DK needs their wings fixed https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/382340/dk-wings-bugged-again/p1

All this is true. At least stam DK's still have a place in end game trials though. And top dps at that. Magicka DK's get shoved aside because of stam DK's. "Oh you take up a stam dk spot." Heard that countless times now. Always fun to pull 51k dps on first boss in vMoL only to have a stam dk show you 65k LoL. Been maining a magdk for 2 years now. I have 13 other dps toons but my fav has always been magdk. The point is, magicka DK's need love in pve and pvp. Very worried about this next step you all take with the class, if any. : /. They are on a very slippery slope. But yea, everyone should just go play mag sorc right?

@Nelson_Rebel
Could you please post the video or article where he said that? id be interested to read/watch it.

Hopefully DK will get a lot of buffs and brought up to speed. Gina said they are looking to revamp every class to follow a format similar to warden where youll have damage, support, and heals tree.

Id love for dragons blood to be a great burst heal for mag and stam with additional minor (not major) effects so it stacks with our potions, or simply give us back stam/mag depending upon morph like the warden netch.

Id like mag dk to gain minor heroism in someway, stam dk is able to gain it through heroic slash and we also have werewolf hide. Also stam dk has the potential (not sure why one would but we can) wear tavas in medium to generate ultimate.
Mag dk has no way aside from wearing 5pc shalks to gain minor heroism. As ultimate is what a dk relies on for burst and sustain we should have a good reliable way to generate it more quickly.

Elder dragon passive needs an overhaul, 5% health regen? pls even if we weren't forced to go vampire (which almost entirely erases this passive from existence) that is a bad passive anyway. how about instead we do something to aid sustain, or maybe we could go with a passive that reduces incoming fire and poison damage? perhaps even something generic like sorc or warden have like "increases damage by x% for each class ability on bar'?

leap needs to be fixed, when it works it puts in work but occasionally ill end up with my wings sticking out of the ground, ultimate drained and nothing happens.

chains also need to be fixed. the reason it was changed in the first place was cause people were using it to get into keeps that didn't have the walls down yet. but now a days I don't see any dk mag or stam using the morph that pulls you to the target, so get rid of it. give us a poison chain with additional effects, (maybe minor defile? or a bleed effect?) and keep the mag morph as unrelenting grip. now make it so anything can be pulled. if a dk runs up to a keep and is taking all that damage from the opponents, he should be able to chain them and rip them off the wall. its only fair, how can you have ranged attackers launching attacks at you then dipping out of line of sight when you go to hit them. let them be pulled off the wall!

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Stam DK has no means to consistently kill competent players on a build that has the necessary open world utility.

You have to either give up your ONLY burst heal or your mobility(or run medium, which has awful synergy with SnB a sDK staple whose gross over performance is tied to both DK builds). Mag DK then has either superior healing or mobility(because mist form is better than standing still in roots... barely) with more pressure but less burst(don’t act like leap, inhale explosion, power lash isn’t useful burst tho)

Mist... Oh nonono. 7th, vigor and FM give pretty good healing, not burst, but good none the less.

Aye, MagDK can have good burst, but sacrifices defense for it.

StamDK has better mobility, better damage in heavy and better sustain. (HA, asylum2h, ww hide+ bloodspawn synergising well.) But MDK has better healing, pressure and CC. Making them better for duels where they can force dots and take less damage, but much much worse in openworld PvP vs multiple opponents requiring better sustain and mobility to win.

My vigor tooltip after major mending is 19 K that plus lingerings allows me to tank pretty good on Stam dk without block. Two dots in claw and noxious with an execute for pressure. Also add in heal debuff.

scipionumatia wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

The stam version is hurting much more atm ... Magicka is superior to stam atm... major mending hit stam version much harder.. changes to ingenious hit stam harder... battle roar nerfs hit stam harder... stam nerfs hit stam harder...fire Damage is superior to poison damage... I could go on and on...

Wut?

Stam Dk has the highest PvE parse in the game. They already are very powerful in PvP.
Buffing stam dk is gonna corner the stamina DD market into Only DK’s. They have access to mobility, executes, and Range.

