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Why are there snares again!?
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Mazbt✭✭✭✭nvm didn't see your following posts. Covered what i brought up.Edited by Mazbt on January 2, 2018 7:28PMMazari the Resurrected (AD)- PVP stamplar main
Maz the Druid - PVP group stam warden
- many others
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Fantasia0 -
Ectheliontnacil✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@TheDoomsdayMonsterTheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Snares are there so everyone doesn't just zip around like a monkey on crack, or orbit a rock at 10+ revolutions per second.
100% agreed...
Snares are absolutely needed in this game as some builds would be insanely difficult to kill without them; especially when they have obstructions in the environment to run around...
@Ectheliontnacil
You can't have it all...
You say that Elusive Mist is not an option because it makes you vulnerable to other things (like Dawnbreaker and Magicka Dragonknights), but that's the trade off for a good solution to being snared...
It seems to me that you want your one spec to be effective against everything so you can happily 1vx away, but that's not balance...
You want something, you gotta give up something...thats balance...and it forces you to make a decision as pertains what you want your character to be most effective at.
Ok this post needs some correcting.
1)Snares are NOT needed in this game! Either use gap closers or don't *** about your opponents getting away. Besides there's still plenty of ways to use line-of-sight: One would be to use snare immunity (mist or forward momentum) anther is using one of the most annoying set in game (Eternal Hunt)...if someone runs around a rock with that set you won't get them in this lifetime or the next, snares or no snares. And how is LOS such a major issue all of a sudden, there's unkillable perma block builds, stamina wardens and healbots...really there's just certain specs you can't kill by yourself. If you have a problem with that I don't think the solution is snares XD.
2)Elusive mist could be considered a "trade off" as you put it. But take into consideration that a lot of builds can run snare immunity without any major negative effects.
3)How can you talk about balance? Did you not pay attention? I LITERALLY explained why pvp is so unbalanced atm and there's a stamina meta (because of snares...).
I mean if you don't agree that's fine but don't just put false information out there or someone might actually believe it
.
Edited by Ectheliontnacil on January 2, 2018 7:31PM0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree that snares need nerfs. Not removals, just make them so it's either minor snare or major snare. Not 53 different snares on me, each from a different skill...Edited by Subversus on January 2, 2018 8:06PM0 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Good Nightblades just cloak until you run out resources to bring them out of cloak. The fight is reset at will, then they counter with their burst.0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Major and Minor Speed de buffs... imho@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Ectheliontnacil✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@SkoomahGood Nightblades just cloak until you run out resources to bring them out of cloak. The fight is reset at will, then they counter with their burst.
LUL
Cloaking in 1v1 is for noobs anyway. And against most decent players cloaking is pretty ineffective. So no, that's not at all what good nightblades do XD.
Edited by Ectheliontnacil on January 2, 2018 8:48PM0 -
Ectheliontnacil✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@SubversusI agree that snares need nerfs. Not removals, just make them so it's either minor snare or major snare. Not 53 different snares on me, each from a different skill...
Ye dude, snares don't have to be removed entirely for it to be an improvement. I mean the real issue is 2-3 players stacking snares on you until your character might as well be rooted.1 -
lucky_Sage✭✭✭✭✭there mostly there melee classes without mobility but no al classes have them. gap closers have the strongest snare that even goes the snare immunityDC PC NA
Magdk - main
Stamcro - alt
AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
magdk
magblade
stamplar
magden
magsorc0 -
IxSTALKERxI✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭A game without snares would be 10 times worse than a game with snares. Completely removing them would be the worst thing you could do.
That said the snares in the game should be more balanced and not come for free as a secondary effect on half the abilities in the game.NA | PC | Aldmeri DominionLaser Eyes AR 26 Arcanist | Stalker V AR 41 Warden | I Stalker I AR 42 NB | Stalkersaurus AR 31 Templar | Stalker Ill AR 31 Sorc | Nigel the Great of BlackwaterFormer Emperor x11 campaign cyclesVenatus Officer | RIP RÁGE | YouTube Channel0 -
Zer0oo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I really hope ZOS does bug snares so no one can purge or have immunity against them.
SNARES FOR EVERYONE! EVERYONE LIKE SNARES! MORE SNARE STACKING FOR EVERYONE!
