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the importance of relatively little effort for datamined looks transmutation
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Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
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But costumes are a full appearance, what if I want a pirate hat and some curly santa elf boots to do with my daedric armor?0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »We are going to have to disagree there. Transmog should be implemented with crafting in mind. So crafters have incentives to craft again, so finding motifs will be important again. Just like with transmute, you have to KNOW the trait to do it, here you should have to know the style and have the skill. Imo.
That would limit transmog to JUST existing motifs and not items worn by NPCs that you can get but are otherwise white level 1 items.Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Well none of this will help Crafters. Non crafted sets are the only thing that people want to change. If you want to actually revive motif importance. I would rather the crafter to be able to just craft a sellable costume. Have a preview at the guild stores and in chats and boom.
also this ^
If you have the skill to make lvl 1 gear, which everyone does, and have the style then you would be able to do it. Sorry, if you didnt put in the work, you shouldnt be able to make your gear look super fancy.
high end motifs require you to have maxed out crafting just to learn them, so there goes this particular issue. the only motifs you would be able to transmute to at lvl 1, are the blue faction motifs.
that said, transmog IMO SHOULD be accessible. I do not think you should have to max out crafting just to be able to have a pretty outfit. you should be able to just buy an item from someone else and use it - like a stamp that was suggested. or find it and use it in case of looks that cannot be crafted in game. make it consumable so that crafters continue to have a market. but do not require everyone to BE a crafter.
and yes I'm aware of the effort required to be a master crafter. I'm still missing Horns of the reach motifs, but I have everything else that is not a crown store motif and am at 9 traits. its part of the reason WHY I think that crafters should be able to just sell BoE outfit items to be used in transmog by anyone wishing to buy them.Edited by Linaleah on December 12, 2017 8:54PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »We are going to have to disagree there. Transmog should be implemented with crafting in mind. So crafters have incentives to craft again, so finding motifs will be important again. Just like with transmute, you have to KNOW the trait to do it, here you should have to know the style and have the skill. Imo.
That would limit transmog to JUST existing motifs and not items worn by NPCs that you can get but are otherwise white level 1 items.Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Well none of this will help Crafters. Non crafted sets are the only thing that people want to change. If you want to actually revive motif importance. I would rather the crafter to be able to just craft a sellable costume. Have a preview at the guild stores and in chats and boom.
also this ^
If you have the skill to make lvl 1 gear, which everyone does, and have the style then you would be able to do it. Sorry, if you didnt put in the work, you shouldnt be able to make your gear look super fancy.
high end motifs require you to have maxed out crafting just to learn them, so there goes this particular issue. the only motifs you would be able to transmute to at lvl 1, are the blue faction motifs.
that said, transmog IMO SHOULD be accessible. I do not think you should have to max out crafting just to be able to have a pretty outfit. you should be able to just buy an item from someone else and use it - like a stamp that was suggested. or find it and use it in case of looks that cannot be crafted in game. make it consumable so that crafters continue to have a market. but do not require everyone to BE a crafter.
and yes I'm aware of the effort required to be a master crafter. I'm still missing Horns of the reach motifs, but I have everything else that is not a crown store motif and am at 9 traits. its part of the reason WHY I think that crafters should be able to just sell BoE outfit items to be used in transmog by anyone wishing to buy them.
We clearly wont come to agreement here. Imo if you havent put in the work, you dont deserve to be able to access it. There needs to be some sort of progression in this game, and this would go a long way to appease crafters, especially if you can sell the items.0 -
Darkstorne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The best way I can see transmute going is for you to need a piece of gear in the style that you want, and then that is destroyed in order to change the appearance.
Many of the good motifs have pretty high material costs already, so price and effort wise, it should be about there.
Would also let you do stuff like put a Maw weapon onto a crafted one for that sweet sweet glow.
Transmogs should be you just using said style material on x armor, done. Nothing fancy. You shouldnt have to waste 150 ingots to transmog each piece of gear, thats just ludicrous. You SHOULD however be a skilled crafter in order to do it. You should not be able to transmute a cp 160 piece of armor to mercenary style if you havent invested into smithing / clothing / woodworking, and you shouldnt be able to do it if you do not have the motif learned.
