Sorcerer PVP

Jsmalls · January 2018

As a MagSorc main for the life of this game on console, it has officially gotten to the point where I can't kill competent players due to lack of burst (damage), or burst being too telegraphed, for solo play. This is with 50k magicka and 3k spell damage, and the extra spinners penetration.

Maybe I'm bad at the game now, maybe I was too used to having an "OP" Sorc, maybe the game has moved away from my playstyle, maybe a combination of all that.

Or maybe we got nerfed a little too hard.

Positive note: They also can't kill me. At least not for 5 minutes until I get bored, or stop managing my resources and just try full offensive.

NinchiTV · January 2018

The sorc is still very powerful for those with a lot of experience. Everything is timing and burst, you cant just use a spam able like dizzing swing or surprise attack or jabs or birds or frags to kill something. So in my 176 days played I can assure you can still 1vx with the proper sets and timing everything down by the second.

RighteousBacon · January 2018

TheHsN wrote: »

JubJub wrote: »

Roll a stam nb like everyone else.

i hate that class:):):)

Join the club

Morvane · January 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

"Spammable DPS"
What a SAD state/mindset the general MMO player base has become. WTB EverQuest playerbase back.

You can get a spammable Magicka DPS skill, but people resent having a destruction staff nailed into their hands to get it.

I don't have a problem with it. But other People want to shoot spammable spells out of a sword or a two handed axe. They could in the last patch with trapping webs, but now that's gone (and nobody uses it anywhere, good job @Wrobel)

People want diversity in the look and feel of the class.

nightblade can shot spammable knife while wear healing staff, I cant. Why?

ak_pvp · January 2018

Jsmalls wrote: »

As a MagSorc main for the life of this game on console, it has officially gotten to the point where I can't kill competent players due to lack of burst (damage), or burst being too telegraphed, for solo play. This is with 50k magicka and 3k spell damage, and the extra spinners penetration.

Maybe I'm bad at the game now, maybe I was too used to having an "OP" Sorc, maybe the game has moved away from my playstyle, maybe a combination of all that.

Or maybe we got nerfed a little too hard.

Positive note: They also can't kill me. At least not for 5 minutes until I get bored, or stop managing my resources and just try full offensive.

Welcome to being a competent player.

The only way to win is if they make some mistake out of tiredness. 1vXing is all potato mashing.

ak_pvp · January 2018

Irylia wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

What am I reading... ?

Try playing a magicka dragonknight or a stamina templar, or ***, a werewolf build, then come back to me about how hard you guys have it.

Stam templar is top of the food chain with stamden stamblade

“Sorc gets a few nerfs”
Over the past year and a half that I’ve played sorc
I’ve seen
-Dw nerf for mag
-inev det nerf
-thaum nerf (doesn’t apply to curse)
-Db nerf for mag
-Shields to 6 seconds
-Cost reduction and mag recovery cp nerf (arguably effects the magsorc the most because they are the only class that has to maintain a defensive ability every 2-4 seconds.
-overload nerf
-streak nerf (doesn’t stun through block)
-streak delay (on both front and back end)
-mines 5.5k cost
-Dark deal increased cast time
-frag stun removed
-frag dmg reduced twice
-surge heal nerf

All the oblivion damage sets created

All they give us is a “buff”
Curse has haunting (a pve use to reduce cast time and enable other skills to be used)

Rune is now our stun through block
And we can choose clench or that because our identity was stripped and replaced with a Dora the explorer rune Bandaid.

Pets hp and resistances have been adjusted so they don’t die in one hit.

Nice we sure give a lot and gain even more in return.

The few things we have been allowed were sets such as pirate skel pre nerf, resto ult (available to everyone), and inferno destro dmg increase.

Get out. You know nothing of balance or what you are spewing.

Some of the nerfs were justifiable but now it’s just been stripping of the class because they don’t know how to fix the issue of wards.

All you have to do is make harness and hard a major ward and healing minor
Can’t stack major.
Not that it prevents you from cc one shotting 90% of the sorcs in cyro because they are all terrible.

