Are we going to finally get some Race balancing this PTS? Post suggestions

Twohothardware · January 2018

grannas211 wrote: »

Please leave the nerf bat away from Argonians.

#Buffsinsteadofnerfs

Would definitely prefer to see buffs to the other races mentioned because if they just nerf Argonian that's not going to change the balance issues with these other races and Redguard will still be the dominant choice for Stamina and Dark Elf for Magicka.

eserras7b16_ESO · January 2018

Cinbri wrote: »

Since buffs to other races obviously wont happen - argonians with their potion passive must be nerfed.
And people use this stupid logic to not nerf something completely unbalanced coz unbalance make it fun over again are so fun.

You're so funny. If you're going to bring our "sustain" (Because it depends on potion consuming ON CD and doesn't scale with magicka regen and so on...) down to the other races just because it is slightly higher (if it is because i didn't even calculate, not bothering), then bring our damage to the same place ^^! But don't go and say we have higher Healing% and HP% because nobody ever wanted this crap in any sets and/or builds (serious ones) ever since 2014. Everybody knows healers don't need more healing but they benefit more from sustain. And the %HP has always been the worse stat when theorycrafting builds for a reason, not saying is not good to have, but it's just not what players aim for.
I get that the passives are good for some PvP builds, so are other races. It depends on the build.
Or we could just get rid of all the race passives? I would prefer that to going back to where we have been during all these years since the release of the game. On the back, and by far. We had a long fight to bring Argonians at a competitive level. If you feel your race is weaker for any reason, go and try to bring it up, with arguments, make a thread, if you have a point, i'll support you so will most of the other players in the forums.

#stopthenerfhammer
#stopbulling argonians
#deathtoalldunmers (and argonian haters)

PD: Oh! and now you can buy race change tokens! When we were weak as *** we couldn't really do that. Don't know of any player that has changed into an Argonian yet if it's so OP, if that is real, many HardCore players who don't give a crap on anything but stats would've switched. Long time ago! Leave us alone, deal with it.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · January 2018

Twohothardware wrote: »

makreth wrote: »

Khajiits need love because they are jealous and purr...............

Agreed. Khajiit's passive Stealthy does absolutely nothing in PvP or end game PvE on 4 out of the 5 classes in the game that lack Cloak. That means Khajiit's only passives are 10% Stam Recovery, 20% Health Recovery, and 8% Crit. Compare that to Redgard that gets 10% Max Stamina, 9% Stam Recovery, and the Adrenaline passive.

10% max Stamina offers nearly the same DPS as the 8% Crit in PvE while being more beneficial in PvP where everyone decent has high Crit resistance. 9% Stam Recovery + Adrenaline also adds up to way more Sustain than Khajiits 10% Stam Recovery and it allows you to recover Stamina even with a low Recovery stat or when Blocking.

Khajiit needs more Recovery or more damage to make it a competitive race on the other 4 classes in the game that are not Nightblade.

The Khajiit race is the only one without a Attribute bonus in the game, give them one, health would be fine...

Enslaved · January 2018

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

makreth wrote: »

Khajiits need love because they are jealous and purr...............

Agreed. Khajiit's passive Stealthy does absolutely nothing in PvP or end game PvE on 4 out of the 5 classes in the game that lack Cloak. That means Khajiit's only passives are 10% Stam Recovery, 20% Health Recovery, and 8% Crit. Compare that to Redgard that gets 10% Max Stamina, 9% Stam Recovery, and the Adrenaline passive.

10% max Stamina offers nearly the same DPS as the 8% Crit in PvE while being more beneficial in PvP where everyone decent has high Crit resistance. 9% Stam Recovery + Adrenaline also adds up to way more Sustain than Khajiits 10% Stam Recovery and it allows you to recover Stamina even with a low Recovery stat or when Blocking.

Khajiit needs more Recovery or more damage to make it a competitive race on the other 4 classes in the game that are not Nightblade.

