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• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – May 27, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EDT (20:00 UTC)
State of the Hybrid
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PS4_ZeColmeia✭✭✭✭✭
I think I mostly get what you are saying about CP: it costs you 2x as much because you have to invest in everything 2x. I would agree which is why I said around 1200 it won't matter because the difference in power between a pure and hybrid, CP wise, is soooo marginal it's not worth comparing. That then leaves it solely to resources, skills, stats and sets which we agree still favors focused, but is a likely closer to each other situation than we are currently.PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Pelinal's needs to equalize crit as well as spell/weapon damage.
There needs to be a larger selection of unique drops of Medium/Light armor sets that drop in their opposite jewelry enchantment (arcane, robust).
The builds would still lack penetration and armor passives for cost reduction/regen on one side of the equation or another leaving them less competitive compared to pure builds.
I am not suggesting hybrids would not be fun. Early days in the game stam builds were required to be hybrids unless they used only weapon line skills but that is why magicka was so strong then.
Slightly disagree. Penetration is very, very CP dependant which is why I'm saying we need to start accelerating CP growth.
Regen is true, but that is heavily dependant on your bar set up and recovery skills. Example: I use siphoning attacks. In a DW setup, I would use 1 stam skill to weave in every so often to alleviate resource drain. If I go lightning/DW setup its less of an issue on resources, you get the easy exploiter perk, and so you just use DW as a higher damage bar while lightning has the extra penetration.
It's a lot of balancing, but works once you get it. I personally think that CP is the biggest hamstring since it does such a great job buffing focused builds.
It doesn't matter the source of penetration. If your getting it from CP then it's costing you twice as many points as it would with a pure build.
The same can be said for CP in general. While not as harsh as it was pre-Morrowind, it's still splitting points between elemental and physical damage (and regen as mentioned previously).
The only reason I have mentioned or posted in this thread is that OP suggested hybrids are getting close to being competitive. They may be closer but there are huge barriers due to base game design.
I also don't thing Zos needs to make them competitive. Play as you want doesn't mean everything is equal. However, I am pleased Zos has made things better for hybrids.
That's the point I am making, they should not be equal, I don't have sustain issues as a hybrid because I can 2 or 3 resource pools so my damage shouldn't as high as a pure damage build that does have some sustain issues. In between now and 1200, I think the dev team should shorten the timeline from 510/30=17updates to 510/60=9updates which is roughly 2.5 to 3 years instead of 5 to 6 years. I mean I'd take 5 updates but that might too much too fast which ZOS doesn't do well on.PSN: ***___Chan (3 _s)
Hybrid, All-Role NB0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »
I think I mostly get what you are saying about CP: it costs you 2x as much because you have to invest in everything 2x. I would agree which is why I said around 1200 it won't matter because the difference in power between a pure and hybrid, CP wise, is soooo marginal it's not worth comparing. That then leaves it solely to resources, skills, stats and sets which we agree still favors focused, but is a likely closer to each other situation than we are currently.PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Pelinal's needs to equalize crit as well as spell/weapon damage.
There needs to be a larger selection of unique drops of Medium/Light armor sets that drop in their opposite jewelry enchantment (arcane, robust).
The builds would still lack penetration and armor passives for cost reduction/regen on one side of the equation or another leaving them less competitive compared to pure builds.
I am not suggesting hybrids would not be fun. Early days in the game stam builds were required to be hybrids unless they used only weapon line skills but that is why magicka was so strong then.
Slightly disagree. Penetration is very, very CP dependant which is why I'm saying we need to start accelerating CP growth.
Regen is true, but that is heavily dependant on your bar set up and recovery skills. Example: I use siphoning attacks. In a DW setup, I would use 1 stam skill to weave in every so often to alleviate resource drain. If I go lightning/DW setup its less of an issue on resources, you get the easy exploiter perk, and so you just use DW as a higher damage bar while lightning has the extra penetration.
It's a lot of balancing, but works once you get it. I personally think that CP is the biggest hamstring since it does such a great job buffing focused builds.
It doesn't matter the source of penetration. If your getting it from CP then it's costing you twice as many points as it would with a pure build.
