Hluill wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Hluill wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Hluill wrote: »

I have had similar issues.

I keep running into times when I am low in particular tiers of materials. With the furniture recipes I am finding that I have to level up one toon in ALL crafting disciplines. So all of a sudden, I need some wood that is some tier that I have collected at all.

Another problem I ran into was when a toon leveled to the next tier and I had a lack of materials for that tier from which to make their gear.

Yeah, repec'ing skill-points and globetrotting to browse Guild Stores is a pain, but the only option.

Well, adapt...

pre-1T you built new gear when you hit a new tier.

post-1T its easier and almost as good to craft gear at the top of a tier.

hit level 14, craft level 14 then to carry you thru say 16-24 or maybe just halfway.

use the mats you harvest during a tier to craft top of that tier to wear during the next tier.

easy and simple adjustment.

@STEVIL !!!!

I know you are a highly intelligent, helpful person, but I can't help but feel a bit of condescension in your reply...

We've had this discussion before.

I have adapted, thanks. I know how to navigate this game's moronic crafting system. Just because we have found solutions to some of the system's problems doesn't make the problem disappear.

From time to time I realize" Wow, I need to get some hickory. How can I get some Hickory?" It's a pain that I can't just go to where hickory grows and gather some like I do, and even enjoy, in other games. It's a pain that sometimes in character progression I may not have had an opportunity to gather much Hickory and now have to shop guild stores to find some.

My memory is cloudy, but it was particularly painful as my main was advancing through the tiers from 10-160 CP. It's like five tiers in there and I never seemed to have enough materials to gear up. On top of that I was watching my damage rating drop dramatically, even when i equipped the new stuff.

So, I feel the OP's pain.

Well, ok, so... may i make a suggestion we may find constructive then.

When it comes time that you choose to post on a thread where folks are discussion difficulties they are having with a system...
and you decide to post a bit of you own history of problems with the same issue...
but it is an issue you have learned how to adjust to, to deal with, to adapt to....
when it is a challenge or difficulty you have overcome...
then...
instead of just posting another example of a problem and leaving it hanging there like an unresolved issue **ALSO** type a sentence or two about what you just did to push back on my response - tell them that you already figured out how to adapt to it and how to overcome it and post that info as well.

Posting a "problem" on a discussion board tends to almost always have someone respond offering advice on how to adapt to it, to improvise around it or to overcome it.

Its an expected outcome.

Posting a problem and also how you overcame it already... that has different results and i would argue usually better results.

Um, I did post my work around: "Respecc'ing or shopping Guild Stores"

STEVIL wrote: »

Also, now that you throw in other peeves you have i will respond to just a bit about them...

"On top of that I was watching my damage rating drop dramatically, even when i equipped the new stuff. "

I have leveled iirc six characters from 1 to 50 max cp since 1T came out. it is **not** true that equipping high level gear lowers you damage levels. That is simply not true unless it is done by some action like equipping a one handed weapon when you previously had a two-handed weapon *or* you equip an item of a lower quality *or* you equip weapons with different/lower passives and skill advancement

A level 16 character wearing level 10 armor equips level 14 gear - ratings should go up (barring weapon type, passives and quality changes.)

Now, to be direct, your statement was "even when I equipped" so maybe you really meant "when i equipped the better armor it went up but not as much as it once was" but it really seemed to be linking "equipped better armor" and "damage rating went dow" in the way you wrote it and particularly in light of the topic of this thread being about crafting gear - not overall damage scaling which is where that issue comes from..

To be clear for any wondering about that oblique refernece to damage ratings - nothing changes - works the same as it did - mechanically - only change is the *labels* shown shift around due to scaling and all your enemies are of equal *level* now. (which is not the same as difficulty.)

Not sure of your point here. As I said, my memory on the specifics is not exact. But, somewhere in the forties, the damage rating of weapons starts decreasing. I realize that there are several variables in play. As a scroll through the tiers in my crafting window, I can see the drop. As I compare gear in the equipment window, I can see the drop. As I compare performance of my character with the new gear, I see the drop.

I added this point to the OP's thread because it's part of the issue. Because it's hard to gather material for higher and lower tiers, it adds insult to injury that the new, higher-tiered gear isn't more effective.

STEVIL wrote: »

For what its worth i wish they had added to 1T the ideas of farms and mines - a few small sections in each zone where the "lower tier mats" exist to be farmed when needed. The massive benefits of scaled nodes is great but a small nod to them that does not involved random chests would be nice. They could also give us "gardens" and "veins" "springs" and the like that we can put in our houses - allowing "harvesting" of non-top-tier materials. they could also have allowed higher tier mats to be used to craft lower tier gear.

There are a lot of options where a single addition would have given a bit of a nod to those wanting to gather lower tier mats than the character is operating at... i wish they had chosen one.

But locked rewards tiers determined by your zone and politics... that was bad for many many reasons.

~sighs and laughs~

I am perplexed by your criticism of my post. On the one hand your telling me I am wrong to commiserate with the OP. On the other hand you "wish" that they had added gathering options for lower tiers. This make me think that you commiserate with us as well.

Sure, posting whiny complaints is less than constructive. But, criticizing game mechanics, like the way the nodes scale, is not only a long standing tradition of gaming but can also lead to game improvements. I think of the way chess has evolved over the centuries.

You're right, my response could've been better constructed. I should have said: I feel your pain. I've had similar issues. This is how I deal with it. This is the change I'd wish they'd make.

I apologize for my poor response. Thanks for trying to make me a better poster.

"Not sure of your point here. As I said, my memory on the specifics is not exact. But, somewhere in the forties, the damage rating of weapons starts decreasing. I realize that there are several variables in play. As a scroll through the tiers in my crafting window, I can see the drop. As I compare gear in the equipment window, I can see the drop. As I compare performance of my character with the new gear, I see the drop. "

Again, equipping better gear does not lower your values or stats. What you are seeing is an artifact of scaling, nothing to do with equipping better gear.

let me explain.

When you look at a weapon stats in a crafting window on character ABC, you see a weapon value for damage. (WV)
That WV is a "calculated value" and is dependent on several factors outside of the weapon... not a "fixed value."
In the crafting window, a level 46 MAUL white quality will show different weapon stats if being constructed by a level 10 character, a level 20 character a level 40 character and so on. literally every level (AFAIK) will show a different Wv for that weapons.
Craft it and move it to inventory, move it bank between those characters and that displayed WV will vary back and forth as it goes along.

Thats because the WV displayed is a calculated values based off the intersection of character level and the weapons level.

Basically this is how the values are displayed:

What is shown is the scaled value. Scaled value = SUM OF (a basic weapon damage factor based on the items level and type (maul, level 20, white)) and (scaling modifier based off CHARACTER LEVEL - basically this is bigger the lower the character is.)

So, put a level 20 item on a level 20 character. The character is "down" 30 levels and gets scaled 30 levels up and the WV is scaled by 30 levels up too. Easy right.

Move that same level 20 item to a level 30 character - The character is down 20 levels and gets scaled 20 levels up and the weapon is scaled 20 levels up and... notice now that the item is a level 20 with 20 levels of scaling and thus... net lower value.

So in the second case, reading the tool tip would see the WV as lower when the maul was carried by a level 30 than a level 20

**This is a gross simplification since skills, passives and other things can also affect tooltips between characters but...parabis ceteris this is how it works.**

But, as stated i have never seen a case where a character at level XX takes off a maul of level X and equips a maul of level X+Y of same quality etc and saw the value go down.

What folks tend to notice and get confused about is that the character at level 20 wearing level 20 gear usually has better numbers than that character at level 25 wearing the same gear - barring passives etc - but that is because the scaling changed, not because "better gear" was added.

***And the funniest part is this is exactly how it worked before, just with labels changed. This did not change with 1T coming in. it has, i think, always been there.***

PRE-1T non-scaled world.

