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Battlegrounds - a tragedy of bad decisions
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Anethum✭✭✭✭“Hey BGs?”
“Are there any groups on to fight?”
“Yeah some aussies are staying up past their bedtime”
“Awesome”
And then we try to queue against the other premades, which sometimes is easy and sometimes is hard depending on how interested that group is in fighting us.
Ecology as it is, smart way, respect@Anethum from .ua0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I still don't understand way so many (or at least so many ppl on the forum) are so against cp pvp.
Because it's so much easier for well-built, experienced players to kill weaker, less experienced players in No-CP. A CP690 PvE player may not have much experience in PvP, but he knows how to read build guides (including CP allocations!) and grind for gear. That CP690 "carebear" can easily obtain some kind of super tanky survival build and make himself a real nuisance to impatient PvPers when CP is enabled. He may not be getting a lot of kills himself, but at least he doesn't feel like he's getting stomped on.
Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Experienced, well organized PvPers already have enormous advantages that carry over into Battlegrounds, so I don't see any problem with weaker players, PUGs and carebears adopting builds that frustrate them. I say make them work for their kills!
Edited by Emma_Overload on January 1, 2018 4:25PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »I still don't understand way so many (or at least so many ppl on the forum) are so against cp pvp.
Because it's so much easier for well-built, experienced players to kill weaker, less experienced players in No-CP. A CP690 PvE player may not have much experience in PvP, but he knows how to read build guides (including CP allocations!) and grind for gear. That CP690 "carebear" can easily obtain some kind of super tanky survival build and make himself a real nuisance to impatient PvPers when CP is enabled. He may not be getting a lot of kills himself, but at least he doesn't feel like he's getting stomped on.
Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Experienced, well organized PvPers already have enormous advantages that carry over into Battlegrounds, so I don't see any problem with weaker players, PUGs and carebears adopting builds that frustrate them. I say make them work for their kills!
And I say playing a Deathmatch where there’s 5 kills in 8 minutes before people start leaving the match is horrendous gameplay.
CP allows broken permablock and healbot builds to exist. It also allows the current OP Heavy Armor Stam builds to play. All while this happens, players who aren’t CP690 get destroyed by max level people with zero chance of success, which isolates a large amount of players right from the start. Pre-mades are more frequent too.
No-CP PvP puts people on as much of an even playing field as possible for the current state of the game. There is no CP to cover for the weaknesses of your build. Skill has to account for that and broken builds that can tank a group and still dish out high damage don’t exist. I don’t need my 900+ CP to 1vX, I just need my skill and improvements as a player to actually mean something instead of fighting a near-invincible BG tank that sits on the flag.
Skill >>> CP/Gear/Builds in No-CP.
I’ve stopped playing BGs because if I want toxic gameplay full of broken builds then I’d rather go 1vX in Cyrodiil. BGs used to be fun, competitve PvP, but not anymore
4 -
Zer0oo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Overload wrote: »I still don't understand way so many (or at least so many ppl on the forum) are so against cp pvp.
Because it's so much easier for well-built, experienced players to kill weaker, less experienced players in No-CP. A CP690 PvE player may not have much experience in PvP, but he knows how to read build guides (including CP allocations!) and grind for gear. That CP690 "carebear" can easily obtain some kind of super tanky survival build and make himself a real nuisance to impatient PvPers when CP is enabled. He may not be getting a lot of kills himself, but at least he doesn't feel like he's getting stomped on.
Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Experienced, well organized PvPers already have enormous advantages that carry over into Battlegrounds, so I don't see any problem with weaker players, PUGs and carebears adopting builds that frustrate them. I say make them work for their kills!
And I say playing a Deathmatch where there’s 5 kills in 8 minutes before people start leaving the match is horrendous gameplay.
CP allows broken permablock and healbot builds to exist. It also allows the current OP Heavy Armor Stam builds to play. All while this happens, players who aren’t CP690 get destroyed by max level people with zero chance of success, which isolates a large amount of players right from the start. Pre-mades are more frequent too.
No-CP PvP puts people on as much of an even playing field as possible for the current state of the game. There is no CP to cover for the weaknesses of your build. Skill has to account for that and broken builds that can tank a group and still dish out high damage don’t exist. I don’t need my 900+ CP to 1vX, I just need my skill and improvements as a player to actually mean something instead of fighting a near-invincible BG tank that sits on the flag.
