We need better training dummies

Zer0oo · January 2018

We the last off-balance changes we the training dummies are useless and do not show dps in real enviorment. e.g. Boss lvl enemy

Using a Heavy Attack against an Off Balance enemy will now only consume the Off Balance debuff if the enemy is successfully stunned.
This means that using a Heavy Attack against an Off Balance boss enemy will not consume the Off Balance effect, as bosses are immune to crowd control effects.

Using a fully-charged Heavy Attack against an Off Balance enemy will now restore double the amount of resources.

Boss enemies can only be set Off Balance once every 15 to 20 seconds. After the first Off Balance debuff ends on a boss enemy, they will be immune to subsequent Off Balance debuffs until this immunity duration is over.

Since the training dummy can be stunned you can no longer test how your dps will be and have to go back to the old Blood Spawn dps test. Please change dummies so you can actually test something on them again.

Also it really would be nice if you could turn on an option to enable elemental drain on them since it is needed for all magicka dds. (And maybe major resistance debuff)

@ZOS_GinaBruno

P.S The pts-template are really good this time

Tasear · January 2018

Can't test if off balance is okay with these test dummies.

Morgul667 · January 2018

I heard that the 5% slayer bonus is not applied when training on a dummy, that would be for sure something to improve

Zer0oo · January 2018

Morgul667 wrote: »

I heard that the 5% slayer bonus is not applied when training on a dummy, that would be for sure something to improve

Seems to work(at least for master architect)

I just tried the new off-balance system and bosses get at 20sec immunity(wayrest 1 first boss) after the off-balance ends.

But the duration of off-balance can be increased by quite a lot as long as you have lightning wall of elements on the boss and concussion on the boss since the off-balance refreshes on every tick of woe. Bug?

But normal training dummies behave completely different and really should be reworked to reflect the off-balance change. A training dummy does not get any kind of immunity to off balance. Which leads to a really high off-balance up time on them.(I really hope players off-balance behaivior is not the same as the one on the training dummy since that would be kinda broken on some classes in pvp e.g. mag dk and power lash)

ak_pvp · January 2018

Zer0oo wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

I heard that the 5% slayer bonus is not applied when training on a dummy, that would be for sure something to improve

Seems to work(at least for master architect)

I just tried the new off-balance system and bosses get at 20sec immunity(wayrest 1 first boss) after the off-balance ends.

But the duration of off-balance can be increased by quite a lot as long as you have lightning wall of elements on the boss and concussion on the boss since the off-balance refreshes on every tick of woe. Bug?

But normal training dummies behave completely different and really should be reworked to reflect the off-balance change. A training dummy does not get any kind of immunity to off balance. Which leads to a really high off-balance up time on them.(I really hope players off-balance behaivior is not the same as the one on the training dummy since that would be kinda broken on some classes in pvp e.g. mag dk and power lash)

It is. MDK can powerless 4/5x in a rows after stunning.

kaithuzar · January 2018

Oooo, what about training dummies that fight back!
=P

LiquidPony · January 2018

Zer0oo wrote: »

We the last off-balance changes we the training dummies are useless and do not show dps in real enviorment. e.g. Boss lvl enemy

Using a Heavy Attack against an Off Balance enemy will now only consume the Off Balance debuff if the enemy is successfully stunned.
This means that using a Heavy Attack against an Off Balance boss enemy will not consume the Off Balance effect, as bosses are immune to crowd control effects.

Using a fully-charged Heavy Attack against an Off Balance enemy will now restore double the amount of resources.

Boss enemies can only be set Off Balance once every 15 to 20 seconds. After the first Off Balance debuff ends on a boss enemy, they will be immune to subsequent Off Balance debuffs until this immunity duration is over.

Since the training dummy can be stunned you can no longer test how your dps will be and have to go back to the old Blood Spawn dps test. Please change dummies so you can actually test something on them again.

Also it really would be nice if you could turn on an option to enable elemental drain on them since it is needed for all magicka dds. (And maybe major resistance debuff)

@ZOS_GinaBruno

P.S The pts-template are really good this time

Agreed. Been saying this since target skeletons were first announced. Perhaps "turning elemental drain on" would be a bit difficult, but it would be nice to at the very least be able to configure debuffs on the skeleton (e.g., checkboxes for stuff like Major Fracture, Major Breach, Magickasteal, etc.).

At this point the little target skeletons are close to useless for actual testing, but still useful for rotational practice. On console we do all meaningful testing/parsing on the 51m skeleton at this point.

