pvp combat become the cat running after the mouse

charley222 · December 2017

the end is coming for me
pvp reach a levelr a level of ridicule never see in my gaming history and i play game from the 80

how the character running speed is introduce in the game is just total ridicule nothing is balance , after someone make a bit of damage the opponent start to zone and the little game cat and mouse start running around the stone and tree

, this look so broken to my eye , and i bet developer see this issue and try too fix it but nothing very good happent they just add more snares on skill Oo , my opinion is a terrible bad choice to give a base increased 20% running speed to one classs over other class for only 1 skill selection wow is just terrible the decision are made /facepalm on the top of the class is able to run invisible + but more are able to role to me invincible but also throw you some trap using Eternal Hunt set , i think is bad for the combat and balance of the game throwing anyway where some 20% or 30 % increased running speed

sometime the gameplay make me think the cat running after the mouse

sorry for my poor english but in my book for a tripleA game eso really have one of the most chaotic combat Mechanics making any sense in the end , sure for casual play is fun , but reaching the next level the core Mechanics hit a brick wall , i think after 4 year i have any more hope , yes the game have great improvement to a lot of departement but the combat is stuck having very little improvement , i just read the Monthly Combat Update – December 2017 Bookmark is about 2 to 3 year the player base say this

idk i guess is never to late to wale up

terrible combat

Waffennacht · December 2017

It takes a while to get use to PvP, takes even longer to get good

charley222 · December 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

It takes a while to get use to PvP, takes even longer to get good

is dependent what is the definition of good is lol

sorry but i dont abuse some very poor Combat Mechanics and on the top of this i never use any macro in pvp for combat

so if you call this good np i will never be good

btw i play pvp from release

ak_pvp · December 2017

Use AoEs. Use detect pots.

[Edit to remove bait]

[Edit to kek]

Ragnarock41 · December 2017

Sure, whatever.

[Edit to remove bait]

Sanctum74 · December 2017

Despite people willing to help you and give you viable working counters to all these things you repeatedly complain about in all your posts. You still believe it's macros, cheating, or exploiting an armor set or combat mechanic. That's why you keep dieing cause you refuse to learn the game and blame macros and such. And btw if someone is wearing eternal hunt set, maybe repeatedly chasing them around the tree isn't a good idea. Learn and adapt or donate AP, choice is yours!

charley222 · December 2017

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Despite people willing to help you and give you viable working counters to all these things you repeatedly complain about in all your posts. You still believe it's macros, cheating, or exploiting an armor set or combat mechanic. That's why you keep dieing cause you refuse to learn the game and blame macros and such. And btw if someone is wearing eternal hunt set, maybe repeatedly chasing them around the tree isn't a good idea. Learn and adapt or donate AP, choice is yours!

look i dont need to learn anything from you or anyone , is easy the blabla , i will just like to see you killing the nb i face
look my picture 1 combo you start your fight -21k health and i`m heavy also 41% def vs critical hit . remember1- you never hit first the nb hit first and you lost a lot of life also you have -30 Major Defile hmm this start good oh btw the nb is again on cloak next gank is coming oh your dead

Waffennacht · December 2017

I'm gonna guess you're a damage dealer, which makes you susceptible to burst.

I gather from your post your opponent was using LoS - if he's good, you aren't gonna win in this situation.

Los does make me unhappy as well, but once you learn to disengage and use it yourself in non duels, it's pretty entertaining

[Deleted User] · December 2017

Hello everyone,

Recently we've had to remove a few comments for unnecessary baiting and flaming, both being against the Forum Rules. For further posts please be sure to stay respectful and constructive to avoid any action on one's own account.

Thank you for understanding.

charley222 · December 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm gonna guess you're a damage dealer, which makes you susceptible to burst.

I gather from your post your opponent was using LoS - if he's good, you aren't gonna win in this situation.