Skill >>> CP/Gear/Builds in No-CP.
I’ve stopped playing BGs because if I want toxic gameplay full of broken builds then I’d rather go 1vX in Cyrodiil. BGs used to be fun, competitve PvP, but not anymore
I disagree completely with the cp arguments.
Heal bots, permblockers and extrem tanky dps builds did also exist in no cp and were already quite popular in no-cp bg. People highly exaggerate what cp enable someone to do now after morrowind and how much you have to change to make a cp build work in no cp.
A low cp person will most likely so or so be getting destroyed because he will not be as experienced as another player who had played the game for a long time and got cp that way. If you don't know how to pvp then cp will not save you. Still i would prefer if battle leveling included cp so everyone has the same chances and does not have an addition disadvantage to his lack of experience.
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »I still don't understand way so many (or at least so many ppl on the forum) are so against cp pvp.
Because it's so much easier for well-built, experienced players to kill weaker, less experienced players in No-CP. A CP690 PvE player may not have much experience in PvP, but he knows how to read build guides (including CP allocations!) and grind for gear. That CP690 "carebear" can easily obtain some kind of super tanky survival build and make himself a real nuisance to impatient PvPers when CP is enabled. He may not be getting a lot of kills himself, but at least he doesn't feel like he's getting stomped on.
Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Experienced, well organized PvPers already have enormous advantages that carry over into Battlegrounds, so I don't see any problem with weaker players, PUGs and carebears adopting builds that frustrate them. I say make them work for their kills!
And I say playing a Deathmatch where there’s 5 kills in 8 minutes before people start leaving the match is horrendous gameplay.
CP allows broken permablock and healbot builds to exist. It also allows the current OP Heavy Armor Stam builds to play. All while this happens, players who aren’t CP690 get destroyed by max level people with zero chance of success, which isolates a large amount of players right from the start. Pre-mades are more frequent too.
No-CP PvP puts people on as much of an even playing field as possible for the current state of the game. There is no CP to cover for the weaknesses of your build. Skill has to account for that and broken builds that can tank a group and still dish out high damage don’t exist. I don’t need my 900+ CP to 1vX, I just need my skill and improvements as a player to actually mean something instead of fighting a near-invincible BG tank that sits on the flag.
Skill >>> CP/Gear/Builds in No-CP.
I’ve stopped playing BGs because if I want toxic gameplay full of broken builds then I’d rather go 1vX in Cyrodiil. BGs used to be fun, competitve PvP, but not anymore
I disagree completely with the cp arguments.
Heal bots, permblockers and extrem tanky dps builds did also exist in no cp and were already quite popular in no-cp bg. People highly exaggerate what cp enable someone to do now after morrowind and how much you have to change to make a cp build work in no cp.
A low cp person will most likely so or so be getting destroyed because he will not be as experienced as another player who had played the game for a long time and got cp that way. If you don't know how to pvp then cp will not save you. Still i would prefer if battle leveling included cp so everyone has the same chances and does not have an addition disadvantage to his lack of experience.
Nope. You can’t create a true permablock or healbot in no-CP. Also if you invest in it you will have nearly zero damage output as well. It’s completely different with 690CP to buff your build.
CP makes an absolutely massive difference. Until you have 300CP you won’t even get max stats, and until 360CP those 120-point passives aren’t available at all. Generally, any player below 500-600CP is screwed since CPs do in fact provide direct buffs to every aspect of your character. Why make success completely impossible for low-CP players? High CP players should already have the gameplay experience to beat lower CP players. It’s just not competitve gameplay at all. What CP does is force encounters to be dependent on CP and oftentimes skill-less supertank/instaburst gameplay. Fine in Cyrodiil with large group gameplay but definitely not in BGs.
Either way you won’t change
That’s fine. You have your own views and obviously we’ll disagree. I can’t tell you what to like in this game, but BGs are doing worse nowadays population-wise with CP than they did with no CP, and the experience on nearly all players was more positive. 3 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »I still don't understand way so many (or at least so many ppl on the forum) are so against cp pvp.
