Should Outfitting require a style/motif stone per item?

Carbonised · January 2018

Already there has been some debate on the main forum when ZOS announced the outfitting system at ESO Live. Some of us were a bit surprised that the cost for appearance changing was purely a cost of gold, and no requirement of the already existant style/motif components.

Without this escalating into a debate or a discussion, cast your vote whether outfitting should or shouldn't use the already existant motif stones. This can be done in many ways, either in addition to a gold cost, instead of a gold cost, or with a reduced gold cost including a motif stone, say 1k + stone instead of 2k per item, for the rarer motifs.

Voting yes would mean you prefer that it costs 1 Malachite to change an item slot into the Glass motif, 1 Laurel to change it into Mercenary motif and so on for all the motifs.
Voting no would mean you prefer a change to require only gold, as ZOS has implemented it so far.

Aliyavana · January 2018

No, outfitting should only require gold cost

We need gold sinks

Carbonised · January 2018

Yes, outfitting should require 1 style/motif mat per slot changed

aliyavana wrote: »

We need gold sinks

I would argue that there already are enough gold sinks in the game, when luxury furnishings cost 100k per item, when achievement furnishings cost 150k per item.

We also need a style stone sink, right now they are pretty worthless, and with this outfitting system, they will become truly useless and worthless.

One doesn't have to exclude the other. Personally I prefer a mix, where appearance changing required 1 style mat and 1k gold for the rarer motifs, instead of 2k per item. I think that's a more balanced solution, plus it actually makes style mats have a function besides being useless crafting bag fillers.

Nestor · January 2018

Considering there are some styles I know that I still don't have enough style mats to make, I like this change.

But, on the other hand, ZOS is going to lose Revenue on the Mimic Stone packs as no one would ever need those again.

Carbonised · January 2018

Yes, outfitting should require 1 style/motif mat per slot changed

Nestor wrote: »

Considering there are some styles I know that I still don't have enough style mats to make, I like this change.

But, on the other hand, ZOS is going to lose Revenue on the Mimic Stone packs as no one would ever need those again.

Style mats are easy to buy in large amounts on every guild trader. The most expensive ones cost a few hundred gold each, the cheapest ones less than 100. The only exceptions being dwemer frames and brass, since they are required for furnishing recipes.

Many of us are drowning in style mats, I have at least 500 of each as it is.

And yes, there is the problem of mimic stones to think of as well. Mimic stones after this will be worth next to nothing. They might as well remove them from the game altogether. At least if they implement a style mat cost, you could use a mimic stone for whenever you lacked the required material.

Marto · January 2018

Yes, outfitting should require 1 style/motif mat per slot changed

I like this idea. Let me market and economy of the game decide the cost of outfit changes, rather than have it be forced by the developers.

...That sounded way more capitalist than I intended. Please don't kill me.

kookster · January 2018

Yes, outfitting should require 1 style/motif mat per slot changed

I sink all my gold in potions, please dont take my monies to make me look purty

Nestor · January 2018

Carbonised wrote: »

Style mats are easy to buy in large amounts on every guild trader. The most expensive ones cost a few hundred gold each, the cheapest ones less than 100. The only exceptions being dwemer frames and brass, since they are required for furnishing recipes.

You have 500 Scarabs or Dried Blood or Ancient Scales or the other Style mats for the new motifs?

Ryuuki · January 2018

Yes, outfitting should require 1 style/motif mat per slot changed

I think they should cost a style motif item. If not, one could simply craft their items in a basic style and convert them to a rarer one with the outfit system, making style motif items nearly useless. I like items to have a purpose in the game and I think it would feel bad if these items became nearly useless. I wouldn't mind this in addition to a gold cost.

Mettaricana · January 2018

No, outfitting should only require gold cost

Stop trying to make things more complicated

Doctordarkspawn · January 2018

No, outfitting should only require gold cost

Carbonised wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

We need gold sinks

I would argue that there already are enough gold sinks in the game, when luxury furnishings cost 100k per item, when achievement furnishings cost 150k per item.

We also need a style stone sink, right now they are pretty worthless, and with this outfitting system, they will become truly useless and worthless.

