CP thread

bigelle.x3_ESO · January 2018

Is it too late to completely overhaul the CP system? Maybe even remove the CP system with some compensation for time invested? If you're low CP:

- You have a tedious grind ahead. Hundreds of hours to just be on an even footing with passives.

- It is extremely unfriendly to new players. Veterans of this game already have a mechanical skill advantage, knowledge advantage, gear advantage. How much more *** can we pile on the newbies?

- Cannot compete in cyrodiil. At best you can pray for a horde of people on your team so you can tag along and "contribute" with 1 spam and hope that maybe that high level keeps his eyes on your buddies and not one shot you.

- Definitely cannot compete in battlegrounds. A structured pvp mode where you can't rely on sheer overwhelming numbers? You are even more screwed. Good luck trying to get past that infinite block or trying to survive an onslaught from someone that passively deals exponential more damage.

- Can't do meaningful pve. Even with the best minmaxed gear possible, good luck trying to get into any high level pve content without all those passive stats. Doing dungeons is a gamble. Will that one dude leave because your CP sucks? Probably.

In short, CP is bad. We should get rid of it.

Uviryth · January 2018

And what would you suggest as replacement for horizontal progression?
Its either something like CP or an armorprogression-system where you can basically throw your armor in the dumpster each time better equipment gets introduced.

And please dont answer with "nothing, I play for the funsies". If that where true you wouldnt complain either way.

Ladislao · January 2018

Uviryth wrote: »

And what would you suggest as replacement for horizontal progression?
Its either something like CP or an armorprogression-system where you can basically throw your armor in the dumpster each time better equipment gets introduced.

And please dont answer with "nothing, I play for the funsies". If that where true you wouldnt complain either way.

This is a troll post. Do not pay attention.

BladedMischief · January 2018

Personally, I see nothing wrong with CP. It gives us a goal to work towards, along with the story of course. It also gives you benefits, so what's to complain about?
Also, I've ran dungeons with CP50s and CP500. There's no "Your CP sucks"
If you think your CP sucks, then level, get advice on where to put the points.

Honestly, I don't really see the issue with CP.

Checkmath · January 2018

the cp system is bothering the devs for a long time now, thats why they try to balance it with every patch and thats why they wont remove it. too much time was invested in that system and they dont have something to replace it.
At least they tailored them, so you gain more benefits from a few cp's set into a tree than many cp's.
Actually it isnt a bad way to honor the time invested for veteran players. most new players from morrowind already sit at 400+ cp's and with that most difference to veterans are already closed. also new players can still be motivated by that fact, since they can have a goal to achieve the cp cap.
you are at a disadvantage with low cp, still if you learn your stuff, you can tank vet trials with 200cp's, you can get good dps parses with 300 cp's, so i dont think there is that much problem with that.
if you feel overwhelmed in battlegrounds, then avoid them or play in a premade group to achieve good results (actually battlegrounds are terrible for new players anyway, since you always got a premade group as an opponent team). if you feel underpowered in cyrodiil, play in a non-cp campaign till you feel you will do well in a cp campaign.
in my opinion, the cp system isnt that bad for new players. right, it isnt the system everyone wishes for, but atm, we have to deal with it till ZOS thinks of something better.

bigelle.x3_ESO · January 2018

Uviryth wrote: »

And what would you suggest as replacement for horizontal progression?
Its either something like CP or an armorprogression-system where you can basically throw your armor in the dumpster each time better equipment gets introduced.

And please dont answer with "nothing, I play for the funsies". If that where true you wouldnt complain either way.

cosmetics? crowns? auras? weapon skins? armor skins? dyes? mounts? titles? costumes? capes? recipes? mount training? gold? those things where you can skip a day when doing the insanely long crafting researches?

bigelle.x3_ESO · January 2018

BladedMischief wrote: »

so what's to complain about?

- You have a tedious grind ahead. Hundreds of hours to just be on an even footing with passives.

- It is extremely unfriendly to new players. Veterans of this game already have a mechanical skill advantage, knowledge advantage, gear advantage. How much more *** can we pile on the newbies?

- Cannot compete in cyrodiil. At best you can pray for a horde of people on your team so you can tag along and "contribute" with 1 spam and hope that maybe that high level keeps his eyes on your buddies and not one shot you.

