moved

Nyladreas · January 2018

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Skill still trumps CP, I see plenty of sub 400cp stormproofs but at 893 myself cant beat it. And thats after a year and half stuck on stage 5 lol

This is true, I've seen people way above 690 CP... (800s+) who couldn't figure out mechanics of a boss in a new dungeon even after an hour and a half, that took me 2 tries to get right. And that was with my help explaining what to do.

Same in PVP.... Thats where I do horribly being the same level as everyone else.

Skill is what matters.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2018

Anyone still chasing cp may not understand the game.

CP was only good in pts beta, although it was very OP it served its purpose. Once released and changed it’s just the VR system disguised as account leveling.

munster1404 · January 2018

Don't understand why players dislike CP. I'm a filthy casual player and CP is a great help to a players like me who can't be bothered about rotations. 0 to current max CP gave me nearly 7K dps boost on a Stam character and 10K boost on Magicka. Soloed my first WB at CP 580.Tbh, I pretty much suck at fast paced games or complex mechanics. Anything that provides a boost even a mere 1% damage increase or mitigation from CP is welcome imo.

Once, I was duoing all of the Alik'r Desert WBs with a CP 260 random after he requested assistance in chat. After defeating all the WBs, he marvelled at my "ability" to deal DPS. I replied that gold gear and CP did the trick, not skills. And I was actually spamming shields/force pulse (zero rotations and no light weaving since I can never figure how to execute it consistently) and the occasional Blockade if I manage to remember to refresh my DoTs.

Apache_Kid · January 2018

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

It's good for the game to me. I need to feel like I'm getting stronger and that content I'm familiar with takes less and less time to run. I already have near BiS gear and am nearing my personal limits on my rotations so players like me desperately need this CP for us to be able to complete the most difficult content and acheivments. People that are against this are masochists in my opinion. More CP means more DPS which means content goes by more quickly which means more runs of said content which means more drops. This is good for us.

That’s why you want to get more cp? Just to get more drops? You shouldn’t be able to move through new content that quickly. If anything, they need to vastly increase the difficulty of the game. More difficulty means the more players have to work to accommodate and, inevitably, become more skillful. I think skill is what truly plateaus. Even the new trials were fairly easy to get through, including the hm’s.

More difficult content will meaningfully give players something to strive for. The sense of accomplishment (and loot). As it is, the game is just farmed at this point. Everyone can get all the gear they need, and to do a minimal amount of work to get it. Other than just time-wasting easy farming runs to get....yes....”drops.”

I want easy farming runs to better prepare me for the more difficult content. Don't even tell me this game is too easy. Go look at some of the acheivments for the dungeons like Falkreath Hold and Bloodroot Forge. Go look at how difficult something like vHoF or vAS is. The vast majority the player base will never be able to even beat this content let alone do the difficult acheivments associated with those modes. If anything the game needs a difficulty decrease. If anything we need the Morrowind sustain changes reverted. I want more CP to make the content I've already done 1000 times go faster so I spend less time doing farming runs and more time progressing in end-game content and more time playing PvP, things I actually enjoy.

this situation exists because there was no progression in eso. you walk through 95% of the content then hit Vtrials and it requires skill cordination and communication. if the rest of the content was drool on your keyboard while eating handfuls of valium to actual MMO content. thats a design problem not a issue of 5 % of the content is too hard its a problem of design. its why their is not one launch guild still playing this game

It's not just vet trials though. Myself and a couple friends are still working on progressing through acheivments for vRoM and vCoS and it's very difficult. Then we still have Falkreath and Bloodroot to work though the vet challenges as we have only done them on vet non hard mode with two more dungeons with more very difficult acheivments on the way. Maybe you're just an extremely well-skilled player and have done all of this stuff but for many of us, that 5% of content is so freaking difficult that we are falling behind with how much of it there is. I completely disagree that the game is too easy. So many end-game acheivments are permanently out of reach for majority of the player-base. If you want no more CP then there needs to be a new system for players like me to get a small power boost every few months.

Rohaus · January 2018

Something needs to be done about CP because it has had negative effects on No CP. Any set that has received nerfs has been due in large part to CP which has a tendency of making sets too strong. Take for example Legion... that set without CP isn’t nearly as strong without CP. Yet, because of CP and so many folks running it with CP, people are calling for nerfs of that set.

