Urza1234 wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Animation cancelling adds to combat and increases the overall fluidity and enjoyment factor.

The problem is... it requires skill. So you end up with threads like this.

It really doesnt require skill, it requires a good connection.

Suggesting that animation canceling requires skill is extremely low-bar elitism. Its like suggesting that walking requires skill while imagining that the world is filled with invalids inferior to you.

All animation canceling really does is give Aussies and Kiwis a hard time.

Well no, I just have knowledge of the game. It's sounding like you've never even done it before

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Or they could just make the animations match the actual cast/cooldown/whatever timer and get rid of animation canceling ...

so in simple words, "rek good players by removing the one thing that made them better then alot of other players"?
No tyvm

It'd also throw things out of whack, with faster looking abilities giving more deeps.

Izaki wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Or they could just make the animations match the actual cast/cooldown/whatever timer and get rid of animation canceling ...

And then while you're doing your Dizzy Swing or literally any of your abilities which have a 1 second global cooldown and a Sorc decides to send a Frag in your face, you wouldn't be able to block in time! Great gameplay, right?

Without animation canceling (which is a pretty stupid term for it) you wouldn't be able to bar swap until the global cooldown is over, light attacks would be completely useless (since without animation canceling they would be on the same GCD as abilities), you wouldn't be able to bash until the 1 second global cooldown is over. Yeah. The game's combat system wouldn't even work for the most part.

You are 100% correct here, and the fact that other people aren't coming into this thread and saying the exact same thing or very similar, shows just how many people playing PVP don't even understand the game they're playing. They may never develop an understanding of it. And I have no idea why

exeeter702 wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

This is going to end up like all other AC threads.

People who don't understand why it exists, regardless of it being initially intended or not will continue to say 'just get rid of it'.
People who like it will say get good.

I will say, it's not going anywhere because it simply can not be removed. In order to do so the dynamic and reactive portions of combat in this game would stop working. Want to block an attack? You're going to have to wait for that animation to finish. Want to dodge roll? Yep, waiting again. Need to barswap for your ohshitimgoingtodiesaveme skill? Wait for that animation to finish.

Animation cancelling as a DPS "mechanic" was seemingly unintended, but certain combat actions in this game work on a priority so that you can quickly react to the fight. AC as a DPS function exists as a side effect because of this.

They would have to be changed to remove the DPS aspect, and combat in ESO would take a big hit. You think AC makes combat clunky? Just go force yourself to play with out it. Wait for each light attack to finish because you hit one of your hotkeys. No blocking or interrupting the target in front of you until that light attack is fully complete. No barswap off your bow bar until volley hits the ground. Wait for it.

As much as I would like to agree with you, there are many skills that are odd that if you don't animation cancel at the right time, you have to let it run to the end before you can block. I've experienced this with Templar Jabs. In PvE when I'm tanking, i'm also doing DPS, so when I see the game mechanic rear up for a Heavy Attack, sometimes it's after I already started jabs and sometimes, despite attempting to block the damage, I don't and end up dying. It is weird because sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. That goes for a lot of other skills that despite having an "Instant cast" you have difficulty animation cancelling it.

This is indeed true at times however is kind of a seperate issue.

Jabs is a channel, you cant animation cancel it, you're just canceling it. Animation canceling is still using the full skill, as in all 4 jabs land, but you don't see any of them

Im sorry @LittlePinkDot but comments like the ones you are putting here confirm that you are not entirely sure how combat is designed and implemented in this game. On console it can be less obvious due to not having certain ui enhancements to display tbinga like cast bars and a GCD timer.

Follow me here as i really hope to make this clear for you and anyone else not in the know or trying to challenge why it shouldn't exist or that it is a simple removal. It needs to exist. And by virtue of that it can not be removed. Excuse the lengthy post.

There are 3 types of abilities in eso in regards to resolution points which the point at which the client and server communicate and resolve the ability. Basically when its criteria is met for the ability to fire. They are as follows..