Mag DK= No pvp burst, our only form of defense is blocking, our sustainability Relies almost ENTIRELY on ultimate use because heavy attacks on Magic is slow, unreliable, and weak. Our mobility is non existent, our DoT’s are weak and purgable, not to mention out healed by a single heal.

mDK>>>sDK in pvp

Nope. StamDKs have more mobility, they have executes, and they have Seventh Legion on their side (which isn't a fair comparison). In PVE and open world PVP- they're in a better spot.

Regardless, though, let's get back on topic. If we sit here and argue which version of this extremely nerfed class is better- we're still hurting ourselves. Both Stam and Mag DKs need to offer ways that ZoS can improve our class.

The major mending nerf hurt us both.
The battle roar nerf hurt us both.
The broken Y Axis hurts us both for Leap and Chains (and apparently whips now).
Our wings are broken because they don't reflect everything that they should.
The costs of our ability are too high.
The blatant nerf to Fossilize left us hanging. They should've at least buffed Stone Fist. Hell- I offer that ZoS should make Stone Giant cause flame damage with a small amount of splash damage. They should also make Obsidian Shard cost stamina and do physical damage so that StamDKs have a specialized heal.

The StamDK vs MagDK argument is like a one-armed man arguing with a one-legged man about who's more handicapped. Let's just focus on improving both of our quality of gaming.

THANK YOU
stam and mag DK are at the bottom of the barrel atm, time for some sweet sweet Dk love. the benefit I'm seeing from playing severely nerfed classes is it makes me a better player cause I have less to rely on.

Yes mag DK are the bottom lol yet they finished 1and 2 in the last dueling tournament ... Mag DKs are

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

The stam version is hurting much more atm ... Magicka is superior to stam atm... major mending hit stam version much harder.. changes to ingenious hit stam harder... battle roar nerfs hit stam harder... stam nerfs hit stam harder...fire Damage is superior to poison damage... I could go on and on...

Wut?

Stam Dk has the highest PvE parse in the game. They already are very powerful in PvP.
Buffing stam dk is gonna corner the stamina DD market into Only DK’s. They have access to mobility, executes, and Range.

Mag DK= No pvp burst, our only form of defense is blocking, our sustainability Relies almost ENTIRELY on ultimate use because heavy attacks on Magic is slow, unreliable, and weak. Our mobility is non existent, our DoT’s are weak and purgable, not to mention out healed by a single heal.

Everything you listed is available to every class in the game in the stam realm... We are talking PVP ... my magicka dk will own on my stam version at the moment .. Magicka DKs are very strong in the small man and dueling scene... not sure what you are talking about there lol

Anything a mag dk does in small man and dueling is better done by stam DK. Our only previous saving grace was our CC combo’s. Which are now so pathetic because we have no mobility to use our tiny dinosaur arm range skills. lol not sure what you’re talking about.


If your mag dk owns your stam dk, then you are playing stam dk so wrong lol

Really UMM where are the stam DKs in the duels ...maybe everyone else is playing one wrong to..

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

scipionumatia wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

The stam version is hurting much more atm ... Magicka is superior to stam atm... major mending hit stam version much harder.. changes to ingenious hit stam harder... battle roar nerfs hit stam harder... stam nerfs hit stam harder...fire Damage is superior to poison damage... I could go on and on...

Wut?

Stam Dk has the highest PvE parse in the game. They already are very powerful in PvP.
Buffing stam dk is gonna corner the stamina DD market into Only DK’s. They have access to mobility, executes, and Range.

Mag DK= No pvp burst, our only form of defense is blocking, our sustainability Relies almost ENTIRELY on ultimate use because heavy attacks on Magic is slow, unreliable, and weak. Our mobility is non existent, our DoT’s are weak and purgable, not to mention out healed by a single heal.

mDK>>>sDK in pvp

Nope. StamDKs have more mobility, they have executes, and they have Seventh Legion on their side (which isn't a fair comparison). In PVE and open world PVP- they're in a better spot.

Regardless, though, let's get back on topic. If we sit here and argue which version of this extremely nerfed class is better- we're still hurting ourselves. Both Stam and Mag DKs need to offer ways that ZoS can improve our class.

