Can you guys nerf heavy armor already especially seventh legion
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Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »
these videos was pretty insightful and opened my eyes to some things thanks for sharingOP, I’m going to share with you a link that was shared with me by @Rohamad_Ali in order to clear things up. I’m certain this video will make all of ZOS’ balancing decisions much more clear.
https://youtu.be/e31OSVZF77w
I’ll also add this into the mix for a bonus.
https://youtu.be/EitZRLt2G3w
Hopefully those 2 videos will enlighten you a bit as they did for me.
i actually enjoyed watching them
Wow. @Ch4mpTW you are a better man than me. Education works over ridicule. Who new?
@Yolokin_Swagonborn I am not better than you, for the simple reason that I only know 1 thing. Of which of course is that I know nothing.
4 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »
these videos was pretty insightful and opened my eyes to some things thanks for sharingOP, I’m going to share with you a link that was shared with me by @Rohamad_Ali in order to clear things up. I’m certain this video will make all of ZOS’ balancing decisions much more clear.https://youtu.be/e31OSVZF77w
I’ll also add this into the mix for a bonus.https://youtu.be/EitZRLt2G3w
Hopefully those 2 videos will enlighten you a bit as they did for me. i actually enjoyed watching them
Wow. @Ch4mpTW you are a better man than me. Education works over ridicule. Who new?
@Yolokin_Swagonborn I am not better than you, for the simple reason that I only know 1 thing. Of which of course is that I know nothing.
Perfect Zen Quote .
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danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Mister_DMC wrote: »Funny that I bought all my seventh Legion a year ago for pennies, everyone in Bangkorai would just give it away as it was a "Garbage set". Now it's op? Learn to play people, life isn't fair and some people will always be better than you.
Yeah its funny how sets go unused for months, even years. Then when a few streamers start using them, they suddenly become OP.
Perhaps good players using decent builds do well in PvP?
I would love it if some streamer or good pvp'er could start using a completely ridiculous set. Lets say 5x ashen grip and 5x Baharaha's curse, record a bunch of 1vX videos with it, and then just wait till we start seeing nerf threads.
It's more because other sets have had cooldown attached to them or the cooldowns have been increased to a certain amount so they can't have 100% uptime on the buffs they provide.
7th is so popular right now because compared to other sets, it has a very general "take damage" requirement that has a pretty high 10% chance attached to it and no cooldown at all.
You won't find any other set that has such generous proc requirements that easily allow 100% uptime on their buffs.3 -
ArcaneBlue✭✭✭"something I used to use got nerfed so please nerf something I get killed by" may not be the greatest mentality.
as a mostly PVE player, I want "bracing" back. how I miss thee...#teamEmeric4 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Seventh or not , heavy or not, likes of you will always end up getting destroyed.
Nerf seventh? Ravager exists.
Nerf Ravager? fury exists
nerf fury? alchemist exists
Nerf alch? senche exists
we could go on like this till everbody is running hundings but then you would still complain because people can wear it heavy.
I told this so many times now. Heavy is fine. L2P.
Told ya these anti heavy armor plebs won't stop till heavy is completely useless.Power Wealth And Influence.4 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Seventh or not , heavy or not, likes of you will always end up getting destroyed.
Nerf seventh? Ravager exists.
Nerf Ravager? fury exists
nerf fury? alchemist exists
Nerf alch? senche exists
we could go on like this till everbody is running hundings but then you would still complain because people can wear it heavy.
I told this so many times now. Heavy is fine. L2P.
Told ya these anti heavy armor plebs won't stop till heavy is completely useless.
First and foremost, why must someone who chooses to share their feelings/opinions on an Internet forum be labeled as a “pleb”? It’s getting real old seeing the negativity and overall toxicity of these forums continue to develop and expand. This community is getting more and more bitter and rude by the week it seems.
And secondly... The vast majority of problems which plague ESO’s communities (PvE and PvP) would cease to exist, if ZOS would just learn from their mistakes (and those of other developers); balance the 2 aspects of the game individually. If something is overperforming from a PvP perspective, it is handled accordingly so long as the player is within a PvP environment and or situation. The same goes for PvE.11 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭7th really isn’t all that great. I certainly wouldn’t call it OP or unbalanced.3 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TrinityBreaker wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Seventh or not , heavy or not, likes of you will always end up getting destroyed.
Nerf seventh? Ravager exists.
Nerf Ravager? fury exists
nerf fury? alchemist exists
Nerf alch? senche exists
we could go on like this till everbody is running hundings but then you would still complain because people can wear it heavy.
I told this so many times now. Heavy is fine. L2P.
I pretty sure that senche' bite is a medium armor drop set and cannot come in heavy?
And I can wear it as a backbar set with jewel and SnB.1 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Seventh or not , heavy or not, likes of you will always end up getting destroyed.