Because it's so much easier for well-built, experienced players to kill weaker, less experienced players in No-CP. A CP690 PvE player may not have much experience in PvP, but he knows how to read build guides (including CP allocations!) and grind for gear. That CP690 "carebear" can easily obtain some kind of super tanky survival build and make himself a real nuisance to impatient PvPers when CP is enabled. He may not be getting a lot of kills himself, but at least he doesn't feel like he's getting stomped on.
Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Experienced, well organized PvPers already have enormous advantages that carry over into Battlegrounds, so I don't see any problem with weaker players, PUGs and carebears adopting builds that frustrate them. I say make them work for their kills!
And I say playing a Deathmatch where there’s 5 kills in 8 minutes before people start leaving the match is horrendous gameplay.
CP allows broken permablock and healbot builds to exist. It also allows the current OP Heavy Armor Stam builds to play. All while this happens, players who aren’t CP690 get destroyed by max level people with zero chance of success, which isolates a large amount of players right from the start. Pre-mades are more frequent too.
No-CP PvP puts people on as much of an even playing field as possible for the current state of the game. There is no CP to cover for the weaknesses of your build. Skill has to account for that and broken builds that can tank a group and still dish out high damage don’t exist. I don’t need my 900+ CP to 1vX, I just need my skill and improvements as a player to actually mean something instead of fighting a near-invincible BG tank that sits on the flag.
Skill >>> CP/Gear/Builds in No-CP.
I’ve stopped playing BGs because if I want toxic gameplay full of broken builds then I’d rather go 1vX in Cyrodiil. BGs used to be fun, competitve PvP, but not anymore
I disagree completely with the cp arguments.
Heal bots, permblockers and extrem tanky dps builds did also exist in no cp and were already quite popular in no-cp bg. People highly exaggerate what cp enable someone to do now after morrowind and how much you have to change to make a cp build work in no cp.
A low cp person will most likely so or so be getting destroyed because he will not be as experienced as another player who had played the game for a long time and got cp that way. If you don't know how to pvp then cp will not save you. Still i would prefer if battle leveling included cp so everyone has the same chances and does not have an addition disadvantage to his lack of experience.
If a Low CP opponent will get destroyed because of his lack of experience, what reason is there to add CP difference to compound his losing? You actually make an argument for CP removal in BGs in your comment.5 -
Kiara✭✭✭Given the current situation, ZOS can still significantly improve the experience and playerbase size. Need to follow simple three steps:
1. Balance builds again..... meaning remove CP. Also allows lower CP players to play BGs again which they no longer can. That’s an entire population of players no longer able to enjoy BGs, all while buffing premade groups to steamroll pugs and allowing permablock/OP builds to play
2. Add Battlegrounds to the base game. You increase the population by a lot this way alone. Much healthier overall for the game.
3. Allow players to pick from three game modes:
• Deathmatch
• Flag (Domination, Crazy King)
• Relic (Relic Hunter, Chaosball)
The ability to play what you want in these catagories (alongside the much larger population) allows you to also work toward earning the *titles* you want. Rn getting certain titles like the Chaos titles or Standard-Guardian takes FOREVER.
Done.
This. If they add BG to base game there will be bigger population to separate cp and non cp thus making it way more balanced.0 -
killimandrosb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
You can argue about that all alone if you want, and I am sad you believe that is true, because it isnt. Theres no way you can make a build as tanky without CP as withy cp. If you believe that I suggest you actually read the tooltip on some of the defensive CP points. But continue, in a month youll be playing with a base below 30 players EU wide, instead of like before a competitive scene where all players from 160-689 CP could compete. If you dont realize someone below cp 690 will shud away from BG's then its already a lost cause.
I disagree completely with the cp arguments.
Heal bots, permblockers and extrem tanky dps builds did also exist in no cp and were already quite popular in no-cp bg. People highly exaggerate what cp enable someone to do now after morrowind and how much you have to change to make a cp build work in no cp.
A low cp person will most likely so or so be getting destroyed because he will not be as experienced as another player who had played the game for a long time and got cp that way. If you don't know how to pvp then cp will not save you. Still i would prefer if battle leveling included cp so everyone has the same chances and does not have an addition disadvantage to his lack of experience.
4 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »I still don't understand way so many (or at least so many ppl on the forum) are so against cp pvp.