Who the hell needs to be able to move? Just try it, it is so much fun to do everything with only 20% speed than you normally do. 10 player chasing you and you move as fast as a snail away from them. FUN
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus1 -
Ectheliontnacil✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think a lot of people didn't really get what I was trying to say: Snares are annoying, I personally don't like them and could live without them. But the problem is snares are one of the major reasons for the current stamina meta and make some magicka classes completely underperform in openworld pvp (especially magblades, but other classes are affected too)0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ectheliontnacil wrote: »I think a lot of people didn't really get what I was trying to say: Snares are annoying, I personally don't like them and could live without them. But the problem is snares are one of the major reasons for the current stamina meta and make some magicka classes completely underperform in openworld pvp (especially magblades, but other classes are affected too)
As a character that has ranged abilities it's understandable you would not understand whys hates exists even though you mention that stam use them.
Stam is inherently melee outside of snipers. The snare is important for them to keep the target within damage range. Obviously this is easier for ranged dps since, well, they have range.
So in the end, snares will not go away and regardless of what reasons you give for not wanting to use the counter, the counter is still there so the design is just fine.1 -
Joosef_Kivikilpi✭✭✭✭Ectheliontnacil wrote: »Secondly they make gap closers useless. Playing melee builds offers many advantages: In general you do more damage (skills like surprise attack, concealed weapon, executioner, lava whip etc. do hit exceptionally hard) also (this is of course generally speaking) melee skills tend to be more “powerful” overall and the raw damage is often paired with additional buffs and debuffs e.g. major fracture, as is the case with ransack and surprise attack. Also melee attacks are hard to avoid, since you don’t see them coming as is the case with ranged attacks, it’s much harder to block a animation-cancelled dawnbreaker, that it is to avoid a merciless resolve proc. So on the one hand we have all these pros but where are the cons to using melee based skills? Well that con used to be the need to equip a gapcloser. Do not get me wrong here, gapclosers are great skills in their own right but they do make most attacks somewhat more predictable and until the opponent “closes the gap” you are not subjected to the relentless onslaught of close ranged dots, roots and damage attacks. Also classes like magicka dragonknights had to use either chains (which costs them a skillslot) or the 1h/s charge (which is a cool stun but it costs a lot of stamina to use). Currently though, most melee builds simply use snares, which allows them to stay on their opponents 100% of the time, which makes it virtually impossible for the opponent to gain distance and allows the “snare-user” to have complete control of positioning in the fight.
Stampede... most stupid skill morph in the game. 70% snare + gap closer = broken. You literally can't escape... and there is not a single speed buff to counter that besides both Major Expedition AND Sprinting to get normal base speed again... but by that time, Dizzying Swing is already CC'ing you with it's 7 meter range.
Love the 2H. Not salty at all.
Won't even start on how easy they've made it for ANYONE and their Mom to trip over a log and discover a Shadow Cloaked Nightblade that then can't evade anymore due to ridiculous abilities and AoEs (I'm looking at you, Damaging Ritual with huge AOE with Passive Snare of 30% included and Hurricane on Sorcerers).
They've have really dulled skill down. It used to be an adventure using cloak and mind games to evade enemies and not having to rely on a Shadow Image to simply have a chance at survival when overrun.Edited by Joosef_Kivikilpi on January 3, 2018 4:30PM1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ectheliontnacil wrote: »I think a lot of people didn't really get what I was trying to say: Snares are annoying, I personally don't like them and could live without them. But the problem is snares are one of the major reasons for the current stamina meta and make some magicka classes completely underperform in openworld pvp (especially magblades, but other classes are affected too)
As a character that has ranged abilities it's understandable you would not understand whys hates exists even though you mention that stam use them.
Stam is inherently melee outside of snipers. The snare is important for them to keep the target within damage range. Obviously this is easier for ranged dps since, well, they have range.
So in the end, snares will not go away and regardless of what reasons you give for not wanting to use the counter, the counter is still there so the design is just fine.
I would have to disagree here.
Gapclosers are there to keep in melee range. They are not punishing, unlike this game's only gapopener, Streak. They are actually quite rewarding.
If you let your target get outside of gapclose range, you should be punished. But snares diminish that punishment.
Only for landing difficult hits should a snare be legit in combat. Preventing your enemy from walking through Wrecking Blow and such. That would be fine. But we know exactly what snares are really used for, and that is piling the zerg on you. Regardless of range, speed, terrain and whatnot. It's a zerg tool.
The counters present for magicka are vastly inferior to the stamina ones. I wouldn't call this a "stamina meta", but it helps tremendously in 1vX, and I strongly believe magicka deserves the same, and everyone deserves more anti-zerg tools.0 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Snares are fine. Between certain armor sets, purge, immovable, retreating maneuvers, immovable pots and a host of other abilities that remove negative effects, reduce negative effect times etc, this is a non-issue. In fact I think they need to make purge and retreating maneuvers less effective.1 -
kessik221✭✭✭lets removal all debuffs all buffs, all gear all armor all set bonuses, lets have no stats whatsoever, because you suck at pvp and need to l2p so all that stuff must just be bad for the game. Then when you are still getting your ass whooped lets remove pvp entirely because they must be hackers because someone as bad as you couldnt possibly lose, not ever.0
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Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sounds like a L2P issue. Sorcs streak away. Nightblades cloak away. Wardens have major expedition. Templars can cleanse. Dragon Knights just sit there and take it. Snares ain't a problem man.
