mb10 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Its because Morrowind and the main storyline as basicly happening at the same time. True, the intro could be better towards new players, but thats ZoS.

Erm...No they arent?
There are no dark anchors in Morrowind for a reason.

Morrowind is happening a year or two AFTER the main story line. Molag Bal is finished in ESO by this stage.

You would know this if you completed the Orsinium quest line and speak to Varen again as what he tells you is the beginning of whats happening in Morrowind.

The Dark Anchors dont disappear because you stopped Molag Bal. In Wrothgar the Dolmens are still being constructed because the wing of the Worm Cult that is incharge of constructing them are out of contact with the core Cult.

The reason we dont see Dolmens in Morrowind is likely due to Vivecs presence on the island. He and Molag Bal at one point were involved and when it ended. It ended with Vivec leaving with quite a bit of Molag Bal in hand. So its much more likely that Molag Bal didnt want to test fate and possibly drag Vivec into the conflict early enough to interfere with his plans.

The thing about a Dragon Break, and all the shenanigans that occur is that not only can multiple things be happening at once but time itself and the timeline of events can be scrambled. Your Vestige may have stopped Molag Bal prior to going to Morrowind but My Vestige went to Morrowind before heading off to stop Molag Bal. Neither is wrong, and in the end the results are the same.

@Korah_Eaglecry

Okay so what about Hews Bane and the Gold Coast? There are no dolmens there either.

Either way, the threat of Molag Bal is over. Reading journals in Wrothgar and Morrowind, the dates shown are different to the rest of Tamriel because the events are happening after the main story line.

Varen clearly states a new threat is coming when the gates of Clockwork city are reopened so to my original point, which was the Morrowind and main story line are NOT happening simultaneously is undeniable a fact.

Its possible the Dolmen Builders never made it to Hews Bane and the Gold Coast. We encounter them in Wrothgar. So if you play Wrothgar and kill them. Youve prevented them from moving on to new areas. If you do Thieves Guild/DB first and then go to Wrothgar they are still there working and you kill them, they still dont make it to other regions. Yes, Wrothgar and Morrowinds dates dont line up with what we see in the Base Game, but that doesnt mean time is necessarily moving in a linear fashion. Timewarps do all sorts of wonky stuff. There may very well be a linear way these quests and storylines are supposed to be experienced. But when youre dealing with something that causes Time to behave in a manner that we dont normally experience it. Theres no telling how things are going to turn out.

In normal time Events might happen in a A, B, C, D fashion. But during a Dragonbreak or a Timewarp. That sequence might become A, C, D, B. Or C, B, A, D and so forth. And all possible sequences become the correct sequence simultaneously. So A, B, C, D and C, B, A, D become the correct way it happened and they both happen at the same time. Weirdly enough the change with One Tamriel actually fixes the games issue with linear events so that it lines up more closely with how a Dragonbreak would work.

Morrowind takes place after the events of the main story. The only reason ZOS let new players start their adventure there was because they anticipated a ton of new players (fuelled by nostalgia) buying the game just to play Morrowind.

A piece of mandatory dialogue with a very important NPC at the end of Orsinium tells you very clearly that the next chapter in your adventure will take you Clockwork City where you'll need to stop someone from doing something (this is the plot of Morrowind).

If you talk to every NPC/read all books, you can also very clearly see the chronology of events.

For any new players, it's:

1. Main story
2. Orsinium
3. Dark Brotherhood
4. Morrowind
5. Clockwork City

Thieve's Guild and Craglorn happen outside of the main story arc.

lordrichter wrote: »

I agree that Morrowind fractured the story line in ESO and made it a muddy mess. The alternate starting point does not integrate well with the rest of the game.

logarifmik wrote: »

Concept of wayshrining in Morrowind seems out of place to me, when you start the game with fresh character on the boat to Vvardenfell. Devs made a decent transportation system on the island, so why not to force new-comers to use it instead of wayshrines, and make wayshrines only usable by those who lost they souls already. Why? Well, because Lord Corvus Direnni said that in order to use wayshrines as portals traveler's mortal soul must be "unmoored from the Mundus" (check "Wayshrines of Tamriel" by Beredalmo the Signifier for more details on the subject).

Yes, you should only be able to resurrect at a wayshrine prior to the Wailing Prison. No wayshrine fast travel. However, can you even imagine the whining and complaining that would go on in here if characters could not use wayshrines? The original Morrowind was a walking simulator, and people already complain that Cyrodiil is a horse simulator. They would be crying like stuck pigs about "Elder Slow Online".

When my wife and I were playing the OG Morrowind, we were so happy when we found out where to get Mark and Recall....we abused the crap out it, LOL.

They will have to do something about the *time* axis at some point, or else with each """chapter""" the story complexity will either turn out to be unmanageable to the point they would not even bother.

Some sort of "era" or phase that you could select to see the world as it was before the major events happen, so at teleport time you could also move between these phases too... and the story tracks that dimension and hopefully, they would be able to provide satisfying NPC reactions/dialogs for different "phase" settings.

Up to now, there's no sense of before/after... you either already did the quests or not... but with each quest that provides some sort of change in the world the complexity increases (for example, if ever one of the important NPCs die)

IMO, it would be better if they managed it in a coarse manner... as in, "vanilla" age, "morrowind" age, "orsinium" age, etc...

As long as you you still teleport to the destination AT time X, the timeline could be preserved perfectly and everyone would be able to experience all the content in the order they want... (and, IMO there would be less "breakage" storywise)

On a slight tangent, is it the Red Mountain that's in the middle of Stonefalls or is that another volcano...?

Ahhh. I think what had me confused is that one of the three set drops is called Red Mountain.

Also the loading screen for Shadowfen says it's "on the border with Morrowind"... NOT.

Morrowind wasn't an expansion for the game itself, it was a fresh start. Tbh, Morrowind felt flat to give something meaningful to the game. It really was a change of orientation from daerda to openland orientation.

As the game progress really less daedric stuff started to happen while a lot more human stuff took place. I personally hope daedra would come back since they are to my opinion the real deal but I am also more of an oblivion fan then a morrowind one so...

@Enodoc Okay then perhaps I've been under a misapprehension all this time. (I did try to play Morrowind, but didn't like it... because I'd played Oblivion first... so I'm not familiar with the area other than what appears in ESO.) So obviously Morrowind is not just Vvardenfell, it includes Deshaan and Stonefalls?

Recently started a new toon on Xbox NA after being EU from launch.

Waa looking forward to seeing the game from a new persons perspective today. And I feel the same after the tutorial, got to Vivec city and it all just feels confused. So I high failed out of there to start the Pact questline and Bleakrock has never felt more like home.

Adsitionally. With no CP, no gear etc but what I could fine the game is WAY too easy. Things are melting with non-set armour and mismatch of gear. Scaling seems wrong.

Enodoc wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

LadyLethalla wrote: »

@Enodoc Okay then perhaps I've been under a misapprehension all this time. (I did try to play Morrowind, but didn't like it... because I'd played Oblivion first... so I'm not familiar with the area other than what appears in ESO.) So obviously Morrowind is not just Vvardenfell, it includes Deshaan and Stonefalls?

Yes, and also the Telvanni Peninsula and an area that runs up along Skyrim parallel to Vvardenfell http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Morrowind

Right. It doesn't help that the game Morrowind, and the ESO chapter Morrowind, both take place primarily on Vvardenfell without much consideration of the rest of the province.

Agreed. Aside from Marketing reasons, I felt that the Morrowind Chapter should have been named something else.

zaria wrote: »

Yes, its an stupid explanation and way overkill here.
The timeline as in the fall of the empire starts before your character is created, the war in cyrodil has gone on for some time for one. You can go to the mainland and destroy dolmens and do the fighter guild quest even before the main quest.
No dolmen in Morrowind, craglorn and Orsinium because it was prevented, The event in craglorn was in part to block the dolmens and this backfired.
The main quest is to stop the risk of invasion and beat back molarg bal, it don't affect other stuff much.
You character either do Morrowind first or later, both makes sense in as an story.

You also have the standard issue with open world video games and MMO in special, why can I run the same dungeon 10 times in a row killing the same boss?

Sure I understand it. My only point was: do not use Dragon Break to explain design flaws and game conventionality. It's a lore feature, and it shouldn't be used for such matters.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Your opinion of what is a flaw, is not universal. You used a meme to be an *** because you otherwise couldnt argue my point. You werent making a point at all. Only that you cant interact with someone in a normal manner when someone doesnt agree with your position.

You again? You are a bit touchy and spleeny, aren't you? Sure my opinion isn't universal, and I never said that. Well, alright, lets go through the whole thing once more. Let me remind you a little, what did you and I said on the subject.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Its possible the Dolmen Builders never made it to Hews Bane and the Gold Coast. We encounter them in Wrothgar. So if you play Wrothgar and kill them. Youve prevented them from moving on to new areas. If you do Thieves Guild/DB first and then go to Wrothgar they are still there working and you kill them, they still dont make it to other regions. Yes, Wrothgar and Morrowinds dates dont line up with what we see in the Base Game, but that doesnt mean time is necessarily moving in a linear fashion. Timewarps do all sorts of wonky stuff. There may very well be a linear way these quests and storylines are supposed to be experienced. But when youre dealing with something that causes Time to behave in a manner that we dont normally experience it. Theres no telling how things are going to turn out.

In normal time Events might happen in a A, B, C, D fashion. But during a Dragonbreak or a Timewarp. That sequence might become A, C, D, B. Or C, B, A, D and so forth. And all possible sequences become the correct sequence simultaneously. So A, B, C, D and C, B, A, D become the correct way it happened and they both happen at the same time. Weirdly enough the change with One Tamriel actually fixes the games issue with linear events so that it lines up more closely with how a Dragonbreak would work.

After that there was a meme on which you are allergic obviously, then you complained how bad I communicate with people, and then in a very civilized manner I said the following: "I'm just saying, that trying to explain every design flaw with the Dragon Break is a ridiculous abuse of the Dragon God of Time." By "flaw" here I mean ESO messed timeline, which have no good explanation. In my opinion, it's an overlook. Sure, we can think about it as a game conventionality, but things was a little bit different before One Tamriel and the Morrowind, don't you think?
Summarazing, I don't mind non-linear time tricks, but they should be explained from the lore point of view, and not with a Dragon Break definitely. Please, just read about this particular definition and you'll understand why. Rather then that, I have no objections. And please, retort constructively. If you are not able to, don't answer to this post at all, because next your meaningless scribble I'll ignore for sure.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

If you talk to every NPC/read all books, you can also very clearly see the chronology of events.

For any new players, it's:

1. Main story
2. Orsinium
3. Dark Brotherhood
4. Morrowind
5. Clockwork City

Xundiin wrote: »

1. Morrowind
2. Main Story
3. Orsinium
4. Dark Brotherhood
5. Clockwork City.

The first quote might be how the chronology goes, but the second quote is closer to how the game goes. By this, I mean the order that Main Quest and Morrowind appear in the lists. They wanted players to enter the shiny new Chapter, wrote the new Tutorial to support it, and dumped people into Vvardenfell. If you have Morrowind, you cannot play the game any other way. Now, we have existing players and characters where the events on Vvardenfell happen after the Soulburst, and new players and characters where Vvardenfell happens before the Soulburst.

That is a game design flaw, and while people might want to use a dragon break to reconcile it, it should not have happened that way in the first place. There should be no reason why any reconciliation is needed. It is the same studio designing the same game. They can make a player experience and story that fits together, if they want to. This is a case where they had conflicting goals and just decided to just run with it. They didn't want to.

Is this just another case of where "good enough" is all they aspired to?

(In case you are wondering, there should not be a chronological order to any of the individual events in the game. Vvardenfell and Soulburst should be happening at the same time as Orsinium and Clockwork City. We should be able to pick which one we want to start with. All the stories and lore should be written to support and emphasize that.)