One doesn't have to exclude the other. Personally I prefer a mix, where appearance changing required 1 style mat and 1k gold for the rarer motifs, instead of 2k per item. I think that's a more balanced solution, plus it actually makes style mats have a function besides being useless crafting bag fillers.

There's no shortage of them and you can just throw them away.

Why are you even bringing it up? Seems like a needless cost increase.

Mettaricana · January 2018

No, outfitting should only require gold cost

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

We need gold sinks

I would argue that there already are enough gold sinks in the game, when luxury furnishings cost 100k per item, when achievement furnishings cost 150k per item.

We also need a style stone sink, right now they are pretty worthless, and with this outfitting system, they will become truly useless and worthless.

One doesn't have to exclude the other. Personally I prefer a mix, where appearance changing required 1 style mat and 1k gold for the rarer motifs, instead of 2k per item. I think that's a more balanced solution, plus it actually makes style mats have a function besides being useless crafting bag fillers.

There's no shortage of them and you can just throw them away.

Why are you even bringing it up? Seems like a needless cost increase.

Style stones are used in furniture crafting

NewBlacksmurf · January 2018

No, outfitting should only require gold cost

No
What mindset causes anyone to think a cosmetic look should require materials? It’s not crafting

WhiteCoatSyndrome · January 2018

No, outfitting should only require gold cost

Now that I've actually gotten to play with this I can wholeheartedly say no, keep it to just gold. As it is the system is fast and easy to use. Make style stones a requirement and it will become a chore. 'All set to make your all-Glass Outfit? Psych! You're short one Malachite! Have fun spending twenty minutes sifting through Guild traders to make a two-second change (especially you people on console)!' Anyway we already have furniture as a style stone sink.

Carbonised · January 2018

Yes, outfitting should require 1 style/motif mat per slot changed

"WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

"Anyway we already have furniture as a style stone sink.

Not really true though. Basic racial style stones are vendor bought, and therefore don't need a sink, and apart from those, the only furniture that require style stones are the odd dwemer and clockwork furnishings.

The vast majority of style stones have no furnishing recipes associated with them, and once outfitting goes live, they won't be used in crafting either, since there's little to no reason to craft exotic styles any more.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · January 2018

No, outfitting should only require gold cost

Carbonised wrote: »

Not really true though. Basic racial style stones are vendor bought, and therefore don't need a sink, and apart from those, the only furniture that require style stones are the odd dwemer and clockwork furnishings.

This argument doesn't make sense. You're saying you can get an unlimited amount, so you don't need a way to get rid of them?

Carbonised wrote: »

The vast majority of style stones have no furnishing recipes associated with them, and once outfitting goes live, they won't be used in crafting either, since there's little to no reason to craft exotic styles any more.

That just means they need more furniture styles--and they've been adding them, just at a slow pace--and the rarer stones don't pile up as much anyway. Also dedicated crafters will only be able to make outfits for themselves, so anyone who wants a certain look will either have to ask someone to make it for them (consuming a style stone in the process) or become a crafter.

Iselin · January 2018

No, outfitting should only require gold cost

I see no reason to add a mats sink. Why would anyone want this?

Carbonised · January 2018

Yes, outfitting should require 1 style/motif mat per slot changed

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Not really true though. Basic racial style stones are vendor bought, and therefore don't need a sink, and apart from those, the only furniture that require style stones are the odd dwemer and clockwork furnishings.

This argument doesn't make sense. You're saying you can get an unlimited amount, so you don't need a way to get rid of them?

Carbonised wrote: »

The vast majority of style stones have no furnishing recipes associated with them, and once outfitting goes live, they won't be used in crafting either, since there's little to no reason to craft exotic styles any more.

That just means they need more furniture styles--and they've been adding them, just at a slow pace--and the rarer stones don't pile up as much anyway. Also dedicated crafters will only be able to make outfits for themselves, so anyone who wants a certain look will either have to ask someone to make it for them (consuming a style stone in the process) or become a crafter.

Everyone will need to gather all the motifs, if you craft for someone else you're still limited by not being able to craft jewelry, and only being able to craft 5 pieces for someone. No viable build uses more than 5 pieces of crafted equipment ever, due to the lackluster nature of many crafted sets, plus the inability to craft jewelry. So if I make you a 5 piece of glorious rare motif armor, you'll still have to have that motif learned to turn all your other pieces into that motif, and odds are you then have all the motif pieces learned already, and then don't care what motif i craft to you in the first place, since you will change the pieces regardless.