The same can be said for CP in general. While not as harsh as it was pre-Morrowind, it's still splitting points between elemental and physical damage (and regen as mentioned previously).
The only reason I have mentioned or posted in this thread is that OP suggested hybrids are getting close to being competitive. They may be closer but there are huge barriers due to base game design.
I also don't thing Zos needs to make them competitive. Play as you want doesn't mean everything is equal. However, I am pleased Zos has made things better for hybrids.
That's the point I am making, they should not be equal, I don't have sustain issues as a hybrid because I can 2 or 3 resource pools so my damage shouldn't as high as a pure damage build that does have some sustain issues. In between now and 1200, I think the dev team should shorten the timeline from 510/30=17updates to 510/60=9updates which is roughly 2.5 to 3 years instead of 5 to 6 years. I mean I'd take 5 updates but that might too much too fast which ZOS doesn't do well on.
It's not that simple with sustain. On one hand everyone can find some use for both resource pools, on the other you can't stack cost reduction as well on a hybrid.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »
I think I mostly get what you are saying about CP: it costs you 2x as much because you have to invest in everything 2x. I would agree which is why I said around 1200 it won't matter because the difference in power between a pure and hybrid, CP wise, is soooo marginal it's not worth comparing. That then leaves it solely to resources, skills, stats and sets which we agree still favors focused, but is a likely closer to each other situation than we are currently.PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Pelinal's needs to equalize crit as well as spell/weapon damage.
There needs to be a larger selection of unique drops of Medium/Light armor sets that drop in their opposite jewelry enchantment (arcane, robust).
The builds would still lack penetration and armor passives for cost reduction/regen on one side of the equation or another leaving them less competitive compared to pure builds.
I am not suggesting hybrids would not be fun. Early days in the game stam builds were required to be hybrids unless they used only weapon line skills but that is why magicka was so strong then.
Slightly disagree. Penetration is very, very CP dependant which is why I'm saying we need to start accelerating CP growth.
Regen is true, but that is heavily dependant on your bar set up and recovery skills. Example: I use siphoning attacks. In a DW setup, I would use 1 stam skill to weave in every so often to alleviate resource drain. If I go lightning/DW setup its less of an issue on resources, you get the easy exploiter perk, and so you just use DW as a higher damage bar while lightning has the extra penetration.
It's a lot of balancing, but works once you get it. I personally think that CP is the biggest hamstring since it does such a great job buffing focused builds.
It doesn't matter the source of penetration. If your getting it from CP then it's costing you twice as many points as it would with a pure build.
The same can be said for CP in general. While not as harsh as it was pre-Morrowind, it's still splitting points between elemental and physical damage (and regen as mentioned previously).
The only reason I have mentioned or posted in this thread is that OP suggested hybrids are getting close to being competitive. They may be closer but there are huge barriers due to base game design.
I also don't thing Zos needs to make them competitive. Play as you want doesn't mean everything is equal. However, I am pleased Zos has made things better for hybrids.
That's the point I am making, they should not be equal, I don't have sustain issues as a hybrid because I can 2 or 3 resource pools so my damage shouldn't as high as a pure damage build that does have some sustain issues. In between now and 1200, I think the dev team should shorten the timeline from 510/30=17updates to 510/60=9updates which is roughly 2.5 to 3 years instead of 5 to 6 years. I mean I'd take 5 updates but that might too much too fast which ZOS doesn't do well on.
We are a few years from having 1200 CP to use.