I for one am quite happy that ZOS is reverting the change with Battlegrounds and CP. However, honestly, does ZOS really want to balance CP and no CP?

lao · January 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

People at end-game are already way beyond 690/720 CP. Quarterly increases in the max number of CP points you can spend may just further widen the power gap between end-game players and people trying to get to the end-game (the existing mechanism for making lower level CPs quicker to gain does not necessarily adequately compensate). The increases may also just further increase power creep. On the other hand, failing to increase the CP cap may cause end-game players to feel as though they are never progressing, because they aren't. What do you think?

just give ppl max CP when entering a PvP area. brings balance to the area that matters and roleplayer nerds can still grind for progression. then it doesnt matter if they increase the cap quarterly. everyone is happy.

pod88kk · January 2018

I think it's good, helps people get that little bit more damage/resources to finish the content they could do while at lower CP eg maelstrom

Ragnarock41 · January 2018

Catering to casuals and carebears will one day destroy this game. Its inevitable.
Enjoy your 30 points of ''progress'' each patch , for now.

Ragnarock41 · January 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

Isn't this a problem of every MMO?

If you don't have stuff like CPs and Passives you have Gear Progression...

Just be glad you dont have to spend bilions of gold to increase your power to next level with a high chance of losing your gear in the process of improving...

Like some korean MMOs...

and thats pretty much the only reason I play this game over BDO right now.
Remove that and.... well, eso becomes a bit pointless.

flguy147ub17_ESO · January 2018

I would think for a brand new player seeing 690 CP has to be a nighmare. You finally get to 50 and are like yes i finally get CP and then go to CP 160 and finally can get gear but then are like wtf i gotta go to CP690 especially once it starts slowing down.

The problem with a BRAND NEW player is, they most likely will go through all the content and quest, do all the crafting, explore some, etc. When you actually play through the content like that and the way the developers designed the game and not grind, then getting to CP690 from the scratch on your first character now i think would be a nightmare and take an insane amount of time and really just seem overwhelming for a brand new player to the game which may scare them away. That is just my 2 cents on it.

olsborg · January 2018

I dont think they widen the gap too much. Most ppl in pvp specially are already at or well above the cap.

Another thing tho...is that the entire cp system still needs an overhaul to better the balance and make more interesting choices.

Ilithyania · January 2018

Maybe Its time for the option to buy a lvl up char (WOW and SWOTR has it)

iNSiPiD1 · January 2018

Alternate Advancement in EverQuest became a legitimate end-game progression system. It's sort of like the CP system we have, except it was MUCH more interesting to invest in, and it took a LOT of time to earn points.

The problem we've got now is hundreds of CPs are going to be hard to scale with anything. They'd be wise to invent a completely new system, scale the points down (i.e. 690 current CP points = 100 new points), and give the players something they care about other than pure percentage based stat increases.

If you want to look at how EQ handled it here's how many choices there were for the Warrior class:
everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/EQ:Warrior_AA

There weren't this many when the system first came out, but each expansion they expanded on it and kept adding to it. It definitely creates some separation between hardcore end-game raiders, and the regular player, but if we aren't rewarding people for playing the game long-term and on a constant basis...then what's to keep these players around?

Tasear · January 2018

Definitely would get bored with artificial power increase. It's rough once you make it to cap you never seem to fall below. I remember one glorious 6 week double XP Halloween I got there and now I am 871. Could stop playing for a year and still be there.

Hiero_Glyph · January 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Catering to casuals and carebears will one day destroy this game. Its inevitable.
Enjoy your 30 points of ''progress'' each patch , for now.

You have it 100% backwards. You do realize that the casuals and care bears are the ones funding the game right? If ZOS doesn't take time to keep them active then the game will certainly be destroyed as ZOS won't be able to continue supporting the game.

But keep telling yourself that you are making the game a better place while they are hurting it.

iNSiPiD1 · January 2018

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Catering to casuals and carebears will one day destroy this game. Its inevitable.
Enjoy your 30 points of ''progress'' each patch , for now.

You have it 100% backwards. You do realize that the casuals and care bears are the ones funding the game right? If ZOS doesn't take time to keep them active then the game will certainly be destroyed as ZOS won't be able to continue supporting the game.

But keep telling yourself that you are making the game a better place while they are hurting it.

This isn't entirely true. The churn of casual players is much higher than those who want to play long-term (the more dedicated, "hardcore" players). We also don't have statistics on where the money is coming from, so your "argument" is just a guess at best.

The bottom line is ZOS needs to keep BOTH populations happy, and right now they are only catering to casuals, which is a bit of a problem.

DoctorESO · January 2018

.

flguy147ub17_ESO · January 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Catering to casuals and carebears will one day destroy this game. Its inevitable.
Enjoy your 30 points of ''progress'' each patch , for now.

You have it 100% backwards. You do realize that the casuals and care bears are the ones funding the game right? If ZOS doesn't take time to keep them active then the game will certainly be destroyed as ZOS won't be able to continue supporting the game.