Instant cast - surprise attack, flame lash, low slash
Channeled - jabs, jesus beam, soul assault
Cast timed - uppercut, crystal frags

And with these ability types there is the universal 1 second global coold down in eso. This governs all ability frequency use. It is for this reason, you canot increase the amount of skills you are able to cast within a certain time frame. This governs everything, and ability animations have nothing to do with it.

Instant cast abilities as the name implies, resolve inatantly. This means the second the ability is cast, assuming the criteria for casting the ability is met, is when you are no longer bound to or have to commit to the skill in any form. The ability resolves and then the game determines elements like projectile trajectory, crit, miss, dodge, block, damage calculation etc.

Channeled skills like in most if not all other mmos ever, have their values spread over the course of a channeld cast. At any point during the channel you can cancel it and thus lose out on its full value. Channled abilities resolve instantly in that you are charged the price of the skill instantly when the criteria to cast the ability is met. All channeled abilities are desinged and tuned to have their full duration fit evenly within the GCD or they have a .1 second modifier with a bonus damage tick at the end of the channel.

And for hard cast time abilities i will re post a statement that is entirely relevant here that i made a while back.

"
Most cast time abilites fit within the GCD and all abilities, cast time or instant will immediately trigger the GCD upon button press. What this means is cast time abilites will resolve right at the GCD refresh, this is why when you see uppercut used back to back, you never see the recovery animation (character sways back due to wepons weight) because that animation is visual flare being shown after the ability successfully completes its cast time. If you were locked into that recovery animation, you would be unfairly punished if for example you successfully aim, complete the cast and connect an uppercut on an opponent and you see a snipe flying your way and are forced to eat it because you cant block until your character finishes recovering from the animation.

So how do you address that?

Do you make the skill look ridiculous by having it not have any type of follow through visual?

Do you make it look equally ridiculous AND visually unintuitive by speeding up the existing animation of uppercut (cast time PLUS follow through animation) and squeeze it all within thr GCD resulting in the resolution point where damage is calculated being placed at the very end of the animation?

ZOS intentionally ommitted things like cast bars, channeled bars, and a GCD hot (action, ability) bar indicator for ehat can only be assumed was an attempt to distance themselves from more traditonal post wow mmos. It was important they be billed as a game that plays fundementally different from those games, which to be fair it still does, but having the aformentioned ui elements would clearly put on display the similarities to other mmos they were trying to distance themselves from. Pc addons easily reveal the truth of eso's mmo combat roots, and this is information that MANY console players are oblivious too and why such misinformation spreads around this topic.

Animation canceling is a product of ZOS's insistence with creating an active combat system familair to elderscrolls fans, and one which at any given time lets the player react to his / environment, while trying to maintian online server balance between abilities. And using this was done by binding themselves to traditional tried and true mmo online combat standards such as a governing GCD that allows abilities to be designed and blanced under an umbrella that makes sense and doesnt create a logistical nightmare when you have 40 plus players on the screen.

Its not cheating
Its not an exploit
Its not a bug
Its not an intended system or feature

It does not break the rules if eso's combat system, on the contrary, AC governs those rules.

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

This is going to end up like all other AC threads.

People who don't understand why it exists, regardless of it being initially intended or not will continue to say 'just get rid of it'.
People who like it will say get good.

I will say, it's not going anywhere because it simply can not be removed. In order to do so the dynamic and reactive portions of combat in this game would stop working. Want to block an attack? You're going to have to wait for that animation to finish. Want to dodge roll? Yep, waiting again. Need to barswap for your ohshitimgoingtodiesaveme skill? Wait for that animation to finish.

Animation cancelling as a DPS "mechanic" was seemingly unintended, but certain combat actions in this game work on a priority so that you can quickly react to the fight. AC as a DPS function exists as a side effect because of this.

They would have to be changed to remove the DPS aspect, and combat in ESO would take a big hit. You think AC makes combat clunky? Just go force yourself to play with out it. Wait for each light attack to finish because you hit one of your hotkeys. No blocking or interrupting the target in front of you until that light attack is fully complete. No barswap off your bow bar until volley hits the ground. Wait for it.