Because it's so much easier for well-built, experienced players to kill weaker, less experienced players in No-CP. A CP690 PvE player may not have much experience in PvP, but he knows how to read build guides (including CP allocations!) and grind for gear. That CP690 "carebear" can easily obtain some kind of super tanky survival build and make himself a real nuisance to impatient PvPers when CP is enabled. He may not be getting a lot of kills himself, but at least he doesn't feel like he's getting stomped on.
Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Experienced, well organized PvPers already have enormous advantages that carry over into Battlegrounds, so I don't see any problem with weaker players, PUGs and carebears adopting builds that frustrate them. I say make them work for their kills!
And I say playing a Deathmatch where there’s 5 kills in 8 minutes before people start leaving the match is horrendous gameplay.
CP allows broken permablock and healbot builds to exist. It also allows the current OP Heavy Armor Stam builds to play. All while this happens, players who aren’t CP690 get destroyed by max level people with zero chance of success, which isolates a large amount of players right from the start. Pre-mades are more frequent too.
No-CP PvP puts people on as much of an even playing field as possible for the current state of the game. There is no CP to cover for the weaknesses of your build. Skill has to account for that and broken builds that can tank a group and still dish out high damage don’t exist. I don’t need my 900+ CP to 1vX, I just need my skill and improvements as a player to actually mean something instead of fighting a near-invincible BG tank that sits on the flag.
Skill >>> CP/Gear/Builds in No-CP.
I’ve stopped playing BGs because if I want toxic gameplay full of broken builds then I’d rather go 1vX in Cyrodiil. BGs used to be fun, competitve PvP, but not anymore
I disagree completely with the cp arguments.
Heal bots, permblockers and extrem tanky dps builds did also exist in no cp and were already quite popular in no-cp bg. People highly exaggerate what cp enable someone to do now after morrowind and how much you have to change to make a cp build work in no cp.
A low cp person will most likely so or so be getting destroyed because he will not be as experienced as another player who had played the game for a long time and got cp that way. If you don't know how to pvp then cp will not save you. Still i would prefer if battle leveling included cp so everyone has the same chances and does not have an addition disadvantage to his lack of experience.
If a Low CP opponent will get destroyed because of his lack of experience, what reason is there to add CP difference to compound his losing? You actually make an argument for CP removal in BGs in your comment.
I think the argument here is:
In No CP, inexperienced opponents get destroyed no matter what. Specifically, players inexperienced at No CP PVP get destroyed. A player who is experienced at CP PVP but hasn't adjusted their build/skills/gear will still have a major learning curve in No CP.
Now that seems great! Just take away everyone's CP and it'll be even, right? Well...the other part of the argument is that an inexperienced player with CP benefits from those CP, which can really help with what is otherwise a brutal learning curve. A low CP player can always, in the words of the loading screens, "grind up to a higher level and come back later" if they feel they don't have enough CP to be competitive (which is not really how that works, player skill and experience trumps CP any day).
So basically, the argument is:
In No CP PVP, player skill/gear/build and experience in No CP PVP trumps everything. The only way to get better is to Learn2Play and pick the right skills/gear/build for No CP PVP. If you suck and keep getting mashed by the other team, L2Play the meta better. No CP battlegrounds definitely had its own meta, just a different meta than CP Battlegrounds.
In CP PVP, player skill/gear/build and experience is still the most telling factor. (Put an inexperienced player in a meta build vs and experienced player in a meta build and compare.) However, the CP means that different meta builds are viable that in No CP. It also means that players have a "cushion" of sorts from their CP that they can adjust as needed. If you suck, in addition to L2Play and picking better meta skills/gear/builds, you can also readjust your CP to fit your needs or gain more CP. Getting more CP won't save you from inexperience but it can make the learning curve a little easier as you gain that experience.
An inexperience player in No CP PVP is going to die very quickly and die a lot. The only way to improve is through experience. An inexperienced player in CP PVP with at least some CP will last a little longer before he/she dies and can look forward to getting stronger with more CP as they gain in PVP experience.
Now, I've got no particular bone to pick in this argument. I'm a CP 690 player who prefers CP-enabled Cyrodiil PVP to battlegrounds because I disliked having to change my gear around to do well in No CP battlegrounds. I've been doing CP-enabled Cyrodiil PVP from well before I got my max CP and inexperience was far more of a factor in my many deaths than a lack of CP.1 -
Zer0oo✭✭✭✭✭
✭To be honest it is kinda pointless to discuss the cp vs no-cp here on the forum it always goes the same way.