Los does make me unhappy as well, but once you learn to disengage and use it yourself in non duels, it's pretty entertaining

got 1 back injuries so this give me a lot of time for playing
and watching everything , i just get boring to have 15% battle time and have 85% chasing time because now player gank and if they fail they are on major expedition to quite and spamming cloak also now nb use Eternal Hunt roll and throw trap .( terrible bad desing) 8 to 9 k poision trap locking you giving you any chance in hell to touch them

, for me of more flaw the time you bleed or poison or dot np are still able to cloak any other game allow this is just no sense to me ok later is ufc now peace

Pheefs · December 2017

charley222 wrote: »

the end is coming for me
...the little game cat and mouse start running around the stone and tree

this could be your problem!
you described an opponent who has designed their game play around superior maneuverability & you engaged with them in a location that greatly gave them the tactical advantage.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

maybe repeatedly chasing them around the tree isn't a good idea.

exactly... RUN AWAY!
sometimes its the answer

& sometimes uber builds will kick our butts.
we aren't always going to get the fights we like, whatever our play style

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

& I get it, an "honorable death" is ALWAYS more fun than feeling like you just got force fed a meta build

p.s. FYI "boy" & "kid" & "grow up" is kinda condescending
...try the higher ground across the board here... the view is nice & its harder to get ganked

EkojiRone · January 2018

I too hated PVP. For the same reasons. I get out there looking to have that toe to toe battle and feel like I at least stood my ground to then be ressing back to life after spotting a single person. My recommendation is look up some PVP builds. There are quite a few people who post on a regular basis not. Alcast is one person who I follow along with others. Try some new builds out in Battlegrounds. There you will have the chance to see if you can survive or at least down someone. After that apply it in WvW. One last thing I will mention, WvW is definitely a group game. Find yourself a PvP Guild and try to form up in their legions. Being with a larger group will help you be in the school of fish and have the support in case someone tries to gank you.

I hope this helps

AllPlayAndNoWork · January 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

It takes a while to get use to PvP, takes even longer to get good

I'm still trying to master the second part of that after 3 years.........

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER · January 2018

STAMINA NIGHTBLADES ARE JUST BROKEN CLASSES, INFINITE ROLL DODGES, CLOAK SPAM, ONE SHOT BURST.

AND WHEN YOU GET THEM LOW THEY JUST RUN AWAY TO ONE SHOT YOU SOME SECONDS LATER.

EkojiRone · January 2018

I have learned that this game is not like others in the sense that.. No cool downs. In ESo, you can spam whatever skills you want to. However, we have to manage our own resources (Stam, Magica) Once you figure out how to keep those up while battling someone, you will start to get it. I admit, I see that maimed lamb in the wilds and I go for the smell of blood. However, over exhausting my Stam in cases like that earns me a dead spot and a free ticket back home.

Stam Nightblades have a lovely cloak skill yes, they are very slippery. You just have to make sure you bring pots to make it so you can see through stealth. Also, chasing players isent always the good thing to do. Again, perhaps looking into some builds may help

.

ChildOfLight · January 2018

Incapacitating strike - Suprise attack is a really effective combo. Full animation cancellable so you don't always clearly see it.

My suggestion is to block or dodge roll right after Ambush, since mostly stamNBs chain them (and visual effects do not help a lot)

Wait for him to fire everything on your block and then you have the upper hand to fight back.

My honest opinion is that Surprise attack and Incap should not be animation cancellable though.
Those skills do too much damage and add too heavy debuffs to let them also be full cancellable.
Take away something from them.

VaranisArano · January 2018

Okay, I've given you advice about surviving burst attacks multiple times on threads. Seems you still have the same problems with getting burst down by nightblades. Some of that's going to come down to your opponent knowing what to do and executing their skills effectively. Some of that comes down to not adjusting your build to make yourself less vulnerable to burst.