As much as I would like to agree with you, there are many skills that are odd that if you don't animation cancel at the right time, you have to let it run to the end before you can block. I've experienced this with Templar Jabs. In PvE when I'm tanking, i'm also doing DPS, so when I see the game mechanic rear up for a Heavy Attack, sometimes it's after I already started jabs and sometimes, despite attempting to block the damage, I don't and end up dying. It is weird because sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. That goes for a lot of other skills that despite having an "Instant cast" you have difficulty animation cancelling it.

This is indeed true at times however is kind of a seperate issue.

Jabs is a channel, you cant animation cancel it, you're just canceling it. Animation canceling is still using the full skill, as in all 4 jabs land, but you don't see any of them

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

I had an idea thats less annoying and less boring than animation cancelling. How about they just make % attack speed a trait for armour and weapons. And % faster cast rate for magicka skills. Allow 2 traits per piece.
Speed should be determined by stats.
Diablo 2 had it right.

Nuh uh. ;(

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Im sorry @LittlePinkDot but comments like the ones you are putting here confirm that you are not entirely sure how combat is designed and implemented in this game. On console it can be less obvious due to not having certain ui enhancements to display tbinga like cast bars and a GCD timer.

Follow me here as i really hope to make this clear for you and anyone else not in the know or trying to challenge why it shouldn't exist or that it is a simple removal. It needs to exist. And by virtue of that it can not be removed. Excuse the lengthy post.

There are 3 types of abilities in eso in regards to resolution points which the point at which the client and server communicate and resolve the ability. Basically when its criteria is met for the ability to fire. They are as follows..

Instant cast - surprise attack, flame lash, low slash
Channeled - jabs, jesus beam, soul assault
Cast timed - uppercut, crystal frags

And with these ability types there is the universal 1 second global coold down in eso. This governs all ability frequency use. It is for this reason, you canot increase the amount of skills you are able to cast within a certain time frame. This governs everything, and ability animations have nothing to do with it.

Instant cast abilities as the name implies, resolve inatantly. This means the second the ability is cast, assuming the criteria for casting the ability is met, is when you are no longer bound to or have to commit to the skill in any form. The ability resolves and then the game determines elements like projectile trajectory, crit, miss, dodge, block, damage calculation etc.

Channeled skills like in most if not all other mmos ever, have their values spread over the course of a channeld cast. At any point during the channel you can cancel it and thus lose out on its full value. Channled abilities resolve instantly in that you are charged the price of the skill instantly when the criteria to cast the ability is met. All channeled abilities are desinged and tuned to have their full duration fit evenly within the GCD or they have a .1 second modifier with a bonus damage tick at the end of the channel.

And for hard cast time abilities i will re post a statement that is entirely relevant here that i made a while back.

"
Most cast time abilites fit within the GCD and all abilities, cast time or instant will immediately trigger the GCD upon button press. What this means is cast time abilites will resolve right at the GCD refresh, this is why when you see uppercut used back to back, you never see the recovery animation (character sways back due to wepons weight) because that animation is visual flare being shown after the ability successfully completes its cast time. If you were locked into that recovery animation, you would be unfairly punished if for example you successfully aim, complete the cast and connect an uppercut on an opponent and you see a snipe flying your way and are forced to eat it because you cant block until your character finishes recovering from the animation.

So how do you address that?

Do you make the skill look ridiculous by having it not have any type of follow through visual?

Do you make it look equally ridiculous AND visually unintuitive by speeding up the existing animation of uppercut (cast time PLUS follow through animation) and squeeze it all within thr GCD resulting in the resolution point where damage is calculated being placed at the very end of the animation?

ZOS intentionally ommitted things like cast bars, channeled bars, and a GCD hot (action, ability) bar indicator for ehat can only be assumed was an attempt to distance themselves from more traditonal post wow mmos. It was important they be billed as a game that plays fundementally different from those games, which to be fair it still does, but having the aformentioned ui elements would clearly put on display the similarities to other mmos they were trying to distance themselves from. Pc addons easily reveal the truth of eso's mmo combat roots, and this is information that MANY console players are oblivious too and why such misinformation spreads around this topic.