- Definitely cannot compete in battlegrounds. A structured pvp mode where you can't rely on sheer overwhelming numbers? You are even more screwed. Good luck trying to get past that infinite block or trying to survive an onslaught from someone that passively deals exponential more damage.

- Can't do meaningful pve. Even with the best minmaxed gear possible, good luck trying to get into any high level pve content without all those passive stats. Doing dungeons is a gamble. Will that one dude leave because your CP sucks? Probably.

Checkmath · January 2018

look up and read why it isnt that bad and why it wont get removed soon.

Drazkyth · January 2018

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

Is it too late to completely overhaul the CP system? Maybe even remove the CP system with some compensation for time invested? If you're low CP:

- You have a tedious grind ahead. Hundreds of hours to just be on an even footing with passives.

- It is extremely unfriendly to new players. Veterans of this game already have a mechanical skill advantage, knowledge advantage, gear advantage. How much more *** can we pile on the newbies?

- Cannot compete in cyrodiil. At best you can pray for a horde of people on your team so you can tag along and "contribute" with 1 spam and hope that maybe that high level keeps his eyes on your buddies and not one shot you.

- Definitely cannot compete in battlegrounds. A structured pvp mode where you can't rely on sheer overwhelming numbers? You are even more screwed. Good luck trying to get past that infinite block or trying to survive an onslaught from someone that passively deals exponential more damage.

- Can't do meaningful pve. Even with the best minmaxed gear possible, good luck trying to get into any high level pve content without all those passive stats. Doing dungeons is a gamble. Will that one dude leave because your CP sucks? Probably.

In short, CP is bad. We should get rid of it.

Utter nonsense. I've seen plenty of people with less than 500 CP's outdo those at 690 and above in both pve and pvp. CP's are a bonus, yes. However some things are far more important such as your own build and rotation. Getting another 30, 50 or 100 CP's won't automatically make you far superior to what you were or indeed better than others simply because you have more CP.

Also why shouldn't those that have played for 4-5 years have an advantage over someone who's played for 4-5 days? Your whole post just screams "I'm too lazy and have a sense of entitlement so remove CP's cus' I CBA."

TheCyberDruid · January 2018

Er... you are so focussed on PVP (and yes you really suck in PVP until you have high CP) that you ignore that you can easily get to CP 250-300 with just the PVE content that the game offers. Granted crafting takes very long to max everything, but then again it's just one aspect of the game.

Bam_Bam · January 2018

Drazkyth wrote: »

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

Is it too late to completely overhaul the CP system? Maybe even remove the CP system with some compensation for time invested? If you're low CP:

- You have a tedious grind ahead. Hundreds of hours to just be on an even footing with passives.

- It is extremely unfriendly to new players. Veterans of this game already have a mechanical skill advantage, knowledge advantage, gear advantage. How much more *** can we pile on the newbies?

- Cannot compete in cyrodiil. At best you can pray for a horde of people on your team so you can tag along and "contribute" with 1 spam and hope that maybe that high level keeps his eyes on your buddies and not one shot you.

- Definitely cannot compete in battlegrounds. A structured pvp mode where you can't rely on sheer overwhelming numbers? You are even more screwed. Good luck trying to get past that infinite block or trying to survive an onslaught from someone that passively deals exponential more damage.

- Can't do meaningful pve. Even with the best minmaxed gear possible, good luck trying to get into any high level pve content without all those passive stats. Doing dungeons is a gamble. Will that one dude leave because your CP sucks? Probably.

In short, CP is bad. We should get rid of it.

Utter nonsense. I've seen plenty of people with less than 500 CP's outdo those at 690 and above in both pve and pvp. CP's are a bonus, yes. However some things are far more important such as your own build and rotation. Getting another 30, 50 or 100 CP's won't automatically make you far superior to what you were or indeed better than others simply because you have more CP.

Also why shouldn't those that have played for 4-5 years have an advantage over someone who's played for 4-5 days? Your whole post just screams "I'm too lazy and have a sense of entitlement so remove CP's cus' I CBA."

THIS.

BladedMischief · January 2018

I did read your post. No need to repost it.

Just level up. Just play as normal and you'll hit CP. Then keep levelling. Find a guild to play with. Find a guild that will take you through dungeons.
And just don't try Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds until you're ready. They're not compulsory things to play through.

