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Are we going to finally get some Race balancing this PTS? Post suggestions

Twohothardware
Twohothardware
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We've had some major PTS patches this past year come and go and just about each one myself and others have asked for another Race balance passover to correct some imbalances that have been further perpetuated by other core changes in the game such as the major overhaul of Stamina/Magicka sustain.

There's one race in particular, the Argonian, that you may have noticed the huge influx of as of late for PvP. ESO steamers and build publishers recommending Argonian as best for not just Magicka builds but for Stamina and Tank. The reason being is the Argonian Resourceful passive which returns 4620 Health, Stamina, and Magicka when you consume a Potion. You essentially get almost a Tri Stat potion on top of the resources from the actual Potion you use.

Why is this a big deal? Because when Stamina/Magicka sustain was rebalanced in the effort to make players invest more into Recovery instead of just running double damage sets they seemed to forget that there is two races in the game where you can get a lot of Resource return regardless of your Recovery stat, Argonian and Redguard. In the case of Argonian you not only get the sustain for your main stat but you get that same Recovery for Health, Stamina, and Magicka. That is why Argonian has gained such massive popularity lately because in PvP the #1 factor is sustain now, not a few percentage differences in DPS.

Now I'm not calling for a nerf to Argonian or Redguard but with all these major changes to sustain the other races need buffs to offset that huge difference in resource return. Namely races like Khajiit, Nord, Imperial, and Breton are the ones furthest behind and in need of some kind of buffs. Wood Elf, Orc, and High Elf could use minor buffs as well either in Recovery or Damage.

As another major update rolls around here at the first of the year I hope that we can see at least some look this PTS at what can be changed to bring more balance between the Races.
Edited by Twohothardware on January 10, 2018 1:10AM
  • Ragnarock41
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    and just today I rerolled my redguard to orc, because Troll king orc synergy beats dying with a full stamina bar.
    I think redguard is not really an issue at the moment. adrenaline rush was nerfed and %9 extra regen is barely noticeable.

    I think something like a little extra heavy attack sustain would really fit orcs well.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on January 9, 2018 10:43PM
  • Twohothardware
    Twohothardware
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    and just today I rerolled my redguard to orc, because Troll king orc synergy beats dying with a full stamina bar.
    I think redguard is not really an issue at the moment. adrenaline rush was nerfed and %9 extra regen is barely noticeable.

    The issue with Redguard isn't really as much PvP as it is PvE because in Trials or anywhere else you're constantly light attacking in a DPS rotation so you have maximum uptime on the Adrenaline passive.

    Argonian is the main one imbalanced in PvP because you get essentially a Tri Stat potion for free for using a Potion which if you actually consume a Tri Stat Potion is A LOT of recovery you can get even while holding block and having minimal invested into your Recovery stat. And that's on top of 9% max health, 5% healing, 3% max Magicka, and the immunity to disease/poison enchant procs which makes Argonian the race with highest survivability as well.
    Edited by Twohothardware on January 9, 2018 10:56PM
  • Hiero_Glyph
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    At this point it would have to be minor buffs only unless ZOS wants to give out racial change tokens to everyone every time they change racial passives. I don't disagree with you but there are much bigger problems now than just balance.
  • Twohothardware
    Twohothardware
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    At this point it would have to be minor buffs only unless ZOS wants to give out racial change tokens to everyone every time they change racial passives. I don't disagree with you but there are much bigger problems now than just balance.

    I wouldn't say I'm calling for any major buffs that would make Redguard/Argonian so bad you'd need a race change token. I think Khajiit needs something like 4% max Stamina and increase the Stamina Recovery bonus from 10% to like 16%. I think Breton needs a bonus to Magic damage similar to Dark Elf/High Elf has in Element damage. And I think Nord and Imperial need to just better suit their roles of being noticeably tankier which at the moment they aren't when Argonian gets 9% health, 5% healing, and a ton of sustain.

  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    Really only nord is at a major disadvantage compared to other races.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Aliyavana
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    STOP, Redguards have had too many nerfs and took a huge nerf before morrowind
  • usmcjdking
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    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Really only nord is at a major disadvantage compared to other races.

    I think the defensive buff to Nord and Breton don't result in enough impact to make them desireable since defensive passives in this game aren't very strong and won't ever be strong.