Animation canceling is a product of ZOS's insistence with creating an active combat system familair to elderscrolls fans, and one which at any given time lets the player react to his / environment, while trying to maintian online server balance between abilities. And using this was done by binding themselves to traditional tried and true mmo online combat standards such as a governing GCD that allows abilities to be designed and blanced under an umbrella that makes sense and doesnt create a logistical nightmare when you have 40 plus players on the screen.

Its not cheating
Its not an exploit
Its not a bug
Its not an intended system or feature

It does not break the rules if eso's combat system, on the contrary, AC governs those rules.

Well Im finding is easy to "animation cancel" flurry/bloodthirst, but im not so sure if Im doing in correctly with twin slashes or steel tornado. Perhaps timing is different.

But yes its way easier with a controller, I only have to use my thumbs and my index fingers.
The R2 trigger just flows so naturally.
I'm glad I'm on console because there are no add ons, cheats or whatever the hell a macro is.
I cant be bothered with any of that. I dont like to complicate things.
Less information on the screen is a small price to pay for the ease and comfort of a controller with no add ons.
Im not interested in doing any math. While I would like to know what works, I dont really care WHY it works. If someone else has the answers then Im happy to take their word for it.
I do not need to be a leader.

Im not entirely sure your comment here has anything to do with what i said to be honest.

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

This is going to end up like all other AC threads.

People who don't understand why it exists, regardless of it being initially intended or not will continue to say 'just get rid of it'.
People who like it will say get good.

I will say, it's not going anywhere because it simply can not be removed. In order to do so the dynamic and reactive portions of combat in this game would stop working. Want to block an attack? You're going to have to wait for that animation to finish. Want to dodge roll? Yep, waiting again. Need to barswap for your ohshitimgoingtodiesaveme skill? Wait for that animation to finish.

Animation cancelling as a DPS "mechanic" was seemingly unintended, but certain combat actions in this game work on a priority so that you can quickly react to the fight. AC as a DPS function exists as a side effect because of this.

They would have to be changed to remove the DPS aspect, and combat in ESO would take a big hit. You think AC makes combat clunky? Just go force yourself to play with out it. Wait for each light attack to finish because you hit one of your hotkeys. No blocking or interrupting the target in front of you until that light attack is fully complete. No barswap off your bow bar until volley hits the ground. Wait for it.

As much as I would like to agree with you, there are many skills that are odd that if you don't animation cancel at the right time, you have to let it run to the end before you can block. I've experienced this with Templar Jabs. In PvE when I'm tanking, i'm also doing DPS, so when I see the game mechanic rear up for a Heavy Attack, sometimes it's after I already started jabs and sometimes, despite attempting to block the damage, I don't and end up dying. It is weird because sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. That goes for a lot of other skills that despite having an "Instant cast" you have difficulty animation cancelling it.

This is indeed true at times however is kind of a seperate issue.

Jabs is a channel, you cant animation cancel it, you're just canceling it. Animation canceling is still using the full skill, as in all 4 jabs land, but you don't see any of them

@exeeter702 You just state this same fact with this same skill, so why exactly are you hitting yourself in the face?

Because what you said makes no sense and is an example of exaclty the kind of logic that causes this topic to never go anywhere and continues to keep people complety in the dark and or confused.

My comment was in response to an individual that was explaining the issue of some skills locking up or getting delayed due to various elements that are not related to "animation canceling" despite them believing it is the case.

And your statement about jabs firing off invisibly because of animation canceling is completely false.

exeeter702 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

This is going to end up like all other AC threads.

People who don't understand why it exists, regardless of it being initially intended or not will continue to say 'just get rid of it'.
People who like it will say get good.