But for anyone interested in being less vulnerable to burst, I'll give the advice again.
A. Wear Impenetrable trait gear. No sense in letting bursty builds crit you as well.
B. Get tankier. More health, more resistances, more armor - whatever your preference is. Your goal is to survive long enough to fight back. If you survive the initial hit, you have a fighting chance. After that, it'll be your skill vs your opponent's skill.
C. Use your increased tankiness to learn how to survive so you don't need to stay tanky. I trained my magDK healer with Plague Doctor until I learned how to survive and switched back to light armor with no real decrease in survivability. I'm currently learning a stam warden wearing medium fortified brass so I can survive better in my medium gear that has much less resistance but lots more damage.
D. Accept that you are still going to die a lot. Everyone dies in PVP.

Now the second part of your complaints, OP, was a clear case of Line of Sight.
Line of Sight is not broken or even a bad way to play. Its using the environment around you to dodge attacks and lure players into choke points. Line of Sight is available to ALL players, including both nightblades and the 1vXer tanks. Now, its true that Line of Sight is particularly well used by some nightblades with invisibility and cloak, but its also a favorite of players using Mist Form - available to ALL players through the Vampire skill line. Line of Sight is not unique to nightblades. You'll see it used by lots of players so its worth knowing some counters.

Counters to Line of Sighters - with or without stealth
1. Detection. Whether you use skills or detect pots, ALL players have access to abilites that can detect stealthed players
2. Situational Awareness. Line of Sight works best on opponents that get tunnel vision, so focused on killing the Line of Sighter that they aren't paying attention to where they are going. Pay attention to where they are going without following right in their footsteps. Pay attention to where you are going so they can't turn around and trap you. Pay attention to when they aren't getting hit by abilities so you aren't wasting your resources failing to hit them behind a tree.
3. Know which skills work. Bleeds, poisons, DOTs, roots, stuns, fears. Those may not be 100% effective, but they'll help with keeping up the pressure against an opponent that is dodging behind tress and rocks and thus trying to buy time where they aren't getting hit.
4. Numbers. This one is situational, because you don't always have numbers on your side. But sufficient numbers of enemy players motivated to hunt down and kill that line of sighter are going to win. The line of sighter will be all "You zerged me!" and the "zergers" will respond "Yeah, you ran and ran. If you'd stood and fought, you'd been dead much earlier. All you did is died tired."

Finally, the most important counter.
If someone has invested into their build to make themselves a champion at hitting from stealth, then running away, and running away, until they finally get to where they want to fight (but if you start winning, they'll run away and run away again until they want to fight), is it really worth wasting your time on them?

Personally, I can't stand fighting people who think its fun to run away and line of sight the moment they start losing the fight and then stick around trying to lure me into fighting them like they're totally not going to turn tail and run the moment I start winning. Its a fool's bargain. In the words of Admiral Ackbar, "Its a trap!"

The way to win is not to play. If someone's that invested in running away, I'm not too worried about their ability to kill me if I don't chase them. I'm going to have zero fun chasing them because that's their strength, not mine. I'm going to go have fun by playing to my strengths and leave them alone with no one to play with. Thus, I win.

TLDR:
You aren't going to win every fight no matter how good you are.
If you keep losing to nightblades, maybe you should work on your counters to nightblades or other burst builds.
If you can't keep up with a Line of Sighter, either adjust your play so you can deal with a line of sighter or decide that playing with a line of sighter is a trap that you can walk away from and have more fun doing something else.

Earthewen · January 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Okay, I've given you advice about surviving burst attacks multiple times on threads. Seems you still have the same problems with getting burst down by nightblades. Some of that's going to come down to your opponent knowing what to do and executing their skills effectively. Some of that comes down to not adjusting your build to make yourself less vulnerable to burst.