Who do I call to focus when I’m small scaling?
Get the sorcs
They crumple under pressure

I have 160 days+ on mag sorc and I swap to Stam after hotr with under 20 collective days on all Stam blade stamdk stamden and I’m performing even better than I could on sorc.

To add icing on the cake
Bone shield is now 100% of your hp
25-30k hp = 12-15k ward in pvp without any bastion.
I have 40k mag 19% bastion and hard ward which increases its size on myself and I still only reach 11k

Great. Solid. Nice.

Now sit back down.

Hey, congrats you are a good sorc, I have seen some of your vids. And I agree that a lot of the original sorc has been hit, generally because of ZOS's inability to fix shields and instead just throw some nerfs, but holy *** these are some asspull "nerfs." Saying that sorc has been nerfed to death isn't even close. Sure, they took a bit more than they got back, but so has every class.

“Sorc gets a few nerfs”
Over the past year and a half that I’ve played sorc
I’ve seen
-Dw nerf for mag
-inev det nerf
-thaum nerf (doesn’t apply to curse)
-Db nerf for mag
-Shields to 6 seconds
-Cost reduction and mag recovery cp nerf (arguably effects the magsorc the most because they are the only class that has to maintain a defensive ability every 2-4 seconds.
-overload nerf
-streak nerf (doesn’t stun through block)
-streak delay (on both front and back end)
-mines 5.5k cost
-Dark deal increased cast time
-frag stun removed
-frag dmg reduced twice
-surge heal nerf

DW nerf isn't a nerf to magsorc. Hell, I use DW on my MDK. It was because the damage was higher than the other melee option.

Thaum shouldn't apply to curse, it doesn't apply to other delayed abilities, and the dot reduction CP didn't mitigate it.

Shields to 6 was hardly a nerf, they are taken down within that time.

Cost reduction nerf again, was to everyone. I would say something like a MDK suffered more due to high base cost abilities. But w/e. Its a blanket nerf.

Streak nerf: The first one is definitely a nerf, but it was the strongest stun in days gone by. It was necessary. The physics changes to streak (I assume its what you mean by delay, before you could streak more instantly and conserve momentum) were done to stop it reaching places it shouldn't. No more a nerf than removing gapclosing into keeps.

Dark deals 0.2s increase... It was to make it have the same 0.2s of animation that other cast time abilities had... Fixing bugs that caused extra performance isn't directly a nerf.

Surge heal nerf: I mean, unless you are running a niche duel build with pets etc there is a good chance you aren't critting more that once per sec. It was a nerf to stamsorcs mainly

Pirate skel wasn't designed with shields in mind, if you can just ignore the entire point of the debuff, yeah, its broken.

Bone shield SYNERGY does that, not bone shield itself.

And finally, oblivion damage, this affects everyone. Be it tanks or shield users, the only one that is actually awful is shield breaker, again due to ZOSs inability, only bleed and oblivion go through shields, the grass isn;t greener when you look at something like dodge roll. Also, oblivion has been nerfed so much no one really uses it unless going for full shield killer build.

Morvane · January 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

What am I reading... ?

Try playing a magicka dragonknight or a stamina templar, or ***, a werewolf build, then come back to me about how hard you guys have it.

Stam templar is top of the food chain with stamden stamblade

“Sorc gets a few nerfs”
Over the past year and a half that I’ve played sorc
I’ve seen
-Dw nerf for mag
-inev det nerf
-thaum nerf (doesn’t apply to curse)
-Db nerf for mag
-Shields to 6 seconds
-Cost reduction and mag recovery cp nerf (arguably effects the magsorc the most because they are the only class that has to maintain a defensive ability every 2-4 seconds.
-overload nerf
-streak nerf (doesn’t stun through block)
-streak delay (on both front and back end)
-mines 5.5k cost
-Dark deal increased cast time
-frag stun removed
-frag dmg reduced twice
-surge heal nerf

All the oblivion damage sets created

All they give us is a “buff”
Curse has haunting (a pve use to reduce cast time and enable other skills to be used)

Rune is now our stun through block
And we can choose clench or that because our identity was stripped and replaced with a Dora the explorer rune Bandaid.

Pets hp and resistances have been adjusted so they don’t die in one hit.

Nice we sure give a lot and gain even more in return.

The few things we have been allowed were sets such as pirate skel pre nerf, resto ult (available to everyone), and inferno destro dmg increase.

Get out. You know nothing of balance or what you are spewing.

Some of the nerfs were justifiable but now it’s just been stripping of the class because they don’t know how to fix the issue of wards.

All you have to do is make harness and hard a major ward and healing minor
Can’t stack major.
Not that it prevents you from cc one shotting 90% of the sorcs in cyro because they are all terrible.

Who do I call to focus when I’m small scaling?
Get the sorcs
They crumple under pressure

I have 160 days+ on mag sorc and I swap to Stam after hotr with under 20 collective days on all Stam blade stamdk stamden and I’m performing even better than I could on sorc.

To add icing on the cake
Bone shield is now 100% of your hp
25-30k hp = 12-15k ward in pvp without any bastion.
I have 40k mag 19% bastion and hard ward which increases its size on myself and I still only reach 11k

Great. Solid. Nice.

Now sit back down.

Hey, congrats you are a good sorc, I have seen some of your vids. And I agree that a lot of the original sorc has been hit, generally because of ZOS's inability to fix shields and instead just throw some nerfs, but holy *** these are some asspull "nerfs." Saying that sorc has been nerfed to death isn't even close. Sure, they took a bit more than they got back, but so has every class.

“Sorc gets a few nerfs”
Over the past year and a half that I’ve played sorc
I’ve seen
-Dw nerf for mag
-inev det nerf
-thaum nerf (doesn’t apply to curse)
-Db nerf for mag
-Shields to 6 seconds
-Cost reduction and mag recovery cp nerf (arguably effects the magsorc the most because they are the only class that has to maintain a defensive ability every 2-4 seconds.
-overload nerf
-streak nerf (doesn’t stun through block)
-streak delay (on both front and back end)
-mines 5.5k cost
-Dark deal increased cast time
-frag stun removed
-frag dmg reduced twice
-surge heal nerf

DW nerf isn't a nerf to magsorc. Hell, I use DW on my MDK. It was because the damage was higher than the other melee option.

Thaum shouldn't apply to curse, it doesn't apply to other delayed abilities, and the dot reduction CP didn't mitigate it.

Shields to 6 was hardly a nerf, they are taken down within that time.

Cost reduction nerf again, was to everyone. I would say something like a MDK suffered more due to high base cost abilities. But w/e. Its a blanket nerf.

Streak nerf: The first one is definitely a nerf, but it was the strongest stun in days gone by. It was necessary. The physics changes to streak (I assume its what you mean by delay, before you could streak more instantly and conserve momentum) were done to stop it reaching places it shouldn't. No more a nerf than removing gapclosing into keeps.

Dark deals 0.2s increase... It was to make it have the same 0.2s of animation that other cast time abilities had... Fixing bugs that caused extra performance isn't directly a nerf.

Surge heal nerf: I mean, unless you are running a niche duel build with pets etc there is a good chance you aren't critting more that once per sec. It was a nerf to stamsorcs mainly

Pirate skel wasn't designed with shields in mind, if you can just ignore the entire point of the debuff, yeah, its broken.

Bone shield SYNERGY does that, not bone shield itself.

And finally, oblivion damage, this affects everyone. Be it tanks or shield users, the only one that is actually awful is shield breaker, again due to ZOSs inability, only bleed and oblivion go through shields, the grass isn;t greener when you look at something like dodge roll. Also, oblivion has been nerfed so much no one really uses it unless going for full shield killer build.

may I say some thoughts
as to me the main pain for sorc is absolute absence of spammable:

DW nerf for msorc means convert Trapping Webs to stamina. this killed the only available spammble for sorcerer in mana except destro CS

**ck sustain, **ck buffs and darkdeal. U can buff from pot, entropy or 2h, but u cant gapcloser like NB do (even from restostaff).

I didint talk even about 'top' stamsorcs of today: Dizzy swing, ok. Seems I dont play sorcerer, seems I play Fighters Guild Victor class while I'm stamsorc on pvp

P.S I wanna delete my sorc for a long time
I cant go PvE petsorc in PvP
I cant go cool Pve stamsorc on PvP

but I can do all these things on warden, lol. Gods, I hate capitslism and market (i'm marketer irl)

olsborg · January 2018

Dracane wrote: »

Destruction staff just needs serious buffing

I disagree. Destruction staff is dangerous enough as it is, the passives each destrostaff gives are strong (apart from ice staff)

Dracane wrote: »

Bolt Escape penalty needs to be reduced to 2 seconds from 4 seconds and Sorcerer needs better tools to approach the army of reflective targets

Agreed. Specially useless vs magdk and any wardens with shimmering shields slotted. With how gapclosers are so easily spammable and all the snares, bolt escape is not exactly "an escape" imo.

Dracane wrote: »

To me, magicka Sorcerer is the easiest class to kill in pvp, because they have no ways to avoid damage, they only have a shield (which was nerfed too hard, at least 8 or 10 s base duration would have been enough nerfing) and are forced to take all hits.

Agreed. Shields was nerfed too hard, but before they buff their duration to 8 or 10 seconds, they need to take away shieldstacking. Shieldstacking is still a problem imo.

Biro123 · January 2018

To get rid of shield stacking, the class needs an overhaul -in a number of ways.

I mean, a competent shield user doesn't just stack and laugh... They use a combination of dodging and dmg reduction gear/abilities to protect the shield, and then a bit of survivability to take part-hits so the shield can drop enough to finish your burst.

NB does the former much better than sorc cos cloak and shade (when it works).
Templar/dk/warden does the second better with the ability to both block and heal on a sword n board bar.

If a sorc can no longer stack, they suddenly become worse, defensively than every other mag class who can use a single shield. Sorc will then need to be able to use snb to survive. But that isn't possible on the front bar because there is no spammable. Nor is it possible on the back-bar because there is no block-castable heal..

Complete overhaul...

olsborg · January 2018

I know a fair few sorcs that do pretty well without stacking shields, I cant really comment on what type of gear they use tho. I myself didnt use more then hardened ward (and healing ward when needed) back in the day, altho I havent played my sorc seriously since early 2016. (because I got quite tired of the shieldstacking meta)

Lexxypwns · January 2018

@ak_pvp bleeds do not damage health pools directly when they are covered by a damage shield, if they did any mag spec using a shield would cease to be viable

Leingod · January 2018

Mines should do what Zaan is doing (more dmg if more than 1 gets hit over 1-2sec)

Frost staff buff or skillline

No shieldstacking (20% buff to hardened ward and 8 sec duration)

Bolt escape distance increase or cost increase nerf reverted slightly

Lightning pool auto casts (1 click) under nearest enemy

Mines + Curse + Rune should benefit from Thaum

The reason stam temps have such a good time nowadays is because thaum AND mighty/expert get their main dps skill higher AND light gets the double atk bonus treatment with perfect synergy (like wtf)

PhoenixGrey · January 2018

Dracane wrote: »

Destruction staff just needs serious buffing

Agree with this.
The destro skill line by itself is trash especially for a sorc. Without the master's weapon it does not have a high damage CC. No snare removal as well
Basically the message from ZOS was if you don't have a master's staff you cannot use the destro skill line. If you use pulse and rune cage then you run out of bar space for other essential skills and also give up a whole bunch of damage.

The other option is dual wield with rune cage which atleast will guarantee a good burst

But the point is a weapon is supposed to complement a skill line. Right now it seems like an entire skill line depends on a weapon

lao · January 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Kode wrote: »

I never thought I would see the day that sorcerers shed tears of inequality.

Honestly, if a sorc gets their rotation on most players... they explode. And a sorc one the defensive can be hard to put down.
And that is saying nothing at all of skill... a good sorc melts people and is nearly impossible to burst down, having strong offense, strong defense and good mobility.

Sorcs got a few small nerfs and now are crying, it's amusing at best, disgusting at worse.

So many other playstyles suffer with nerf after nerf or ignoring their problems, almost all sorc skills (besides pets) work as intended, not plagued with bugs and incorrect tooltips.

The only other playstyle that's in a better place across the board is Nightblade and even that's debatable because they still have bugs.

They've never been OP, they've always been pigeon holed, and have only been best at solo PvE.

There's a reason the best players use NBs (stamina usually over mag) Wardens (Stam usually over mag) DKs for small scale (look at pyromancer for your "bad" group play...) Etc

Seriously the worst class, so very limited and boring

uhm well. they have been somewhat OP in the super early days when shields didnt get halfed in pvp and lasted 30 secs. however this only goes for 1v1´s or 1v2´s. apart from that i agree tho. sorcs were never very good to 1vX with (the "stack ult cost reduction and spam vampire ulti for the cost of 4 ulti" days aside)

anyone who ever played a sorc in pvp knows that shields are almost useless when you get hit by multiple players while dodge for example scales very well with multiple ppl hitting you.also all you need to do is snare the sorc and he´s basically toast. hence why everyone that isnt a zergling plays stam builds. also stam builds have much better mobility. mag in general is just way underperforming when not in a zerg compared to stam but thats not a bad thing as we really dont want the zerglings to have strong 1v1/1vX toons aswell even tho they cant play them properly anyway.

i dont agree with mag sorc beeing the worst class tho. magplar is definitaly worse.

Minalan · January 2018

The current meta seems to be an unkillable “cockroach” Sorc build that also can’t get reliable kills without burning an ultimate.

While it’s hilarious to tank and outmaneuver huge ball groups without dying, I’m pretty sure this is badly broken. (Shield stack plus riposte plus lights champion plus immovable pots plus 14K Stamina plus clever use of LOS = Lulz)

Lexxypwns · January 2018

Minalan wrote: »

The current meta seems to be an unkillable “cockroach” Sorc build that also can’t get reliable kills without burning an ultimate.

While it’s hilarious to tank and outmaneuver huge ball groups without dying, I’m pretty sure this is badly broken. (Shield stack plus riposte plus lights champion plus immovable pots plus 14K Stamina plus clever use of LOS = Lulz)

These specs are totally unthreatening to well built players though. Shackle+Riposte is simply such inadequate damage that it’s not even funny. Kinda sad that’s considered the meta, speaks to how bad the class has fallen

Emma_Overload · January 2018

Leingod wrote: »

Mines should do what Zaan is doing (more dmg if more than 1 gets hit over 1-2sec)

Frost staff buff or skillline

No shieldstacking (20% buff to hardened ward and 8 sec duration)

Bolt escape distance increase or cost increase nerf reverted slightly

Lightning pool auto casts (1 click) under nearest enemy

Mines + Curse + Rune should benefit from Thaum

The reason temps have such a good time nowadays is because thaum AND mighty/expert get their main dps skill higher AND light gets the double atk bonus treatment with perfect synergy (like wtf)

I disagree with this SO much! Why would you want to move Curse to Thaumaturge? Then you would have to split your CP between direct damage and dots, making your Frags so much weaker.

Leingod · January 2018

Derp I forgot about the direct damage cp change

My point is these weird cast < wait < proc attacks should benefit from both Thaum and Master at Arms. Screw curse I really want just mines/runes to benefit from it since right now since the cost is so ridiculously high

Malamar1229 · January 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

The current meta seems to be an unkillable “cockroach” Sorc build that also can’t get reliable kills without burning an ultimate.

While it’s hilarious to tank and outmaneuver huge ball groups without dying, I’m pretty sure this is badly broken. (Shield stack plus riposte plus lights champion plus immovable pots plus 14K Stamina plus clever use of LOS = Lulz)

These specs are totally unthreatening to well built players though. Shackle+Riposte is simply such inadequate damage that it’s not even funny. Kinda sad that’s considered the meta, speaks to how bad the class has fallen

I've been running that setup since MW dropped. My flame reach tool tip is 10k for 2k magicka cost. My frags is about a 15-16k tooltip. While neither set is a "dmg set," I can tell you I have done quite well 1vX with it and in duels.

lao · January 2018

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

The current meta seems to be an unkillable “cockroach” Sorc build that also can’t get reliable kills without burning an ultimate.

While it’s hilarious to tank and outmaneuver huge ball groups without dying, I’m pretty sure this is badly broken. (Shield stack plus riposte plus lights champion plus immovable pots plus 14K Stamina plus clever use of LOS = Lulz)

These specs are totally unthreatening to well built players though. Shackle+Riposte is simply such inadequate damage that it’s not even funny. Kinda sad that’s considered the meta, speaks to how bad the class has fallen

I've been running that setup since MW dropped. My flame reach tool tip is 10k for 2k magicka cost. My frags is about a 15-16k tooltip. While neither set is a "dmg set," I can tell you I have done quite well 1vX with it and in duels.

he´s right tho. sure you can farm potatoes all day with shackle+riposte but vs any remotely decent player you wont have enough burst. its nevertheless kinda mandatory to run that setup if you wanna 1vX as you need the minor maim to stay alive (since shields are quite bad when you have multiple ppl hitting you) and you need shackle to have enough stam to be able to keep breaking CC´s and to sprint abiot every now and then.

Lexxypwns · January 2018

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

The current meta seems to be an unkillable “cockroach” Sorc build that also can’t get reliable kills without burning an ultimate.

While it’s hilarious to tank and outmaneuver huge ball groups without dying, I’m pretty sure this is badly broken. (Shield stack plus riposte plus lights champion plus immovable pots plus 14K Stamina plus clever use of LOS = Lulz)

These specs are totally unthreatening to well built players though. Shackle+Riposte is simply such inadequate damage that it’s not even funny. Kinda sad that’s considered the meta, speaks to how bad the class has fallen

I've been running that setup since MW dropped. My flame reach tool tip is 10k for 2k magicka cost. My frags is about a 15-16k tooltip. While neither set is a "dmg set," I can tell you I have done quite well 1vX with it and in duels.

That’s really really unthreatening damage imo, in the sense that it’s virtually impossible to kill people within the time frame your shields are up, opening you up for burst. Threatening damae for a sorc, in my mind, is when you can shield stack and nuke people then get back to your defensive bar before being too vulnerable.

I know it’s playable and works, it’s just sad that the class is in a place where you need a defensive set to make up for the loss of shield size in order to sustain.

Malamar1229 · January 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

The current meta seems to be an unkillable “cockroach” Sorc build that also can’t get reliable kills without burning an ultimate.

While it’s hilarious to tank and outmaneuver huge ball groups without dying, I’m pretty sure this is badly broken. (Shield stack plus riposte plus lights champion plus immovable pots plus 14K Stamina plus clever use of LOS = Lulz)

These specs are totally unthreatening to well built players though. Shackle+Riposte is simply such inadequate damage that it’s not even funny. Kinda sad that’s considered the meta, speaks to how bad the class has fallen

I've been running that setup since MW dropped. My flame reach tool tip is 10k for 2k magicka cost. My frags is about a 15-16k tooltip. While neither set is a "dmg set," I can tell you I have done quite well 1vX with it and in duels.

That’s really really unthreatening damage imo, in the sense that it’s virtually impossible to kill people within the time frame your shields are up, opening you up for burst. Threatening damae for a sorc, in my mind, is when you can shield stack and nuke people then get back to your defensive bar before being too vulnerable.

I know it’s playable and works, it’s just sad that the class is in a place where you need a defensive set to make up for the loss of shield size in order to sustain.

Sads an understatement. PC has it worse in the form of add-ons that act like a direct nerf to sorcs as well (miats).

The burst set up is fairly straight fwd: curse/wrath then a frags after reach. But against a decent Stam player it's almost impossible to land. Dodge Dodge Dodge, on immov pots and the ridiculous Troll King and stamina healing.

Have to optimize dmg with my set up by going Nirn on my masters staff, rotating between shock enchant (for the 8% status effect) and beserker. Can't tell which is better yet. Slotting inner light on destro bar, and sometimes using lights champion offensively. Prior to transmuting to Nirn, I ran an infused staff with prismatic enchant. I had a 9500 tooltip on that enchant lol.

If you can land the reach, usually the dmg is decent to take the majority of players down

Can't do *** against flappy dks though.