This is a great chance to breathe life back into crafting. Zos.
Do.
Not.
Blow.
It.
Literally as simple as this. It's a freaking game, just let me look awesome if I've learned the style. For one moment, ZOS, maybe don't try to turn a new feature into a grind fest or whale-hunting business model. Just aim to make it FUN.1 -
mirta000b16_ESO✭✭✭✭If you have the skill to make lvl 1 gear, which everyone does, and have the style then you would be able to do it. Sorry, if you didnt put in the work, you shouldnt be able to make your gear look super fancy.
oh I'm okay with that, it's just that a lot of NPC looks don't even come in motif books. So they would either have to let us to transmute an item, or make more motif books.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »Full gear transmog should take a day or less to achieve
Suggesting that restyling gear should take less than a day to restyle an entire set of gear seems more like wanting it easy peasy.
While I think the retraiting itself is good, it is the randomness of how many crystals we get per container that is a poor design, not that I cannot retrait a full set of gear in a day.
Regardless, you will not be able to get everything you need restyle every piece of gear in a mere 10 hours. That much I guarantee. How other games does it is irrelevant. I bet there are other things about FF you do not like, and well, you mentioned one of them.
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mirta000b16_ESO✭✭✭✭
Suggesting that restyling gear should take less than a day to restyle an entire set of gear seems more like wanting it easy peasy.
While I think the retraiting itself is good, it is the randomness of how many crystals we get per container that is a poor design, not that I cannot retrait a full set of gear in a day.
Regardless, you will not be able to get everything you need restyle every piece of gear in a mere 10 hours. That much I guarantee. How other games does it is irrelevant. I bet there are other things about FF you do not like, and well, you mentioned one of them.
Literally not a single MMO that I know gates restyling behind large amounts of grinding. To gate it behind large amounts of grinding, is as good as not putting it in at all.3 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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In WOW it cost an trivial amount of gold, It will probably do the same in ESO or it will be an cash shop thing because its cosmetic, in that case it will not require grinding but will probably be restricted ether styles you know or an item you own.mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »
Suggesting that restyling gear should take less than a day to restyle an entire set of gear seems more like wanting it easy peasy.
While I think the retraiting itself is good, it is the randomness of how many crystals we get per container that is a poor design, not that I cannot retrait a full set of gear in a day.
Regardless, you will not be able to get everything you need restyle every piece of gear in a mere 10 hours. That much I guarantee. How other games does it is irrelevant. I bet there are other things about FF you do not like, and well, you mentioned one of them.
Literally not a single MMO that I know gates restyling behind large amounts of grinding. To gate it behind large amounts of grinding, is as good as not putting it in at all.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
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In WOW it cost an trivial amount of gold, It will probably do the same in ESO or it will be an cash shop thing because its cosmetic, in that case it will not require grinding but will probably be restricted ether styles you know or an item you own.mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »
Suggesting that restyling gear should take less than a day to restyle an entire set of gear seems more like wanting it easy peasy.
While I think the retraiting itself is good, it is the randomness of how many crystals we get per container that is a poor design, not that I cannot retrait a full set of gear in a day.
Regardless, you will not be able to get everything you need restyle every piece of gear in a mere 10 hours. That much I guarantee. How other games does it is irrelevant. I bet there are other things about FF you do not like, and well, you mentioned one of them.
Literally not a single MMO that I know gates restyling behind large amounts of grinding. To gate it behind large amounts of grinding, is as good as not putting it in at all.
Transmog will make actual crafting largely irrelevant. If reskinning replaces real crafting, they'll have to make reskinning something you earn if they expect to keep players who care about crafting."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MasterSpatula wrote: »
In WOW it cost an trivial amount of gold, It will probably do the same in ESO or it will be an cash shop thing because its cosmetic, in that case it will not require grinding but will probably be restricted ether styles you know or an item you own.mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »
Suggesting that restyling gear should take less than a day to restyle an entire set of gear seems more like wanting it easy peasy.
While I think the retraiting itself is good, it is the randomness of how many crystals we get per container that is a poor design, not that I cannot retrait a full set of gear in a day.