I will say, it's not going anywhere because it simply can not be removed. In order to do so the dynamic and reactive portions of combat in this game would stop working. Want to block an attack? You're going to have to wait for that animation to finish. Want to dodge roll? Yep, waiting again. Need to barswap for your ohshitimgoingtodiesaveme skill? Wait for that animation to finish.

Animation cancelling as a DPS "mechanic" was seemingly unintended, but certain combat actions in this game work on a priority so that you can quickly react to the fight. AC as a DPS function exists as a side effect because of this.

They would have to be changed to remove the DPS aspect, and combat in ESO would take a big hit. You think AC makes combat clunky? Just go force yourself to play with out it. Wait for each light attack to finish because you hit one of your hotkeys. No blocking or interrupting the target in front of you until that light attack is fully complete. No barswap off your bow bar until volley hits the ground. Wait for it.

As much as I would like to agree with you, there are many skills that are odd that if you don't animation cancel at the right time, you have to let it run to the end before you can block. I've experienced this with Templar Jabs. In PvE when I'm tanking, i'm also doing DPS, so when I see the game mechanic rear up for a Heavy Attack, sometimes it's after I already started jabs and sometimes, despite attempting to block the damage, I don't and end up dying. It is weird because sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. That goes for a lot of other skills that despite having an "Instant cast" you have difficulty animation cancelling it.

This is indeed true at times however is kind of a seperate issue.

Jabs is a channel, you cant animation cancel it, you're just canceling it. Animation canceling is still using the full skill, as in all 4 jabs land, but you don't see any of them

@exeeter702 You just state this same fact with this same skill, so why exactly are you hitting yourself in the face?

Because what you said makes no sense and is an example of exaclty the kind of logic that causes this topic to never go anywhere and continues to keep people complety in the dark and or confused.

My comment was in response to an individual that was explaining the issue of some skills locking up or getting delayed due to various elements that are not related to "animation canceling" despite them believing it is the case.

And your statement about jabs firing off invisibly because of animation canceling is completely false.

That was the point, illustrating what jabs would look like if it could be canceled, instead of the reality of it just stopping dead in its tracks.

As to ever “getting stuck” in jabs, that hasn’t been my experience, but I don’t use my Templar much and never used it while tanking so that I can’t really comment to.

Izaki wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Or they could just make the animations match the actual cast/cooldown/whatever timer and get rid of animation canceling ...

And then while you're doing your Dizzy Swing or literally any of your abilities which have a 1 second global cooldown and a Sorc decides to send a Frag in your face, you wouldn't be able to block in time! Great gameplay, right?

Without animation canceling (which is a pretty stupid term for it) you wouldn't be able to bar swap until the global cooldown is over, light attacks would be completely useless (since without animation canceling they would be on the same GCD as abilities), you wouldn't be able to bash until the 1 second global cooldown is over. Yeah. The game's combat system wouldn't even work for the most part.

You are 100% correct here, and the fact that other people aren't coming into this thread and saying the exact same thing or very similar, shows just how many people playing PVP don't even understand the game they're playing. They may never develop an understanding of it. And I have no idea why

Most people don't know how animation canceling works, they don't understand the whole system of different global cooldowns and how the overlap with each other. They also don't understand prioritization of different actions, like weapon attacks, abilities, bash and roll dodge. It is very easy to understand however, and once you do understand it, well... you'd know that its basically essential to the combat system.

And another myth is the fact that animations actually get canceled. No. Animations don't get canceled. You're never going to make the animation of Force Pulse disappear for example, you'll always have the sort of beam. The only thing that animation canceling cancels, is the body movement of the character. There are of course exceptions to the rule, specifically melee abilities like Surprise Attack or Reverse Slice or Lava Whip, where sometimes the animation will totally disappear when you roll dodge.

Yes, absolutely.

The way I look at it, usually I just don't have time to wait for the stupid animation to complete itself, combat is very fast paced. Certain abilities you can block cancel and it will save you fractions of seconds here and there... say instead of waiting for your toon to bring his arm back in etc after casting an ability you can block cancel it and then transition into the next move much faster. You've just saved valuable fractions of seconds.