Nerf seventh? Ravager exists.
Nerf Ravager? fury exists
nerf fury? alchemist exists
Nerf alch? senche exists
we could go on like this till everbody is running hundings but then you would still complain because people can wear it heavy.
I told this so many times now. Heavy is fine. L2P.
Told ya these anti heavy armor plebs won't stop till heavy is completely useless.
First and foremost, why must someone who chooses to share their feelings/opinions on an Internet forum be labeled as a “pleb”? It’s getting real old seeing the negativity and overall toxicity of these forums continue to develop and expand. This community is getting more and more bitter and rude by the week it seems.
And secondly... The vast majority of problems which plague ESO’s communities (PvE and PvP) would cease to exist, if ZOS would just learn from their mistakes (and those of other developers); balance the 2 aspects of the game individually. If something is overperforming from a PvP perspective, it is handled accordingly so long as the player is within a PvP environment and or situation. The same goes for PvE.
At this point Idc heavy armor has been nerfed multiple times even when not nessisary and people want even more nerfs.
People need 2 L2P these days.Power Wealth And Influence.7 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Gilliamtherogue wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Seventh or not , heavy or not, likes of you will always end up getting destroyed.
Nerf seventh? Ravager exists.
Nerf Ravager? fury exists
nerf fury? alchemist exists
Nerf alch? senche exists
we could go on like this till everbody is running hundings but then you would still complain because people can wear it heavy.
I told this so many times now. Heavy is fine. L2P.
Ravager has the lowest proc chance of all of the sets, and is hard limited to only proccing off "melee" damage. DoTs and channels cannot proc it aside from their first hit. This means the uptime is incredibly low.
Fury requires constant damage to reliably reach its maximum cap. The only people who can truly utilize this set to its maximum potential are zergers or groups with multiple healers that can sit in damage to ensure the max stat (25 total procs) are not constantly lost. Still arguably over performing though, would like to see it reduced to 20-25 WD per stack instead.
Alchemist is incredibly balanced due to its requirement to actively be in combat, as well as its low effective uptime. The only way to increase the uptime is to run jewelry enchants to allow potions to be consumed quicker, which incurs a large operational loss. If anything the set should be reworked so that you can proc the set without being actively in combat, with the compromise of you needing to always have at least 4 or 5 pieces of it active (it was changed to prevent people from enabling the bonus and then swapping to a completely different set while retaining the benefits.)
Senche is also balanced since it requires an active resource dump to keep up. 5 second windows with a ramping cost if used too quickly is extremely punishing for the stats it gives. Lower offensive power than any of the listed Heavy sets in question.
Heavy armor in the sense of passives are relatively balanced. The issue is that Medium is so far behind in comparison due to the amount of undodgeable skills, and the fact that an armor weight based on survivability has infinitely better offensive sets available to it. There's no reason that sets like Ravager, 7th, and Fury should exist on Heavy armor with the offensive power they enable. It's fine to have the Berserker playstyle kept intact, but it just vastly out performs medium on too many builds at the moment.
To be honest Im not even playing heavy armor dk anymore. Shuffle removal and wrath killed it for me.
I'll tell you why medium sucks. Medium is designed heavily for nbs. That is the issue. I dont have an use for the sneak passives but a nb can use all heavy passives. Even with that we still run medium now because mobility is key for a stam player. Shuffle is just too good to pass, and so is rally.
So to cut it short, this is a rework medium armor situation. Heavy passives are fine. Legion needs a limit on heal spam and truth set is literally broken op compared to everything else with proper CP distribution. Fury is a set I never liked
Its honestly a bad set unless you have a healer.
Lowering wd per crit would make it even weaker solo. They could instead reduce max wd on 5th piece a little, if a nerf is needed. But I doubt fury is a problem.
Also alch is an amazing off-bar set. Lets not ruin that for non nb players now please.Edited by Ragnarock41 on January 8, 2018 4:21AM0 -
xenowarrior92eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Darkstorne wrote: »Meanwhile in PVE land: "Can you guys buff heavy armour already!?"
buff what exactly? I find no flaws or underpower in pve...0 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Seventh or not , heavy or not, likes of you will always end up getting destroyed.
Nerf seventh? Ravager exists.
Nerf Ravager? fury exists
nerf fury? alchemist exists
Nerf alch? senche exists
we could go on like this till everbody is running hundings but then you would still complain because people can wear it heavy.
I told this so many times now. Heavy is fine. L2P.
Told ya these anti heavy armor plebs won't stop till heavy is completely useless.
First and foremost, why must someone who chooses to share their feelings/opinions on an Internet forum be labeled as a “pleb”? It’s getting real old seeing the negativity and overall toxicity of these forums continue to develop and expand. This community is getting more and more bitter and rude by the week it seems.
