Should you tell a PUG their DPS just sucks? Or just roll with it?

radiostar · December 2017

Just wondering if that is too cruel, or is that actually helping them out?

Seems everyone has no problem telling the Heals they are not up to snuff, right? "Blame the Healer."

What if DPS just can't get the job done and you're spamming heals like a fool?

Quit, and say "It's probably me, replace me with a more powerful Heals"? Or say "We can't complete this boss because your DPS is not breaking him/her down fast enough"?

Which is preferred etiquette?

Betsararie · December 2017

Not too cruel if true.

It is helping them, but whether or not they are going to take the advice is up to them. 99% of the time they won't.

If they are bad, feel free to comment on their performance or, just kick them. If someone is getting in the way of completing the run, no reason to keep them in the group.

CavalryPK · December 2017

If they have bad DPS. i would ask if they wanna improve. if they dont... then i would leave the group.

DiePainPain · December 2017

let talk about pure stupidity, like a DPS using 1h+shield and and a archer using only light attacks..........

Ackwalan · December 2017

If you have something constructive to say, by all means say it. If you are just saying your DPS sucks, you're just a jerk.

TheUndeadAmulet · December 2017

Depends on your definition of suck. If it's completely pitiful (like below 8k dps) then tell them. If both dps are doing that little on a vet then your kinda screwed. If its normal don't worry about it.

ThePrinceOfBargains · December 2017

On Normal, role with it.
On Veteran, leave.

Kel · December 2017

I think it depends on the content and the players experience. First time in a dungeon is really learning at its base level.
And I only tell players things like that if have the knowledge to actually help them. I never bring up a problem unless I would have a solution to it in real life, why would I do that in a game?

Narvuntien · December 2017

Man its suuuuuuper awkward.

I was doing a random normal (FG1) and there was a dps literially just bow light attacking.

"Hey, do you need some help with how to play?"
"He knows how to play he is just lazy"
"Oh, sorry, since this is the beginner dungeon and no one is taught to dps I can't ever be sure anyone knows what they are doing"

Swen_von_Walhallion · December 2017

ThePrinceOfBargains wrote: »

On Normal, role with it.
On Veteran, leave.

well at event i meet with my DK tank, which is stadart buld for hard contet (torug + ebon + bloodspawn/warden) whi have group dps10k and i with my fully defes build on DK have 3k even in normal it was doable .... sad is my little teplar lvl 20 with hybrid buld in ful heavy can easy get on 10-15k dps by spamin one skill, it must be rly great skill mak around 2kdps i think

Taleof2Cities · December 2017

radiostar wrote: »

Which is preferred etiquette?

The preferred etiquette is on you first.

You’re the one that needs to decide on your tolerance level for pugging a dungeon.

If you have the time and patience for (the possibility of) low DPS ... then that’s totally fine. Same goes for subpar heals. Bonus if you can help players improve their skills during the run with constructive feedback.

But, if you don’t have the time or patience, then you’d better find some guildies or competent friends to get the task completed.

A simple search in the forums will yield many complaint threads from players who decided to pug a dungeon ... and then didn’t have the patience with their groupmates.

Runefang · December 2017

If group dps is fine I'm good. If both dps are bad I say 'Dps is too low sorry' and leave.

If just one is bad and you can tell which (its always the one whose aoe dots aren't going). Then ill ask them to do more dps by telling them to use their dots. Probably have to kick them, if the vote fails I leave. In either case I whisper to the dps to tell them which skills they need to have running.

I guarantee it's somebody who is either not using wall of elements + class aoe OR stam not using endless hail + poison arrow + caltrops. High uptime on those skills plus a spammable skill nets you sufficient dps for almost all content.

radiostar · December 2017

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

radiostar wrote: »

Which is preferred etiquette?

You’re the one that needs to decide on your tolerance level for pugging a dungeon

Yes, after 1 hour trying to kill the boss I offered to leave. But I didn't want to hit anyone's morale.

yttoks · December 2017

I just roll with it, depending. My DPS is high enough to carry a bad DPS through a lot of content. If they ask for help, I'm happy to give it. If they don't say anything to broach the subject, then I'd rather go a little slow/skip HM and not deal with any potential drama. If it's gonna mean a wipe, then I'll say something and/or leave.

But then it's usually not a question of just helping someone get better and finishing the content. Honestly, if you're in any vet DLC other than maybe WGT with a DPS that can't pull 10K, no amount of talking is going to make the difference. Time for someone to go.

SydneyGrey · December 2017

I say just roll with it. Anything you say would probably sound like bullying to them, and once they're in the dungeon it's pretty much too late for them to make major changes to their build right then. The best thing you could hope for is that maybe they could switch out one skill for another, but they might not have that "other" skill unlocked, especially if they're low level.
If you PUG, then you have to expect to be put in with incompetent DPS, tanks and healers sometimes.

Apache_Kid · December 2017

Say something. I always try to offer advice if they want it. I don't mind handing out basic tips that can bring you to 15k DPS without even trying. However 9 times out of 10 the player either doesn't respond or have their chat off. Then I continue to seeth to myself that someone would have the audacity to waste my time by queuing as a DPS and doing only Resto staff heavy attacks throughout the entire dungeon.