I agree it's better than it was, just speaking to the comment in the OP about being competitive.0 -
Nightfall12✭✭✭✭✭I think Pelinals has its place, I just wish there was a way to get jewelry in these crafted sets. There are times when i want to combine this set with another crafted set, and can not get the 5 piece perk that is what Pel's is all about. On another toon i was having fun with Armor master while leveling it up, now i see that I am going to have to abandon that because once I hit 50 on that char, I will use some other sets and there will be no way i can complete the set with the other parts I have.Ummm stuff… about stuff…or something.0 -
PS4_ZeColmeia✭✭✭✭✭
I don't see the point in cost reduction if you have a return+an off pool. Don't get me wrong, I take every cost reduction / resource regen I can take, with the exception of jewelry unless I'm healing. But the whole point of being hybrid, well at least one point, is to avoid sustain issues by extending your resource pools. Example: If I have 34k Magicka + 21k Stamina I'm operating with the same pool as a Necropotence build of 50k Magicka.PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »
I think I mostly get what you are saying about CP: it costs you 2x as much because you have to invest in everything 2x. I would agree which is why I said around 1200 it won't matter because the difference in power between a pure and hybrid, CP wise, is soooo marginal it's not worth comparing. That then leaves it solely to resources, skills, stats and sets which we agree still favors focused, but is a likely closer to each other situation than we are currently.PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Pelinal's needs to equalize crit as well as spell/weapon damage.
There needs to be a larger selection of unique drops of Medium/Light armor sets that drop in their opposite jewelry enchantment (arcane, robust).
The builds would still lack penetration and armor passives for cost reduction/regen on one side of the equation or another leaving them less competitive compared to pure builds.
I am not suggesting hybrids would not be fun. Early days in the game stam builds were required to be hybrids unless they used only weapon line skills but that is why magicka was so strong then.
Slightly disagree. Penetration is very, very CP dependant which is why I'm saying we need to start accelerating CP growth.
Regen is true, but that is heavily dependant on your bar set up and recovery skills. Example: I use siphoning attacks. In a DW setup, I would use 1 stam skill to weave in every so often to alleviate resource drain. If I go lightning/DW setup its less of an issue on resources, you get the easy exploiter perk, and so you just use DW as a higher damage bar while lightning has the extra penetration.
It's a lot of balancing, but works once you get it. I personally think that CP is the biggest hamstring since it does such a great job buffing focused builds.
It doesn't matter the source of penetration. If your getting it from CP then it's costing you twice as many points as it would with a pure build.
The same can be said for CP in general. While not as harsh as it was pre-Morrowind, it's still splitting points between elemental and physical damage (and regen as mentioned previously).
The only reason I have mentioned or posted in this thread is that OP suggested hybrids are getting close to being competitive. They may be closer but there are huge barriers due to base game design.
I also don't thing Zos needs to make them competitive. Play as you want doesn't mean everything is equal. However, I am pleased Zos has made things better for hybrids.
That's the point I am making, they should not be equal, I don't have sustain issues as a hybrid because I can 2 or 3 resource pools so my damage shouldn't as high as a pure damage build that does have some sustain issues. In between now and 1200, I think the dev team should shorten the timeline from 510/30=17updates to 510/60=9updates which is roughly 2.5 to 3 years instead of 5 to 6 years. I mean I'd take 5 updates but that might too much too fast which ZOS doesn't do well on.
It's not that simple with sustain. On one hand everyone can find some use for both resource pools, on the other you can't stack cost reduction as well on a hybrid.
I understand your issue, but some combos with crafted sets would be insanely OP. Armor Master + Fortified Brass comes to mind.Nightfall12 wrote: »I think Pelinals has its place, I just wish there was a way to get jewelry in these crafted sets. There are times when i want to combine this set with another crafted set, and can not get the 5 piece perk that is what Pel's is all about. On another toon i was having fun with Armor master while leveling it up, now i see that I am going to have to abandon that because once I hit 50 on that char, I will use some other sets and there will be no way i can complete the set with the other parts I have.
PSN: ***___Chan (3 _s)
Hybrid, All-Role NB0 -
PS4_ZeColmeia✭✭✭✭✭PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »
I think I mostly get what you are saying about CP: it costs you 2x as much because you have to invest in everything 2x. I would agree which is why I said around 1200 it won't matter because the difference in power between a pure and hybrid, CP wise, is soooo marginal it's not worth comparing. That then leaves it solely to resources, skills, stats and sets which we agree still favors focused, but is a likely closer to each other situation than we are currently.PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Pelinal's needs to equalize crit as well as spell/weapon damage.
There needs to be a larger selection of unique drops of Medium/Light armor sets that drop in their opposite jewelry enchantment (arcane, robust).
