Am I the only one who sees this?

Datolite · December 2017

I watch people posting their results from RNG crates, complaining about their bad luck and how much they spent. I watch these same people go back and flash their credit card at the crown store for another run at those exclusive skins/mounts/whatever. It's kind of disturbing to see such a blatantly exploitative system become so commonplace. Real-money gambling under the guise of a video game.

Please keep in mind, I am okay with the item store and have spent a fair share supporting the development of my favorite online game. That being said, the gambling thing is beyond uncool. It targets the whales and people with zero self-control. Those who don't understand how they're being manipulated into funneling their money into what's essentially a slot machine for online items.

What ever happened to the days of earning a cool mount? Failing that, I am even okay with buying it for $40 to support the game. But ESO is 'buy to play', has an item store, gambling crates AND a sub? We are being fleeced, guys and gals. And the RNG crates are just salt on the wound.

So before we see another Battlefront 2 EA-style debacle, please...

Stop buying crates.

Stop perpetuating a terrible, RNG reward system in a progression-based game. This is not a Korean MMO.

Stop enabling real-money gambling in video games. If you buy crates, you are part of the problem.

They were designed to take advantage of people with too much money or not enough self-control. Don't be that guy.

When you buy crates you not only waste money, but you compromise the future of the game for the rest of us.

Please, stop letting the publisher rip you off.

Apache_Kid · December 2017

Agreed. I'd like to see the profit margins of ZoS and what they are making off of this game. It seems that they are running on a bare-bones skeleton crew of Devs due to the number of bugs that consistently go unfixed yet they are selling things in their in-game store for crazy prices ALONG with gamble boxes ALONG with selling subs AND with people having to give them money just to play the game. I've always said that if we saw the profit percentages this game makes off of the crown store and the crates that we would all be disgusted with how little of that is being invested back into the game. It's clear that they aren't investing enough into the game as Cyrodiil still cannot be played in at peak times without lag and certain bugs like mount speed bugs, activity finder bugs, lightning staff bugs, have been broken for a year yet the crown-store gets constant updates and never goes down or glitches out. Really makes you think.

Maura_Neysa · December 2017

| agree with this with the addition of Radiant Apex items. When you could save up gems from your failed (my) attempts it was okay because you'd get there eventually even without self control. Make everything available for gems, even if its a staggering number of them.

PrayingSeraph · December 2017

See, I fully understand not wanting to buy crates, and I support making people aware with what they are getting into with crates, but I tire of people telling other people how or what they should or shouldn't do with their money.

If you want a crown crate item and have the funds to do so, go ahead and buy them. You're supporting the lifespan of the game.

And the melodrama from the anti crate crowd is getting tiring...

Didgerion · December 2017

Yeah the crates system is very RNG unfriendly - and looks like a disguised gambling system.

StormIV · December 2017

Hey Guys,

Loot-boxes are addictive and they are absolutely gambling. Courts all over the world are looking into how these game systems prey on teenagers, and are taking action against them. The Justice Minister in Belgium called for a ban of loot boxes from video games.

I myself have fallen victim to loot boxes. Once I quit that game, I never made that mistake again. Hope everyone else learns as well! But do keep in mind, money that goes to crown purchases and crates funds the hardworking developers of the game we love...

Metafae · December 2017

I see no harm in buying a few crates and trying your luck.
If you get something good, fantastic. If you don't, oh well better luck next season.

If you're buying them for a specific item you're just going to be disappointed.

I've bought a lot of crates since they launched and I've never gotten a Radiant Apex mount.
I know others who have spent less than me on the crates and gotten one but its just luck.

I figure one day I will get one and it's probably going to be one that I'm not interested in.
At this points its not a big issue, I have more mounts than characters, can't show them all off either because they don't let you have enough special furnishing items in your house. Now that's the real crime here!

Hippie4927 · December 2017

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

See, I fully understand not wanting to buy crates, and I support making people aware with what they are getting into with crates, but I tire of people telling other people how or what they should or shouldn't do with their money.

If you want a crown crate item and have the funds to do so, go ahead and buy them. You're supporting the lifespan of the game.

And the melodrama from the anti crate crowd is getting tiring...

^^So much this^^

I'm probably much older than most of you and will do what I please with my money! I am not addicted to crown crates but I, occasionally, buy some. The last four I purchased netted me two flame atronach mounts (the senche and the wolf), the white fennic fox, and a pocket mammoth. Not bad for 4 crates. This game is not for children so I don't have a problem with crates as long as they remain vanity items.

Leandor · December 2017

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

See, I fully understand not wanting to buy crates, and I support making people aware with what they are getting into with crates, but I tire of people telling other people how or what they should or shouldn't do with their money.

If you want a crown crate item and have the funds to do so, go ahead and buy them. You're supporting the lifespan of the game.