The major mending nerf hurt us both.
The battle roar nerf hurt us both.
The broken Y Axis hurts us both for Leap and Chains (and apparently whips now).
Our wings are broken because they don't reflect everything that they should.
The costs of our ability are too high.
The blatant nerf to Fossilize left us hanging. They should've at least buffed Stone Fist. Hell- I offer that ZoS should make Stone Giant cause flame damage with a small amount of splash damage. They should also make Obsidian Shard cost stamina and do physical damage so that StamDKs have a specialized heal.

The StamDK vs MagDK argument is like a one-armed man arguing with a one-legged man about who's more handicapped. Let's just focus on improving both of our quality of gaming.

THANK YOU
stam and mag DK are at the bottom of the barrel atm, time for some sweet sweet Dk love. the benefit I'm seeing from playing severely nerfed classes is it makes me a better player cause I have less to rely on.

Yes mag DK are the bottom lol yet they finished 1and 2 in the last dueling tournament ... Mag DKs are

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

The stam version is hurting much more atm ... Magicka is superior to stam atm... major mending hit stam version much harder.. changes to ingenious hit stam harder... battle roar nerfs hit stam harder... stam nerfs hit stam harder...fire Damage is superior to poison damage... I could go on and on...

Wut?

Stam Dk has the highest PvE parse in the game. They already are very powerful in PvP.
Buffing stam dk is gonna corner the stamina DD market into Only DK’s. They have access to mobility, executes, and Range.

Mag DK= No pvp burst, our only form of defense is blocking, our sustainability Relies almost ENTIRELY on ultimate use because heavy attacks on Magic is slow, unreliable, and weak. Our mobility is non existent, our DoT’s are weak and purgable, not to mention out healed by a single heal.

Everything you listed is available to every class in the game in the stam realm... We are talking PVP ... my magicka dk will own on my stam version at the moment .. Magicka DKs are very strong in the small man and dueling scene... not sure what you are talking about there lol

Anything a mag dk does in small man and dueling is better done by stam DK. Our only previous saving grace was our CC combo’s. Which are now so pathetic because we have no mobility to use our tiny dinosaur arm range skills. lol not sure what you’re talking about.


If your mag dk owns your stam dk, then you are playing stam dk so wrong lol

Really UMM where are the stam DKs in the duels ...maybe everyone else is playing one wrong to..

@Durham

So, you would base 99% of ESO (all the PVE and open world PVP content) off the fact that mDKs are good at 1v1 dueling in a 28m diameter?

I digress, again, that we're not focusing on StamDK vs MagDK. We're talking about improving both stam and mag DKs. Every time people argue StamDK VS MagDK- it distracts away from the issues at hand: Improving the quality of the class skills for all DKs.

I would like more Stam morphs. Like a poison whip, maybe green dragon blood to be stamina. Some kind of stone fist stamina morph. I'd like to see eruption or other morph do something useful.

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

beetleklee wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Let’s be even further honest with this


We know wrobel explicitly stated he didn’t want MagDk to be a viable end-game Damage dealer. He called them just a “fun” setup to play. And he WANTS to punish any sort of damage whatsoever on a DK for magic setups. This has ONLY enforced the “hold block” mentality because the MagDK’s have been progressively debilitated and grinded down to an useless nuisance class setup.



If they nerf blocking by any means they will either have to update all the DK’s passive. Or everyone will have to just quit playing mag dk (if they haven’t already) It’s gotten so pathetic now seeing mag dk’s having to waddle anywhere to accomplish anything doing so many bar swaps to apply dots in a vain and wasted attempt to pressure their enemies as they are either purged, shielded through, or easily outhealed by a single heal.

It’s almost laughable if it wasn’t so sad

Why MagDK in particular? Why do all the other classes get to have both stam and mag setups but somehow MagDK is not allowed to be viable?

If he really said that, that uh...grinds my gears.
I love MagDK and will hold onto mine because I'm stubborn but I'm switching to playing my StamDK more for PVE.
And yeah, in open world PVP my DOTs just get purged all the time.

Yes he really said that.


