We need overland HARDMODE

Demycilian · December 2017

Newbies need to be whipped into shape. Whithin reason, of course. Plus proper guidance and guardianship.
Too much coddling will make them weak and send the game on a downward spiral. Challenge begets growth.

AlienatedGoat · December 2017

Demycilian wrote: »

Newbies need to be whipped into shape. Whithin reason, of course. Plus proper guidance and guardianship.
Too much coddling will make them weak and send the game on a downward spiral. Challenge begets growth.

OP is suggesting what amounts to Veteran mode for Overland, for experienced players. OP isn't suggesting a gauntlet for newbies.

Demycilian · December 2017

Phage wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Newbies need to be whipped into shape. Whithin reason, of course. Plus proper guidance and guardianship.
Too much coddling will make them weak and send the game on a downward spiral. Challenge begets growth.

OP is suggesting what amounts to Veteran mode for Overland, for experienced players. OP isn't suggesting a gauntlet for newbies.

Im in support of that as well.

ssewallb14_ESO · December 2017

Apparently anything more difficult than the current overland content is for sweaty tryhard elitists. Also there are 2 difficulties that exist, toddler-friendly and Dark Souls. Thanks ESO forums, I learn something new every day.

Oakmontowls_ESO · December 2017

While I disagree with having overland segregated in normal and vet instances, I would like solo quest instances to have a vet version (selected in the group tab). This would help the horribly anticlimactic final quest boss fights that have no challenge at all. For example the final boss in the cwc story has an amazing atmosphere that is absolutely ruined when it dies to light attacks. Even just a simple number tweak that inflates the hp of the boss as well as the damage it does would be much better than it is currently.

ArchMikem · December 2017

Anrose wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

deamor666eb17_ESO wrote: »

Take off all your gear except weapons. Don’t assign champion points.
Well done, you have now activated harder play mode.

Do even know what hard mode is?Overland needs to be made more difficult.

Overland is the prep school to end game group content.

Overland content does NOTHING to prepare anyone for endgame group content. I think it’s the point of this post to make it more challenging so that it forces to learn how to actually fight in this game. That way I don’t get a “tank” in a vet dungeon who uses a 2H and does nothing but light attack, stand in stupid, and die.

The method of learning is fine. The difference is the people who WANT to learn, and the people who insist on just doing whatever the Hell they want. Once upon a time I used to have overland trash mobs absolutely wreck me and I thought it was horrible. But I WANTED to learn to get better, and sure enough I eventually got myself into Normal, then Vet Group Dungeons learning about mechanics, armor sets, passive bonuses, rotations etc. And the majority of that was self taught.

Yeah I get plenty of Bow Light Attack spammer DPS in vet groups but I don't blame the content for that, I blame the player for not caring.

madchuska83 · December 2017

And what about the people who just want to enjoy a decent Elder Scrolls game? Hell, I ran around in first person completing all the quests in all three factions for the first year I had the game. I never set foot in a dungeon. Once I joined a good guild I started getting into end game content. Now I've completed all Vet content except HoF and still manage to have a good time everyday.

Grabmoore · December 2017

Voxicity wrote: »

Agreed 100%. Not sure why the casuals are so opposed to it. If you aren't skilled enough then don't do it

Noone played the old Craglorn back when it was still hard. It used to be popular for some time and I was one of the few, who even played it solo. Skyreach, Exarchen or the 3 Lamiaes were real threads.

But again, people don't want hard solo content. You request challenging solo content for an MMO... Better grow up instead of blaming the casuals. You sound like a CoD kid

Doctordarkspawn · December 2017

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

deamor666eb17_ESO wrote: »

Take off all your gear except weapons. Don’t assign champion points.
Well done, you have now activated harder play mode.

Do even know what hard mode is?Overland needs to be made more difficult.

No, it doesnt need to be. You want it to be. Overland is the prep school to end game group content. Unless youre suggesting there be separate instances for players, id suggest you take a look at all those low levels already running around taking 5min just to defeat a single trash mob. You want to make life even harder on them?

Overland in it's current state is not going to do anything to prep players for end game contents.In fact I think it does the opposite. Since it can all be done without even knowing what a rotation is.It may sound a bit harsh,but if you are new you should have some difficulty.How else will you learn?