And the melodrama from the anti crate crowd is getting tiring...

Hell yeah. If I want to spend a part of my six-figure salary on loot crates, I damn well will.

The melodramatic part really needs to be saved for those "I can't pay for my kid's breakfast but I have the shadowflame senche" type of people.

vepha · December 2017

I always buy crown items because it is a win win for both me and my fav game team, have to support the game for a better game future. That being said, Radiant Apex is a rip off for sure since the only way to get them is to open crates, I bought way too many and gave up after a while. I wrote support/developers if this is bug. They called it bad luck, RNG, I call it betrayel, rip-off, modern robbery, they may win some extra now but it is a bad move on a long run... They will loose my support like this and I do support a lot and if there are 100 people like me then they will feel the pain very soon ...

Apache_Kid · December 2017

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

See, I fully understand not wanting to buy crates, and I support making people aware with what they are getting into with crates, but I tire of people telling other people how or what they should or shouldn't do with their money.

If you want a crown crate item and have the funds to do so, go ahead and buy them. You're supporting the lifespan of the game.

And the melodrama from the anti crate crowd is getting tiring...

Yeah this is where I'm at. I have alot of gripes with the game but me as one person withholding my money does nothing with so many willing to spend theirs so I might as well spend if there is something I really want. I spend enough of my free-time playing it anyways. I just Wish it felt like more of what I spent was being re-invested into the game.

Banana · December 2017

LadyAstrum · December 2017

Many people have addictive personalities - it could be argued we all do for playing an mmo - but there is something silly about spending thousands on virtual boxes for a chance to get a nice pixel horsie. Grow up.

Ohtimbar · January 2018

My money, my choice. Get over it. I don't berate people for not buying them. Gaming itself is a waste of time and money depending on how you look at it. Paying $60 to play with virtual characters in a virtual world? Insanity! Or not. It's up to the individual to decide.

SydneyGrey · January 2018

Oh holy crap.
Most people who buy the crates just buy a certain amount of them and then stop. They don't have "zero self control." If there are people with no self control who keep on buying the same crates over and over, they're in the minority.

How many of these threads are we going to have to see?

duendology · January 2018

Regardless whether it is gambling or not (it seems people can't even agree on the definition of gambling here) it's all about cosmetics in ESO, so I don't care and neither should you.

It WILL become a problem when ZeniMax introduces items in crown crates that make a character more powerful or alike... I don't know.. like weapon or jewelry that are insanely buffing and obtainable from crown crates. Then you can come here and protest.

Other than that, stop playing NUNNIES to other players. We HAVE to assume adult people play this game and know what they do..even if it means wasting money on digital goodies you can't smell, touch, or place above the fireplace...

Is crown crate business fair? Probably not, since Zenimax does not, and will not, put a disclaimer that the chance to obtain what a player wants (and different players want different things, not necessarily apex rewards, mind you) is relatively small..

But is Zenimax responsible for a hypothetical addictive personality getting addicted to buying crown cates? No.

I can understand a totally new person who has never ever read these forums and hasn't done researched some info on what crown crates really are , coming here and whining about how they feel cheated...it's fair..and I feel for such a person....

BUT if someone keeps buying these crates, fully aware of the tiny chance of getting what they want, and then gets frustrated and all whiny about it (and somewhere between the lines admitting s/he's got somewhat an addictive personality)...then, well, umm no... no...no...

VaranisArano · January 2018

Personally, I'm a leech who only ever got Crown Crates through the "kill a mob" events and then used the crown gems I got through that to get all 3 of the Imperial Costumes I wanted + a few extra minor rewards I'll probably never use from the free boxes.

Honestly, ZOS, you'd get more money from me if this stuff was available in the Crown Store.

resdayn00 · January 2018

1. Crown Crates contain cosmetics which will not affect your performance in-game. Even the consumables can be extremely easily substituted with standard items.
2. Crown Crates are not gambling per definition. The thing is, you are guaranteed at least 3 consumables and one at least blue quality card. When you pay for a Crown Crate, you essentially pay for the guaranteed minimum with a chance of getting something better (which in most cases will occur). If you had a chance of opening a crate and getting NOTHING, yeah, that would be gambling.
3. People who call their bad luck a "betrayal" or a "rip-off" simply don't understand the system. You are never guaranteed to get an Apex mount from 30 crates or a Radiant Apex from 100. You aren't guaranteed anything above the minimum I stated previously.
4. Having an addictive personality is not a company's or anyone else's fault.