Cp makes tank builds possible. But they already existed in no-cp.
Cp makes it so new player with low cp do not have a chance. But they already did not have a chance in no-cp. (If you put experience pvp player against "noobs" in cp or no-cp the result is and will always be the same)
Cp is imbalanced. But no-cp was not balanced either.
Cp makes less build viable. No it just makes different build viable and gives you more freedom how to make a build if you really want to min/max.
....
Cp and no-cp pvp have problem but for now i like the cp pvp more. It is a personal preference but it is kinda funny how many player are extremely bias against cp and blame everything on cp.
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus1 -
Anethum✭✭✭✭Cp and no-cp pvp have problem but for now i like the cp pvp more. It is a personal preference but it is kinda funny how many player are extremely bias against cp and blame everything on cp.
It's simple, we should have access to both modes.
Grouping tool option, different leaderboards.
@ZOS_Wrobel , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Same as another option to play in premade league, or grouped from random players.
In another way here always wil not be enouch players to have fun there.
Anyone like to always wipe on voice coordinated group vs randoms, anyone adeqate in organized group get no anjoy from killing randoms without competition. People leave and don't return bg because of this. Negative filtration.
P.S: "premade/randoms" - option is extremly important, and "cp/non-cp" option is important for freedom of choice and as background for comfortable investigating fight system to balance classes in both modes.@Anethum from .ua1 -
Forztr✭✭✭✭For me, the problem with battlegrounds is that 4 people are not enough to play an objective based game mode. For an organised 4 man team then yes maybe but a random group nope you'll have 2 guys treating it as a deathmatch 1 guy not having a clue about what to do and finally a try-hard doing their best but ultimately just giving up.
Since factions are unimportant I don't see why we need 3 teams and with 2 teams you could have 8 v 8. Will never happen because the maps are designed around 3 teams and any big changes would be an admission on ZOS part that they screwed up badly and finally not enough people play the mode to justify allocating resources to it.
They should just have 4 v 4 v 4 deathmatches and change objective-based modes to two teams of more players on maps redesigned for the two team format.0 -
killimandrosb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭what kinda puzzles me are all those talking about inexperienced players have the option to do better in a CP campaign....It contradicts its own argument, as an inexperienced player wont be CP 690. So basically you want the inexperienced players to BOTH overcome the CP gap AND at the same time do this against players who have honed their cp builds and gear? Its beyond ridiculous for any new or inexperienced player. In NO CP they have at least equal terms when it comes to CP honing. If youre at 690 CP, youre not inexperienced unless you bought your toon.1
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »what kinda puzzles me are all those talking about inexperienced players have the option to do better in a CP campaign....It contradicts its own argument, as an inexperienced player wont be CP 690. So basically you want the inexperienced players to BOTH overcome the CP gap AND at the same time do this against players who have honed their cp builds and gear? Its beyond ridiculous for any new or inexperienced player. In NO CP they have at least equal terms when it comes to CP honing. If youre at 690 CP, youre not inexperienced unless you bought your toon.
We're generally talking inexperienced as in "inexperienced at PVP". I mean, if some player fresh to level 10 wants to jump into Cyrodiil, they've got Kyne for that. Personally, I take my level 10s to CP-enabled Cyrodiil because I'm comfortable there now.
I'll admit my own bias. I got into CP-enabled Cyrodiil PVP from being a hardcore PVE player. I had plenty of experience with playing the game and very little experience playing PVP. That inexperience got me killed far more than the CP gap. The CP gap I can close with grinding and I did. The inexperience gap is pure Learn2Play, and I find playing with CP much more enjoyable than playing without CP, even if it meant that other players might have an advantage over me. My inexperience and learning a new build now still gets me killed by players with less CP all the time. Max CP is not a guaranteed win. Low CP is not a guaranteed loss.1 -
killimandrosb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭In battlegrounds which is where this discussion is, yes low CP is a guaranteed loss with the current setup. This is because the setting itself with smaller number of opponents, the type of player youre most likely to meet, lesser field to pick your own targets if youre wise enough to do that and fixed objectives you have to meet makes CP BG not an option for anyone below 600 CP, and even they will struggle a lot.3
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ajcorbell✭✭✭I still don't understand the decision to add CP to BG. Theoretically everyone can be competitive in non-cp BG, not everyone can be competitive in CP BG. If their plan was to do this to boost numbers I don't see it4 -
Hankrabbit✭✭✭CP in BG was a terrible idea, because it has excluded a large part of the community from doing BG. The argument about experience many people come up with is not correct. Talented beginners with a good build (from youtube or mates) could keep up, but with cp it is impossible.