Maybe the most well known example of this is vigor, dodge roll cancelling vigor will cut off that last part of the animation where your toon sort of extends his chest upward. That last phase of the animation takes a lot of time, would much rather roll dodge cancel it, or use another form of animation cancelling, so I can move on with using subsequent abilities or actions faster. And then of course there is LA weaving.

Any type of bar swap cancel is also animation cancelling, and I'd argue the game isn't even playable without utilizing bar swap cancels. So you can cast a poison injection, resto staff light attack, etc and then bar swap thus saving you valuable time.

Animation cancelling is the entire reason why combat in this game is enjoyable (because it makes it fast paced), which is why I sincerely believe the people who are against it either don't have an understanding of it, or the combat system in general. If one hates fast paced and exciting gameplay so much, maybe they should look into turn based games or card games.

ak_pvp wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Or they could just make the animations match the actual cast/cooldown/whatever timer and get rid of animation canceling ...

And then while you're doing your Dizzy Swing or literally any of your abilities which have a 1 second global cooldown and a Sorc decides to send a Frag in your face, you wouldn't be able to block in time! Great gameplay, right?

Without animation canceling (which is a pretty stupid term for it) you wouldn't be able to bar swap until the global cooldown is over, light attacks would be completely useless (since without animation canceling they would be on the same GCD as abilities), you wouldn't be able to bash until the 1 second global cooldown is over. Yeah. The game's combat system wouldn't even work for the most part.

You are 100% correct here, and the fact that other people aren't coming into this thread and saying the exact same thing or very similar, shows just how many people playing PVP don't even understand the game they're playing. They may never develop an understanding of it. And I have no idea why

Most people don't know how animation canceling works, they don't understand the whole system of different global cooldowns and how the overlap with each other. They also don't understand prioritization of different actions, like weapon attacks, abilities, bash and roll dodge. It is very easy to understand however, and once you do understand it, well... you'd know that its basically essential to the combat system.

And another myth is the fact that animations actually get canceled. No. Animations don't get canceled. You're never going to make the animation of Force Pulse disappear for example, you'll always have the sort of beam. The only thing that animation canceling cancels, is the body movement of the character. There are of course exceptions to the rule, specifically melee abilities like Surprise Attack or Reverse Slice or Lava Whip, where sometimes the animation will totally disappear when you roll dodge.

Yes, absolutely.

The way I look at it, usually I just don't have time to wait for the stupid animation to complete itself, combat is very fast paced. Certain abilities you can block cancel and it will save you fractions of seconds here and there... say instead of waiting for your toon to bring his arm back in etc after casting an ability you can block cancel it and then transition into the next move much faster. You've just saved valuable fractions of seconds.

Maybe the most well known example of this is vigor, dodge roll cancelling vigor will cut off that last part of the animation where your toon sort of extends his chest upward. That last phase of the animation takes a lot of time, would much rather roll dodge cancel it, or use another form of animation cancelling, so I can move on with using subsequent abilities or actions faster. And then of course there is LA weaving.

Any type of bar swap cancel is also animation cancelling, and I'd argue the game isn't even playable without utilizing bar swap cancels. So you can cast a poison injection, resto staff light attack, etc and then bar swap thus saving you valuable time.

Animation cancelling is the entire reason why combat in this game is enjoyable (because it makes it fast paced), which is why I sincerely believe the people who are against it either don't have an understanding of it, or the combat system in general. If one hates fast paced and exciting gameplay so much, maybe they should look into turn based games or card games.

I see no difference personally in the landing/usage of next ability when block cancelling. Due to way GCDs work it does really nothing. The only ones that work is melding one thing with skill GCD with something with alt GCD.

Was waiting for someone to say this, whenever someone talks of the merits of block cancelling, someone else always comes into the thread and says that it doesn't actually do anything due to the GCD. So I was expecting this response.

The first thing to mention is you can't get around the GCD, so that is not what you are attempting to do with block cancelling. What you are doing is cutting off excess animation time in the skill that exceeds the GCD.