The Khajiit race is the only one without a Attribute bonus in the game, give them one, health would be fine...

6% stamina would be very nice

KingExecration · January 2018

I would be down if they added a set that boosted racial passives. Assuming the way it'd work it might have to be crafted. Completely unrelated but it would be cool.

Adenoma · January 2018

I love Argonian design. The potion passive is literally the only racial passive in the game where you get to interact with it via gameplay. I think that's the coolest thing possible for any race and I wish others had the same sort of impact on gameplay via more "active" and less "passive" passives.

Please don't nerf Argonians even if they are just a few percent overtuned, balance other racial passives to play a more noticeable, active role.

lazerlaz · January 2018

Faulgor wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

4620/45 = 102 magicka, stamina and health recovery per second. Is that in any way superior to 10% magicka recovery Altmer's have?

102 h/m/s per second is 204 recovery. You'd need 2000 magicka recovery to match that with an Altmer, and that's just for magicka.
So yes, it is absolutely superior, as far as recovery goes. Whether that makes Argonians superior overall, I couldn't say.

Ding ding ding ding!
We have a winner folks!!!

This is something ive know but not shared when people ask why I'm an Argonian nightblade over a year now.

Cats out of the bag now and this is a big deal to understand for PVP sustain.

Argonian is superior to all in that department.

Congrats!!!

Argonians are master race!!!

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · January 2018

Enslaved wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

makreth wrote: »

Khajiits need love because they are jealous and purr...............

Agreed. Khajiit's passive Stealthy does absolutely nothing in PvP or end game PvE on 4 out of the 5 classes in the game that lack Cloak. That means Khajiit's only passives are 10% Stam Recovery, 20% Health Recovery, and 8% Crit. Compare that to Redgard that gets 10% Max Stamina, 9% Stam Recovery, and the Adrenaline passive.

10% max Stamina offers nearly the same DPS as the 8% Crit in PvE while being more beneficial in PvP where everyone decent has high Crit resistance. 9% Stam Recovery + Adrenaline also adds up to way more Sustain than Khajiits 10% Stam Recovery and it allows you to recover Stamina even with a low Recovery stat or when Blocking.

Khajiit needs more Recovery or more damage to make it a competitive race on the other 4 classes in the game that are not Nightblade.

The Khajiit race is the only one without a Attribute bonus in the game, give them one, health would be fine...

6% stamina would be very nice

Yes, it would but I doubt it would ever happen, if they give health though then atleast the Khajiit would be a little more tanky and have an Attribute bonus which they do not..

Domander · January 2018

Subversus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

We are asking fr a nerf to Argonians? Really?

I erect the spine of the WTF...

Yes we are. They have the ABSOLUTE best sustain passives, more healing, 9% more hp and more mag. In what world is that a balanced class?

It's not a class, it's a race, so...in no world is it a balanced class, but it is a balanced race that was very under powered for a long time.

They've already gone through and balanced racials.

Funny how none of the characters in your sig are Argonian.

Hiero_Glyph · January 2018

KingExecration wrote: »

I would be down if they added a set that boosted racial passives. Assuming the way it'd work it might have to be crafted. Completely unrelated but it would be cool.

That is what sets do though by giving you stat bonuses. I mean if you have a max stat passive and wear items with that stat you get a slightly bigger bonus. The problem with trying to boost racial passives on their own is that each race has unique bonuses so the text would have to be super detailed to cover every possible option. Sure, it sounds like a good idea until you try to implement it and realize it just doesn't work.

makreth · January 2018

Just really....ditch all the percentage stats and add already fixed and balanced racials (values would be based on character;s level). These % bonuses are so much powerful and can go over the top with the current system. Racials need not have a huge impact. Fixed values can be balanced way easier...

SodanTok · January 2018

makreth wrote: »

Just really....ditch all the percentage stats and add already fixed and balanced racials (values would be based on character;s level). These % bonuses are so much powerful and can go over the top with the current system. Racials need not have a huge impact. Fixed values can be balanced way easier...