But keep telling yourself that you are making the game a better place while they are hurting it.

Who is considered a "care bear"? Also, what is considered casual? I hear 1-2 hours a day, but that amounts to 7-14 hours per week, which is almost like a part-time job.

Agreed. Yeah the whole casual thing is so subjective. To me if you log on every single day even if its just an hour or 2 and play a video game then you arent really a casual to me, you may not be hardcore but everyday doing a hobby isnt casual. To me a casual is somebody who logs in when they find free time which maybe 1-2 nights a week, but casual doesnt mean a bad player at all. They just may not have the time or gaming just is way down on their life priority list. This is kinda me now. Its why i never do trials cause i will never schedule my gaming time or signup for trials, when i get free time i game. And honestly just dont want to jump in a random pug trial. That doesnt make me a bad player, its just gaming is so far down my life priority list nowadays.

Wifeaggro13 · January 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

It's good for the game to me. I need to feel like I'm getting stronger and that content I'm familiar with takes less and less time to run. I already have near BiS gear and am nearing my personal limits on my rotations so players like me desperately need this CP for us to be able to complete the most difficult content and acheivments. People that are against this are masochists in my opinion. More CP means more DPS which means content goes by more quickly which means more runs of said content which means more drops. This is good for us.

That’s why you want to get more cp? Just to get more drops? You shouldn’t be able to move through new content that quickly. If anything, they need to vastly increase the difficulty of the game. More difficulty means the more players have to work to accommodate and, inevitably, become more skillful. I think skill is what truly plateaus. Even the new trials were fairly easy to get through, including the hm’s.

More difficult content will meaningfully give players something to strive for. The sense of accomplishment (and loot). As it is, the game is just farmed at this point. Everyone can get all the gear they need, and to do a minimal amount of work to get it. Other than just time-wasting easy farming runs to get....yes....”drops.”

I want easy farming runs to better prepare me for the more difficult content. Don't even tell me this game is too easy. Go look at some of the acheivments for the dungeons like Falkreath Hold and Bloodroot Forge. Go look at how difficult something like vHoF or vAS is. The vast majority the player base will never be able to even beat this content let alone do the difficult acheivments associated with those modes. If anything the game needs a difficulty decrease. If anything we need the Morrowind sustain changes reverted. I want more CP to make the content I've already done 1000 times go faster so I spend less time doing farming runs and more time progressing in end-game content and more time playing PvP, things I actually enjoy.

this situation exists because there was no progression in eso. you walk through 95% of the content then hit Vtrials and it requires skill cordination and communication. if the rest of the content was drool on your keyboard while eating handfuls of valium to actual MMO content. thats a design problem not a issue of 5 % of the content is too hard its a problem of design. its why their is not one launch guild still playing this game

It's not just vet trials though. Myself and a couple friends are still working on progressing through acheivments for vRoM and vCoS and it's very difficult. Then we still have Falkreath and Bloodroot to work though the vet challenges as we have only done them on vet non hard mode with two more dungeons with more very difficult acheivments on the way. Maybe you're just an extremely well-skilled player and have done all of this stuff but for many of us, that 5% of content is so freaking difficult that we are falling behind with how much of it there is. I completely disagree that the game is too easy. So many end-game acheivments are permanently out of reach for majority of the player-base. If you want no more CP then there needs to be a new system for players like me to get a small power boost every few months.

they need to layer the system. passive power creeps are lame , and your problem with VROM and VCOS achievments is not to hard, its gear and build. if you know the mechanics and your doing them correctly its likely coming down to lack of DPS or healing. the two new dungeons are just like all the rest keep plugging away until you get them . once you have a competion or two it becomes farmable. the problem with ZOS is everything comes down to meta DPS builds at the end of the day so if your not running the gear rotation and build then your underperforming for the one trick pony that is zos content

munster1404 · January 2018

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Catering to casuals and carebears will one day destroy this game. Its inevitable.
Enjoy your 30 points of ''progress'' each patch , for now.

You have it 100% backwards. You do realize that the casuals and care bears are the ones funding the game right? If ZOS doesn't take time to keep them active then the game will certainly be destroyed as ZOS won't be able to continue supporting the game.

But keep telling yourself that you are making the game a better place while they are hurting it.

Who is considered a "care bear"? Also, what is considered casual? I hear 1-2 hours a day, but that amounts to 7-14 hours per week, which is almost like a part-time job.