With all due respect, CP is fine. It's a progression system. I get it, the grind is annoying and tedious. But there's really nothing wrong with it.

redTechInc · January 2018

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

Is it too late to completely overhaul the CP system? Maybe even remove the CP system with some compensation for time invested? If you're low CP:

[...]

In short, CP is bad. We should get rid of it.

thanks for the laugh man! CP system isn't any good, and has never been imo but not for the reason how disadvantaged newbies may be.

bigelle.x3_ESO · January 2018

Drazkyth wrote: »

Utter nonsense. I've seen plenty of people with less than 500 CP's outdo those at 690 and above in both pve and pvp. CP's are a bonus, yes. However some things are far more important such as your own build and rotation. Getting another 30, 50 or 100 CP's won't automatically make you far superior to what you were or indeed better than others simply because you have more CP.

certain builds aren't possible without CP. that makes CP more than just a "bonus".

Drazkyth wrote: »

Also why shouldn't those that have played for 4-5 years have an advantage over someone who's played for 4-5 days? Your whole post just screams "I'm too lazy and have a sense of entitlement so remove CP's cus' I CBA."

Strawman. Not once did I say veterans should not get an advantage.
Ad hominem. surprisingly i'm actually not that lazy. farmed tirelessly for them gears, potions, enchantments only to realize that it's all for nothing unless i spend another few hundred hours getting CP.

bigelle.x3_ESO · January 2018

TheCyberDruid wrote: »

Er... you are so focussed on PVP (and yes you really suck in PVP until you have high CP) that you ignore that you can easily get to CP 250-300 with just the PVE content that the game offers. Granted crafting takes very long to max everything, but then again it's just one aspect of the game.

A CP 250-300 can't do poopers in pvp.

Drazkyth · January 2018

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

Drazkyth wrote: »

Utter nonsense. I've seen plenty of people with less than 500 CP's outdo those at 690 and above in both pve and pvp. CP's are a bonus, yes. However some things are far more important such as your own build and rotation. Getting another 30, 50 or 100 CP's won't automatically make you far superior to what you were or indeed better than others simply because you have more CP.

certain builds aren't possible without CP. that makes CP more than just a "bonus".

Drazkyth wrote: »

Also why shouldn't those that have played for 4-5 years have an advantage over someone who's played for 4-5 days? Your whole post just screams "I'm too lazy and have a sense of entitlement so remove CP's cus' I CBA."

Strawman. Not once did I say veterans should not get an advantage.
Ad hominem. surprisingly i'm actually not that lazy. farmed tirelessly for them gears, potions, enchantments only to realize that it's all for nothing unless i spend another few hundred hours getting CP.

Refer to the bottom part of my signature.

bigelle.x3_ESO · January 2018

The default response of someone with nothing to say. It's ok.

Carraig · January 2018

Question for the OP;

Do you have an alternative for the CP system? I mean, we all can complain, not many can come with alternatives but maybe you can surprise us.

How about the vertical system like the old Veteran Level system we had before the CP system? After level 50, every toon had to be grinded through 16 levels of 800,000 XP (and even 1,000,000 points per level at the introduction), with the need to get new gear almost every level?

No thanks. The CP system may not be perfect, but it's a good enough system until the devs figure out a new one.

drkfrontiers · January 2018

BladedMischief wrote: »

Personally, I see nothing wrong with CP. It gives us a goal to work towards, along with the story of course. It also gives you benefits, so what's to complain about?
Also, I've ran dungeons with CP50s and CP500. There's no "Your CP sucks"
If you think your CP sucks, then level, get advice on where to put the points.

Honestly, I don't really see the issue with CP.

I got kicked from Imperial Sewers twice only yesterday because I was not CP. And we had not even started. I was literally kicked at the spawn.

And zone chat is major repudiation of this opinion.

EVERY SINGLE call for vet dungeons is "looking for DD CP600+ only!" "Need healer CP600 no noobs!" all the time.

BladedMischief wrote: »

It also gives you benefits, so what's to complain about?

Not having them?! And because you don't have the "required CP" you are immediately deemed a liability, which the whole CP is predicated on.

bigelle.x3_ESO · January 2018

Carraig wrote: »

Question for the OP;

Do you have an alternative for the CP system? I mean, we all can complain, not many can come with alternatives, but maybe you can surprise us.