I would agree but its the opposite way

The % are the weak ones while the fixed ones likes Argonian or Redguard sustains are the strong ones.

Mostly the regen % are very underwhelming, because they are additive with all other bonuses which there are plenty. At least the stat bonuses are much less common (more so on stamina) and are multiplicative with at least something (CP stat bonus)

Nebbles · January 2018

I would love for a full rebalance where they keep flavour passives for the races but remove all stat ones. I dislike the fact that certain races favour stam/magicka. I feel that playing a race you enjoy is more important than the "Nords generally don't use magic" lore argument.

Things like faster swimming is a great example of a nice flavour racial passive without it favouring one spec over another.

Then again, they probably make a lot of cash on race change tokens so Im guessing passive balance changes are mainly influenced by this which I find distasteful.

Vapirko · January 2018

Would be great to see some class rebalancing. But I doubt it will happen this patch. They would have announced it in the first patch notes.

Leingod · January 2018

I really dont know who is rolling Altmer for the AMAZING 4% elemental dmg

HatchetHaro · January 2018

Here's the thing: Argonian racial passives are pretty much at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to PvE dps, and as an Argonian fan currently scorepushing in PvE leaderboards, I really do not want any more nerfs to their resource sustain.

What we need aren't simple changes to the current racial passive system, because it's always going to be a pain to balance with differing complaints from both the PvE and PvP camps where there's always going to be some sort of meta race for something.

We need an overhaul, perhaps a talent system where players can pick their stats for what they want to do on their toons, and they can be separate and unique to each character. Keep some parts of the racial passives, but make them less of a game-changer, such as Argonian swim speed and a tiny bit of extra healing, and Redguards with a small bonus to stamina sustain, or Altmer with 1% extra magicka. I understand if people like racial passives, but this game has way too many competitive aspects for racial passives to be balanced.

Really, there should not be a choice between "play what you enjoy" and "be viable". These stat variables should not be locked down, and at least this way we don't have to be stuck with so many Altmer and Dunmer magicka dps and Redguard and Khajiiti stamina dps on the leaderboards.

MLGProPlayer · January 2018

It would be great if they got rid of racial passives altogether and created some kind of skill tree that all races have access to. It would be a million times easier to balance and you'd be able to play the race you want based on aesthetic.

Lucky28 · January 2018

Give Breton a 4% increase to magic damage.

that would balance the magic races pretty well. the Bretons current passives really aren't that great.

Splattercat_83 · January 2018

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

and just today I rerolled my redguard to orc, because Troll king orc synergy beats dying with a full stamina bar.
I think redguard is not really an issue at the moment. adrenaline rush was nerfed and %9 extra regen is barely noticeable.

The issue with Redguard isn't really as much PvP as it is PvE because in Trials or anywhere else you're constantly light attacking in a DPS rotation so you have maximum uptime on the Adrenaline passive.

Argonian is the main one imbalanced in PvP because you get essentially a Tri Stat potion for free for using a Potion which if you actually consume a Tri Stat Potion is A LOT of recovery you can get even while holding block and having minimal invested into your Recovery stat. And that's on top of 9% max health, 5% healing, 3% max Magicka, and the immunity to disease/poison enchant procs which makes Argonian the race with highest survivability as well.

Leave Argonian the way it is. Screw PVP balance. Argonian is going to be the only real viable choice for a PVE tank now because of the block cost increase, which was due to PVP yet again. ZOS needs to leave Argonian the way it is and the PVPers suck it up and deal with it for once instead of tearing down PVE.

Doctordarkspawn · January 2018

If "Balance" is more nerfing, god I hope not.

Dont nerf argonian. Make every race as good as argonian. Dont lower the bar, raise the bar.

Doctordarkspawn · January 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

It would be great if they got rid of racial passives altogether and created some kind of skill tree that all races have access to. It would be a million times easier to balance and you'd be able to play the race you want based on aesthetic.