You are correct in this. The normal overland does *** all to prep players for the inevitability of endgame. And that needs to change, but I think that's going to need to take root on a design level, not a content level.

After all, you throw people at a brick wall without at least a map it's not gonna teach them anything except where the door is.

Bryanonymous · December 2017

Do they think we are joking or are they choosing to ignore the most logical solution? I’m serious, take off your gear. Tell me why you need your gear... give me a reason that you play with gear on. Go...

Integral1900 · December 2017

Threes considerations

1 it can’t seperate the population, that kind of thing kills mmo’s

2 craglorn failed utterly as a zone, it died on its backside, beyond nirn farming and trials the zone is a gorgeous looking disaster

3 it must be 100% optional

What you might get is a system that nerfs you as a player but gives more loot or xp, you deffinately won’t get a seperate instance or anything that separates players

Kalante · December 2017

i remember when craglorn was the challenging zone but nobody went fighting the bosses because of it. So

No.

Korah_Eaglecry · December 2017

Demycilian wrote: »

Newbies need to be whipped into shape. Whithin reason, of course. Plus proper guidance and guardianship.
Too much coddling will make them weak and send the game on a downward spiral. Challenge begets growth.

LMAO. And Hardmode is the means to this "whipping into shape"?

Well, I guess I cant argue with that. I mean the sky is falling and the death of the game is definitely on the horizon. If we dont do something extreme now. We wont have this amazing game to play for much longer. We should make extreme changes that wont possibly fullfill the fearmongering we are using in hopes of getting what we want.

notimetocare · December 2017

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

deamor666eb17_ESO wrote: »

Take off all your gear except weapons. Don’t assign champion points.
Well done, you have now activated harder play mode.

Do even know what hard mode is?Overland needs to be made more difficult.

No it doesn't. You and some people want it to be.

MehrunesFlagon · December 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

deamor666eb17_ESO wrote: »

Take off all your gear except weapons. Don’t assign champion points.
Well done, you have now activated harder play mode.

Do even know what hard mode is?Overland needs to be made more difficult.

No, it doesnt need to be. You want it to be. Overland is the prep school to end game group content. Unless youre suggesting there be separate instances for players, id suggest you take a look at all those low levels already running around taking 5min just to defeat a single trash mob. You want to make life even harder on them?

Overland in it's current state is not going to do anything to prep players for end game contents.In fact I think it does the opposite. Since it can all be done without even knowing what a rotation is.It may sound a bit harsh,but if you are new you should have some difficulty.How else will you learn?

You are correct in this. The normal overland does *** all to prep players for the inevitability of endgame. And that needs to change, but I think that's going to need to take root on a design level, not a content level.

After all, you throw people at a brick wall without at least a map it's not gonna teach them anything except where the door is.

It certainly does need to change.Perhaps adding some slightly more difficult mechanics.Not just additional health as was done with the version 1 dungeons.One thing I can say for certain is that overland in it's current state seems to encourage standing in stupid.It needs to be taught to a higher degree that it is a bad idea.

Appleblade · December 2017

Why always the resistance to suggested optional modes? The main ES games have difficulty sliders. It’s lore friendly, so to speak .

I’m not even a BiS end game player and I’d like this.

Look at Borderlands for an example. It even warns the world has gotten harder when someone joins your coop group. It changes the stats on the fly. More “badass” enemies spawn. Yes, the game actually calls them that.

My approach would be easy, medium hard. Groups of three enempmie become four or five on medium. Hard gives you bunches like in group dungeons. Stats go up. The use their better attacks more often. If you take too long reinforcements spawn. And to be cheaper, they’d be different instances.

I don’t think anyone is looking for Dark Souls or every trash mob fight to be an epic battle- just let us dial stuff up if we want without silly stuff like self nerfing.

Maybe just do delves and quest dungeons because they’re likely easier to instance.

ADarklore · December 2017

Appleblade wrote: »

Why always the resistance to suggested optional modes? The main ES games have difficulty sliders. It’s lore friendly, so to speak . I’m not even a BiS end game player and I’d like this.