And secondly... The vast majority of problems which plague ESO’s communities (PvE and PvP) would cease to exist, if ZOS would just learn from their mistakes (and those of other developers); balance the 2 aspects of the game individually. If something is overperforming from a PvP perspective, it is handled accordingly so long as the player is within a PvP environment and or situation. The same goes for PvE.
At this point Idc heavy armor has been nerfed multiple times even when not nessisary and people want even more nerfs.
People need 2 L2P these days.
I’m not saying that I particularly disagree with you (except for the “pleb” comment), but rather that a lot of in-fighting within ESO’s communities could be entirely avoided. And all it takes is for ZOS’ to just balance things individually. The players have spoken up about it for years now, and ZOS still chooses to ignore said words. Add that together with the fact that it should be common sense that some things that may be fine from a PvE perspective will overperform in a PvP perspective. This is a given. So why intentionally be contrary and go against the grain, I have no idea.
It was either @ZOS_MattFiror or @ZOS_RichLambert who made comments regarding how they are adamant in providing a “seemless transition between going from PvE and PvP”, and that comment in and of itself immediately had me on red alert regarding their logic. It should’ve raised red flags for the entire player base upon hearing those words, as those given words make no sense. For starters, the impenetrable trait alone proves those words to be foolish. As going into a PvP-based environment/situation with little to no critical hit resistance is incredibly foolish (let’s ignore the exception of players who “shield stack”). Therefore players take off their: Divines, infused, etc. pieces that they wore in a PvE environment/situation, and wear impenetrable. Why? Because otherwise, you’ll get made quick work of by Damage Dealers.
There’s other examples I can use which prove the logic of “PvE and PvP transitions” to be idiotic and ignorant, but I’m certain you understand the point I’m tying to make. Under the vast majority of circumstances, attempting to balance PvE and PvP alongside each other will result in both unfavorable experiences and results. And should be avoided at all costs by a developer with any logic, and or common sense.Edited by Ch4mpTW on January 8, 2018 4:31AM2 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Darkstorne wrote: »Meanwhile in PVE land: "Can you guys buff heavy armour already!?"
comes down to the same thing time and time again - seperate pve and pvp...or add some effects to a pvp buffs that balances things1 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Everyone seems to be running heavy armor specially seventh legion now you whent and nerfed clever alchemist the set i use to use and made it basically worthless let's do the same to seventh legion and all heavy armor sets it is extremely annoying going against someone who is tanky and has good damage do to seventh legion why can't medium armor do this also medium armor sucks ass at the moment
eventually you run out of things to nerf.....Edited by wolfie1.0. on January 8, 2018 5:12AM1 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭OP, I’m going to share with you a link that was shared with me by @Rohamad_Ali in order to clear things up. I’m certain this video will make all of ZOS’ balancing decisions much more clear.https://youtu.be/e31OSVZF77w
I’ll also add this into the mix for a bonus.https://youtu.be/EitZRLt2G3w
Hopefully those 2 videos will enlighten you a bit as they did for me.
actually these are awesome....2 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ChildOfLight wrote: »Actually seventh legion is mostly used by stamDk that are not in a good spot pvp wise.
And stam wardens or anyone else that runs heavy armor it's ridiculously op no one should be able to be tanky and do high damage if you wear nothing but medium armor like i do you would understand my frustration
I´ve still yet to see a good explanation why you shouldn´t be able to do both........3 -
Blacksmoke✭✭✭✭✭No.Champion point: 645CharactersGanlian Stormian - AD - Dungeon healer - Templar - CrafterOndaril Stormian - AD - Trail DPS - SorcererShagrod gro-Bolmog - AD - PVP - Dragonknight2 -
alainjbrennanb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Everyone seems to be running heavy armor specially seventh legion now you whent and nerfed clever alchemist the set i use to use and made it basically worthless let's do the same to seventh legion and all heavy armor sets it is extremely annoying going against someone who is tanky and has good damage do to seventh legion why can't medium armor do this also medium armor sucks ass at the moment
there is things to make that armour useless, i have a battle tank that i use for pve that i do take to pvp when need by our guilds tac pvp group. I can have 40-50 greens chasing me around a rock, while i res peeps and killing them and it does not have the seven legion set as there is posion out there that can make it not that goodMain character dk - Vanikifar whitestrike0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO PvP in nutshell:
Regular PvP players - nerf clever alchemist because gankers / bombers...
Gankers after clever alchemist nerf - Nerf heavy armour because I cant kill anything now...
You see ? It is an endless vicious cycle...