TheDarkShadow · December 2017

The other day I did a vet EH II with 2, not 1, but BOTH DDs, just spam light and heavy attack. 1 of them also drop liquid lightning and I think that's all. Not even a pet as a mag Sorc. Me and the tank have to carry them thru, waste thousands gold on pots and soul gems on them. They don't rez, don't ask for mechanics, don't ask for tips to increase dps. Probably because they saw that we're still "doing ok".

I were so torn between being "elitist" and telling them they're suck, or just let it slight and maybe they thought it's ok to queue for another Vet. Finally, because we're still "doing ok" though costly, I didn't vote kick or say a word (but me and the tank did trade some secret "lol" via /tell), but deep down... I'm so sick of it.

EvilAutoTech · December 2017

My main is a tank because I eventually got a target dummy. It took forever. No one had ever told me I was awful. I would have switched long ago if I knew how bad I was.

Betsararie · December 2017

Another thing, is I'd most likely keep my mouth shut in normal. Reason being normal is actually designed for baddies, you can literally light attack your way through. It's vet where you can really give them a strong dose of the truth.... lest they adapt or continue to be a nuisance

mocap · December 2017

if i'm a tank and dungeon is long like CoA 2, then quit and play healer. As healer i mostly DPS and with my humble 18-20k dps (single target) i can play with all that dumb light attack archers and 2h heavy attack dovakins.

Ruckly · December 2017

I tanked a dungeon with a templar dps spamming eclipse on melee trash mobs. I don't think he understood aoe snares(so the melee mobs have more running around without anything to hit time) and the priority of taunting ranged mobs to keep them off the healer so the healer can dps. Or the fact that melee mobs in dungeons swing maybe once every three seconds. I've seen templar dps use backlash on non-elite trash mobs even though it's a waste of a gcd and if it goes off dps is lousy anyways.

however even with lousy dps a templar tank gets the all powerful healing ritual and can go just about forever. If the healer is also a templar with healing ritual the dungeon is over. eventually.

MLGProPlayer · December 2017

I don't because it doesn't matter in dungeons. You can solo all of this content. When I queue for vet pledges, the other players are just 3 bodies. I don't expect them to contribute in any way, just to provide aggro. If they do contribute, that's a bonus. No sense in creating animosity if there is no need for it.

FrancisCrawford · December 2017

There was only one time during the recent event that I joined a group in progress. And my Level 32 templar was immediately the highest-level character in a fairly easy dungeon (Arx Corinium). I both healed and did a considerable fraction of the DPS. It was fun.

Frankly, healing is often so easy as to be boring unless the group is flawed.

Even Fungal Grotto 1 can be a little challenging to heal when you need to kite the bosses.

Darth_Trumpious · December 2017

Don't listen or talk to PUGs when on random normal
Don't group with PUGs when on vet

EZPZ

MattT1988 · December 2017

If someone asks for help and I know a way to help, I’ll help. I know a fair bit about the game but I DEFINITELY don’t know everything, no one knows everything, as much as a lot of people on here like to think they do. Always happy to help if I can and if I’m asked.

GrigorijMalahevich · December 2017

Normal - who cares
Veteran - non DLC - thanks to Alpha Gear one button swap to vMA build
Veteran - DLC - just leave

Robo_Hobo · December 2017

If anyone asks for tips or suggestions then I'll happily give any advice I might know, but otherwise I'd just much rather go through the dungeon a little slower than bring a topic up like that, and even if I were to, it would probably be in PM after the dungeon is over, starting with asking if they're interested in having any advice in the first place.

I don't pug Vet DLC dungeons though cause I've never done one on vet with a premade group yet even, and I don't feel confident enough that I wouldn't be possibly holding some people back on them if I did.

agegarton · December 2017

Anyone who “just leaves” is an assh0le who shouldn’t be playing grown up social games.

If it really is an issue and the job isn’t getting done - and let’s be honest, there are plenty of the other types of assh0le who have their own minimum standards of DPS regardless of whether the job is getting done - then help your fellow player out. Offer some advice on the best skills to use, gear setup, rotation, etc. If anyone can’t take a bit of constructive criticism you’ve got the right to walk away.

I had plenty of advice from guild mates when I started playing vet content. That helped me better understand the mechanics of the game and improve my sustain and damage. It was good to try new things, and I’m grateful as it gave me a new lease of life in the game.

witchdoctor · December 2017

I normally just roll with it, or quit if its too bad. People are rarely going to listen in a dungeon. Just not worth it. But its no excuse to be a jerk, either.

I did lose my cool last night though. In my last group for the event, Wayrest 1.

I was on a level 27 (CP 518+) healer
There was a CP 110+ 'tank' who just heavy attacked DW and rummaged in his inventory
There was a mid-30s NB who loved to be in werewolf and had a pathological need to kill every skeever in the dungeon
There was a mid-30s Sorc who seemed to be doing just fine, but DC'd before the end

The final fight turned out to be me and the 'tank.' According to CM, the fight took just short of 10 minutes, and I did 70% of the damage and 95% of the healing.

I ... said words at the end of that fight.

TheShadowScout · December 2017

ThePrinceOfBargains wrote: »

On Normal, role with it.
On Veteran, leave.

^This!^

On veteran, people ought to know what they are doing. if they don't... fu... uhm, forget about them.

On normal though... just swallow down your vexation, maybe offer some kind words of advice, and then talk about it back at your guildhall, vent about how noobish those newbies were or something, and how valorous you carried them through the dungeon, etc...

Voxicity · December 2017

I just carry them, but I'll complain to my wife about it like it's the end of the world