Look at Borderlands for an example. It even warns the world has gotten harder when someone joins your coop group. It changes the stats on the fly. More “badass” enemies spawn. Yes, the game actually calls them that.

My approach would be easy, medium hard. Groups of three enempmie become four or five on medium. Hard gives you bunches like in group dungeons. Stats go up. The use their better attacks more often. If you take too long reinforcements spawn. And to be cheaper, they’d be different instances.

I don’t think anyone is looking for Dark Souls or every trash mob fight to be an epic battle- just let us dial stuff up if we want without silly stuff like self nerfing.

Maybe just do delves and quest dungeons because they’re likely easier to instance.

The main ES games are SINGLE PLAYER GAMES... name some online games that have individual difficulty sliders... there is a reason they don't have them.

Korah_Eaglecry · December 2017

Appleblade wrote: »

Why always the resistance to suggested optional modes? The main ES games have difficulty sliders. It’s lore friendly, so to speak . I’m not even a BiS end game player and I’d like this.

Look at Borderlands for an example. It even warns the world has gotten harder when someone joins your coop group. It changes the stats on the fly. More “badass” enemies spawn. Yes, the game actually calls them that.

My approach would be easy, medium hard. Groups of three enempmie become four or five on medium. Hard gives you bunches like in group dungeons. Stats go up. The use their better attacks more often. If you take too long reinforcements spawn. And to be cheaper, they’d be different instances.

I don’t think anyone is looking for Dark Souls or every trash mob fight to be an epic battle- just let us dial stuff up if we want without silly stuff like self nerfing.

Maybe just do delves and quest dungeons because they’re likely easier to instance.

Because people are rightly concerned with the greater impact it would have on the game? Because it would further divide the game in a way that is not productive for anyone besides the few that would take part in this regularly? That it would likely create more animosity between players over gear choice and build preferences? That it would be a waste of developmental resources when those asking for it are a very very small minority that might not even stick around to enjoy. That these things are difficult to monetize for a game that heavily profits off of customization and casual gameplay?

srfrogg23 · December 2017

DosPanchos wrote: »

Can I get an amen?
This content is too good, too detailed, and too potentially entertaining to make it this easy. Please, ZOS, do us all a favor and give your content the justice it deserves by making it HARD again!

Some suggestions:
1. Revamp caldwells quest to make it hard mode for that specific character. It doesn't matter if it's instanced delves just give us some challenging overland!

2. Make new dlc zones that have special challenges and not just the same old warn out easy content. C'mon, just one difficult overland zone. I dare you.

3. Merry Christmas you filthy animals!

What is your definition of “difficult”? I guarantee you that there are already a ton of people out there that find this game difficult. How’s Zos supposed to balance your difficult with theirs without losing a bunch of customers?

Demycilian · December 2017

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Newbies need to be whipped into shape. Whithin reason, of course. Plus proper guidance and guardianship.
Too much coddling will make them weak and send the game on a downward spiral. Challenge begets growth.

LMAO. And Hardmode is the means to this "whipping into shape"?

Well, I guess I cant argue with that. I mean the sky is falling and the death of the game is definitely on the horizon. If we dont do something extreme now. We wont have this amazing game to play for much longer. We should make extreme changes that wont possibly fullfill the fearmongering we are using in hopes of getting what we want.

Or we should be just subscribing to Mats claims of how ESO "story mode" gained the game some 2,5 k million active players.

See, sarcasm is really the lowest of arts.

Korah_Eaglecry · December 2017

Demycilian wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Newbies need to be whipped into shape. Whithin reason, of course. Plus proper guidance and guardianship.
Too much coddling will make them weak and send the game on a downward spiral. Challenge begets growth.

LMAO. And Hardmode is the means to this "whipping into shape"?

Well, I guess I cant argue with that. I mean the sky is falling and the death of the game is definitely on the horizon. If we dont do something extreme now. We wont have this amazing game to play for much longer. We should make extreme changes that wont possibly fullfill the fearmongering we are using in hopes of getting what we want.

Or we should be just subscribing to Mats claims of how ESO "story mode" gained the game some 2,5 k million active players.

See, sarcasm is really the lowest of arts.

