Kinda tired of mega heals and shields

davey1107 · December 2017

This doesn't feel like a class or resource issues...it feels like across all lasses, but the mega heals (on non-healers) are getting kinda annoying. I’m talking about a solo player of most any class swinging from 15% to 100% health in like 1/2 second. I’m not sure what’s doing that exactly...but it seems like heals are way more powerful than they used to be.

I’d take a 25% nerf to my own heals if they were all brought down. I’m not sure if that would change the effect or not.

Trashs1 · December 2017

that from a stamblade... you want to crap out the surviveability of magsorc mag templars and mag wardens and give almost nothing in exchange ?

against it!

ToRelax · December 2017

Trashs1 wrote: »

that from a stamblade... you want to crap out the surviveability of magsorc mag templars and mag wardens and give almost nothing in exchange ?

against it!

It would effect Wardens, DKs and NBs the most.

davey1107 · December 2017

@Trashs1 I said I’d take it, not that I recommend it, lol.

I don’t think a heal reduce would hurt my Magplar too much. I mean...they stack so many heals. Magsorcs are OP and need nerfs, but I’m not sure that it’s a heal nerf they need.

I think a heal nerf would hit stamblades. No? They don’t have that many heals...I thought my hyperbolic suggestion sounded like “death to Nightblades.”

I was thinking more generally about whether heals might be broken or something. I notice a lot of players seem to pull what appears to be a 16-20k heal instantly...the bar swings to full health over and over. It seems like that happened way back in an old update too, and at the point I remember them saying they were trying to keep heal power under control.

Ultimate_Overlord · December 2017

What you may be looking for is a cp nerf.

davey1107 · December 2017

@Ultimate_Overlord

CP nerf? Hmm...probably you’re right. The rebalance this year was really weird to me because the diminishing return model made it so a top CP character can pull 80% of the best buffs from the trees instead of 50% before. That power creep might be what’s doing it, although damage output feels about right to me on most classes.

I don’t know...maybe people are popping a potion and using their Best heal at the same time. But I watched a magblade refill his health from 20-100 like four times in a row taking damage from six enemies. I haven’t pvp’d with my magblade in a long time...but I don’t remember them having that sort of heal potential. Not like siphoning heals over time...just they’re at 20% and bam, full health.

ToRelax · December 2017

davey1107 wrote: »

Magsorcs are OP and need nerfs, but I’m not sure that it’s a heal nerf they need.

Well, that doesn't help your credibility.

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

What you may be looking for is a cp nerf.

Exactly.

Trashs1 · December 2017

davey1107 wrote: »

@Trashs1 I said I’d take it, not that I recommend it, lol.

I don’t think a heal reduce would hurt my Magplar too much. I mean...they stack so many heals. Magsorcs are OP and need nerfs, but I’m not sure that it’s a heal nerf they need.

I think a heal nerf would hit stamblades. No? They don’t have that many heals...I thought my hyperbolic suggestion sounded like “death to Nightblades.”

I was thinking more generally about whether heals might be broken or something. I notice a lot of players seem to pull what appears to be a 16-20k heal instantly...the bar swings to full health over and over. It seems like that happened way back in an old update too, and at the point I remember them saying they were trying to keep heal power under control.

rofl and where are mag sorcs op again?

well OT, since i play mostly no cp maybe i dont feel the issues too strong. a cp nerv could be fine maybe or just let it as it is.

many chars also are able to aply mayor defile what should help alot with baelful cp

davey1107 · December 2017

@ToRelax

At some point I messed up my signature, but I actually have vets in all classes/resources. I don’t JUST play stamblade. I can think of forty possible balance adjustments across all classes that might be needed, but in general I think the current game...when all mechanics are taken into account...make both magsorcs and stam sorcs significantly OP. My two toons definitely are...they have ridiculous dps with endless resources and endless shields and heals. The magsorc is a little more OP if you understand what the current magic pool capabilities mean for health replacement, or whatever.