a short story:
i am getting many messages after BGs about my build. Often they come from low-cp-players.Unfortunately the only thing that i can tell them is "grind cp". Otherwise even with the best build you will have no chance.
I usually have a bad conscience after I killed low-cp-players. CP-Bg is just bs in my eyes.3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hankrabbit wrote: »CP in BG was a terrible idea, because it has excluded a large part of the community from doing BG. The argument about experience many people come up with is not correct. Talented beginners with a good build (from youtube or mates) could keep up, but with cp it is impossible.
a short story:
i am getting many messages after BGs about my build. Often they come from low-cp-players.Unfortunately the only thing that i can tell them is "grind cp". Otherwise even with the best build you will have no chance.
I usually have a bad conscience after I killed low-cp-players. CP-Bg is just bs in my eyes.
No CP only in Battlegrounds was a terrible idea as well, because it excluded a large part of the community from doing BG. Generally speaking, PVPers who like No CP and PVPers who like CP-enabled don't mix well.
I'd think the obvious solution would be to give each group their own version of Battlegrounds so everyone can do No CP or CP if they choose, but apparently neither group of players does a good job of having a large enough population actually interested in 4v4v4 gamemodes.0 -
chris211✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »1. As long as Battlegrounds is behind the paywall of Morrowind, Battlegrounds is inherently limited. Now, if ZOS' marketing data says most active players have Morrowind, carry on. If not, well, there's the root of your population problem.
2. CP and No CP is a catch 22. Most players don't enjoy doing both because it takes completely different builds. I dislike having to swap gear to do both types of PVP, so I avoid No CP. So if you have one option or the other, you alienate a chunk of Battlegrounds players. If you have both, you divide the population further.
3. Most players don't enjoy ALL of the gamemodes. Some players are willing to put up with the gamemodes they don't like for the sake of the ones they do. Others aren't. So surely ZOS could allow people to opt in to the modes they want, right? Nope, ZOS is continuing to monetize Battlegrounds by introducing new modes which requires that players actually play those new modes. Its hard to get hyped for a new Battleground mode when you know that most players will stick with the same old deathmatch.
And finally, the point that no one really wants to discuss. Battlegrounds was designed as a sop to the small scale PVPers of Cyrodiil. You know, the solo gankers, the 2-4 man small groups that claim "small-scale is where the skill really is!" and the resource farm groups and 1vXer and solo duelists. That's what Battlegrounds was designed for - to provide all those small scale fights with no zergs to get in the way. And Battlegrounds has certain provided. Its 4v4v4 - no zergs.
And yet its still failing. Its been a failure of one form or another since it launched. It could be that its a combo of points 1-3 above. But I think its also because most of the Cyrodiil small-scalers really never wanted an equal fight on 4v4v4 terms. Those people that actually wanted to fight equally in Battlegrounds in a 4v4v4 - those are the premade groups in Battleground and there aren't enough of them to sustain the Battlegrounds population. There never were. So perhaps its time to consider whether or not the hype for small scale PVP that led ZOS to believe there was a large market for Battlegrounds was really just a lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
bgs is all i play now im sick of all the faction stacking in vivec0 -
killimandrosb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »
If you compare a cp 300 vs a cp 690 I think its quite evident which one has a distinct advantage, let the 30/50/75 bonuses aside (although its also easy to advocate some of them like the shield you get by blocking is an advantage in a fast paced setting like a BG. And its NOT the only one. All apart from the obvious mount speed, merchant favoured etc. which has direct stat boosts to dps or defence or health, obviously gives an edge). Trying to disguise that obvious fact will only bring more frustration to the table2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »
The off-balance for armor of Truth dodge roll one really2 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭New Halo players are bad and would die to experienced halo players even if everyone had to use an smg.