Youre the one subscribing to a factless opinion about the games health here bud. How convenient that you also seem to have the answer, one that would draw the least amount of players in, to save this game from the inevitable death you seem to preach.

Linaleah · December 2017

on one hand, OPTIONAL hardmode zones would be fantastic. and when I say optional, they would come in 2 difficulties the same way dungeons currently come in 2 difficulties. would keep current zones as they are for those of us that like to play in a relaxed fashion, while giving challenge to those who want challenge.

on the other hand... whenever this topic comes up, elitist jerks come out of the woodwork and start pooping their derision all over the "dirty casuals" at which point the petty b... in me goes "nope, make it even easier instead, because I don't want those jerks to be rewarded for being jerks"

and we are back to an impasse.

DosPanchos · December 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

This would be cool, it has been done, it could be done again but it never will unfortunately

Craglorn was such zone. And to everyone bringing up the "look how unpopular it was" argument...do you really think it was because of the difficulty? Vet dungeons - well dlc ones at least - are hard. Vet trials are hard. Vet MA is hard. Is this content empty? The endgame community may not be at its peak but we're getting a new trial what, every second update? And MA is still ever popular(even if not loved). Because ZOS actually provided incentive for doing this content. BiS gear, leaderboards, overall decent rewards, infinite replayability, etc.

Craglorn now...let's see...atrocious xp - once they nerfed grinding there you could literally do ANYTHING in the game including fishingand get more experience than from Craglorn. 1000% useless loot, plus iirc quests actually rewarded you with GREEN gear. Really Zenimax? A purple temper may not be the top of my dreams either, but GREEN? What else did it have going for it...Replayability? Nope, while there were repeatable dailies there was 0 incentive to ever do them again for aforementioned reasons.
And last but not least, the amazing quest instancing. Not just you needed 3-4 people in random places JUST to stand on pads for you in order to progress, but you needed people on the very same step of the very same quest as you or you were unable to progress. I don't know what bright soul came up with that design but I sure as hell hope he's been fired. That on top of aforementioned reasons(which didn't exactly incentive people to hang out there) made actually completing it a miracle. And then it took them MONTHS to fix that godmode awful instancing. This should've been fixed on day one, maybe week one at most.

Craglorn at its launch still stays one of my favourite experiences in ESO - I was lucky enough to do it with a group of friends who cared about fun and story more than about rewards, we had great fun together and improved our characters a lot over the course I feel. The graphics are amazing(Mage's staff ), the mechanics are actually really cool in a lot of places, but this all went to waste because of how ZOS handled it. It could've been the best thing in the game but now it's just remembered as a failure. It wasn't Crag's "difficulty" that killed it, it was all of the above reasons combined plus lack of reaction or even any communication from Zenimax.

For something like old Crag to actually work, Zenimax would have to get some backbone and actually firmly stand behind their view of the game/zone, provide very good(but not overpowered!) incentive to adventure there and do something to make grouping for it easier, perhaps a groupfinder equivalent of sorts(and obviously no "same quest same step only" stupidness). Unfortunately Zenimax has proven time and again this is not something they're capable of.

...I do miss old Craglorn SO much

Man that was a good post! Craglorn of the past was very nice, and the exact problem with today's Crag is horrible rewards.

DosPanchos · December 2017

deamor666eb17_ESO wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

deamor666eb17_ESO wrote: »

Take off all your gear except weapons. Don’t assign champion points.
Well done, you have now activated harder play mode.

Do even know what hard mode is?Overland needs to be made more difficult.

I’ve been here since beta.
This game was a lot harder back then. And you know what happened? A lot of people told ZOS that the game was too hard. So the game was made easier.

ZOS doen’t want to shoot themselves in the foot. Most people playing this game doesn’t want ”hard mode” game. Most of the playing population is ”casual”. ZOS is a company that wants to keep majority of its customers happy.

What comes to making a separate ”hard mode” for the content...
What would it require? How much development time would it need and how many would actually use it? How much profit would it make to the company?

"Most" is an assumption. The latest poll I saw on the forums suggested the player base (on the forums) enjoys a decent challenge, and I would guess many others like myself really enjoyed the game early on, but now feel most of the content is irrelevant. Considering each new dlc zone is much of the same irrelevant content again, and again, and again, at some point ZOS should address this watered down experience.