Sorcs being OP is for a variety of reasons that all stack together. Maybe the root cause is that the power creep has disproportionally benefited Sorcs. It’s not like I’m demonizing magsorcs...most every class has had their moment of being OP, ie “unkillable DKgate ‘14”, “gankblade-gate ‘15,” and “Beamplar-gate ‘16.”

Biro123 · December 2017

davey1107 wrote: »

@Ultimate_Overlord

CP nerf? Hmm...probably you’re right. The rebalance this year was really weird to me because the diminishing return model made it so a top CP character can pull 80% of the best buffs from the trees instead of 50% before. That power creep might be what’s doing it, although damage output feels about right to me on most classes.

I don’t know...maybe people are popping a potion and using their Best heal at the same time. But I watched a magblade refill his health from 20-100 like four times in a row taking damage from six enemies. I haven’t pvp’d with my magblade in a long time...but I don’t remember them having that sort of heal potential. Not like siphoning heals over time...just they’re at 20% and bam, full health.

Sounds like Light's Champion to me.

#NerfSorcs ?

davey1107 · December 2017

@Trashs1

If you don’t play CP, then we can’t really compare notes. The game has gone through so many changes with CP that it’s like two entirely different worlds now.

But what can happen on my magsorc now is that the CPs allow so much power that they can hold up these massive shields, while pushing out these easy mode attacks. Both of these are sustained sort of indefinitely through overly generous magic and health return buffs. Because I never need to block or roll owing to shields, my stam pool is a second magic and health pool via dark exchange.

This wouldn’t happen in non-cp. The shields and heals would be weaker, so a non-cp toon would probably have to compensate at the cost of power. I really don’t know where the balance is in non-cp, I barely ever play it. But if I had to guess...the non-cp mechanics give more importance to sets....that’s where characters have to go to overcome weaknesses. And I think there are waaaaay more powerful and versatile stam configurations out there, so I’d guess the terror of your non-cp campaign is some stam class or other. Stam Sorcs or stamblades, I’d guess.

On my server the terror of the non-cp campaign is the endless utterly unpopulated tracts of Cyrodiil. Hey, ismthat a red?? Nope...just a rabbit. Dang it. And even he’s bored in this campaign.

Trashs1 · December 2017

im not playing entirely no cp, i also do a lot of bgs which are, as we al know, now cp enabeld... even there i can kill most of the ppl and face only seldom unkillable healtanks

in no cp all is fine! so if u seek for a nerf plz seek it at cps and dont ruin no cp enwironment totaly

ToRelax · December 2017

davey1107 wrote: »

ToRelax

At some point I messed up my signature, but I actually have vets in all classes/resources. I don’t JUST play stamblade. I can think of forty possible balance adjustments across all classes that might be needed, but in general I think the current game...when all mechanics are taken into account...make both magsorcs and stam sorcs significantly OP. My two toons definitely are...they have ridiculous dps with endless resources and endless shields and heals. The magsorc is a little more OP if you understand what the current magic pool capabilities mean for health replacement, or whatever.

Sorcs being OP is for a variety of reasons that all stack together. Maybe the root cause is that the power creep has disproportionally benefited Sorcs. It’s not like I’m demonizing magsorcs...most every class has had their moment of being OP, ie “unkillable DKgate ‘14”, “gankblade-gate ‘15,” and “Beamplar-gate ‘16.”

Well excuse me if I don't take this very seriously. It sounds like you were just hammering bad players or something, Sorc damage isn't that great against someone who knows how to deal with the burst and if you just use shields for defense you will run dry quickly unless you're shield stacking against 1-2 magicka builds. As for stam Sorc, just compare them to stam Warden... more healing, more burst, more AoE, similar or better sustain, more ult, less counters.

Biro123 · December 2017

davey1107 wrote: »

@Trashs1

If you don’t play CP, then we can’t really compare notes. The game has gone through so many changes with CP that it’s like two entirely different worlds now.

