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Forcepulse Cost
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BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"DK godmode." "Whip is OP."
They have been subpar since the great nerfs of 1.6, with a brief rise in the desert rose, black rose meta, pre sustain nerf. Whip is good, no denial, though the undogeable is on powerlash, a procced attack which requires CC/offbalance, so can easily be negated. Other spammables are better depending, bird having a delay for burst, all undodgable and similar damage.
+Ninja whip
+1v1s?
+Leap (if it works)
-Block only viable defense nerfed. Wings UP and buggy as ***.
-Low mobility
-Low dmg due to tanky play style
-Very low sustain
-No defense against ranged anymore
If you think Mag DK is weak this patch you really haven't PvPed enough. I have never seen this many Mag DKs on console before. Very strong atm and possibly the best Magicka setup too since damage has gone up, which scales far better with tankiness through resistances than any damage shield.
The roots, man. And passive snare. Once they closed the distance once, they control the fight. Can never hit them, as they're always behind you.
Then there's the free 25% damage bonus on everything against 75% of Cyro population, on top of that ridiculous tankiness.
(>.>)
If you play vamp get used to the Flame damage penalty or learn to play without undeath healing ward spam that shouldn't be there in the first place.
It's pretty easy escaping a magdk that's not using chains.
Magblade cloaks and won't be caught, sorcs can streak away with no penalty if used with Dark Deal after every second streak, magplar laughs his ass off when the magdk tries to attack him, magwarden just heals through and kills the magdk with shalks , bugs and bird spam where the main defence of dks again ranged builds is ignored. Magdk vs magdk have a fair fight, Stamchars can Run away except for stamdk because they are forced to run heavy but who even plays stamdk? Just go stamwarden and be better in every aspect you could ask for.
Magdk is only as strong as the enemy is dumb enough to be locked down by it.2 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Whip is OP, there's no denying that. It's a problem.
They definitely need to look into increasing its cost and even decreasing its damage, as of now completely broken skill. It costing more than force pulse, of course makes no sense. I think whether or not force pulse needs to have its cost decreased, is debatable.
well - then maybe lets talk about surprise attack, dizzying swing/wrecking blow, Executioner etc. you get spammed by all these stam players. Dodge rolling 10 times in between that you cannot even attack them...
I don't even want to start a discussion concerning poison injection...
I consider stam to be so vastly overpowered compared to mag that I don't even consider mag to be viable for roles other than heals at this point. For heals, mag is just fine.
Other than that, stam blows mag out of the water by such a large extent that the current meta is just completely unbalanced.
Are you talking about PvE or PvP?
It would be wrong on both sides anyway.
nah.
Great answer. Those are the posts great discussions are based on
I guess by now it's clear you don't play PvP or else you would be agreeing with me, but I was specifically referring to PvP.
Stam is dominant in PvE too. Their DPS is a lot higher there as well!
This all makes for a meta that is terribly unbalanced, and for anyone trying to play mag as a dd whether it be on PvE or PvP, you will be at an inherent disadvantage and left out in the woods
Given all this, a rebalance and buffing of mag's damage potential is necessary.
I play both PvE and PvP, stam has higher single target but AoE damage of mag is still much higher and 4/6 trials are more than 90% AoE fights where you want magdds. Also you need ranged DDs for certain encounters, Maw 1st Boss, the Mage.
Also Ranged DDs can do their rota easier as there are more mechanics for meeles than ranged which leads to higher damage in some encounters.
I've been playing PvP since the closed Beta. I encountered the humangod dks, unkillable Sorcs with 50k shield and no streak penalty, vigor being unlocked at pvp rank 30, unkillable malubeth tanks, storm knight zerg busters and i played during proc set plague
I can tell you there is no class in pvp that is totally outclassed except for stamdk that is just a shade of stamwarden.
Magplar needs better ults, Soulassault needs to be nerfed, incap needs it's stun removed and poisons need to be kicked out of the game.
But no magicka builds perform great.
Magnbs are strong from Solo up to zerg play, magsorcs never lost their viability, magplars are still the best healers ( after scaling fix they are back at being strong dds ) Magdk is stronger than it ever was after Patch 1.6, magwarden isn't weaker than stamwarden atm, no there is really no reason to buff magicka or nerf stamina overall.
@BohnT Are you talking about sweeps and radiant?? When did ZOS fix the scaling?? Been broken since Morrowind and I can´t remember any patchnotes about any fix
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BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Whip is OP, there's no denying that. It's a problem.