How about the vertical system like the old Veteran Level system we had before the C? Every toon had to be grinded through 16 levels of 800,000 XP (and even 1,000,000 points per level at the introduction), needing to get new gear almost every level?

No thanks. The CP system may not be perfect, but it's a good enough system until the devs figure out a new one.

Why does there need to be an alternative? What is wrong with just playing content for the content rewards? Why does there need to be passive stat inflation that throws balance out of wack?

If there really needs to be an alternative I'd propose something that first and foremost doesn't do what the CP system does wrong, ie widen the gap between veterans and newer/casual players, make balance difficult, creates silly builds, promotes unnecessary and tedious grind, etc. Probably something cosmetic and title based. Maybe getting 50,000,000 exp dual wielding daggers grants a glowing dagger skin. Maybe you can customize an emblem on it. Maybe you can dye it. Maybe you can get a crown, or a cape or a new title, or something else that glows.

BladedMischief · January 2018

That's the group issue. Not a CP issue.

SHADOW2KK · January 2018

LOL wut OP?

CP has never been easier to get, you would have loved the old Vet 16 days, that was a grind doing it on numerous characters.

Now ZoS bends over backwards to help low level CP peeps to get them.

Aisle9 · January 2018

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

BladedMischief wrote: »

so what's to complain about?

- You have a tedious grind ahead. Hundreds of hours to just be on an even footing with passives.

- It is extremely unfriendly to new players. Veterans of this game already have a mechanical skill advantage, knowledge advantage, gear advantage. How much more *** can we pile on the newbies?

- Cannot compete in cyrodiil. At best you can pray for a horde of people on your team so you can tag along and "contribute" with 1 spam and hope that maybe that high level keeps his eyes on your buddies and not one shot you.

- Definitely cannot compete in battlegrounds. A structured pvp mode where you can't rely on sheer overwhelming numbers? You are even more screwed. Good luck trying to get past that infinite block or trying to survive an onslaught from someone that passively deals exponential more damage.

- Can't do meaningful pve. Even with the best minmaxed gear possible, good luck trying to get into any high level pve content without all those passive stats. Doing dungeons is a gamble. Will that one dude leave because your CP sucks? Probably.

PvP:
- Sotha Sil is a no-CP campaign.
- Are BGs not non-CP anymore ? They used to.
- Situational awareness is worth more than 1k CP in Cyro.
- Despite having 750 CP I play in Sotha Sil and have meaningful PvP (no-CP campaign). Even 1vX on occasion.

PvE:
- 300 CP and purple gear, including regular purple weapons from a crafted set with purple glyphs, is more than enough to achieve 25k dps on a target skeleton, self-buffed, which will go up to 30 - 32k with raid buffs (SPC, Combat Prayer, Warhorn). I have video evidence of that, can upload if needed. Even better, I'm no top tier player with a 2k $ gaming rig, I play on a laptop with an average of 20 FPS, and 130 ms ping, better players than me can probably go even higher. 25k is what you need to rotflstomp every veteran dungeon (in hard mode) in the game, provided you know the mechanics. 25k dps is also enough for veteran Craglorn trials for most casual raiding guilds.
- 300 CP with catch up mechanics, training gear, a friend and optional ambrosia/xp scrolls can be achieved in less than a week just by doing story missions/Caldwell silver and gold/normal dungeons. You don't even need to grind. On top of that there are seasonal events with free xp boosts.
- Every game is unfriendly to people unaccustomed to it, it's called being new to the game, CP have nothing to do with it. You get better with practice.

All your points are factually inaccurate.

Uviryth · January 2018

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

Uviryth wrote: »

And what would you suggest as replacement for horizontal progression?
Its either something like CP or an armorprogression-system where you can basically throw your armor in the dumpster each time better equipment gets introduced.

And please dont answer with "nothing, I play for the funsies". If that where true you wouldnt complain either way.

cosmetics? crowns? auras? weapon skins? armor skins? dyes? mounts? titles? costumes? capes? recipes? mount training? gold? those things where you can skip a day when doing the insanely long crafting researches?

Thats fluff, mmorpgs dont fare well when fluff is the only reward for playing them.