Piggybacking on this, it would be *really* nice if ZOS would provide even a scaled-back CMX-like implementation in the base game. It would be wonderful for console players to be able to see actual in-game parses. I'm sure we'll never get anything like CMX where we can actually look at uptimes and break down DPS by skill/effect, because ZOS seems to want to make the game as hard to understand as humanly possible, but even just a "DPS: 65,000" at the end of a boss fight would be a huge win.

sikamoar · January 2018

Agreed, dps dummies need to be fixed so we can test CP allocation, especially now that OB has been significantly re-worked

Izaki · January 2018

Zer0oo wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

I heard that the 5% slayer bonus is not applied when training on a dummy, that would be for sure something to improve

Seems to work(at least for master architect)

I just tried the new off-balance system and bosses get at 20sec immunity(wayrest 1 first boss) after the off-balance ends.

But the duration of off-balance can be increased by quite a lot as long as you have lightning wall of elements on the boss and concussion on the boss since the off-balance refreshes on every tick of woe. Bug?

But normal training dummies behave completely different and really should be reworked to reflect the off-balance change. A training dummy does not get any kind of immunity to off balance. Which leads to a really high off-balance up time on them.(I really hope players off-balance behaivior is not the same as the one on the training dummy since that would be kinda broken on some classes in pvp e.g. mag dk and power lash)

Pretty sure that the Blockade thing is intended

BigBadVolk · January 2018

Izaki wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

I heard that the 5% slayer bonus is not applied when training on a dummy, that would be for sure something to improve

Seems to work(at least for master architect)

I just tried the new off-balance system and bosses get at 20sec immunity(wayrest 1 first boss) after the off-balance ends.

But the duration of off-balance can be increased by quite a lot as long as you have lightning wall of elements on the boss and concussion on the boss since the off-balance refreshes on every tick of woe. Bug?

But normal training dummies behave completely different and really should be reworked to reflect the off-balance change. A training dummy does not get any kind of immunity to off balance. Which leads to a really high off-balance up time on them.(I really hope players off-balance behaivior is not the same as the one on the training dummy since that would be kinda broken on some classes in pvp e.g. mag dk and power lash)

Pretty sure that the Blockade thing is intended

so offbalance is not rip? (I'm a little confused here)

Zer0oo · January 2018

BigBadVolk wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

I heard that the 5% slayer bonus is not applied when training on a dummy, that would be for sure something to improve

Seems to work(at least for master architect)

I just tried the new off-balance system and bosses get at 20sec immunity(wayrest 1 first boss) after the off-balance ends.

But the duration of off-balance can be increased by quite a lot as long as you have lightning wall of elements on the boss and concussion on the boss since the off-balance refreshes on every tick of woe. Bug?

But normal training dummies behave completely different and really should be reworked to reflect the off-balance change. A training dummy does not get any kind of immunity to off balance. Which leads to a really high off-balance up time on them.(I really hope players off-balance behaivior is not the same as the one on the training dummy since that would be kinda broken on some classes in pvp e.g. mag dk and power lash)

Pretty sure that the Blockade thing is intended

so offbalance is not rip? (I'm a little confused here)

If it is intended it is no rip for good grps with asylum destros and rip for not so good grps.

lailoken · January 2018

kaithuzar wrote: »

Oooo, what about training dummies that fight back!
=P

Our pride can't survive getting pwnt by a training dummy.....

However, it would be nice to have training dummies that does fight back though. It would give us the chance to see if our self heals works while we get our rotations down to pat. I've used a guildmate's test dummy, found my templar was doing nearly 40k damages, went stab Gravelord, and died because I didn't take into consideration the DPS drop when applying self heals (jab isn't on my rotation any more, I may have to put it back on..), plus applying the heals messed with my trained rotations... because I wasn't healing myself when testing the rotation on the training dummy. Yergh.

Zer0oo · January 2018

So target dummies are still not boss lvl enemies? Why? Not everyone wants to go back to the time when you had to dps test in a dungeon.

Daila820 · January 2018

@Zer0oo Exactly. I thought all target dummies would have the same off-balance changes that the bosses would have. Seems like a bug to me. Wish we could have confirmation on that one.

Tannus15 · January 2018

kaithuzar wrote: »

Oooo, what about training dummies that fight back!
=P

I've actually been wanting this for ages.
Small hits, like 10 damage, every half second.
this would allow sets like seventh legion to proc and give a better idea of actual DPS.

FakeFox · January 2018

I got a better idea: Don't change the god damn off balance system in the first place!

Masel · January 2018

FakeFox wrote: »

I got a better idea: Don't change the god damn off balance system in the first place!

Agreed. No-one asked for it. I mean they've spent a lot of time developing stuff like this that no-one asked for instead of working on stuff a lot of people ask for (set balancing, performance improvements, class balancing...)