Regardless, you will not be able to get everything you need restyle every piece of gear in a mere 10 hours. That much I guarantee. How other games does it is irrelevant. I bet there are other things about FF you do not like, and well, you mentioned one of them.
Literally not a single MMO that I know gates restyling behind large amounts of grinding. To gate it behind large amounts of grinding, is as good as not putting it in at all.
Transmog will make actual crafting largely irrelevant. If reskinning replaces real crafting, they'll have to make reskinning something you earn if they expect to keep players who care about crafting.
Exactly, which is why you should have put in the time to learn motifs and get your crafts leveled.0 -
mirta000b16_ESO✭✭✭✭MasterSpatula wrote: »Transmog will make actual crafting largely irrelevant. If reskinning replaces real crafting, they'll have to make reskinning something you earn if they expect to keep players who care about crafting.
they should make crafting relevant by making crafted gear sets relevant and not by gimping player's ability to style their gear.
in GW2 raid level gear (Ascended) is craftable, otherwise you're playing a stat lottery.
IN FFXIV all gear is time-gated, except for crafting gear, meaning that every raider buys a crafted set for the first few weeks to bypass the early raid tier iLvl.Edited by mirta000b16_ESO on December 15, 2017 9:55AM0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »Transmog will make actual crafting largely irrelevant. If reskinning replaces real crafting, they'll have to make reskinning something you earn if they expect to keep players who care about crafting.
they should make crafting relevant by making crafted gear sets relevant and not by gimping player's ability to style their gear.
in GW2 raid level gear (Ascended) is craftable, otherwise you're playing a stat lottery.
IN FFXIV all gear is time-gated, except for crafting gear, meaning that every raider buys a crafted set for the first few weeks to bypass the early raid tier iLvl.
Sorry. If you didn't put the time in, you SHOULD have to rely on real crafters.1 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We clearly wont come to agreement here. Imo if you havent put in the work, you dont deserve to be able to access it. There needs to be some sort of progression in this game, and this would go a long way to appease crafters, especially if you can sell the items.
Not sure why "look good" is a "progression" feature, but.... eh.
Personally, I've made maxed-out crafters in any MMO that's had such a thing. And I've still never understood the whole forum push of "they need to mold the entire game system/economy/etc to cater to the God Given Right of Crafters to Make A Huge Profit™" /shrug
I'm not quite at a maxed-out crafter yet (a bunch more nirnhoned items to research for 9-trait; don't have all motifs). I'd be disappointed if Crafters were required for appearance change.
Honestly, I'd prefer appearance slots. Because, as some people have tried to point out, there's a bunch of gear items out there that don't exist as Motifs. And we'd like to be able to use their appearances. Which the whole "You must have a Crafter apply a Motif to your gear, after giving them your first born because they are Holy Crafters who deserve to be Worshipped" thing ignores.0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »We clearly wont come to agreement here. Imo if you havent put in the work, you dont deserve to be able to access it. There needs to be some sort of progression in this game, and this would go a long way to appease crafters, especially if you can sell the items.
Not sure why "look good" is a "progression" feature, but.... eh.
Personally, I've made maxed-out crafters in any MMO that's had such a thing. And I've still never understood the whole forum push of "they need to mold the entire game system/economy/etc to cater to the God Given Right of Crafters to Make A Huge Profit™" /shrug
I'm not quite at a maxed-out crafter yet (a bunch more nirnhoned items to research for 9-trait; don't have all motifs). I'd be disappointed if Crafters were required for appearance change.
Honestly, I'd prefer appearance slots. Because, as some people have tried to point out, there's a bunch of gear items out there that don't exist as Motifs. And we'd like to be able to use their appearances. Which the whole "You must have a Crafter apply a Motif to your gear, after giving them your first born because they are Holy Crafters who deserve to be Worshipped" thing ignores.
That would also murder crafting in the game tho. If anything they could release those armors as a lvl 1 motif or something.0 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »
Personally, I've made maxed-out crafters in any MMO that's had such a thing. And I've still never understood the whole forum push of "they need to mold the entire game system/economy/etc to cater to the God Given Right of Crafters to Make A Huge Profit™" /shrug
Considering what you're asking for basically takes away viability from a feature many players really enjoy, I would think you'd want to avoid getting on a high horse about it."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle0