Except streak can’t get away from a major snare of 70%
You streak 3x just to be rp walking and the enemies sprint or gap close after you just to reapply the 10 second snare again.
Some people only lotus spam on you meaning you are always snared
Even without snares most classes have no issue catching sorcs now days because the cost to streak 5+ times will drain a considerable amount of resources.
Snares should be on a major minor of 30/15%
And last 2-4 seconds
In addition these snares shouldn’t be present on almost every other skill as they should be selective.
This doesn’t even take into consideration roots like encase that also apply a slow for 6 seconds.
When mag classes like mag blade and magden slot a 2h for forward momentum just so they can move in pvp and myself as a magsorc try to slot it as well then pvp is ***.
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Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ectheliontnacil wrote: »
Indeed. Could be a morph option, I vote for Structured Entropy. You would still have to apply it on a target, so I suggest a somewhat generous duration.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ectheliontnacil wrote: »I think a lot of people didn't really get what I was trying to say: Snares are annoying, I personally don't like them and could live without them. But the problem is snares are one of the major reasons for the current stamina meta and make some magicka classes completely underperform in openworld pvp (especially magblades, but other classes are affected too)
As a character that has ranged abilities it's understandable you would not understand whys hates exists even though you mention that stam use them.
Stam is inherently melee outside of snipers. The snare is important for them to keep the target within damage range. Obviously this is easier for ranged dps since, well, they have range.
So in the end, snares will not go away and regardless of what reasons you give for not wanting to use the counter, the counter is still there so the design is just fine.
I would have to disagree here.
Gapclosers are there to keep in melee range. They are not punishing, unlike this game's only gapopener, Streak. They are actually quite rewarding.
If you let your target get outside of gapclose range, you should be punished. But snares diminish that punishment.
Only for landing difficult hits should a snare be legit in combat. Preventing your enemy from walking through Wrecking Blow and such. That would be fine. But we know exactly what snares are really used for, and that is piling the zerg on you. Regardless of range, speed, terrain and whatnot. It's a zerg tool.
The counters present for magicka are vastly inferior to the stamina ones. I wouldn't call this a "stamina meta", but it helps tremendously in 1vX, and I strongly believe magicka deserves the same, and everyone deserves more anti-zerg tools.
I was merely stating a big reason snares are there. Gap closers only serve part of the issue since it's very counter productive to keep gap closing a target. Oh, don't gal closers still have snares? Though weaker than they used to be.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ectheliontnacil wrote: »I think a lot of people didn't really get what I was trying to say: Snares are annoying, I personally don't like them and could live without them. But the problem is snares are one of the major reasons for the current stamina meta and make some magicka classes completely underperform in openworld pvp (especially magblades, but other classes are affected too)
As a character that has ranged abilities it's understandable you would not understand whys hates exists even though you mention that stam use them.
Stam is inherently melee outside of snipers. The snare is important for them to keep the target within damage range. Obviously this is easier for ranged dps since, well, they have range.
So in the end, snares will not go away and regardless of what reasons you give for not wanting to use the counter, the counter is still there so the design is just fine.
I would have to disagree here.
Gapclosers are there to keep in melee range. They are not punishing, unlike this game's only gapopener, Streak. They are actually quite rewarding.
If you let your target get outside of gapclose range, you should be punished. But snares diminish that punishment.
Only for landing difficult hits should a snare be legit in combat. Preventing your enemy from walking through Wrecking Blow and such. That would be fine. But we know exactly what snares are really used for, and that is piling the zerg on you. Regardless of range, speed, terrain and whatnot. It's a zerg tool.
The counters present for magicka are vastly inferior to the stamina ones. I wouldn't call this a "stamina meta", but it helps tremendously in 1vX, and I strongly believe magicka deserves the same, and everyone deserves more anti-zerg tools.
I was merely stating a big reason snares are there. Gap closers only serve part of the issue since it's very counter productive to keep gap closing a target. Oh, don't gal closers still have snares? Though weaker than they used to be.
It's very productive to keep gapclosing on people that try to open some distance. Gapclosers are cheaper and offensive, compared to Streak and sprinting and such.