The global cooldown for instant cast skills is relatively low (0.6), and a lot of these skills have animations that exceed that window, so for those skills that is where block cancelling comes in handy. Sometimes it doesn't help, but there are certain skills where it does help. If there are any skills in your bar setup that seem to take way more time then you would prefer during fast paced combat, a perfectly time right click to block (and it does have to be perfectly timed and a very quick click), will increase the pace of your ability casting. The time saved is less than one second, but that is a lot of time.

It's something I have personally noticed the difference with and received benefit from. If you can detect the small amount of time it saves it is absolutely worth it IMHO. again that is only for certain skills and at certain times

SkoomaHoover wrote: »

Aye i'm very opposed to animation cancelling.
It looks rubbish and makes the pvp into more of a spam contest rather than a fight. It makes combat less dynamic I think would be the way to word it.

However as a way to fix it, I don't think this will solve the problem at hand.

Less dynamic? So correctly timing several button presses compared to just hitting one button over and over with no cool down makes it less dynamic?

More of a spam contest? You mean more of a skill contest....Spamming would be just hitting one button over and over. Animation canceling consists of LA weaving attacks, weapon swapping, roll dodge canceling, or block canceling, AKA hitting several buttons in succession with good timing. Removing animation canceling would actually make things easier as in less skill and more casual. Screw that. Long live animation canceling.

It’s been almost 4 years. Give it up. For goodness sakes.

Izaki wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Or they could just make the animations match the actual cast/cooldown/whatever timer and get rid of animation canceling ...

And then while you're doing your Dizzy Swing or literally any of your abilities which have a 1 second global cooldown and a Sorc decides to send a Frag in your face, you wouldn't be able to block in time! Great gameplay, right?

Without animation canceling (which is a pretty stupid term for it) you wouldn't be able to bar swap until the global cooldown is over, light attacks would be completely useless (since without animation canceling they would be on the same GCD as abilities), you wouldn't be able to bash until the 1 second global cooldown is over. Yeah. The game's combat system wouldn't even work for the most part.

You are 100% correct here, and the fact that other people aren't coming into this thread and saying the exact same thing or very similar, shows just how many people playing PVP don't even understand the game they're playing. They may never develop an understanding of it. And I have no idea why

Most people don't know how animation canceling works, they don't understand the whole system of different global cooldowns and how the overlap with each other. They also don't understand prioritization of different actions, like weapon attacks, abilities, bash and roll dodge. It is very easy to understand however, and once you do understand it, well... you'd know that its basically essential to the combat system.

And another myth is the fact that animations actually get canceled. No. Animations don't get canceled. You're never going to make the animation of Force Pulse disappear for example, you'll always have the sort of beam. The only thing that animation canceling cancels, is the body movement of the character. There are of course exceptions to the rule, specifically melee abilities like Surprise Attack or Reverse Slice or Lava Whip, where sometimes the animation will totally disappear when you roll dodge.

Yes, absolutely.

The way I look at it, usually I just don't have time to wait for the stupid animation to complete itself, combat is very fast paced. Certain abilities you can block cancel and it will save you fractions of seconds here and there... say instead of waiting for your toon to bring his arm back in etc after casting an ability you can block cancel it and then transition into the next move much faster. You've just saved valuable fractions of seconds.

Maybe the most well known example of this is vigor, dodge roll cancelling vigor will cut off that last part of the animation where your toon sort of extends his chest upward. That last phase of the animation takes a lot of time, would much rather roll dodge cancel it, or use another form of animation cancelling, so I can move on with using subsequent abilities or actions faster. And then of course there is LA weaving.

Any type of bar swap cancel is also animation cancelling, and I'd argue the game isn't even playable without utilizing bar swap cancels. So you can cast a poison injection, resto staff light attack, etc and then bar swap thus saving you valuable time.