• level 30 character in level 30 gear fighting level 30 monster performs at X capability..
• level 30 character in level 20 gear fighting level 30 monster performs at lower than X capability because the gains from his gear are lower than the gains the monster saw. His gear is sub-par so he now performs worse against equal to him opposition. While his labels went up - his performance went down because the monster values were raised more than he was. The label increase was more or less illusion or misleading because it did not give a fair estimate of what it would now take to defeat equal monsters.

POST-1T Scaled world.

level 30 character in level 30 gear fighting level 30 monster performs at X capability..
level 30 character in level 20 gear fighting level 30 monster performs at lower than X capability because the gains from "scaling" on his gear are now 20 scalings, not 30 scalings. The monster stats stayed the same, they did not change. They were consistent. The tooltips now show him the actual "loss" in capability compared to his adversaries.

NET result is the same in both systems - let your gear slide behind your level and see performance against equal threats diminish. For optimal performance, keep gear close to or matching your character level.

Only difference was before you had no "obvious" value presented to show you the losses short of combat practice - now - its on your screen.

So, the result did not change, the key to performance did not change, all that really changed was you can more easily see the same kind of drop in performance right there on your character's numbers as opposed to being shown "higher numbers" and having them mean less in fact.

this was brought about by them standardizing all adversaries to your one effective level.

So, again to the base point as to why it matters, telling someone your values go down by equipping better gear is misinformed and misleading and the key point is it actually pushes against the truth of how to get higher numbers which is as far as the base equipment goes... equip gear at your level or as close as possible - parabus ceteris.

STEVIL wrote: »

But, as stated i have never seen a case where a character at level XX takes off a maul of level X and equips a maul of level X+Y of same quality etc and saw the value go down.

Arma virumque cano.

I have seen this, starting in the late forties into the CPs.

I think you for the explanation on why a low-level crafter would see this. But, as I've seen when equipping the the new weapon and in the damage performance. At a point in her forties, my main had a damage value of over two-thousand (at one point, she had twenty-two hundred). As she progressed through the forties and into her Champion points, her damage value dropped into the nineteen-hundreds. Each new weapon dropped it further.

I have quite vivid memories of standing in the guild traders and at bankers looking at the gear comparisons. I have quite vivid memories of doing less damage. Was it majorly significant? Probably not, but it was notable and frustrating to lose power and effectiveness as I leveled, particularly with the added challenge of gathering higher-tiered materials. It was my first time to Cold-Harbor and i felt pretty gimped.

Apologies to the OP for the tangent.

Hluill wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

But, as stated i have never seen a case where a character at level XX takes off a maul of level X and equips a maul of level X+Y of same quality etc and saw the value go down.

Arma virumque cano.

I have seen this, starting in the late forties into the CPs.

I think you for the explanation on why a low-level crafter would see this. But, as I've seen when equipping the the new weapon and in the damage performance. At a point in her forties, my main had a damage value of over two-thousand (at one point, she had twenty-two hundred). As she progressed through the forties and into her Champion points, her damage value dropped into the nineteen-hundreds. Each new weapon dropped it further.

I have quite vivid memories of standing in the guild traders and at bankers looking at the gear comparisons. I have quite vivid memories of doing less damage. Was it majorly significant? Probably not, but it was notable and frustrating to lose power and effectiveness as I leveled, particularly with the added challenge of gathering higher-tiered materials. It was my first time to Cold-Harbor and i felt pretty gimped.

Apologies to the OP for the tangent.

fine, show it.

the "how the system works" as i described part is easily demonstrable and verifiable in minutes for many characters at different levels.

your claim of having somewhere in the 40s it suddenly turn on its head and work in reverse... no problem i am willing to be shown different.

the only designed exception to the process is from the early "boost" to low level characters but that gradually fades out by 20 and even then it never "reverses" the process, creating a loss, just reduces the gain.

So, i welcome you to provide screenshots and examples of it being the way the game works.

thanks.

EDIT i can say this... somewhere around mid-40s my characters would redo their weapons at least, if not their armor, and if like you say it was level by level each new weapon over and over, that would have shown then when i did those and i do not recall that ever happening.

So, is it possible that it never happened at the exact spots i did so? sure. it is possible that at some points there the whole system turned upside down - but so far we have no evidence to support that. And i welcome that evidence.