They definitely need to look into increasing its cost and even decreasing its damage, as of now completely broken skill. It costing more than force pulse, of course makes no sense. I think whether or not force pulse needs to have its cost decreased, is debatable.
well - then maybe lets talk about surprise attack, dizzying swing/wrecking blow, Executioner etc. you get spammed by all these stam players. Dodge rolling 10 times in between that you cannot even attack them...
I don't even want to start a discussion concerning poison injection...
I consider stam to be so vastly overpowered compared to mag that I don't even consider mag to be viable for roles other than heals at this point. For heals, mag is just fine.
Other than that, stam blows mag out of the water by such a large extent that the current meta is just completely unbalanced.
Are you talking about PvE or PvP?
It would be wrong on both sides anyway.
nah.
Great answer. Those are the posts great discussions are based on
I guess by now it's clear you don't play PvP or else you would be agreeing with me, but I was specifically referring to PvP.
Stam is dominant in PvE too. Their DPS is a lot higher there as well!
This all makes for a meta that is terribly unbalanced, and for anyone trying to play mag as a dd whether it be on PvE or PvP, you will be at an inherent disadvantage and left out in the woods
Given all this, a rebalance and buffing of mag's damage potential is necessary.
I play both PvE and PvP, stam has higher single target but AoE damage of mag is still much higher and 4/6 trials are more than 90% AoE fights where you want magdds. Also you need ranged DDs for certain encounters, Maw 1st Boss, the Mage.
Also Ranged DDs can do their rota easier as there are more mechanics for meeles than ranged which leads to higher damage in some encounters.
I've been playing PvP since the closed Beta. I encountered the humangod dks, unkillable Sorcs with 50k shield and no streak penalty, vigor being unlocked at pvp rank 30, unkillable malubeth tanks, storm knight zerg busters and i played during proc set plague
I can tell you there is no class in pvp that is totally outclassed except for stamdk that is just a shade of stamwarden.
Magplar needs better ults, Soulassault needs to be nerfed, incap needs it's stun removed and poisons need to be kicked out of the game.
But no magicka builds perform great.
Magnbs are strong from Solo up to zerg play, magsorcs never lost their viability, magplars are still the best healers ( after scaling fix they are back at being strong dds ) Magdk is stronger than it ever was after Patch 1.6, magwarden isn't weaker than stamwarden atm, no there is really no reason to buff magicka or nerf stamina overall.
@BohnT Are you talking about sweeps and radiant?? When did ZOS fix the scaling?? Been broken since Morrowind and I can´t remember any patchnotes about any fix
Oh I ment that they will be good again after they fix it i'll change the wording to make it understandable1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"DK godmode." "Whip is OP."
They have been subpar since the great nerfs of 1.6, with a brief rise in the desert rose, black rose meta, pre sustain nerf. Whip is good, no denial, though the undogeable is on powerlash, a procced attack which requires CC/offbalance, so can easily be negated. Other spammables are better depending, bird having a delay for burst, all undodgable and similar damage.
+Ninja whip
+1v1s?
+Leap (if it works)
-Block only viable defense nerfed. Wings UP and buggy as ***.
-Low mobility
-Low dmg due to tanky play style
-Very low sustain
-No defense against ranged anymore
If you think Mag DK is weak this patch you really haven't PvPed enough. I have never seen this many Mag DKs on console before. Very strong atm and possibly the best Magicka setup too since damage has gone up, which scales far better with tankiness through resistances than any damage shield.
The roots, man. And passive snare. Once they closed the distance once, they control the fight. Can never hit them, as they're always behind you.
Then there's the free 25% damage bonus on everything against 75% of Cyro population, on top of that ridiculous tankiness.
(>.>)
Yup. In the past they were rare to see and only skilled players could make Mag DKs work. Now they’re common in PvP and truly strong, having benefitted massively from buffs overtime and the CP power creep.
I’ve seen entire small groups of Mag DKs now and they dominate in BGs. If not Mag DKs it’s 2H+1H/S Stam builds.Edited by Vaoh on December 18, 2017 11:01AM2 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭"DK godmode." "Whip is OP."
They have been subpar since the great nerfs of 1.6, with a brief rise in the desert rose, black rose meta, pre sustain nerf. Whip is good, no denial, though the undogeable is on powerlash, a procced attack which requires CC/offbalance, so can easily be negated. Other spammables are better depending, bird having a delay for burst, all undodgable and similar damage.
+Ninja whip
+1v1s?
+Leap (if it works)
-Block only viable defense nerfed. Wings UP and buggy as ***.