So let just give the experienced halo players rocket launchers, tanks, and sniper rifles and leave the new players with smg's because it doesnt matter right?
I mean, surely the marginal bonus of a few CP will help new players overcome massive statistical imbalance more than just removing the massive statistical imbalance?
I wonder if some of yall actually read the things you write. SMH
Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..3 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I mean experienced players would have to change their CP to account for... oh wait no they dont cause no CP....
Um well experienced players would have to change their strategies and adapt, and thats just unfair. I mean they should just be allowed to bang their faces agaist the keyboard and win at this point, that is the only acceptable outcome.
Surely we could at least scale stats based on hours logged into the game. That way whoever has the most hours logged in would be stronger than everyone else. That is the only fair way to play right?Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..1 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »
I'm sorry @Emma_Overload that's just nonsense..ive played BG from launch, and a number of top ten leaderboard players were ~CP200. ALL of these have left now CP has dropped. Saying less experienced players have it easier in CP is just wrong.
No-CP is a leveler. Sure you need your gear, and to understand sustain, however its much better suited for mixed levels.
He'll even those PvE 690's you mention often don't get allocating their CP right half the time, poor choices, not understanding jump points or even knowing the bug with assigning to Hardy etc first.
No-CP belongs in BG for pace alone, however the argument for less experienced players 100% favors no-CP. Half the time low CP PUGs in BG now get shouted at or annoy 690's as odds are you team is going to get smashed. Before it was welcome to all all..
Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach3 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »I still don't understand way so many (or at least so many ppl on the forum) are so against cp pvp.
Because it's so much easier for well-built, experienced players to kill weaker, less experienced players in No-CP. A CP690 PvE player may not have much experience in PvP, but he knows how to read build guides (including CP allocations!) and grind for gear. That CP690 "carebear" can easily obtain some kind of super tanky survival build and make himself a real nuisance to impatient PvPers when CP is enabled. He may not be getting a lot of kills himself, but at least he doesn't feel like he's getting stomped on.
Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Experienced, well organized PvPers already have enormous advantages that carry over into Battlegrounds, so I don't see any problem with weaker players, PUGs and carebears adopting builds that frustrate them. I say make them work for their kills!
And I say playing a Deathmatch where there’s 5 kills in 8 minutes before people start leaving the match is horrendous gameplay.
CP allows broken permablock and healbot builds to exist. It also allows the current OP Heavy Armor Stam builds to play. All while this happens, players who aren’t CP690 get destroyed by max level people with zero chance of success, which isolates a large amount of players right from the start. Pre-mades are more frequent too.
No-CP PvP puts people on as much of an even playing field as possible for the current state of the game. There is no CP to cover for the weaknesses of your build. Skill has to account for that and broken builds that can tank a group and still dish out high damage don’t exist. I don’t need my 900+ CP to 1vX, I just need my skill and improvements as a player to actually mean something instead of fighting a near-invincible BG tank that sits on the flag.
Skill >>> CP/Gear/Builds in No-CP.
I’ve stopped playing BGs because if I want toxic gameplay full of broken builds then I’d rather go 1vX in Cyrodiil. BGs used to be fun, competitve PvP, but not anymore
I disagree completely with the cp arguments.
Heal bots, permblockers and extrem tanky dps builds did also exist in no cp and were already quite popular in no-cp bg. People highly exaggerate what cp enable someone to do now after morrowind and how much you have to change to make a cp build work in no cp.
A low cp person will most likely so or so be getting destroyed because he will not be as experienced as another player who had played the game for a long time and got cp that way. If you don't know how to pvp then cp will not save you. Still i would prefer if battle leveling included cp so everyone has the same chances and does not have an addition disadvantage to his lack of experience.
If a Low CP opponent will get destroyed because of his lack of experience, what reason is there to add CP difference to compound his losing? You actually make an argument for CP removal in BGs in your comment.
Spot on @Waffennacht!!Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach2 -
Zer0oo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Back when battlegrounds were no-cp the weather was so much nicer outside and now after they are cp it is COULD and SNOWY outside. Look at all the people outside who are just wearing a t-shirt and they are now freezing.
MAKE THE WEATHER WARM AGAIN BRING BACK NO-CP BATTLEGROUNDS. Give People who are just wearing a t-shirt a chance to go out again without them freezing.
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus1