Nope. People need to put the time in. If we short cut everything that require effort we'll be buying CP690 fully leveled end game toons before we know it.

And its heading P2W I know many Sorcs who haven't bothered, and would buy it thru laziness just for extra boost. Thus those that have real world cash get a bit short cut to a decent ultimate, mega passives.

If you play the game right / slow and zone clear getting the books isn't much effort as you go the places anyway.

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Nope. People need to put the time in. If we short cut everything that require effort we'll be buying CP690 fully leveled end game toons before we know it.

And its heading P2W I know many Sorcs who haven't bothered, and would buy it thru laziness just for extra boost. Thus those that have real world cash get a bit short cut to a decent ultimate, mega passives.

If you play the game right / slow and zone clear getting the books isn't much effort as you go the places anyway.

Cause yea people love having to spend 5-6 hours on pc and 10+ on console on 3-4 characters just running around getting books. I get where you're coming from. But its annoying. There are books you cant get without doing a quest. You have to go through a whole 40-50 min quest line in Evermarch just to finish that zones set of books. It takes too much. The other idea I had was buff the mages daily quests. They only give 1 book worth of xp

Oh you mean that book where you can just say in zone/guild chat "anyone tp me to the wayshrine in Skuldafn" which takes all of 20 seconds and the book is at the side of the wayshrine when you arrive...

Getting to Mages Guild 10 is much easier than it used to be because of the dailies. Through picking up the books that you find as you're questing, in addition to the dailies, you'll be at 10 in no time.

I think if we’ve done it on one character we should be able to purchase like a book for each zone that shows where the books are. I don’t really care either way but it’s daunting making a magicka character knowing I’ll have to get to 10.

Console plsyers don't get a nifty addon to cheat your way to book locations.

So don't tell me about putting in the time.

lordrichter wrote: »

monktoasty wrote: »

Console plsyers don't get a nifty addon to cheat your way to book locations.

So don't tell me about putting in the time.

Not all PC players use those add-ons, and yet we manage to get to level 10. The silly things glow bright enough to light up the area. It isn't hard.

Don’t belittle us for wanting something to be easier. Play with zero adds on for a day, @lordrichter and let us know how that goes. None at all.

Put it in crown store for an incredible high price and problem solved. If people want to buy, let them. All others, including me, will grind.

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

monktoasty wrote: »

Console plsyers don't get a nifty addon to cheat your way to book locations.

So don't tell me about putting in the time.

Not all PC players use those add-ons, and yet we manage to get to level 10. The silly things glow bright enough to light up the area. It isn't hard.

Don’t belittle us for wanting something to be easier. Play with zero adds on for a day, @lordrichter and let us know how that goes. None at all.

I play with 0 addons. He is right, they are loud and bright af. To be quite honest with you, if you just follow the main path through the region, they are easy to find. If you have mages guild on 3 characters there is not really an excuse to have not figured out an optimal way to grind it. It's a 3/4 hour grind if you do it correctly. Boring af but still.

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

monktoasty wrote: »

Console plsyers don't get a nifty addon to cheat your way to book locations.

So don't tell me about putting in the time.

Not all PC players use those add-ons, and yet we manage to get to level 10. The silly things glow bright enough to light up the area. It isn't hard.

Don’t belittle us for wanting something to be easier. Play with zero adds on for a day, @lordrichter and let us know how that goes. None at all.

Hi. I also play on PS4.

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

monktoasty wrote: »

Console plsyers don't get a nifty addon to cheat your way to book locations.

So don't tell me about putting in the time.

Not all PC players use those add-ons, and yet we manage to get to level 10. The silly things glow bright enough to light up the area. It isn't hard.

Don’t belittle us for wanting something to be easier. Play with zero adds on for a day, @lordrichter and let us know how that goes. None at all.

I've gotten Mages to 10 without add-ons for PC more than once. They were made to be spotted, like skyshards.

The issue some are arguing here is the line between convenience and pay-to-win.

That line is blurry.

Some people may say "if they let people buy Mages 10 then I want to buy..." as a joke or to score points, but that isn't always the case. Because seriously, I got fed up grinding dungeons and other content through heavy RNG to maybe get the pieces for a set I wanted to try out. I also got tired of not having lots of high end crafting tempers.

So if I asked to be able to buy gold tempers in the store, does that really count as pay to win?

If I asked to be able to buy a white quality bundle of gear from a particular set but had to boost the quality and change the item traits myself, is that now pay to win?

The problem with people arguing over what is convenience versus pay-to-win is that all MMORPGs are based on inconvenience. You want a high level. You want a particular mount. You want access to certain content. You want a particular costume. You want a particular gear set. You want to unlock (flying, crafting, etc.). So the devs put the things players want behind walls. You have to explore. Quest. Grind. You have to be inconvenienced. Otherwise, if you just had max level, all maps unlocked and cleared, all quests done, all gear best-in-slot, and all achievements unlocked when you started playing, there would be not much to do.

This is why the whole "we won't do pay-to-win just convenience" is such a slippery slope since ZOS can define which types of convenience count and which do not. The typical definition of pay-to-win is that you can get something *only* in the cash shop, or, you can technically get it in game but it is just too ridiculously hard to actually get in game. If getting Mages 10 is really so hard to get, putting it in the shop would be P2W. If it isn't, it could be counted as a convenience. But, going back to the other examples, that means buying gold tempers from the cash shop is also not P2W. Nor is getting my white bundle of (name gear set type here). They aren't unreasonable, ridiculously hard to get, I just don't have the time or patience.

So there really is something beyond just the labels "convenience" and "pay-to-win". It's a place where the issue is neither, but instead is seen by some as taking away from the game experience, as cheapening it in some way. This is how many players felt when ZOS added Lycanthropy and Werewolf to the Crown store when players in game were trying to charge other players a fortune for a bite. We could call this P2S ("pay-to-slack" or "pay-to-skip"), which other games have had to deal with when introducing jump or boost potions to skip quests and/or get to close to max level.

Really then, the question many people are arguing over is whether a proposed addition to the cash shop is a minor, reasonable convenience or whether it is P2S. And one can make a decent argument that getting Mages 10 in the cash shop is P2S. But that decision rests solely with ZOS.

I think if a skill line has gotten to max level on at least one character on an account then the player should be granted max level on those skills on future characters. I don't think it should be able to be payed for with money.

idk wrote: »

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Why is this not a thing? Honestly. The grind is horrible. Especially on console, Its not a "pay to win" idea it's literally a "pay for convenience" idea...They would honestly make a killing off of it in my opinion.

The reason is ESO would begin to look more like Neverwinter. Buying an entire skill line would be considered P2W and is what Arc does with their games.

In yours and others’ opinions whilst simultaneously not in mine and others’ opinions.

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Why is this not a thing? Honestly. The grind is horrible. Especially on console, Its not a "pay to win" idea it's literally a "pay for convenience" idea...They would honestly make a killing off of it in my opinion.

The reason is ESO would begin to look more like Neverwinter. Buying an entire skill line would be considered P2W and is what Arc does with their games.

In yours and others’ opinions whilst simultaneously not in mine and others’ opinions.

P2W = paying real money to get some kind of advantage over other players.

You want to pay real money to unlock a skill line, which would give you an advantage over those who don’t.

P2W

Stovahkiin wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Why is this not a thing? Honestly. The grind is horrible. Especially on console, Its not a "pay to win" idea it's literally a "pay for convenience" idea...They would honestly make a killing off of it in my opinion.

The reason is ESO would begin to look more like Neverwinter. Buying an entire skill line would be considered P2W and is what Arc does with their games.

In yours and others’ opinions whilst simultaneously not in mine and others’ opinions.

P2W = paying real money to get some kind of advantage over other players.

You want to pay real money to unlock a skill line, which would give you an advantage over those who don’t.

P2W

By that incorrect definition, ESO is already P2W because you can already buy the following to get an advantage over those who don’t:
- mount upgrades (carry more and move faster for longer)
- ESO+ (XP gain, inspiration boost, craft bag)
- consumables (saves using in-game materials)

So all you are actually arguing by using that incorrect definition of P2W is that a game which has already has P2W features shouldn’t have another. Kinda hypocritical, don’t you think?