-Low mobility
-Low dmg due to tanky play style
-Very low sustain
-No defense against ranged anymore
If you think Mag DK is weak this patch you really haven't PvPed enough. I have never seen this many Mag DKs on console before. Very strong atm and possibly the best Magicka setup too since damage has gone up, which scales far better with tankiness through resistances than any damage shield.
The roots, man. And passive snare. Once they closed the distance once, they control the fight. Can never hit them, as they're always behind you.
Then there's the free 25% damage bonus on everything against 75% of Cyro population, on top of that ridiculous tankiness.
(>.>)
If you play vamp get used to the Flame damage penalty or learn to play without undeath healing ward spam that shouldn't be there in the first place.
It's pretty easy escaping a magdk that's not using chains.
Magblade cloaks and won't be caught, sorcs can streak away with no penalty if used with Dark Deal after every second streak, magplar laughs his ass off when the magdk tries to attack him, magwarden just heals through and kills the magdk with shalks , bugs and bird spam where the main defence of dks again ranged builds is ignored. Magdk vs magdk have a fair fight, Stamchars can Run away except for stamdk because they are forced to run heavy but who even plays stamdk? Just go stamwarden and be better in every aspect you could ask for.
Magdk is only as strong as the enemy is dumb enough to be locked down by it.
That's the problem I have. Running away isn't a satisfying solution.0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"DK godmode." "Whip is OP."
They have been subpar since the great nerfs of 1.6, with a brief rise in the desert rose, black rose meta, pre sustain nerf. Whip is good, no denial, though the undogeable is on powerlash, a procced attack which requires CC/offbalance, so can easily be negated. Other spammables are better depending, bird having a delay for burst, all undodgable and similar damage.
+Ninja whip
+1v1s?
+Leap (if it works)
-Block only viable defense nerfed. Wings UP and buggy as ***.
-Low mobility
-Low dmg due to tanky play style
-Very low sustain
-No defense against ranged anymore
If you think Mag DK is weak this patch you really haven't PvPed enough. I have never seen this many Mag DKs on console before. Very strong atm and possibly the best Magicka setup too since damage has gone up, which scales far better with tankiness through resistances than any damage shield.
The roots, man. And passive snare. Once they closed the distance once, they control the fight. Can never hit them, as they're always behind you.
Then there's the free 25% damage bonus on everything against 75% of Cyro population, on top of that ridiculous tankiness.
(>.>)
If you play vamp get used to the Flame damage penalty or learn to play without undeath healing ward spam that shouldn't be there in the first place.
It's pretty easy escaping a magdk that's not using chains.
Magblade cloaks and won't be caught, sorcs can streak away with no penalty if used with Dark Deal after every second streak, magplar laughs his ass off when the magdk tries to attack him, magwarden just heals through and kills the magdk with shalks , bugs and bird spam where the main defence of dks again ranged builds is ignored. Magdk vs magdk have a fair fight, Stamchars can Run away except for stamdk because they are forced to run heavy but who even plays stamdk? Just go stamwarden and be better in every aspect you could ask for.
Magdk is only as strong as the enemy is dumb enough to be locked down by it.
That's the problem I have. Running away isn't a satisfying solution.
You won't have to run away from 95% of all magdks as it's pretty easy to fight them if you are anything other than stamplar or stamdk.
And if you meet that dk which is in the 5% be happy that he's a dk because that's one of 2 classes you can actually get away from.
0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭"DK godmode." "Whip is OP."
They have been subpar since the great nerfs of 1.6, with a brief rise in the desert rose, black rose meta, pre sustain nerf. Whip is good, no denial, though the undogeable is on powerlash, a procced attack which requires CC/offbalance, so can easily be negated. Other spammables are better depending, bird having a delay for burst, all undodgable and similar damage.
+Ninja whip
+1v1s?
+Leap (if it works)
-Block only viable defense nerfed. Wings UP and buggy as ***.
-Low mobility
-Low dmg due to tanky play style
-Very low sustain
-No defense against ranged anymore
If you think Mag DK is weak this patch you really haven't PvPed enough. I have never seen this many Mag DKs on console before. Very strong atm and possibly the best Magicka setup too since damage has gone up, which scales far better with tankiness through resistances than any damage shield.
The roots, man. And passive snare. Once they closed the distance once, they control the fight. Can never hit them, as they're always behind you.
Then there's the free 25% damage bonus on everything against 75% of Cyro population, on top of that ridiculous tankiness.
(>.>)
If you play vamp get used to the Flame damage penalty or learn to play without undeath healing ward spam that shouldn't be there in the first place.
It's pretty easy escaping a magdk that's not using chains.
Magblade cloaks and won't be caught, sorcs can streak away with no penalty if used with Dark Deal after every second streak, magplar laughs his ass off when the magdk tries to attack him, magwarden just heals through and kills the magdk with shalks , bugs and bird spam where the main defence of dks again ranged builds is ignored. Magdk vs magdk have a fair fight, Stamchars can Run away except for stamdk because they are forced to run heavy but who even plays stamdk? Just go stamwarden and be better in every aspect you could ask for.
Magdk is only as strong as the enemy is dumb enough to be locked down by it.
That's the problem I have. Running away isn't a satisfying solution.
You won't have to run away from 95% of all magdks as it's pretty easy to fight them if you are anything other than stamplar or stamdk.
And if you meet that dk which is in the 5% be happy that he's a dk because that's one of 2 classes you can actually get away from.
How?0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"DK godmode." "Whip is OP."
They have been subpar since the great nerfs of 1.6, with a brief rise in the desert rose, black rose meta, pre sustain nerf. Whip is good, no denial, though the undogeable is on powerlash, a procced attack which requires CC/offbalance, so can easily be negated. Other spammables are better depending, bird having a delay for burst, all undodgable and similar damage.
+Ninja whip
+1v1s?
+Leap (if it works)
-Block only viable defense nerfed. Wings UP and buggy as ***.
-Low mobility
-Low dmg due to tanky play style
-Very low sustain
-No defense against ranged anymore
If you think Mag DK is weak this patch you really haven't PvPed enough. I have never seen this many Mag DKs on console before. Very strong atm and possibly the best Magicka setup too since damage has gone up, which scales far better with tankiness through resistances than any damage shield.
The roots, man. And passive snare. Once they closed the distance once, they control the fight. Can never hit them, as they're always behind you.
Then there's the free 25% damage bonus on everything against 75% of Cyro population, on top of that ridiculous tankiness.
(>.>)
If you play vamp get used to the Flame damage penalty or learn to play without undeath healing ward spam that shouldn't be there in the first place.
It's pretty easy escaping a magdk that's not using chains.
Magblade cloaks and won't be caught, sorcs can streak away with no penalty if used with Dark Deal after every second streak, magplar laughs his ass off when the magdk tries to attack him, magwarden just heals through and kills the magdk with shalks , bugs and bird spam where the main defence of dks again ranged builds is ignored. Magdk vs magdk have a fair fight, Stamchars can Run away except for stamdk because they are forced to run heavy but who even plays stamdk? Just go stamwarden and be better in every aspect you could ask for.
Magdk is only as strong as the enemy is dumb enough to be locked down by it.
That's the problem I have. Running away isn't a satisfying solution.
You won't have to run away from 95% of all magdks as it's pretty easy to fight them if you are anything other than stamplar or stamdk.
And if you meet that dk which is in the 5% be happy that he's a dk because that's one of 2 classes you can actually get away from.
How?
Magsorc: Curse and force pulse are your best friends. No magdk will keep up wings against a magsorc after he notices that the sorc isn't using his frags and wings aren't cheap they really aren't. Always keep your distance with streak and rune cage. Let him run after you this drains lots of stam and many people don't recognize it how much stam they lose while sprinting. Then nuke him with rune cage, curse, frags, fury and ult
Magplar: The easiest encounter you'll have on a magplar is magdk as you can completely ignore their main pressure with purge and a dk that can't use procced whips won't sustain long also you remove one of their best heals by purging embers.
It can take forever to kill the dk due to bugged scaling but you will never die if you know how to play on a magplar
Magwarden: Keep your buffs up, leeching vines are your best friend against magdk, and don't forget about your shimmering shield and the purge on netch. For the damage part birds ignore wings, shalks ignore block and bugs ignore block aswell but iirc they can be reflected.
Magblade: Kite with cloak and shade to avoid being locked down by fossilize and talons. Charge your will with la weaving and try to bring his wings down. Use Fear and your ults to pressure the dk, eventually he can't keep up the wings and that's when you want to nuke him
Stamsorc: Most stamsorcs use bleed builds atm with beast trap, lock the dk down with cc's and trap and stack your bleeds, try to evade as much as possible everytime the dk wastes a gcd with talons that don't hit you is a step to your triumph.
Stamnb: Go into the fight use your burst combo and disengage with cloak, never let yourself be caught by the dk. Repeat until you can kill the dk with one rota or you can kill him fast enough before he can kill you
Stamwarden: Keep your heals up, use shalks and always reverb the dk, if he pressures you just go defensive and wait until you can attack him again. Not that hard to win that encounter.
Stamplar/ Stamdk that's a hard encounter as stamdk lacks heal/ mobility and stamplar can't use it's spammable because of spicked armor. Your best bet is to pressure them and never let your health go below 70%.
That's how I deal with magdks. You have to adapt to every enemy but that's a good way to start thinking how to fight your enemy3 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Pretty useless in PvE appilcations or in ANY extended fightFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info1 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭kyle.wilson wrote: »DK God mode in pvp? If your talking about permablock builds, its the people attacking like idiots that make it difficult.
You have played in that last 2 years right?
Only a few good people play mag dk in pvp now. I don't consider block builds mag dk.
The reason force pulse is more expensive is that it is a ranged attack v the melee of the dk whip.
In dueling it is. In Open world DK suffersFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So what are the PvE reasons?
Should be obvious. Heavy attacking should not be a spammable and should be something used to augment your attacking with spammables like forcepulseFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info1 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Whip is OP, there's no denying that. It's a problem.
They definitely need to look into increasing its cost and even decreasing its damage, as of now completely broken skill. It costing more than force pulse, of course makes no sense. I think whether or not force pulse needs to have its cost decreased, is debatable.
I'm fine at leaving whip where it is. But Force Pulse needs a cost reductionFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Whip is OP, there's no denying that. It's a problem.
They definitely need to look into increasing its cost and even decreasing its damage, as of now completely broken skill. It costing more than force pulse, of course makes no sense. I think whether or not force pulse needs to have its cost decreased, is debatable.
I'm fine at leaving whip where it is. But Force Pulse needs a cost reduction
No it doesn't. It's fine where it is. You can apply all 3 Status effects with it. That's a strong dot + 8% damage increase + 15% lower damage dealt by the enemy.
Force pulse is fine how it is.
It costs 269 magicka more than whip but it still costs less than jabs.
Without anything Whip costs 2431 magicka while force pulse costs 2700 magicka.
Force pulse is ranged which is a huge advantage and it gives you access to all 3 status effects and the destro passives are really good.
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Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Whip does not return 3600 Magic on Mob death like Force Pulse does. Look at your Destro PassivesOr deal 10% extra penetration on targets, or have a chance to proc burning/concussion/chilled status effects.
Can we all please stop posting logical informative replies and just get back to why Forcepulse needs to be nerfed. Thanks.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Or can be casted from 28+ meters away.
yea like giving each elemental type it's own skill line and balancing the class abilities so stam/mag have more or less an equal representation.
But that's not going to happen, too many billable hours required lolMinno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
DoonerSeraph✭✭✭✭IMO whip should be stronger and better than pulse, class skills should be better that generic weapon skills since they are defining to the character playstyle.0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The only place a DK is strong is a 1v1 where, because its only one enemy, they can force the opponent to eat dots whilst taking minimal damage and exerting minimal resources. The way the defense of wings, sustain and mobility become such a hindrance that they are only good in such an enclosed scenario says something about the state.
I think pulse could use a cost decrease, that cost nerf was probably the worst change in the game honestly, making players weaker and forcing zerging for wins. Anything to fix that would help.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Heavy attacks are used so much because a) they return resources and b) they become stronger with high CP levels relative to skills, plus Maelstrom staves for magicka builds.
Not sure what that has to do with the topic, though. If you want to get rid of heavy attack meta, look at heavy attacks. Once that is dealt with and the meta adjusted you will see where sustain is at in different classes and on which mechanics it relies. A cost increase on another class's spammable "to make Sorcs feel better about themselves" helps no one.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Heavy attacks are used so much because a) they return resources and b) they become stronger with high CP levels relative to skills, plus Maelstrom staves for magicka builds.
Not sure what that has to do with the topic, though. If you want to get rid of heavy attack meta, look at heavy attacks. Once that is dealt with and the meta adjusted you will see where sustain is at in different classes and on which mechanics it relies. A cost increase on another class's spammable "to make Sorcs feel better about themselves" helps no one.
He is asking to reduce FP, not make whip costly, on the grounds that whip is better.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Heavy attacks are used so much because a) they return resources and b) they become stronger with high CP levels relative to skills, plus Maelstrom staves for magicka builds.
Not sure what that has to do with the topic, though. If you want to get rid of heavy attack meta, look at heavy attacks. Once that is dealt with and the meta adjusted you will see where sustain is at in different classes and on which mechanics it relies. A cost increase on another class's spammable "to make Sorcs feel better about themselves" helps no one.
He is asking to reduce FP, not make whip costly, on the grounds that whip is better.
Right, my bad. Point remains, though.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sounds like a sorcerer complaining
I'm a night blade actually. I don't even have a sorcFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0