Agreed. Yeah the whole casual thing is so subjective. To me if you log on every single day even if its just an hour or 2 and play a video game then you arent really a casual to me, you may not be hardcore but everyday doing a hobby isnt casual. To me a casual is somebody who logs in when they find free time which maybe 1-2 nights a week, but casual doesnt mean a bad player at all. They just may not have the time or gaming just is way down on their life priority list. This is kinda me now. Its why i never do trials cause i will never schedule my gaming time or signup for trials, when i get free time i game. And honestly just dont want to jump in a random pug trial. That doesnt make me a bad player, its just gaming is so far down my life priority list nowadays.

I think “casual” refers to attitude more than hours spent playing. I work in shifts meaning I have on average 2 weeks off per month. I spent most of my off days playing games sometimes up to 15 hours per session. Yet I consider myself a casual gamer. Max CP currently but only able to manage 12K DPS on a stam build and 16K on Magicka. I can’t be bothered about stuff like rotations, light weaving etc.

Tbh, I have only done 2 veteran dungeons and a normal one. Zero trials, VDsa and VMa. The so called “easy overland content” that many players want buffed? Well, the current level is good enough for me, I deal big damage numbers to weak overland enemies, see them blow up instead of my character dying, I’m happy and feel good about myself.

Imo, gaming is a form of escapism, challenging content negates everything I look for in gaming so I try to avoid them whenever I can.

Apache_Kid · January 2018

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

It's good for the game to me. I need to feel like I'm getting stronger and that content I'm familiar with takes less and less time to run. I already have near BiS gear and am nearing my personal limits on my rotations so players like me desperately need this CP for us to be able to complete the most difficult content and acheivments. People that are against this are masochists in my opinion. More CP means more DPS which means content goes by more quickly which means more runs of said content which means more drops. This is good for us.

That’s why you want to get more cp? Just to get more drops? You shouldn’t be able to move through new content that quickly. If anything, they need to vastly increase the difficulty of the game. More difficulty means the more players have to work to accommodate and, inevitably, become more skillful. I think skill is what truly plateaus. Even the new trials were fairly easy to get through, including the hm’s.

More difficult content will meaningfully give players something to strive for. The sense of accomplishment (and loot). As it is, the game is just farmed at this point. Everyone can get all the gear they need, and to do a minimal amount of work to get it. Other than just time-wasting easy farming runs to get....yes....”drops.”

I want easy farming runs to better prepare me for the more difficult content. Don't even tell me this game is too easy. Go look at some of the acheivments for the dungeons like Falkreath Hold and Bloodroot Forge. Go look at how difficult something like vHoF or vAS is. The vast majority the player base will never be able to even beat this content let alone do the difficult acheivments associated with those modes. If anything the game needs a difficulty decrease. If anything we need the Morrowind sustain changes reverted. I want more CP to make the content I've already done 1000 times go faster so I spend less time doing farming runs and more time progressing in end-game content and more time playing PvP, things I actually enjoy.

this situation exists because there was no progression in eso. you walk through 95% of the content then hit Vtrials and it requires skill cordination and communication. if the rest of the content was drool on your keyboard while eating handfuls of valium to actual MMO content. thats a design problem not a issue of 5 % of the content is too hard its a problem of design. its why their is not one launch guild still playing this game

It's not just vet trials though. Myself and a couple friends are still working on progressing through acheivments for vRoM and vCoS and it's very difficult. Then we still have Falkreath and Bloodroot to work though the vet challenges as we have only done them on vet non hard mode with two more dungeons with more very difficult acheivments on the way. Maybe you're just an extremely well-skilled player and have done all of this stuff but for many of us, that 5% of content is so freaking difficult that we are falling behind with how much of it there is. I completely disagree that the game is too easy. So many end-game acheivments are permanently out of reach for majority of the player-base. If you want no more CP then there needs to be a new system for players like me to get a small power boost every few months.

they need to layer the system. passive power creeps are lame , and your problem with VROM and VCOS achievments is not to hard, its gear and build. if you know the mechanics and your doing them correctly its likely coming down to lack of DPS or healing. the two new dungeons are just like all the rest keep plugging away until you get them . once you have a competion or two it becomes farmable. the problem with ZOS is everything comes down to meta DPS builds at the end of the day so if your not running the gear rotation and build then your underperforming for the one trick pony that is zos content

It's not gear I can promise you that lmao. They are difficult but we are slowly making progress but once we do that there is constantly more that is even more difficult. But how many people even have these acheivments like no-death and Speed-runs for the dlc dungeons? I bet it's not that many. I can't give you numbers on those but I can tell you that on Xbox, only .05% of players have even beat both Veteran Bloodroot and Veteran Falkreath. Even taking into account all the people that started an account and no longer play that's a very small amount. So if that is .05% what are the numbers for the speed runs and the no death runs? .02%? .01%? Lower? Seems to me that some of this stuff is too difficult.