Seriously, just get over it. I get it, you spent tons of money on Crown Crates and you didn't get the collectible you wanted. Poor you. You can be mad, but not understanding the system and therefore blaming your bad luck on others is simply not okay. Whining about it won't change a thing and will just clog up the forums with unnecessary rants. The game is rated PEGI 18, you should be above being a toxic member of the community and you are expected to understand the system you are participating in.

monktoasty · January 2018

I think you are toxic if you think crates are fine

Bloodystab · January 2018

I still dont get how You can pay 60$ for a Morrowind where a lot of people worked, Voice Actors, 3d Artists, Concept Artist, Sound designers, programmers, writers, testers etc... Tons of new assets, new class with skills, new mechanics and enemy types, battlegrounds, Motifs, cosmetics.

On the other hand You can spend around 60$ and get ~7000 crowns that can be converted to a Mount & 1-2 costumes. That is created by max 5 people in 2 days. How it is valued?

Im sure a lot of this stuff probably was created someday but decided to cutout from game and just place it into Crown Store but still i just don't understand how this greediness survived so long in game industry. And it's dosnt look like is getting away any time soon.

VaranisArano · January 2018

Bloodystab wrote: »

I still dont get how You can pay 60$ for a Morrowind where a lot of people worked, Voice Actors, 3d Artists, Concept Artist, Sound designers, programmers, writers, testers etc... Tons of new assets, new class with skills, new mechanics and enemy types, battlegrounds, Motifs, cosmetics.

On the other hand You can spend around 60$ and get ~7000 crowns that can be converted to a Mount & 1-2 costumes. That is created by max 5 people in 2 days. How it is valued?

Im sure a lot of this stuff probably was created someday but decided to cutout from game and just place it into Crown Store but still i just don't understand how this greediness survived so long in game industry. And it's dosnt look like is getting away any time soon.

Greediness survives this long because its profitable. Look at the math you pointed out. What's more profitable for the time spent making it: Morrowind or Crown Store cosmetics?

Is it greedy to take items that probably should have been part of the base game or an update or a DLC for ESO+ subscribers and charge money or crowns for it or lock them behind Crown Crate gambling? Sure! But is it profitable? You betcha.

Rebirthment · January 2018

I would like it if radiant rewards could be bought with crown gems, rather than relying on pure luck to get them.

Bloodystab · January 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Greediness survives this long because its profitable. Look at the math you pointed out. What's more profitable for the time spent making it: Morrowind or Crown Store cosmetics?

Is it greedy to take items that probably should have been part of the base game or an update or a DLC for ESO+ subscribers and charge money or crowns for it or lock them behind Crown Crate gambling? Sure! But is it profitable? You betcha.

I fully understand this from a Devs point of view, i don't understand this from players point of view. We just dig our own grave.

I can agree with cash shop in games only if there is a way to earn currency also in game. So then its simple, You pay with Time or with money. Win-Win situation. But probably my thinking is wrong and some guy in black suit with Excel tables and charts know's better.

VaranisArano · January 2018

Bloodystab wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Greediness survives this long because its profitable. Look at the math you pointed out. What's more profitable for the time spent making it: Morrowind or Crown Store cosmetics?

Is it greedy to take items that probably should have been part of the base game or an update or a DLC for ESO+ subscribers and charge money or crowns for it or lock them behind Crown Crate gambling? Sure! But is it profitable? You betcha.

I fully understand this from a Devs point of view, i don't understand this from players point of view. We just dig our own grave.

I can agree with cash shop in games only if there is a way to earn currency also in game. So then its simple, You pay with Time or with money. Win-Win situation. But probably my thinking is wrong and some guy in black suit with Excel tables and charts know's better.

It survives from a player perspective because we want the cosmetics and have no other option to get them than what the designers offer. We can complain, but in the end, enough people buy them to make it worthwhile.

Its little things like the Midshriven skin and horse I bought for my Imperial character who I roleplay as having been a senior imperial agent who got caught in the invasion of the Imperial City and corrupted by Molag Bal. Was that something I needed for the character? No, of course not. My imagination is just fine. But was it something I was willing to spend a little petty cash on to get in order to make my character look cool and fit the vision I had for her? Yeah, i was willing to do that.

So everyone has the ability to spend their own money how they see fit and to decide if the general greed of Crown Crates or overpriced mounts or what have you is enough to make them not buy whatever they want.

