro (UNLESS IT`S A PETBUILD) - it does not get increased shields and has relatively high cost and triggers fighters guild passives when killed.
An opponent utilizing dawnbreaker, incap/soulharvest or leap should aim to kill the attro. It will either die really quickly OR the sorc has to resort to spamming 33% more shields (less offensive time) than it would be when you target the sorc.
Ofc you also have the option to simply run out of range but that means basically never killing the sorc.
But it's useless in OW.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭being competitive in 1v1 encounters.
They are not unless you run a dedicated dueling petbuild.
I could do the same arguments about stamDK and magDKs role being for dueling and bg solo node guards - which is where they excell at.
There is no point in making such comparisons though. It´s asinine as it only goes to hold classes back and keep the status quo for all classes that nobody is happy with.Edited by Derra on January 15, 2018 5:51PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yeah sorcerers are in a bad state currently noticeably the weakest class in the game and outclassed in most content. but still Sorcs aren't bad I mean I still tare in up in PVP we just lack the skills that every other class has. for a game that often spouted a play as you want mentality I guess sorcs were left out on that
I guess all those sorcs I see soloing content every other class dies to easily, and the endless carnage they spread in PVP was just an illusion.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Derra has been really on in this thread.
Sorc is easy to pick up because your abilities slot themselves (I mean are you Not gonna run wrath curse frag lmao?)
It's easy to pick up, because there's only one way it can be done.
What's the difference between PvP sorc builds? At most 2 abilities (such as entropy, pet, surge and which hard CC you prefer) that's it.
I would place my money on just about any other class if it was 1v1.
Sure mobility is great on a Sorc, but is constantly running away a viable argument for balance in Combat? I don't think ao5 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yeah sorcerers are in a bad state currently noticeably the weakest class in the game and outclassed in most content. but still Sorcs aren't bad I mean I still tare in up in PVP we just lack the skills that every other class has. for a game that often spouted a play as you want mentality I guess sorcs were left out on that
I guess all those sorcs I see soloing content every other class dies to easily, and the endless carnage they spread in PVP was just an illusion.
https://youtu.be/qHBQ0c5f-Zo
Maybe by endless carnage you mean Sorcs in a super Zerg spamming mage wrath?1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I can´t quite put my finger on it but every time someone coming from a different class is trying to tell my sorry 105 million ap made solo/smallgrp on sorc ass that the class is fine and i`m just doing it wrong/whatever i get supertriggered.
It´s like trump talking about climate change. Just makes me want to hurt someone.
Surge a pve skill - where literally everyone uses spellpower pots
So much awesome in one post Derra.
Don’t mind me today, I’m just bitter that I can’t get into a VDSA group so that I can use the only decent CC left available to us.
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Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have multiple sorcs,To get rid of shield stacking, the class needs an overhaul -in a number of ways.
I mean, a competent shield user doesn't just stack and laugh... They use a combination of dodging and dmg reduction gear/abilities to protect the shield, and then a bit of survivability to take part-hits so the shield can drop enough to finish your burst.
NB does the former much better than sorc cos cloak and shade (when it works).
Templar/dk/warden does the second better with the ability to both block and heal on a sword n board bar.
If a sorc can no longer stack, they suddenly become worse, defensively than every other mag class who can use a single shield. Sorc will then need to be able to use snb to survive. But that isn't possible on the front bar because there is no spammable. Nor is it possible on the back-bar because there is no block-castable heal..
Complete overhaul...
My take on this would be sorc can no longer stack shields (at all - not even healing ward). Bad for other classes.
You can only have dmg shields with a total strength of 120% of you characters hp - this is halved by battlespirit resulting in maximum of 60% hp value in shields.
Bolt escape + morphs forcemiss attacks for the duration of the port (0.5s or sth - not a complete gcd).
Bol escape + morphs penalty reduced to 33% cost increase and 3s duration.
Streak morph suffers no cost increase if you deal dmg with it.
Powersurge now only grants major sorcery and heals for 3s but the heal becomes 15% weaker each second (effect refreshable).
0s (initial hit) 100% heal 2550
1s 85% heal 2170
2s 70% heal 1785
3s 55% heal 1400
Boundless storm removes snares + roots on activation (no immunity time).
Offensively i´d probably just restore fragments to it´s old state.