The builds would still lack penetration and armor passives for cost reduction/regen on one side of the equation or another leaving them less competitive compared to pure builds.
I am not suggesting hybrids would not be fun. Early days in the game stam builds were required to be hybrids unless they used only weapon line skills but that is why magicka was so strong then.
Slightly disagree. Penetration is very, very CP dependant which is why I'm saying we need to start accelerating CP growth.
Regen is true, but that is heavily dependant on your bar set up and recovery skills. Example: I use siphoning attacks. In a DW setup, I would use 1 stam skill to weave in every so often to alleviate resource drain. If I go lightning/DW setup its less of an issue on resources, you get the easy exploiter perk, and so you just use DW as a higher damage bar while lightning has the extra penetration.
It's a lot of balancing, but works once you get it. I personally think that CP is the biggest hamstring since it does such a great job buffing focused builds.
It doesn't matter the source of penetration. If your getting it from CP then it's costing you twice as many points as it would with a pure build.
The same can be said for CP in general. While not as harsh as it was pre-Morrowind, it's still splitting points between elemental and physical damage (and regen as mentioned previously).
The only reason I have mentioned or posted in this thread is that OP suggested hybrids are getting close to being competitive. They may be closer but there are huge barriers due to base game design.
I also don't thing Zos needs to make them competitive. Play as you want doesn't mean everything is equal. However, I am pleased Zos has made things better for hybrids.
That's the point I am making, they should not be equal, I don't have sustain issues as a hybrid because I can 2 or 3 resource pools so my damage shouldn't as high as a pure damage build that does have some sustain issues. In between now and 1200, I think the dev team should shorten the timeline from 510/30=17updates to 510/60=9updates which is roughly 2.5 to 3 years instead of 5 to 6 years. I mean I'd take 5 updates but that might too much too fast which ZOS doesn't do well on.
We are a few years from having 1200 CP to use.
I agree it's better than it was, just speaking to the comment in the OP about being competitive.
17/3=almost 6 years!
17/4=over 4 years!
Doesn't make sense to me.PSN: ***___Chan (3 _s)
Hybrid, All-Role NB0 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hybrids are more useful in solo play. When it comes to groups like in dungeons and trials I don't want Hybrids. Focus on one role0 -
PS4_ZeColmeia✭✭✭✭✭
I don't view hybrids as multi role, that's waaaaay too watered down to be effective. Only talking about resources and skill morphs.hybrids are more useful in solo play. When it comes to groups like in dungeons and trials I don't want Hybrids. Focus on one rolePSN: ***___Chan (3 _s)
Hybrid, All-Role NB1 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nobody notices because I am a very very tall bosmer. But technically my main is an hybrid and quite interesting one.
How it's done
Using stamina regain and cost reduction passives, she able to effectively use stamina support skills.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/dark-priestess-pug-proof/
This also works because no damage is tied to these skills and even if it was what I was looking for was versitity.
My thoughts on hybrids for dps is game is too focus on numbers. Needs more versitity.
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f047ys3v3n✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think those hybrid DK / NB / Templar / Sorc builds in PVP are doing just fine. A little dragon leap for stun, some mages wrath for auto execute and a breath or two if something goes sideways. Those builds frequently kill me. Oh, wait, you were talking about something else entirely.
The greatest issue with those other hybrid builds is that by trying to do everything a little you just do nothing well. It's not just one thing and no item sets alone can really bridge the resource pool issue, armor passive issues, different spell power and weapon power and different crits. Skill points are the least of your problem. There are many skill points, you just only have so many attributes, set bonuses, mundus, champ points, to go around.
On the other hand, you might be able to overcome all these problems with the same magical tool that you can use multiple class abilities with
It's play the way you want right. It must be as I get killed by them many times every day and they have plenty of PVP rank to indicate that they have been doing it a long long time. I am currently worried for the future of ESO. Population seems like it is in free fall and the cancellation of the North America in-person gathering feels very much like pulling the plug. Kudos on fixing the in-game economy though. Clearly whatever gold shenanigans were happening the last couple years are fixed.0