    I think giving Breton 4% dmg reduction on top of the spell resist and Nord an additional 2kish physical resistance would put them squarely into the competitive branch for PVP as well as provide them substantial PVE defensive buffs making them fairly resilient vs high damage mechanics on newer trial groups.
    0331
    0602
  • Twohothardware
    Twohothardware
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    aliyavana wrote: »
    STOP, Redguards have had too many nerfs and took a huge nerf before morrowind

    Noone is calling for nerfs. I'm looking for buffs to bring more parity after all the changes that have been made to Sustain in the last year.
  • Aliyavana
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    I think bosmer could use a buff to put them competitive in pve against rg and khajiit. Birds need help as well.
  • Ragnarock41
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    aliyavana wrote: »
    STOP, Redguards have had too many nerfs and took a huge nerf before morrowind

    Noone is calling for nerfs. I'm looking for buffs to bring more parity after all the changes that have been made to Sustain in the last year.

    in this game, if you say ''X is stronger, so buff Y'' zos will nerf the X.

    Example: players ask for stone fist buff, even a stam morph, result: petrify range nerf, so stone fist feels unique..
  • Subversus
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    Agree, argonian right now is more overpowered than redguard ever was. Basically if you're not running argonian on magblade, be it heavy or light, you're cutting off both your arms and half your right foot. Not to mention the fact that it's a brainless choice on other classes like magden or magplar as well.

    INSANE resource management, CRAZY healing passives, extra mag, 9% MORE HP(!!!!!!!!!). 2 of these have to go, take your pick at which one @zos
  • Enslaved
    Enslaved
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    Suggestions? Racial passive branches. For augmenting ones we have or specializing more with a diminishing of passives we already have.

    For example, let's look at Nord.

    image.png?width=832&height=410

    What I propose is making rugged have an alternative - passive that would augment cold damage by 7% and reduce block cost with frost staff by 5%.
    Choosing this passive over rugged would diminish stalwart stamina bonus to 3% and health recovery to 10%, but would boost magicka by 3%

    This and similar changes would make more interesting choices for all races, since I dislike the fact that ALL NORDS (add race of your choice) are COMPLETELY THE SAME. This would give some flavor to the game yet would not be broken.
  • Twohothardware
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    Subversus wrote: »
    Agree, argonian right now is more overpowered than redguard ever was. Basically if you're not running argonian on magblade, be it heavy or light, you're cutting off both your arms and half your right foot. Not to mention the fact that it's a brainless choice on other classes like magden or magplar as well.

    INSANE resource management, CRAZY healing passives, extra mag, 9% MORE HP(!!!!!!!!!). 2 of these have to go, take your pick at which one @zos

    In the current sustain heavy meta I agree that Argonian is more unbalanced in PvP than Redguard was before the last nerf. Back then we had reduce cost CP, more reduce cost and recovery from the armor passives, and high cost skills like Vigor cost less. That's why I'm saying we've reached a point where there needs to be another Race balance pass because so much has changed in the last year.
  • Solariken
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    Well I definitely hope we don't see any nerfs to Argonian - for once they actually got something right and made this race feel fun and unique. IMO all races should have an "if/then" passive where if you perform a certain action something really fun and powerful happens.

    I proposed a really cool replacement for Imperials a while back:

    Red Diamond

    When taking damage, you have an X% chance to restore Y% of max health over Z seconds.

    Critical strikes with weapon attacks have an X% chance to restore Y% of max stamina over Z seconds.

    Critical strikes with spells have an X% chance to restore Y% of max magicka over Z seconds.

    Each time you gain ultimate, you have an X% chance to gain 1 additional ultimate.
    Edited by Solariken on January 10, 2018 12:44AM
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    Bosmer pet bonsus

    Pet tamer
    Increases defensive abilities, healing abilities, and damage abilities

    :*

    P.S I hope Argonian doesn't change
  • Morgul667
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    Please dont nerfs races, only buff nords to be on par with other races and maybe very slightly bosmer/khajiit ?

    other races are fine and all have their pros and cons
  • Rex-Umbra
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    Red guard is fine, Argonian is op.
    Xbox GT: Rex Umbrah
    GM of IMPERIUM since 2015.
  • Joy_Division
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    Nords Suck.

    Argonians don't need nerfs; bad races just need a reason for people to want to play them.
    Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.
  • Hiero_Glyph
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    Morgul667 wrote: »
    Please dont nerfs races, only buff nords to be on par with other races and maybe very slightly bosmer/khajiit ?

    other races are fine and all have their pros and cons

    Imperial's Red Diamond passive needs an overhaul.
  • Subversus
    Subversus
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    Morgul667 wrote: »
    Please dont nerfs races, only buff nords to be on par with other races and maybe very slightly bosmer/khajiit ?

    other races are fine and all have their pros and cons

    Argonian has no con for a magblade or a magplar. Same would be for magdk if they didn't have fire damage, making dunmer a really good choice.