Also for furniture, it's not gonna happen. There are materials for trinimac style, malacath style and ancient orc style. Yet all furnishings from Wrothgar require Manganese. What about Mazzatun materials, Stalhrim shards, Hollowjack, Skinchanger, Silken Ring, Bloodforge, Dreadhorn, Order of the Hour, Minotaur, or all the 35+ other styles? I don't hink we're getting furnisture in those styles anytime soon.

The basic racial motif stones don't count, yes. It's perfectly logical. They don't have a "drop" source, they are bought deliberately from the NPCs in order to craft furnishing. The few stones that do drop from decon and looting are not nearly enough for the crafting needs, just look at how few are for sale in guild stores.
So, they have a very large sink, but they also have an endless supply through gold. So basically every racial motif stone is just 15 gold pieces converted into another material. Since they are NPc bought, their gold value is also stuck. They can never have a value beyond 15 gold pieces, since that would be higher than what you can buy them for at the NPC. That is why they don't feature into the economy around motif stones.

Taleof2Cities · January 2018

Yes, outfitting should require 1 style/motif mat per slot changed

The costume overlays simply make rare style stones useless.

There has to be another way to use style stones before they’re moved to the trash heap in February.

Voxicity · January 2018

Yes, outfitting should require 1 style/motif mat per slot changed

In addition to gold cost

Carbonised · January 2018

Yes, outfitting should require 1 style/motif mat per slot changed

The poll is pretty much split half, with a small minority against using motif stones.

It will be interesting what the end results are going to be, please keep voting.

I think ZOS should at least consider adding a motif stone into the equation. At least they should consider what we are actually going to use those many hundreds of motif stones for in the future, not even to mention those mimic stones some people have bought from the store, or gotten handed out in reward boxes or crown crates.

Mix · January 2018

Yes, outfitting should require 1 style/motif mat per slot changed

the style stone (or mimic stone) and no gold cost!

Recremen · January 2018

No, outfitting should only require gold cost

Neither, outfitting should have no associated cost to it except buying more outfit slots. We have never before had a per-use cost for cosmetic things and we should not start now.

Sandman929 · January 2018

No, outfitting should only require gold cost

I'd personally just rather keep it as a gold cost, but it'd be nice if the style stones sold for something to NPC vendors, even just 1 gold. Right now it's just valueless garbage that I pick up while playing the game.

Elsonso · January 2018

Yes, outfitting should require 1 style/motif mat per slot changed

The game already has an established system for using styles, and the Outfit system should use it.

HeroOfNone · January 2018

Yes, outfitting should require 1 style/motif mat per slot changed

I think it should, it's a very cheap cost otherwise. Charge the gold and at least a style stone or mimic stone in the cost. If you use a crown store token however you should bypass this.

If they don't I worry that the style materials will lose even more of their value or ZOS will do something wacky because mimic stones will lose their value.

In the meantime do keep in mind that style stones are used in furniture making, so there is still something of a sink

WhiteCoatSyndrome · January 2018

No, outfitting should only require gold cost

Carbonised wrote: »

Everyone will need to gather all the motifs, if you craft for someone else you're still limited by not being able to craft jewelry, and only being able to craft 5 pieces for someone. No viable build uses more than 5 pieces of crafted equipment ever, due to the lackluster nature of many crafted sets, plus the inability to craft jewelry. So if I make you a 5 piece of glorious rare motif armor, you'll still have to have that motif learned to turn all your other pieces into that motif, and odds are you then have all the motif pieces learned already, and then don't care what motif i craft to you in the first place, since you will change the pieces regardless.

Not everyone goes for a viable build, not everyone has the same idea of what a viable build is in the first place, and not everyone wants all their pieces in the same Motif. I myself mix and match Motifs on my own (crafted) gear because I like how they go together. EX: My CP 140 set was a mix of Khajiit, Breton, and Primal. And when I mix in non-crafted sets I purposely save the pieces that will go best with what I want to craft, or craft something that will go with the dropped sets.