Really all they need to do it nerf the magicka refund on harness when stacked with another shield. Have you tried stacking shields with the dampen morph? It doesn’t work for long.
Completely agree on frags though. No idea what they’re thinking, but they broke the class badly.
It seems they gut something on Sorc every few patches. Meanwhile, they still haven’t touched troll king, yet pirate skeleton had to change NOW!
I think my proposed changes would lead to sorcs becoming better against multiple opponents while at the same time becoming less tanky against a single one. which would benefit the class greatly.
Stacking dampen + hardened does not even have to work for long - if you´re fighting in a situation where you know you´ll get friendly add.
It´s the same as permablocking and backpeddal. It creates asinine gameplay where you simple outtank an opponent for x amount of time without any actualy counterplay but just spamming 2 / holding 1 button.
It´s too effective and too easy.
Not really if you can’t even use healing ward with hardened ward up. It means we can’t even heal on top of everything else.
I don’t even want to talk about Sorc nerfs right now, we’re in such a bad place that it’s hard to even have a remotely respectful dialogue with you about it.
Then you see the off balance changes next patch and what it’s going to do to our already super-powered MagDK overlords, and you wonder if anyone at ZOS has half a brain or even gives a %#*^.
We need that stun and damage back on crystal frags. It won’t ‘fix’ our class, but it’ll make dealing with the garbage mechanics in this game more palatable.
We shouldnt have to farm veteran Dragonstar just to be able to play the game. I can’t even find a damn group for this dungeon, it can’t be pugged, and Im about frustrated enough to go back on hiatus for another six months.
The surge change would be a tremendous buff for selfhealing on sorc.
The change to bolt escape + boundless would once again center sorc more around survival due to superior mobility instead of tanking opponents.
I play sorc solo almost daily still - so i have to admit i fail to see where my proposed changes put you in a position where its hard to have a respectful dialogue.
I think the changes would greatly increase survivability on sorcs that play mobility oriented.
It would finally make streak a vaible combat spell again.
It would greatly reduce the viability of 2/3 button spamming wannabe sorcs that are inept to kill anything but get kicks out of trolling people with shields.
Trolling people with shields is about all we have left! Lol
I’d definitely like to see a streak buff to offset some shield change. But at this point I doubt Wrobel would give us anything remotely resembling a buff.
I can help you build around force pulse until you get a Vdsa staff. Don't forget there is a trade off running clench over pulse. The latter isn't reflected.
You don't need a masters staff to be effective. I chose that build because I enjoy the play style.
But to Lexys point, I think you just gotta build to high dmg. In around a 1v1 scenario you don't need wizards you can run shadowrend which is probably close to bis....pelican swears it is useful in open world as the tail swipe against X opponents applies the maim debuff to them all, I just never had that level of success with it.
Are you vampire? I have considered dropping it due to all the magdks I encounter especially in duels. It offers nothing but some sustain and survivability which I think we can do without in dueling.
You know I am down for some 2vX on my DC sorc. Once I get my skills to rank IV, I'm sure we can pull off some good stuff.
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Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah sorcerers are in a bad state currently noticeably the weakest class in the game and outclassed in most content. but still Sorcs aren't bad I mean I still tare in up in PVP we just lack the skills that every other class has. for a game that often spouted a play as you want mentality I guess sorcs were left out on that
I guess all those sorcs I see soloing content every other class dies to easily, and the endless carnage they spread in PVP was just an illusion.
Unless you are on Xbox you are full if it. Xbox has a lot more sorcs running around than PC, and it's probably because PC sorcs are fed up with Miats PvP crutches.
I know this because I play sorc on both platforms.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Powersurge now only grants major sorcery and heals for 3s but the heal becomes 15% weaker each second (effect refreshable).
0s (initial hit) 100% heal 2550
1s 85% heal 2170
2s 70% heal 1785
3s 55% heal 1400
Not sure I understand what you are trying to do here.
Is this meant to be a HoT you get a few seconds after casting it then no heals (i.e. removing the heal proc from critical hits)?
No it´s meant to be a short hot triggered by critically hitting a target.
If you´d score a crit every second nothing would change to the current behavior on live of surge. However it would improve for situations where you simply don´t attack or don´t crit a target.
Oh, that's a pretty awesome suggestion.
+1 here. Much rather have that than shield stacking.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.1