    Read this following sentence and meditate on it's meaning; think about it really hard.

    Argonian is overpowered.
  • Xvorg
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    We are asking fr a nerf to Argonians? Really?

    I erect the spine of the WTF...
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • Subversus
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    We are asking fr a nerf to Argonians? Really?

    I erect the spine of the WTF...

    Yes we are. They have the ABSOLUTE best sustain passives, more healing, 9% more hp and more mag. In what world is that a balanced class?
  • Solariken
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    Subversus wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    We are asking fr a nerf to Argonians? Really?

    I erect the spine of the WTF...

    Yes we are. They have the ABSOLUTE best sustain passives, more healing, 9% more hp and more mag. In what world is that a balanced class?

    No, Argonian should be the standard by which bad races are buffed. Argonian is something they actually got right.
  • Twohothardware
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    We are asking fr a nerf to Argonians? Really?

    I erect the spine of the WTF...

    I honestly don't want to see a nerf to Argonian because it just leaves these other races still feeling medeocre. I want to see Khajiit, Nord, Imperial, and Breton especially to get some racial buffs that makes them feel as unique and rewarding as when playing on Argonian. But if ZOS can't figure out how to do that then just buff the existing racial passives.
  • Subversus
    Subversus
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    We are asking fr a nerf to Argonians? Really?

    I erect the spine of the WTF...

    I honestly don't want to see a nerf to Argonian because it just leaves these other races still feeling medeocre. I want to see Khajiit, Nord, Imperial, and Breton especially to get some racial buffs that makes them feel as unique and rewarding as when playing on Argonian. But if ZOS can't figure out how to do that then just buff the existing racial passives.

    You mean make them equally as overpowered? Racials are supposed to be a tiny bonus that you pick for RP reasons, not a frickin 200-stam-and-mag-recovery kind of bonus. That's like amberplasm, a 5p set ffs.
    Edited by Subversus on January 10, 2018 6:15PM
  • Hiero_Glyph
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    Solariken wrote: »
    Subversus wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    We are asking fr a nerf to Argonians? Really?

    I erect the spine of the WTF...

    Yes we are. They have the ABSOLUTE best sustain passives, more healing, 9% more hp and more mag. In what world is that a balanced class?

    No, Argonian should be the standard by which bad races are buffed. Argonian is something they actually got right.

    I agree that Argonian is the new standard, which is nice since it was bottom tier for years.

    I could see an argument for slightly reducing the sustain amount when drinking a potion but it would have to be a minor reduction (<300 per rank).
  • Subversus
    Subversus
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    We are asking fr a nerf to Argonians? Really?

    I erect the spine of the WTF...

    I honestly don't want to see a nerf to Argonian because it just leaves these other races still feeling medeocre. I want to see Khajiit, Nord, Imperial, and Breton especially to get some racial buffs that makes them feel as unique and rewarding as when playing on Argonian. But if ZOS can't figure out how to do that then just buff the existing racial passives.

    You know what's funny? Argonians have better magicka passives than altmer, the masters of magicka. Think about that for a second ;););)
  • BigBadVolk
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    I only want them to give magicka damage to dark elves and high elves (both 4%) :(
    Edited by BigBadVolk on January 10, 2018 6:23PM
    "The ass is similar to the opinion: Everyone has it, but no one cares about the others!"
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  • Twohothardware
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    Subversus wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    We are asking fr a nerf to Argonians? Really?

    I erect the spine of the WTF...

    I honestly don't want to see a nerf to Argonian because it just leaves these other races still feeling medeocre. I want to see Khajiit, Nord, Imperial, and Breton especially to get some racial buffs that makes them feel as unique and rewarding as when playing on Argonian. But if ZOS can't figure out how to do that then just buff the existing racial passives.

    You know what's funny? Argonians have better magicka passives than altmer, the masters of magicka. Think about that for a second ;););)

    Argonian actually has considerably better Magicka passives than High Elf at least for PvP. Before you even get to the advantage Argonian has in not just Magicka but Stamina sustain the 5% Healing + 3% Magicka on Argonian also gives larger heals than +10% Magicka on High Elf. The DPS advantage the High Elf has from a few more percentage damage is not noticeable outside of Trials. PvP is all about sustain and healing.
  • asneakybanana
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    IMO really the only race that isnt viable right now is Nord which I think definitely needs some love as there are other races that make better tanks. All the other classes are good at their designated role, whether dps or heals or tank and magicka or stamina.
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