His whole reasoning is flawed, but basically he likes having the classes only fill certain end game roles. And because warden was coming he wanted to bring DK’s down to have them come in. Which hurt both Dk’s and templars, but ultimately hurt Dk’s much more. The Templars class has great sustainability and skill usage still. The Dk never had it good to begin with since patch 1.6

This is the culmination of the ultimate result. The predicament Dk’s have now been forced into

Gah. What's the point in having all weapon lines open to all classes if you only want certain classes to fill certain roles?
Like if he wants DKs to only be tanks, then why let them use lines other than heavy armor and sword and board? Lol...

Lexxypwns wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Stam DK has no means to consistently kill competent players on a build that has the necessary open world utility.

You have to either give up your ONLY burst heal or your mobility(or run medium, which has awful synergy with SnB a sDK staple whose gross over performance is tied to both DK builds). Mag DK then has either superior healing or mobility(because mist form is better than standing still in roots... barely) with more pressure but less burst(don’t act like leap, inhale explosion, power lash isn’t useful burst tho)

Mist... Oh nonono. 7th, vigor and FM give pretty good healing, not burst, but good none the less.

Aye, MagDK can have good burst, but sacrifices defense for it.

StamDK has better mobility, better damage in heavy and better sustain. (HA, asylum2h, ww hide+ bloodspawn synergising well.) But MDK has better healing, pressure and CC. Making them better for duels where they can force dots and take less damage, but much much worse in openworld PvP vs multiple opponents requiring better sustain and mobility to win.

If you’re running without a burst heal you’re only killing total trash cans when outnumbered. mDK is drastically better in outnumbered scenarios because the native aoe allows you to easily damage everyone then cherry pick the squishiest to deliver burst to. Don’t forget mDK has 2 big heals, can use inhale to get decent healing in aoe situations and an offensive ultimate that also works as a don’t die button. Access to aoe maim on melee targets and a reflect for pesky ranged enemies.

A few bug fixes and an increase to fossilize range will put mDK in a great spot as long as the block changes aren’t catastrophic

Little late but eh,

NB, stamplar, stamsorc etc don't run burst heals, and stamDK doesn't 100% need to what with all the extra from 7th, and occasionally vitality pots. Though I wish it did.

MagDK is easily one of the worst classes for 1vX PvP, around magicka templar level. Reflect is trash against all but snipe spammers and a single NB. Bird/beam ignores it, status effects and dots go through, and aren't reflected, only the direct damage and cc in most cases. (So clench still dots me, but not the caster, and flare defiles me) Sometimes it doesn't function, sometimes it doesn't refresh, it costs too much, and goes down near instantly against multiple targets.

They don't have the mobility to kite or move between targets efficiently, and mist is by far one of the worst abilities to use in that regard, making you a vegetable slowly getting beat down and losing mag. The only time it was good was with OP desert rose, hell, the only time DK was good was with OP desert rose.

Due to no execute its much more difficult to kill targets, aside from the mad squishy med armour builds, meaning more resources have to go into it, whereas with asylum 2h a SDK can execute, and get ulti+regen back which generally means much more sustain.

StamDK also has better sets, like seventh and WW hide, and better synergy with bloodspawn since the 1pc is more beneficial.

I'll admit talons and inhale are great, but holy hell are they expensive, using them costs 7k mag and often is straight outhealed and using choking costs lots of damage.

The good thing about a magDK is that they can deal A LOT of sustained forced damage against a singular target and keep them locked, but if you have multiple, god forbid multiple+ranged, you are going to get snared, and out ranged, and bugged until your run out of resources and die. Unless of course your potato farming, but that's no fun.

Savos_Saren wrote: »

boombazookajd wrote: »

If I had a nickel for every one of these posts...

You'd have a nickel. Because it's my post with a pun.

Fine. There's your awesome. It's not what you said, it's what these posts become..going from a constructive op to a huge B.W.M.G session.

boombazookajd wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

boombazookajd wrote: »

If I had a nickel for every one of these posts...

You'd have a nickel. Because it's my post with a pun.

Fine. There's your awesome. It's not what you said, it's what these posts become..going from a constructive op to a huge B.W.M.G session.

BWMG?