But what can happen on my magsorc now is that the CPs allow so much power that they can hold up these massive shields, while pushing out these easy mode attacks. Both of these are sustained sort of indefinitely through overly generous magic and health return buffs. Because I never need to block or roll owing to shields, my stam pool is a second magic and health pool via dark exchange.

This wouldn’t happen in non-cp. The shields and heals would be weaker, so a non-cp toon would probably have to compensate at the cost of power. I really don’t know where the balance is in non-cp, I barely ever play it. But if I had to guess...the non-cp mechanics give more importance to sets....that’s where characters have to go to overcome weaknesses. And I think there are waaaaay more powerful and versatile stam configurations out there, so I’d guess the terror of your non-cp campaign is some stam class or other. Stam Sorcs or stamblades, I’d guess.

On my server the terror of the non-cp campaign is the endless utterly unpopulated tracts of Cyrodiil. Hey, ismthat a red?? Nope...just a rabbit. Dang it. And even he’s bored in this campaign.

I tend to do ok on no-cp with my normal cp builds. Yeah, shields are a lot weaker - but so is damage. The difference is hardly noticeable unless siege is involved.
I chug pots more for sustain - and still run dry - but in most cases, my opponent is also dry too at around that point. Imho, it makes more difference with max-mag builds (that 20% stat loss is the biggest impact on stuff that only scales with magica).

I also find that shields are not enough alone and dodging is necessary regardless of cp or not.
And I find Dark Exchange too slow now (and therefore too interruptable) to use as a heal (which is probably what I'd have to drop to fit it on my bar). I'd much rather be able to dodge, have an instant heal on my bar - and have enough mag recov built in to not need dark-exch for resources.

I think people really need to start getting their head around the fact that sorcs are not a glass cannon. They are not made of glass - and they aren't much of a cannon anymore either. Most 'nerf-sorc' views seem to come from this mindset.

GrigorijMalahevich · December 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

@Trashs1

If you don’t play CP, then we can’t really compare notes. The game has gone through so many changes with CP that it’s like two entirely different worlds now.

But what can happen on my magsorc now is that the CPs allow so much power that they can hold up these massive shields, while pushing out these easy mode attacks. Both of these are sustained sort of indefinitely through overly generous magic and health return buffs. Because I never need to block or roll owing to shields, my stam pool is a second magic and health pool via dark exchange.

This wouldn’t happen in non-cp. The shields and heals would be weaker, so a non-cp toon would probably have to compensate at the cost of power. I really don’t know where the balance is in non-cp, I barely ever play it. But if I had to guess...the non-cp mechanics give more importance to sets....that’s where characters have to go to overcome weaknesses. And I think there are waaaaay more powerful and versatile stam configurations out there, so I’d guess the terror of your non-cp campaign is some stam class or other. Stam Sorcs or stamblades, I’d guess.

On my server the terror of the non-cp campaign is the endless utterly unpopulated tracts of Cyrodiil. Hey, ismthat a red?? Nope...just a rabbit. Dang it. And even he’s bored in this campaign.

I tend to do ok on no-cp with my normal cp builds. Yeah, shields are a lot weaker - but so is damage. The difference is hardly noticeable unless siege is involved.
I chug pots more for sustain - and still run dry - but in most cases, my opponent is also dry too at around that point. Imho, it makes more difference with max-mag builds (that 20% stat loss is the biggest impact on stuff that only scales with magica).

I also find that shields are not enough alone and dodging is necessary regardless of cp or not.
And I find Dark Exchange too slow now (and therefore too interruptable) to use as a heal (which is probably what I'd have to drop to fit it on my bar). I'd much rather be able to dodge, have an instant heal on my bar - and have enough mag recov built in to not need dark-exch for resources.

I think people really need to start getting their head around the fact that sorcs are not a glass cannon. They are not made of glass - and they aren't much of a cannon anymore either. Most 'nerf-sorc' views seem to come from this mindset.