But for anyone interested in being less vulnerable to burst, I'll give the advice again.
A. Wear Impenetrable trait gear. No sense in letting bursty builds crit you as well.
B. Get tankier. More health, more resistances, more armor - whatever your preference is. Your goal is to survive long enough to fight back. If you survive the initial hit, you have a fighting chance. After that, it'll be your skill vs your opponent's skill.
C. Use your increased tankiness to learn how to survive so you don't need to stay tanky. I trained my magDK healer with Plague Doctor until I learned how to survive and switched back to light armor with no real decrease in survivability. I'm currently learning a stam warden wearing medium fortified brass so I can survive better in my medium gear that has much less resistance but lots more damage.
D. Accept that you are still going to die a lot. Everyone dies in PVP.

Now the second part of your complaints, OP, was a clear case of Line of Sight.
Line of Sight is not broken or even a bad way to play. Its using the environment around you to dodge attacks and lure players into choke points. Line of Sight is available to ALL players, including both nightblades and the 1vXer tanks. Now, its true that Line of Sight is particularly well used by some nightblades with invisibility and cloak, but its also a favorite of players using Mist Form - available to ALL players through the Vampire skill line. Line of Sight is not unique to nightblades. You'll see it used by lots of players so its worth knowing some counters.

Counters to Line of Sighters - with or without stealth
1. Detection. Whether you use skills or detect pots, ALL players have access to abilites that can detect stealthed players
2. Situational Awareness. Line of Sight works best on opponents that get tunnel vision, so focused on killing the Line of Sighter that they aren't paying attention to where they are going. Pay attention to where they are going without following right in their footsteps. Pay attention to where you are going so they can't turn around and trap you. Pay attention to when they aren't getting hit by abilities so you aren't wasting your resources failing to hit them behind a tree.
3. Know which skills work. Bleeds, poisons, DOTs, roots, stuns, fears. Those may not be 100% effective, but they'll help with keeping up the pressure against an opponent that is dodging behind tress and rocks and thus trying to buy time where they aren't getting hit.
4. Numbers. This one is situational, because you don't always have numbers on your side. But sufficient numbers of enemy players motivated to hunt down and kill that line of sighter are going to win. The line of sighter will be all "You zerged me!" and the "zergers" will respond "Yeah, you ran and ran. If you'd stood and fought, you'd been dead much earlier. All you did is died tired."

Finally, the most important counter.
If someone has invested into their build to make themselves a champion at hitting from stealth, then running away, and running away, until they finally get to where they want to fight (but if you start winning, they'll run away and run away again until they want to fight), is it really worth wasting your time on them?

Personally, I can't stand fighting people who think its fun to run away and line of sight the moment they start losing the fight and then stick around trying to lure me into fighting them like they're totally not going to turn tail and run the moment I start winning. Its a fool's bargain. In the words of Admiral Ackbar, "Its a trap!"

The way to win is not to play. If someone's that invested in running away, I'm not too worried about their ability to kill me if I don't chase them. I'm going to have zero fun chasing them because that's their strength, not mine. I'm going to go have fun by playing to my strengths and leave them alone with no one to play with. Thus, I win.

TLDR:
You aren't going to win every fight no matter how good you are.
If you keep losing to nightblades, maybe you should work on your counters to nightblades or other burst builds.
If you can't keep up with a Line of Sighter, either adjust your play so you can deal with a line of sighter or decide that playing with a line of sighter is a trap that you can walk away from and have more fun doing something else.

Hey there @charley222, I'm a lurker most of the time in the forums, but I agree with you that there are exploiters and macro-ers in the game. It does happen for sure. However, it isn't always the macro-er that kills us. There are no easy answers that can be given here for the multiple facets that occur during combat with these players. For competitive players, it's hard to run away from those kinds of fights. The urge to continue fighting is strong. Remember that those who run away from you are running because they can't stand toe-to-toe with you. That means your doing something right perhaps. But know on the outset that there are no hard and fast solutions to the ease that a stealthy nightblade has in facing you in 1v1 combat. They are built for this specifically. No one can really tell you what is happening on your screen and how to counter it but you.