If your enemy moved away from your melee range after you were on him, he outpositioned you - and that is the noob crutch snares provide.
Yup, gapclosers have an unavoidable snare because of technical reasons, which are ignored by NB gapclosers to begin with, and no one cares about fixing for Streak. Stampede already has a snare, so that leaves Toppling as the only gapcloser I can support having a technical snare.
I guess we should be thankful they don't have a root anymore.
(>.>)0 -
Ectheliontnacil✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Lord-OttoEctheliontnacil wrote: »I think a lot of people didn't really get what I was trying to say: Snares are annoying, I personally don't like them and could live without them. But the problem is snares are one of the major reasons for the current stamina meta and make some magicka classes completely underperform in openworld pvp (especially magblades, but other classes are affected too)
As a character that has ranged abilities it's understandable you would not understand whys hates exists even though you mention that stam use them.
Stam is inherently melee outside of snipers. The snare is important for them to keep the target within damage range. Obviously this is easier for ranged dps since, well, they have range.
So in the end, snares will not go away and regardless of what reasons you give for not wanting to use the counter, the counter is still there so the design is just fine.
I would have to disagree here.
Gapclosers are there to keep in melee range. They are not punishing, unlike this game's only gapopener, Streak. They are actually quite rewarding.
If you let your target get outside of gapclose range, you should be punished. But snares diminish that punishment.
Only for landing difficult hits should a snare be legit in combat. Preventing your enemy from walking through Wrecking Blow and such. That would be fine. But we know exactly what snares are really used for, and that is piling the zerg on you. Regardless of range, speed, terrain and whatnot. It's a zerg tool.
The counters present for magicka are vastly inferior to the stamina ones. I wouldn't call this a "stamina meta", but it helps tremendously in 1vX, and I strongly believe magicka deserves the same, and everyone deserves more anti-zerg tools.
I was merely stating a big reason snares are there. Gap closers only serve part of the issue since it's very counter productive to keep gap closing a target. Oh, don't gal closers still have snares? Though weaker than they used to be.
It's very productive to keep gapclosing on people that try to open some distance. Gapclosers are cheaper and offensive, compared to Streak and sprinting and such.
If your enemy moved away from your melee range after you were on him, he outpositioned you - and that is the noob crutch snares provide.
Yup, gapclosers have an unavoidable snare because of technical reasons, which are ignored by NB gapclosers to begin with, and no one cares about fixing for Streak. Stampede already has a snare, so that leaves Toppling as the only gapcloser I can support having a technical snare.
I guess we should be thankful they don't have a root anymore.
(>.>)
I like this guy !
Finally someone who shares my views
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Kode✭✭✭I agree, snares need to be examined.
There are too many sources of snares that are far too powerful alone (i.e. 70%), and stacking! And not enough good counterplay.
Forward momentum is being used by most but it is overpowered to begin with, so it is the logical counter against soft CC (which is why half of the people aren't complaining). It is creating a vacuum of players being forced to run this one skill to counter soft CC being to powerful to begin with. Forward momentum should realistically have removal and 4-5 seconds of immunity, which would bring it in line with shuffle.
I would reconsider the amount of sources of snare that classes have access to, and the potency of the snares that they do have, especially when it comes to AoE snares which are immensely overpowered for one player to lock so many people down.
Purge is too expensive for a solo player to use, especially when snare will be reapplied almost immediately in many situations. Its not like you are going to continue to spam purge to break loose of snares, and there is no built in immunity.
Elusive mist is too narrow to consider it effective. It has heavy penalties for gaining the skill line, in addition to the penalties of its use.Kode Darkstar, Aldmeri Dominion2 -
ezeepeezee✭✭✭✭Snares make the game very unpleasant for me. I'm actually on the verge of just not going back into PVP until something is done about it.1
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Ectheliontnacil✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@idkEctheliontnacil wrote: »Yet you do not use any of the counters it seems, seemingly. Most counters are not class specific.
I guess it makes sense because I see you created a thread awhile back complaining about hard counters like detection pots.
Why are you bringing up my previous discussions in an attempt to discredit my arguments?
Firstly this isn't a valid counter to anything I have said and secondly you yourself haven't even created a single discussion. All you seem to do is sit back and hate on discussions that people post, who have a genuine interest in making the game more enjoyable.0 -
BroanBeast1215✭✭✭ezeepeezee wrote: »Snares make the game very unpleasant for me. I'm actually on the verge of just not going back into PVP until something is done about it.
Good, don't need such thin skinned people in pvp in the first place.
brb I don't like that sorcs can shield stack and stay alive forever guess I just wont pvp until they fix it!
horrible logic0