I'd love this.

Not all races are raised in they're homelands, more than once I've wanted to have nord passives for my Khajiit.

Maura_Neysa · January 2018

Enslaved wrote: »

Altmer
10% max magicka

10% magicka recovery

all elemental damage is boosted by 4%

Breton
10% max magicka

3% less cost to magicka skills

spell resistance +3960

Dunmer
9% max magicka and 2079 fire resistance

6% max stamina

7% fire damage and 2% other elements damage

Saxhleel
9% health and 1485 disease resistance

3% magicka and 4620 stats return when u drink potion

5%Healing done and received

So, Altmer has 7% more magicka compared to Saxhleel, breton has advantage as well and Dunmer is on 6% more magicka compared to Saxhleel. On a strictly magicka char 6-7% more magicka is not something to neglect no matter what some of u say.
Let's see how these fare on sustain. Altmer has 10% magicka recovery, and that is superior to any other race we have when it comes down to sustaining magicka. Breton has some reduction that is maybe not very strong compared to Altmer's 10% magicka recovery bonus, but it is better than pre morrowind since we cant reduce the cost of our skills in cp tree anymore. Dunmer has zero sustain bonuses and is by far in worst place compared to other magicka races. And Saxhleel has 4620 stat return every 45 seconds, when potion is off cooldown.
4620/45 = 102 magicka, stamina and health recovery per second. Is that in any way superior to 10% magicka recovery Altmer's have? First of all, let's see how are some of these races ment to be played. Altmer has bonuses for ranged magicka characters, any halfwit could see that. Breton is ment to be magicka support, its passives are very good for templars of all kinds, melee or ranged. For a long time, it was race of choice for PvP since it has spell damage reduction, cost reduction and high magicka pool. Add there that 1% AP bonus and there u have it. Dunmer are ment to be one of 3 possible hybrid races ESO have, with Imperial and Saxhleel. As DK's are viable only in melee/mid range, and Dunmer have fire damage bonus that is very strong, Dunmer have that stamina bonus, so they can use 1-2 more blocks compared to more ranged choice such is Altmer. And then, you have Saxhleel. HP bonus and that stat return screams melee, if u ask me. Add there small bonus to disease resistance and there u have it - Saxhleel is ment to be played as a tanky char. Do they excel in that role? Yes, atm. Were they crap tier for years? Yes, they have. Can they outperform Altmer, Dunmer or breton in PvE damage wise? Lol, off course they cannot. Are they played as DDs in PvP? In almost all encounters I had with Saxhleel enemies, they were tanks. DK tanks, Warden tanks, Templar tanks, even saptanks. Are they hard to kill? Hell yeah. Can they kill you? Highly unlikely, if you are not terrible in PvP. So please, l2p. Do not waste time on tanks, use lightning balistas/poisons/light attacks with siphoning in cp activated - do not be part of QQ whinetrain that would result in nerfing Saxhleel back to crap tier race. Let's face it, 4620 health is just 1 attack from non existant, 4620 stamina is just 2-3 blocks away from non existant and 4620 magicka every 45 seconds is not nearly as "special" as some of not that good players would want you to think. Leave Saxhleel alone, their passives make tanking what it should be - a fun activity, not a complete chore.

To add to this post, I run a Warden Tank. I love the Warden and I love tanking, so much so that when I get bored in PvE I go tank in PvP. People are definitely the hardest thing to tank in this game. When I first made my Warden I chose Altmer, in part because I wasn't sure it would be a tank and Altmer is the only mag race with Frost bonuses, and in part because I wanted to make a Snow Elf RP wise. After about 2 months I decided to re-roll to Argonian because I was tired of fighting for vet spots with a non-dk, non-Agronian/Imperial. After another month I re-rolled back to Altmer, sure the Resourceful passive is nice, but as a tank if you're getting enough pressure to need a pot for stamina, you're just delaying the inevitable. The extra healing is pretty unnoticeable when you're casting your own heals but the extra magic max/recovery works out just the same. I traded a marginal amount of tankiness for a marginal increase in my damage from my CC skills. I chose Altmer over Argonian on a tank.... thats how OP Argonians are. (>_>)

Detector · January 2018

No.

ak_pvp · January 2018

Reminder: Khajiit nearly got 6% extra stam, but was removed because they became the absolute best race for stam.

Hiero_Glyph · January 2018

I posted this in another thread about the same topic:

Racial passives fit with the history and lore of the Elder Scrolls series. Sadly, they are far too impactful in ESO to ever truly be balanced. In FFXIV the difference between base stats is 6 from the worst to the best which means very little when you reach hundreds of stat points. What breaks ESO is the percentage based bonuses as these scale too well. If these bonuses either had a maximum value or were static then they would be much more balanced overall.

Imagine if stat passives were capped at 100 per 1% bonus. So an Altmer would cap their max magicka bonus (1,000) when they hit 10k base magicka. This would be impactful at low levels but mostly meaningless at high levels. The same could work for spell damage by type, resistances, crit rates, etc. In the end the percentage scaling is the issue, not the bonuses themselves.

JobooAGS · January 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Reminder: Khajiit nearly got 6% extra stam, but was removed because they became the absolute best race for stam.

If khajiits were to get a buff imo, either spell crit along with their weapon crit (8% each) and/or a passive dodge chance (say 3-5% at max level) and/or a small hp boost (say 6% hp?)

JobooAGS · January 2018

Splattercat_83 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

and just today I rerolled my redguard to orc, because Troll king orc synergy beats dying with a full stamina bar.
I think redguard is not really an issue at the moment. adrenaline rush was nerfed and %9 extra regen is barely noticeable.

The issue with Redguard isn't really as much PvP as it is PvE because in Trials or anywhere else you're constantly light attacking in a DPS rotation so you have maximum uptime on the Adrenaline passive.

Argonian is the main one imbalanced in PvP because you get essentially a Tri Stat potion for free for using a Potion which if you actually consume a Tri Stat Potion is A LOT of recovery you can get even while holding block and having minimal invested into your Recovery stat. And that's on top of 9% max health, 5% healing, 3% max Magicka, and the immunity to disease/poison enchant procs which makes Argonian the race with highest survivability as well.

Leave Argonian the way it is. Screw PVP balance. Argonian is going to be the only real viable choice for a PVE tank now because of the block cost increase, which was due to PVP yet again. ZOS needs to leave Argonian the way it is and the PVPers suck it up and deal with it for once instead of tearing down PVE.

I would say buff imperials and nords rather than nerf argonians, but if argonians have to get nerfed, maybe reduce the potion passive a tad but increase the max mag to say 4-5%?

Mettaricana · January 2018

Bretons give them a magicka version or orcs dmg passive.

Dunmer give em a 5% mag and stam recover

Khajiits give em a 3-7% max stam

Wood elves maybe a 5%bonus to ranged poison and phsyical dmg

Nords slap on a larger stam and rec bonus make em desireable.

Altmer and redguards and argonians are fine as is

JobooAGS · January 2018

Here's a suggestion, keep race and racials seperate. eg. you can have a nord, but have atlmer passives (4% ele damage, 10% max mag and 9% mag regen) or a redguard, but with bosmer passives (21% regen, 6% stam poison and disease resist, 9% stealth damage) but you cannot mix and match, ie you cannot have carange and adrenline rush at the same time

JobooAGS · January 2018

Mettaricana wrote: »

Bretons give them a magicka version or orcs dmg passive.

Dunmer give em a 5% mag and stam recover

Khajiits give em a 3-7% max stam

Wood elves maybe a 5%bonus to ranged poison and phsyical dmg

Nords slap on a larger stam and rec bonus make em desireable.

Altmer and redguards and argonians are fine as is

there was a reason why kitties didnt get max stam the last time it was proposed.