Yes, please... I would swap healing ward for class instant heal any day of the week and twice on Sundays... Then you can drop resto staff and use s&b on back bar, more build diversity, more flexibility, more tankiness...

VaranisArano · December 2017

One set that could account for what you are seeing is Earthgore procs.

alexthomp92 · December 2017

My magplar heals scale with low health I can crit heal around 16k I have 3% heal buff from cp and a powered one hand sword on back bar Sd buffed is a little under 4K and 35k magicka pop a focus ritual and honour the dead my health will be 100% on near enough to start jabbing
But with out line of sight i can't pull it off

idk · December 2017

I can only assume OP is speaking to PvP. There are skills and sets that can be worn to reduce the healing others receive. CP increases the effectiveness for this.

Your problem has not been solved.

alexthomp92 · December 2017

idk wrote: »

I can only assume OP is speaking to PvP. There are skills and sets that can be worn to reduce the healing others receive. CP increases the effectiveness for this.

Your problem has not been solved.

These can be cleansed as they are status effects so magplar ritual takes this off and class skill line then buffs healing by giving minor mending for 3 seconds giving a Enough time to move around a corner and heal to full health, force your opponents into the open or walk away if they chase you to open space then you can get them.

Solariken · December 2017

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

What you may be looking for is a cp nerf removal.

Went ahead and fixed that for you.

kaithuzar · December 2017

Personally I think the heal magdk gets from their attack skill, can't remember if it's burning embers or whip or what, but we're both dpsing each other & they're going from 15% to 100 & it's like wtf.
I'm sure I could do it too if I played a cheesy magblade standing in path as an argonian w/100 points into blessed & spamming swallow soul but i think that's terrible.
I think all classes should have healing nerfed, but especially burst heals like that.
The dk I was fighting had 1100 mag regen, at the very least it shouldn't be sustainable.

Waffennacht · December 2017

Defile not enough?

DocFrost72 · December 2017

Yesterday I watched a stam sorc (cp pvp) go from execute to full three times, so I started watching him.

Dark deal ended, rally activated, vigor tick at the same time, because of how cooldowns work. Same concept as burst damage.

It's never any one heal that is an Uber heal y'all.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · December 2017

Major defile+minor defile. I sit at 62% healing debuff with mine. Put some points into befoul and/or use a skill with major defile attached to it. You change healing you’re going to screw Stam classes.

kaithuzar · December 2017

Even with 60 points into befoul it doesn't feel like soul harvest is enough; also it's clunky & can miss.

QuebraRegra · December 2017

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

What you may be looking for is a cp nerf.

noo, I assure you years ago they told me that power creep would never be w thing with the CP system LOL!

Lexxypwns · December 2017

Befoul+defile already soft counters healing

Drakkdjinn · December 2017

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

What you may be looking for is a cp nerf.

Ding ding!

Waffennacht · December 2017

kaithuzar wrote: »

Even with 60 points into befoul it doesn't feel like soul harvest is enough; also it's clunky & can miss.

Try a better method of applying defile

Surprised after that duel tournament more people aren't running durok's

CyrusArya · December 2017

Make healing weaker so zerglings can have an easier time mowing down solo/small scale players? No thanks. Plenty of counters to healing are readily available. If you struggle to kill people, build for more damage. But then you might find that the healing and survivability is not as powerful as you make it seem. 15%-100% in a half second is an extreme exaggeration outside the case of a rally burst heal, breath of life, or healing ultimate.

No more nerfs. It’s not necessary.

ak_pvp · December 2017

Shielding needs nerfs in exchange for skillful play/mobility. Base healing is fine. Blocking is fine.

Honestly what wee need is mechanics that limit zerg/group healing in PvP (I'd go as far as to say a limit on all external healing.) so people need to look after themselves and gittus goodus. Ever fought a group with two+ pocket healers, its like *** wackamoling iron with an inflatable hammer.

Also total removal of AoE caps to crush zergtrash with all CC and full damage.

Inb4 play no CP, its good for quick fights, but you are going to be zerged harder.