I've run lich and dmg set ups before but I can't make it work in 1vX. Everyone praises lich and I get it, but that 5th piece isn't working for you at all until you hit the proc marker. Leaves a bitter taste in my mouth for that reason. I'd rather have a 5th pc that is always working for me. The best part of my set up is I don't have to be perfect on shield application.

Really the bottom line is healing is out of whack in PvP. Major defile or GTFO seems to be it. I know Sorcs have been struggling in our dueling scenes.

Lexxypwns · January 2018

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

The current meta seems to be an unkillable “cockroach” Sorc build that also can’t get reliable kills without burning an ultimate.

While it’s hilarious to tank and outmaneuver huge ball groups without dying, I’m pretty sure this is badly broken. (Shield stack plus riposte plus lights champion plus immovable pots plus 14K Stamina plus clever use of LOS = Lulz)

These specs are totally unthreatening to well built players though. Shackle+Riposte is simply such inadequate damage that it’s not even funny. Kinda sad that’s considered the meta, speaks to how bad the class has fallen

I've been running that setup since MW dropped. My flame reach tool tip is 10k for 2k magicka cost. My frags is about a 15-16k tooltip. While neither set is a "dmg set," I can tell you I have done quite well 1vX with it and in duels.

That’s really really unthreatening damage imo, in the sense that it’s virtually impossible to kill people within the time frame your shields are up, opening you up for burst. Threatening damae for a sorc, in my mind, is when you can shield stack and nuke people then get back to your defensive bar before being too vulnerable.

I know it’s playable and works, it’s just sad that the class is in a place where you need a defensive set to make up for the loss of shield size in order to sustain.

Sads an understatement. PC has it worse in the form of add-ons that act like a direct nerf to sorcs as well (miats).

The burst set up is fairly straight fwd: curse/wrath then a frags after reach. But against a decent Stam player it's almost impossible to land. Dodge Dodge Dodge, on immov pots and the ridiculous Troll King and stamina healing.

Have to optimize dmg with my set up by going Nirn on my masters staff, rotating between shock enchant (for the 8% status effect) and beserker. Can't tell which is better yet. Slotting inner light on destro bar, and sometimes using lights champion offensively. Prior to transmuting to Nirn, I ran an infused staff with prismatic enchant. I had a 9500 tooltip on that enchant lol.

If you can land the reach, usually the dmg is decent to take the majority of players down

Can't do *** against flappy dks though.

I've run lich and dmg set ups before but I can't make it work in 1vX. Everyone praises lich and I get it, but that 5th piece isn't working for you at all until you hit the proc marker. Leaves a bitter taste in my mouth for that reason. I'd rather have a 5th pc that is always working for me. The best part of my set up is I don't have to be perfect on shield application.

Really the bottom line is healing is out of whack in PvP. Major defile or GTFO seems to be it. I know Sorcs have been struggling in our dueling scenes.

The problem is that reach has a really slow travel time and if it’s blocked you won’t be getting kills. It’s even more obnoxious than frags so any potato can just block it while lining up their own burst in a 1v1 scenario. Another down side is the limited amount of the fight that you’re offensive and how vulnerable you are outside your small offensive opportunity. That’s for all sorcs really though.

jnelson1182 · January 2018

dang seems like they hit the sorcerer hard, I'm thinking maybe my DK should be my main but still level and gear out my sorcerer for if they ever bring back some of the things they nerfed them for before I even got to start the game lol.

Joy_Division · January 2018

This is a change. from the nerf sorc threads I haven't seen in a while.

Class is still good at killing potatoes and kill-stealing, but ZoS gutted the class without ever reforming what was the thing most non sorcs hated: shield-stacking.

So now they can still stack shields and be obnoxiously hard to kill in a 1v1, but are reliant on a Master destro just to set up a combo that a NB can do better.

I also hate the fact that their ultimates are so niche: you have a stationary Pet, a fantastic anti-zerg tool, and I'm not sure what Overload is supposed to be, it's dead in PvE and actually harmful to use against potentially 40% of your PvP opponents.

I play templar and sorcerer and between the two of them I use 0 class ultimates. It's terrible.

Lord-Otto · January 2018

Frags deserve the same damage value as the spectral bow.