Characters in mmorpgs have to always get stronger, its one of the main features of this genre.

I like the CP-system way more than the system with levelcapraise and armor-replace.
I LOVE that the Hundings Rageset I crafted in 2015 is still valuable today.

The CP-System is one of the major features of this game that makes me want to play it over other mmorpgs. Without it I dont know if Id still be playing.

Oh, and btw. I´m only at 305CP, so I´m not saying that from a 690-perspective.

Grabmoore · January 2018

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

The default response of someone with nothing to say. It's ok.

Ad hominem, because they did it to you first? Not the way to go.

Your suggestion is not very comprehensive. There are no cp campaigns and no cp battlegrounds (low level). Also, you don't need CP for a good build. Heck, people did run vMA naked or without cp.

Just play the game. No need to grind, no need to rush. Last but not least, my favorite argument: You weren't here when we needed 16 vet levels in each character after Level 50. That was a grind. Nowadays you are ready for endgame within 6 months. You can do everything!

TheCyberDruid · January 2018

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

A CP 250-300 can't do poopers in pvp.

Maybe your problem is not CP related then. Just maybe.

bigelle.x3_ESO · January 2018

Uviryth wrote: »

Characters in mmorpgs have to always get stronger, its one of the main features of this genre.

How does a 690 CP char get stronger? Everything has a cap and removing CP is simply lowering it while at the same time removing the possibility of wacky builds, tedious grind, and disheartened newcomers.

Uviryth · January 2018

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

Uviryth wrote: »

Characters in mmorpgs have to always get stronger, its one of the main features of this genre.

How does a 690 CP char get stronger? Everything has a cap and removing CP is simply lowering it while at the same time removing the possibility of wacky builds, tedious grind, and disheartened newcomers.

He doesnt, a ceiling is also part of the equation. There needs to be a goal.
A player who is at that level is the one you can target with fluff like dyes and stuff.

bigelle.x3_ESO · January 2018

Aisle9 wrote: »

PvP:
- Sotha Sil is a no-CP campaign.
- Are BGs not non-CP anymore ? They used to.
- Situational awareness is worth more than 1k CP in Cyro.
- Despite having 750 CP I play in Sotha Sil and have meaningful PvP (no-CP campaign). Even 1vX on occasion.

The population disparity is noticeable when playing CP campaigns vs non CP. Battlegrounds used to be non-CP. Now they are CP and terrible. What was the catalyst for that i wonder? And nah I'd rather take a max CP fully geared idiot over a 0 CP professional MLG eso pvper.

Aisle9 wrote: »

PvE:
- 300 CP and purple gear is more than enough to achieve 25k dps on a target skeleton, self-buffed, which will go up to 30 - 32k with raid buffs (SPC, Combat Prayer, Warhorn). I have video evidence of that, can upload if needed. 300 CP with catch up mechanics, training gear, ambrosia/xp scrolls can be achieved in less than a week just by doing story missions/Caldwell silver and gold. You don't even need to grind. Even better, I'm no top tier player with a 2k $ gaming rig, I play on a laptop with an average of 20 FPS, and 130 ms ping, better players than me can probably go even higher.

What is possible is often quite different from what actually happens in reality. How many low CP players do you think get invited to high level pve content over high CP players? Do you really think DPS on a dummy will translate to the actual dungeon when you have to move around, dodge attacks, play defensively, etc?

Carraig · January 2018

Uviryth wrote: »

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

Uviryth wrote: »

Characters in mmorpgs have to always get stronger, its one of the main features of this genre.

How does a 690 CP char get stronger? Everything has a cap and removing CP is simply lowering it while at the same time removing the possibility of wacky builds, tedious grind, and disheartened newcomers.

He doesnt, a ceiling is also part of the equation. There needs to be a goal.
A player who is at that level is the one you can target with fluff like dyes and stuff.

And how about trying a CP build and change when you don't like it? I'm sure things can be won there and it's only a mere 3000 gold to respec.

bigelle.x3_ESO · January 2018

Uviryth wrote: »

He doesnt, a ceiling is also part of the equation. There needs to be a goal.
A player who is at that level is the one you can target with fluff like dyes and stuff.

Without CP, max level is the goal... like every other MMO out there.