Prof_Bawbag · December 2017

Appleblade wrote: »

Why always the resistance to suggested optional modes? The main ES games have difficulty sliders. It’s lore friendly, so to speak . I’m not even a BiS end game player and I’d like this.

Look at Borderlands for an example. It even warns the world has gotten harder when someone joins your coop group. It changes the stats on the fly. More “badass” enemies spawn. Yes, the game actually calls them that.

My approach would be easy, medium hard. Groups of three enempmie become four or five on medium. Hard gives you bunches like in group dungeons. Stats go up. The use their better attacks more often. If you take too long reinforcements spawn. And to be cheaper, they’d be different instances.

I don’t think anyone is looking for Dark Souls or every trash mob fight to be an epic battle- just let us dial stuff up if we want without silly stuff like self nerfing.

Maybe just do delves and quest dungeons because they’re likely easier to instance.

The difference between BL2 and ESO is BL2 has better enemy spacing and pacing too, whilst you're tripping over enemies every 3 steps in most places in eso. BL is also entirely centred around combat. I wouldn't actually lose any sleep if enemies were buffed, but they really would have to thin out the heard so to speak. It already gets a bit irritating at times when almost everywhere has a group of enemy npcs. It's worse in Morrowind, especially the delves as there's obviously faster respawn times within the content.

DieAlteHexe · December 2017

DosPanchos wrote: »

deamor666eb17_ESO wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

deamor666eb17_ESO wrote: »

Take off all your gear except weapons. Don’t assign champion points.
Well done, you have now activated harder play mode.

Do even know what hard mode is?Overland needs to be made more difficult.

I’ve been here since beta.
This game was a lot harder back then. And you know what happened? A lot of people told ZOS that the game was too hard. So the game was made easier.

ZOS doen’t want to shoot themselves in the foot. Most people playing this game doesn’t want ”hard mode” game. Most of the playing population is ”casual”. ZOS is a company that wants to keep majority of its customers happy.

What comes to making a separate ”hard mode” for the content...
What would it require? How much development time would it need and how many would actually use it? How much profit would it make to the company?

"Most" is an assumption. The latest poll I saw on the forums suggested the player base (on the forums) enjoys a decent challenge, and I would guess many others like myself really enjoyed the game early on, but now feel most of the content is irrelevant. Considering each new dlc zone is much of the same irrelevant content again, and again, and again, at some point ZOS should address this watered down experience.

So long as it is OPTIONAL, I'm all for it. The more options the merrier.

All the folks I know (birds of a feather, obviously) do NOT want added challenge. They're quite content with things as they are and many came back after not being best pleased with state of the game at release.

No one, save ZMax knows the actual numbers so claims made based on anything but those numbers are subject to skepticism.

DosPanchos · December 2017

ArchMikem wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

deamor666eb17_ESO wrote: »

Take off all your gear except weapons. Don’t assign champion points.
Well done, you have now activated harder play mode.

Do even know what hard mode is?Overland needs to be made more difficult.

No, it doesnt need to be. You want it to be. Overland is the prep school to end game group content. Unless youre suggesting there be separate instances for players, id suggest you take a look at all those low levels already running around taking 5min just to defeat a single trash mob. You want to make life even harder on them?

Good point. ZOS should include LA/HA weaving in their tutorial. It's one of the key mechanics in the game yet goes completely unnoticed by noobs. Mastering weaving early on will help beginners with the content.

Another suggestion is to emphasize noob friendly areas. I believe this used to exist at first...

Arv_Morvis · December 2017

Since i can't really relate to what you more experienced lot consider should be hard mode i can instead give you a perspective of what a newer player would consider as "hard" mode

Well the other guy found out first i was just watching and taking note

DosPanchos · December 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I'm all outta Amen, but I just got a shipment of 'screw you' if your interested.

Seriously though. People have put it better. A schism in the community is a good way of describing it.

Im sure you'd hate to create a schism in the community...

MLGProPlayer · December 2017

madchuska83 wrote: »

It's called Craglorn.

That's just one zone (and only half of it is "hard mode").