They need three moves to proc on average, rather than bow's five, okay. But beyond that?
Bow also provides a very useful damage buff. It has a stamina morph, and that even grants minor regeneration. Sorcs can get that buff by sacrificing a third of their main shield, thanks! And bow's magicka morph snares, something completely alien to sorcs. Why can't frags snare?
Oh, and bow travels faster because reasons and is also less predictable.

"Frags were overloaded with effects".
-ZOS

EXCUSE ME???
Like whip, that deals the class'es bonus element? That also increases vamp damage? That sets enemies off-balance for extra damage? Now also stuns? Has less cost to begin with AND reduces cost to ZERO? Is buggedly undodgable, can now be spammed. AND heals for a frikkin' BoL? AND is a true spammable (DW sorcs matter)?

Frags need their damage nerfs reverted. There is no justification to have the multiple damage nerfs stay, on top of the CC removal.

Derra · January 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

To get rid of shield stacking, the class needs an overhaul -in a number of ways.

I mean, a competent shield user doesn't just stack and laugh... They use a combination of dodging and dmg reduction gear/abilities to protect the shield, and then a bit of survivability to take part-hits so the shield can drop enough to finish your burst.

NB does the former much better than sorc cos cloak and shade (when it works).
Templar/dk/warden does the second better with the ability to both block and heal on a sword n board bar.

If a sorc can no longer stack, they suddenly become worse, defensively than every other mag class who can use a single shield. Sorc will then need to be able to use snb to survive. But that isn't possible on the front bar because there is no spammable. Nor is it possible on the back-bar because there is no block-castable heal..

Complete overhaul...

My take on this would be sorc can no longer stack shields (at all - not even healing ward). Bad for other classes.
You can only have dmg shields with a total strength of 120% of you characters hp - this is halved by battlespirit resulting in maximum of 60% hp value in shields.
Bolt escape + morphs forcemiss attacks for the duration of the port (0.5s or sth - not a complete gcd).
Bol escape + morphs penalty reduced to 33% cost increase and 3s duration.
Streak morph suffers no cost increase if you deal dmg with it.

Powersurge now only grants major sorcery and heals for 3s but the heal becomes 15% weaker each second (effect refreshable).
0s (initial hit) 100% heal 2550
1s 85% heal 2170
2s 70% heal 1785
3s 55% heal 1400

Boundless storm removes snares + roots on activation (no immunity time).

Offensively i´d probably just restore fragments to it´s old state.

Neloth · January 2018

There was a good point about sorc ultimates being useless: yes, negate is good, but only in group play, and it 100% should stay. Two others, overload and atro are completely useless, and more important - it's the same both for pvp and pve.

Why we even have atro? I see it used only in duels, but even there ranged opponent can just go walk away from it and wait a bit. If you care so much about ES lore and summoning and all that stuff, just move it to separate world skill line and let role-players RP, but sorc class doesn't need it.

Overload only works as a buff bar out of combat. I can't even count how many times it killed me when I swapped to during in intense combat and got stuck on overload bar. If I start slottng there weapon skill for easy cancel and a shield for some protection, it leaves you with 2-4 additional slots, which can't compete with having, say, resto ultimate slotted back bar instead of it.

Can we have some instant-cast offensive single target ultimate pls? I don't even ask for it being low-cost, defileing and stunning people at once, just give us something like leap dmg and cost-wise, with some unique effect.

With frags dmg reverted back to 25% (and still stun removed) that may fix sorcs for a bit.

edit: some grammar

Derra · January 2018

Attro will be useful with the next patch in pure singletarget fights - slightly outperforming meteor for pve.

Problem is that it´s useless in pvp as it simply dies too easily.

Neloth · January 2018

Derra wrote: »

Attro will be useful with the next patch in pure singletarget fights - slightly outperforming meteor for pve.

praise gods, our class is fine and perfectly balanced now

jk, that's good to know, thx for the info

Derra wrote: »

Problem is that it´s useless in pvp as it simply dies too easily.

I have to disagree here. It dies easily only in 1vsX, but you really can't use it when outnumbered since you'll be kiting 90% of time. Maybe it can use a rework to follow the caster (like engine guardian) and attack nearby enemies.