Animation cancelling is the entire reason why combat in this game is enjoyable (because it makes it fast paced), which is why I sincerely believe the people who are against it either don't have an understanding of it, or the combat system in general. If one hates fast paced and exciting gameplay so much, maybe they should look into turn based games or card games.

I see no difference personally in the landing/usage of next ability when block cancelling. Due to way GCDs work it does really nothing. The only ones that work is melding one thing with skill GCD with something with alt GCD.

Was waiting for someone to say this, whenever someone talks of the merits of block cancelling, someone else always comes into the thread and says that it doesn't actually do anything due to the GCD. So I was expecting this response.

The first thing to mention is you can't get around the GCD, so that is not what you are attempting to do with block cancelling. What you are doing is cutting off excess animation time in the skill that exceeds the GCD.

The global cooldown for instant cast skills is relatively low (0.6), and a lot of these skills have animations that exceed that window, so for those skills that is where block cancelling comes in handy. Sometimes it doesn't help, but there are certain skills where it does help. If there are any skills in your bar setup that seem to take way more time then you would prefer during fast paced combat, a perfectly time right click to block (and it does have to be perfectly timed and a very quick click), will increase the pace of your ability casting. The time saved is less than one second, but that is a lot of time.

It's something I have personally noticed the difference with and received benefit from. If you can detect the small amount of time it saves it is absolutely worth it IMHO. again that is only for certain skills and at certain times

Its mostly for abilities that have that circle thing when you cast them: Eruption, Liquid Lightning, Endless Hail, Caltrops, Shards, etc.

For the other abilities, block canceling isn't effective at all, first of all because it looks terribly stupid and second because weaving light attacks achieves the same goal of shortening thee back end of animations. And I'm pretty certain that the GCD on instant cast abilities is closer to 0.9 seconds, but I could be wrong.

Try block cancelling:

Surge (you can make it so you cast this ability with your toon barely moving at all if the block cancel is perfectly timed, usually he will take forever to bring his arms back down after raising them)
Liquid lightning
Curse (especially, huge difference here)
elemental blockade

With those 4 I'm pretty much 100% convinced that block cancelling helps. And if it's placebo, then it's not like I'm losing time again due to GCD. But I would urge people to try it with those 4 skills- things seem snappier and faster. Also, if it is placebo it still may even be beneficial to do. Placebos actually work.

So I'm not on board with the block cancelling hate. I really think it does help in select situations.

I'm sure there are more examples than what I've listed above.

And it is true, most of the time it's better to do a LA weave, no denying that.

Izaki wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Or they could just make the animations match the actual cast/cooldown/whatever timer and get rid of animation canceling ...

And then while you're doing your Dizzy Swing or literally any of your abilities which have a 1 second global cooldown and a Sorc decides to send a Frag in your face, you wouldn't be able to block in time! Great gameplay, right?

Without animation canceling (which is a pretty stupid term for it) you wouldn't be able to bar swap until the global cooldown is over, light attacks would be completely useless (since without animation canceling they would be on the same GCD as abilities), you wouldn't be able to bash until the 1 second global cooldown is over. Yeah. The game's combat system wouldn't even work for the most part.

You are 100% correct here, and the fact that other people aren't coming into this thread and saying the exact same thing or very similar, shows just how many people playing PVP don't even understand the game they're playing. They may never develop an understanding of it. And I have no idea why

Most people don't know how animation canceling works, they don't understand the whole system of different global cooldowns and how the overlap with each other. They also don't understand prioritization of different actions, like weapon attacks, abilities, bash and roll dodge. It is very easy to understand however, and once you do understand it, well... you'd know that its basically essential to the combat system.

And another myth is the fact that animations actually get canceled. No. Animations don't get canceled. You're never going to make the animation of Force Pulse disappear for example, you'll always have the sort of beam. The only thing that animation canceling cancels, is the body movement of the character. There are of course exceptions to the rule, specifically melee abilities like Surprise Attack or Reverse Slice or Lava Whip, where sometimes the animation will totally disappear when you roll dodge.

what technically happens is part of the animation that is seen get s clipped.