That is why PvP should be balanced separately from PvE. Because the players that will feel those nerfs the most are unaware pve players who one day will woke up only to find out that their grinded / crafted golded gear was nerfed to the ground because some PvP player said so...btw. Seventh legion might be a good set but if you actually tried using it in PvP then you would know that it is not that OP as people say. Most mistake people do is they see the tooltip:
"When you take damage, you have a 10% chance to gain 500 Weapon Damage for 5 seconds and heal for 1260 Health."
And they then go (even without trying using set themselves) - so every time I get dmg I can heal for 1260 ? And get a dmg boost ? IT IS OP ! ! !
Wrong - you forgot about 10% part and often it does not proc when you need it to proc. The problem with this set is it procs when it feels like it... true - apparently it does not have an icd (internal cool - down) and technically it can proc endlessly - but it never does (I know this from experience - I was using this set since one tamriel even before it was meta...
Disclaimer - I am not defending this set because now I use completely different, more efficient set for PvP.)
Anyway - Most often in PvP I die when I got CC and I don't have stamina to break free. The healing part of this set is no that relevant. As for the dmg boost - keep in mind it lasts.. 5 sec.
As far as nerfing this set - I dont care much about it. I use different non meta sets for PvP that work better.
My concern is this: if you will nerf it - then there will be other nasty meta like crafted Julianos / Hunding's heavy. You want those to be nerfed too ? ? ?
Like I said before - PvP is a vicious cycle of nerfs that players themselves ask for.4 -
GreenhaloX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nerf heavy armor.. again.. Wtf?!! That's why it's heavy armor, man. Ha ha. Does it really matter in PvP, though. No.. it doesn't. It won't matter when you still getting wrecked within 3-4 seconds by a mob. We all get killed all the same. 7th Legion isn't even all that. It doesn't even make you anywhere near tanky. Plus, you can't use the proc when you're already wrecked. There are plenty of other heavy armor sets that would make you tanky for PvP, but even those tanky tanks also get wrecked. Although, there is these two Argonian tank (DC, I believe) brothers that goes around with the guard skill attached to each. Yeah, these two are just a pain in the ass. You will need at least 4 or 5 to take them out. Fun times going at them.. getting wrecked, respawn, press repeat, until they go away or get wrecked by a bigger group. Then, they return and press repeat. These two ***.. ha ha0 -
Azurya✭✭✭✭✭
✭Everyone seems to be running heavy armor specially seventh legion now you whent and nerfed clever alchemist the set i use to use and made it basically worthless let's do the same to seventh legion and all heavy armor sets it is extremely annoying going against someone who is tanky and has good damage do to seventh legion why can't medium armor do this also medium armor sucks ass at the moment
the argument is no argument.
guess what is coming somewhat later this year when jewelry-crafting comes home at last...............
this forum will break down,
or
maybe not, while then it is all a matter of L2P
and we all are OP then
I am waiting so much for this to happen!1 -
Jake1576✭✭✭✭✭I understand the frustration people have about you not wanting heavy armor nerfed but if that is the case then they should try to buff medium armor so it can stand a chance against heavy armor light armor players have shields they can stack for days heavy armor has great damage mitigation medium armor just sucks and needs some improvements when they nerfed proc sets and sets like clever alchemist they took a lot from what medium armor players relied on to stand a fighting chance against someone wearing heavyEdited by Jake1576 on January 8, 2018 2:16PM0
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TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I understand the frustration people have about you not want wanting heavy armor nerfed but if that is the case then they should try to buff medium armor so it can stand a chance against heavy armor light armor players have shields they can stack for days heavy armor has great damage mitigation medium armor just sucks and needs some improvements when they nerfed proc sets and sets like clever alchemist they took a lot from what medium armor players relied on to stand a fighting chance against someone wearing heavy
Now this is what you should of said in the first place. 2 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Everyone seems to be running heavy armor specially seventh legion now you whent and nerfed clever alchemist the set i use to use and made it basically worthless let's do the same to seventh legion and all heavy armor sets it is extremely annoying going against someone who is tanky and has good damage do to seventh legion why can't medium armor do this also medium armor sucks ass at the moment
the argument is no argument.
guess what is coming somewhat later this year when jewelry-crafting comes home at last...............
this forum will break down,
or
maybe not, while then it is all a matter of L2P
and we all are OP then
I am waiting so much for this to happen!
Need sauce of that jewelcraft claim of yours.....xD
RIP balance when/if it happens0 -
Azurya✭✭✭✭✭
✭.
no, we are not taking away anything anymore
and no we are not going to ask for any NERF anymore
cause it sucks, there are answers,
there is counterplay possible
the community finds ways, and we are able to use thse ways
because the "balancing" things that ZOS does, are like:
the soup is salty, lets put some more water to it,....O...
the soup is lean, let´s put some salt to it.....O....
the soup is salty............
what you end up with? with a bucket of water, but no soup!0