Add to that, if your theoretical buyer is that concerned with their looks, they can ALREADY hide everything under a costume or disguise and ask for the set you craft to be in Breton or something else common. So this is already happening.

Carbonised wrote: »

Also for furniture, it's not gonna happen. There are materials for trinimac style, malacath style and ancient orc style. Yet all furnishings from Wrothgar require Manganese. What about Mazzatun materials, Stalhrim shards, Hollowjack, Skinchanger, Silken Ring, Bloodforge, Dreadhorn, Order of the Hour, Minotaur, or all the 35+ other styles? I don't hink we're getting furnisture in those styles anytime soon.

It is happening, just slowly. None of these systems were made over night, but they already added Dwemer and Daedric and Ancient Elf. And as @Nestor pointed out, most people don't have great quantities of the newer and rarer style stones, so there isn't much need for a sink for those yet. (Especially Stalhrim since that's a Crown Store only style you can only get the stones for by deconning existing pieces.

)

Carbonised wrote: »

The basic racial motif stones don't count, yes. It's perfectly logical. They don't have a "drop" source, they are bought deliberately from the NPCs in order to craft furnishing. The few stones that do drop from decon and looting are not nearly enough for the crafting needs, just look at how few are for sale in guild stores.

You've got it backwards. They drop all over the place. EX: I've got over 1k of Manganese – JUST from looting and deconning. I've never bought or needed to buy base race stones. I did put a dent in my Obsidian stocks crafting Morrowind furniture – I'm now down to a little over 700.

Carbonised wrote: »

So, they have a very large sink, but they also have an endless supply through gold. So basically every racial motif stone is just 15 gold pieces converted into another material. Since they are NPc bought, their gold value is also stuck. They can never have a value beyond 15 gold pieces, since that would be higher than what you can buy them for at the NPC. That is why they don't feature into the economy around motif stones.

You remember that Obsidian I mentioned? Those MM for about 26 gold/piece in the trade guilds I'm in, and there have been just a little shy of 1500 individual items sold in the last month (PC NA). Not sure if this is just ignorance on the part of many many buyers or people willing to spend more for convenience, but people are buying it for more than vendor price.

Mystrius_Archaion · January 2018

No, outfitting should only require gold cost

aliyavana wrote: »

We need gold sinks

No.

Gold sinks cause the problem of too much gold because people always want to "get ahead".
If people could just get the gold they need with some effort after they realize they need it then they just get the gold they need, but if they think they will need an unknown quantity ahead of actually having a goal item to spend it on then they will farm extra gold that goes unused until they find something to spend it on and then they always try to save for "the next unknown thing".
It's a vicious cycle that causes the inflation.

Also, bot farmers love this and it attracts them like flies to honey. This game has gold sinks because of bot farmers but it has bot farmers because of the initial gold sinks. It's a reinforcing cycle.
I hope you like competing with bots wherever you farm or quest.

Acrolas · January 2018

No, outfitting should only require gold cost

Gold only or a token is fine.

Style materials will continue to be used in furnishing plans. Mimic stones can be activated for use with housing plans and rarer style materials can be used in furnishing plans as there will be a little less competition as to what end product to spend that material on.

Edziu · January 2018

Yes, outfitting should require 1 style/motif mat per slot changed

aliyavana wrote: »

We need gold sinks

basic style stones can be bought from vendor and are so cheap so also can be to need more than 1 stone per piece

Nestor wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Style mats are easy to buy in large amounts on every guild trader. The most expensive ones cost a few hundred gold each, the cheapest ones less than 100. The only exceptions being dwemer frames and brass, since they are required for furnishing recipes.

You have 500 Scarabs or Dried Blood or Ancient Scales or the other Style mats for the new motifs?

maybe not that much but its not problem to have more than 50 of any dlc etc style stones if just playing

and this is also no problem to maybe have just lowered cost in gold if we want to spent on it mats?
tbh as also many wrote i t here we have some gold sing in game which are extremaly expensive I can say so we dont need more as it can be utilized by mats sink

Enslaved · January 2018

Yes, outfitting should require 1 style/motif mat per slot changed

I would be ok with that. If not, its fine as well.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Should Outfitting require a style/motif stone per item?

Should Outfitting require a style/motif stone per item? 215 votes