ArcaneBlue · January 2018

firstly, I only open free crates and I do not plan to buy any scamcrates.

in some countries, such as Japan, game devs have to OFFICIALLY disclose the actual odds of "gacha"_ aka in game RNG drops you buy with real money. wish that was the case with crown crates (I am aware there is an addon for collecting crown crates drop rates but it'd be nice if it was actually be made visible by the devs somewhere on the offish website), and just do away with radiant apex drops altogether and make it so you can convert any consumables AND collectibles (even non-dupes) you don't want into gems, or up the conversion rates, that may alleviate the crown crate issues a little bit although I still won't buy any myself.

better yet, just put everything straight on the crown store for direct purchase with crowns... hey, I can keep on hoping!

toxicpanda · January 2018

I agree with this. Radiant Apex Mounts should have been purchasable for gems, even if it had been a higher amount like 800-1000+ gems. At least it would be obtainable. I have terrible RNG when it comes to these crates. At least 60+ crates this season and I didn't get one. I know that I could spend the rest of my crowns and still not get a Radiant mount. That's very disappointing because I like those mounts better than anything I could get out of the actual crates. I also didn't get an apex mount (camel and horse) until 50+ crates in. Have enough gems for the next season or two now so I won't buy crates again for a while.

Datolite · January 2018

Hippie4927 wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

See, I fully understand not wanting to buy crates, and I support making people aware with what they are getting into with crates, but I tire of people telling other people how or what they should or shouldn't do with their money.

If you want a crown crate item and have the funds to do so, go ahead and buy them. You're supporting the lifespan of the game.

And the melodrama from the anti crate crowd is getting tiring...

^^So much this^^

I'm probably much older than most of you and will do what I please with my money! I am not addicted to crown crates but I, occasionally, buy some. The last four I purchased netted me two flame atronach mounts (the senche and the wolf), the white fennic fox, and a pocket mammoth. Not bad for 4 crates. This game is not for children so I don't have a problem with crates as long as they remain vanity items.

Set it on fire for all I care.

It's not about how you spend YOUR money. It's about how your spending affects the rest of US. You are perpetuating a greedy system and giving the devs more reason to adopt gambling as its main source of micro-transactions (if it already isn't).

If you are so old and wise you should be able to at least get that. Also no one cares about your mounts. Showing off your RNG is kind of pathetic.

VaranisArano · January 2018

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

Hippie4927 wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

See, I fully understand not wanting to buy crates, and I support making people aware with what they are getting into with crates, but I tire of people telling other people how or what they should or shouldn't do with their money.

If you want a crown crate item and have the funds to do so, go ahead and buy them. You're supporting the lifespan of the game.

And the melodrama from the anti crate crowd is getting tiring...

^^So much this^^

I'm probably much older than most of you and will do what I please with my money! I am not addicted to crown crates but I, occasionally, buy some. The last four I purchased netted me two flame atronach mounts (the senche and the wolf), the white fennic fox, and a pocket mammoth. Not bad for 4 crates. This game is not for children so I don't have a problem with crates as long as they remain vanity items.

Set it on fire for all I care.

It's not about how you spend YOUR money. It's about how your spending affects the rest of US. You are perpetuating a greedy system and giving the devs more reason to adopt gambling as its main source of micro-transactions (if it already isn't).

If you are so old and wise you should be able to at least get that. Also no one cares about your mounts. Showing off your RNG is kind of pathetic.

"Somebody is spending their money in a way I don't approve of and it has terrible consequences!" - the rallying cry of every boycott since Prohibition.

Datolite · January 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

Hippie4927 wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

See, I fully understand not wanting to buy crates, and I support making people aware with what they are getting into with crates, but I tire of people telling other people how or what they should or shouldn't do with their money.

If you want a crown crate item and have the funds to do so, go ahead and buy them. You're supporting the lifespan of the game.

And the melodrama from the anti crate crowd is getting tiring...

^^So much this^^

I'm probably much older than most of you and will do what I please with my money! I am not addicted to crown crates but I, occasionally, buy some. The last four I purchased netted me two flame atronach mounts (the senche and the wolf), the white fennic fox, and a pocket mammoth. Not bad for 4 crates. This game is not for children so I don't have a problem with crates as long as they remain vanity items.

Set it on fire for all I care.

It's not about how you spend YOUR money. It's about how your spending affects the rest of US. You are perpetuating a greedy system and giving the devs more reason to adopt gambling as its main source of micro-transactions (if it already isn't).

If you are so old and wise you should be able to at least get that. Also no one cares about your mounts. Showing off your RNG is kind of pathetic.

"Somebody is spending their money in a way I don't approve of and it has terrible consequences!" - the rallying cry of every boycott since Prohibition.

In a society where people are suckered out of their hard-earned money by corporations at every turn, in increasingly dishonest ways, it pays to vote with your wallet.

Also are you trying to compare boycotts and prohibition? Do you not know that they are exactly the opposite? One is denial by free will, the other is imposed.

I mean bro. What even are you trying to say?

Horowonnoe · January 2018

If someone wants to spend their cash on crowncrates for a silly mount - why do u care. Cant control everyone.

Pops_ND_Irish · January 2018

My money, my decision !

What are we buying in order to play ?
I get the sub but I can play without it. I would not get the craft bag but could still play.

Isn't there 35 other threads just like this one ?
Beating a dead horse. I guess some like that