AlienatedGoat · January 2018

Ilithyania wrote: »

Maybe Its time for the option to buy a lvl up char (WOW and SWOTR has it)

So we can get even more clueless CP players queuing into vet dungeons?

No thanks.

If someone wants CP, they can play the game. They'll get valuable (and necessary) game knowledge along the way.

lao · January 2018

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Catering to casuals and carebears will one day destroy this game. Its inevitable.
Enjoy your 30 points of ''progress'' each patch , for now.

You have it 100% backwards. You do realize that the casuals and care bears are the ones funding the game right? If ZOS doesn't take time to keep them active then the game will certainly be destroyed as ZOS won't be able to continue supporting the game.

But keep telling yourself that you are making the game a better place while they are hurting it.

ive heard this BS sooo many times in sooo many games. it was wrong back then and it is wrong now and it will be wrong in the future. casuals are a literal waste of server load. nothing else. it doesnt matter the slightest bit if they are happy or not as they will hop to the next big mmo the very day it launches. no matter what happens in this game.

the hardcore players, especially pvpers are who matters as they picked this game for a reason and they will stick with it over years, even decades if ZOS doesnt continuously keep showing them the finger. look at games like UO, DAoC, EvE etc. games that have been running for 20 years now because they have a loyal hardcore fanbase. those are the players that matter. casuals are completely and entirely irrelevant as they will be playing the 26th expansion of WoW or guild wars 18 or whatever other *** game is the state of the art in 20 years.

mmo´s are not for casual players. they never were so for gods sake stop trying to please a crowd no1 cares about and focus on the ppl that made the old MMO´s everlasting products. how is that so god damn hard to comprehend?

Cold91 · January 2018

wasn't there maths somewhere, when cp was first introduced, showing that a v16 was equivalent to a cp 900 or something. So we were all nerfed so hard that we have yet to catch up to where we were 2 years ago

idk · January 2018

Considering the small number of players who have cleared vAS +2 it does not seem to be much of an issue.

AbysmalGhul · January 2018

Skill and knowledge of the game is what really matters. If you use CP as defining mark for skill and ability gap, you are sorely mistaken.

Linaleah · January 2018

if they MUST have cp increases, I wish they would limit them to no more then once a year, with a chapter release. as it is, power creep in this game is ridiculous, creating ever increasingly larger performance gap between players of various skill and in game advancement. its the reason why simultaneously the content is too easy and too hard, depend in on content and whom you ask. and the ever increasing cp cap will only continue to disbalance the game further.

Mojmir · January 2018

Everytime cp is increased we move one step forward two steps back.

Runefang · January 2018

lao wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Catering to casuals and carebears will one day destroy this game. Its inevitable.
Enjoy your 30 points of ''progress'' each patch , for now.

You have it 100% backwards. You do realize that the casuals and care bears are the ones funding the game right? If ZOS doesn't take time to keep them active then the game will certainly be destroyed as ZOS won't be able to continue supporting the game.

But keep telling yourself that you are making the game a better place while they are hurting it.

ive heard this BS sooo many times in sooo many games. it was wrong back then and it is wrong now and it will be wrong in the future. casuals are a literal waste of server load. nothing else. it doesnt matter the slightest bit if they are happy or not as they will hop to the next big mmo the very day it launches. no matter what happens in this game.

the hardcore players, especially pvpers are who matters as they picked this game for a reason and they will stick with it over years, even decades if ZOS doesnt continuously keep showing them the finger. look at games like UO, DAoC, EvE etc. games that have been running for 20 years now because they have a loyal hardcore fanbase. those are the players that matter. casuals are completely and entirely irrelevant as they will be playing the 26th expansion of WoW or guild wars 18 or whatever other *** game is the state of the art in 20 years.

mmo´s are not for casual players. they never were so for gods sake stop trying to please a crowd no1 cares about and focus on the ppl that made the old MMO´s everlasting products. how is that so god damn hard to comprehend?

Pretty sure that's not true.

Every MMO that is F2P and does regular content releases experiences a big uptake in player numbers at the release of said new content. Whether that is people subscribing again, or buying the content again directly, it doesn't matter as its a big injection of cash into the game. These players are the bread and butter of the F2P model, they are the ones specifically targeted by many many MMOs.

Hardcore players who hang around are great, but they're in the icing on the cake. I think only WoW targets these players, its the only real end-game progression MMO around. After all how many other MMOs produce new large group content at the rate they do?

DoctorESO · January 2018

.