Should you tell a PUG their DPS just sucks? Or just roll with it?

josiahva

Last night I PUGed BC1 on my pure tank(why I didnt use my DPS/Tank hybrid I dont know). But I was doing 20% of group damage using only light/heavy attacks and puncture and caltrops as my only damage...it was so bad halfway through the dungeon I swapped to DPS gear and told them I wasnt going to bother tanking till last boss. At that point I was doing 65% of group damage...which is sad considering I am able to pull maybe 20k DPS single target with my Tank wearing DPS gear. I never told them their DPS was too low, I just did something about it

Shawn_PT

... then there's the tank that glitches the boss into the wall and then complains DPS is low. Wonder why.

Jamini

Normals: I can solo them on basically any of my characters (Actually, I will do this for *** and giggles at level 3 with dropped gear only for fun.) . I don't care what my comp is (but if someone tries to play hooky as a tank without ANY tauntts, I'll be sure to votekick them before doing the dungeon with three. It is the principal of the thing, and I'm not carrying a guy who cheats to get quick groups)

DLC or Vet: I can carry the group on all of my characters, as long as the group tank knows how to taunt. (If I'm on my tank, nothing else matters. I'll carry them through if the run takes two hours. Virtually nothing in the game has an enrage timer)

Vet DLC: I will politely tell the group that they aren't ready for this content yet and suggest that they re-queue.

josiahva

Jamini wrote: »

Normals: I can solo them on basically any of my characters (Actually, I will do this for *** and giggles at level 3 with dropped gear only for fun.) . I don't care what my comp is (but if someone tries to play hooky as a tank without ANY tauntts, I'll be sure to votekick them before doing the dungeon with three. It is the principal of the thing, and I'm not carrying a guy who cheats to get quick groups)

DLC or Vet: I can carry the group on all of my characters, as long as the group tank knows how to taunt. (If I'm on my tank, nothing else matters. I'll carry them through if the run takes two hours. Virtually nothing in the game has an enrage timer)

Vet DLC: I will politely tell the group that they aren't ready for this content yet and suggest that they re-queue.

So you are ok with DPS or healers not doing their jobs, but its ok to vote-kick a tank who doesn't do theirs? A little hypocritical don't you think? Its quite simple for me, I expect everyone to do their role, but I wont vote to kick them most times unless its vet DLC where its sometimes impossible unless everyone does their job.

Dapper Dinosaur

I'm on console, so I don't even have access to combat metrics, but even then I'm always very....forward about what I notice. The very first time I see a tank running a boss all over the place instead of parking it in our dots (and I do know when this happens and when a boss is doing an untauntable cycle, so don't even try to contest me on that), I will ask them to stop exactly once, and then I will initiate a votekick if he doesn't shape up so we can get a tank that actually knows the very first thing you learn about tanking.

Similarly, if I see we're taking 20 minutes to kill a boss that should take 5, I'm going to either initiate a votekick on whoever is responsible, or I will flat-out leave if it is multiple people and I don't foresee an easy group transition.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

It’s all about how you say it.

If you’re like “hey your DPS is trash and you’re trash, you should be ashamed!” Then yeah, don’t do that.

But if you mention it as constructive criticism and try to give pointers it’s all good. If they still get butt hurt it’s on them not you.

jssriot

1) Don't tell other players how to play unless they ask for your help

2) You're not the best player in this game, so hush

3) if you don't like grouping with random people, don't. Use you obviously awesome people skills to make friends and group with them only. Believe me, the rest of us won't mind at all.

4) if it's actually problem--and it's not just you whining--and since you already think you're so damn good anyhow, prove it by stepping up and helping out the group.

95% of the time, if dps is slow, the best thing to do if step up and help. A lot of les- skilled players learn just by being shown how to do mechanics and prioritize as dps. I've gotten through many, many dungeons with slow dps. It's really not that big of deal most of the time, if you yourself are a competent player and can accurately assess the problem and know what needs to be done. If you're so good, you wouldn't be in a group without skills or gear that helps the group out, like caltrops, combar prayer, ele drain or weakening enchants. So the dungeon will take longer and you may need to work a little harder--whatever. No need to be a jerk about it.

The 5% when it is problem, like you can't get a boss down fast enough and you get overrun with adds or your healer can't keep up their magicka, that's a time to say, "Hey, this isn't working. We can't burn this boss down fast enough and we're getting nowhere." You don't need to blame anyone specifically. Disband, take a break, and queue up again. Absolutely nothing positive for you or anyone else results from bratty fingerpointing.

thomas1970b16_ESO

Just say ingen they suck probably won't help. Giving them constructive advice would. Other wiser Carrey or quite group.

LordSemaj

Saying they suck at all probably is going to get you drama and an ignore list addition.

Does their DPS inhale air quickly? Does it orally pleasure you? If not, then there's no reason to say it sucks. Their DPS is low.

LeagueTroll

radiostar wrote: »

Just wondering if that is too cruel, or is that actually helping them out?

Seems everyone has no problem telling the Heals they are not up to snuff, right? "Blame the Healer."

What if DPS just can't get the job done and you're spamming heals like a fool?

Quit, and say "It's probably me, replace me with a more powerful Heals"? Or say "We can't complete this boss because your DPS is not breaking him/her down fast enough"?

Which is preferred etiquette?

Why even bother carry lazy garbage players. Tell them “U r trash” right away.

LeagueTroll

agegarton wrote: »

Anyone who “just leaves” is an assh0le who shouldn’t be playing grown up social games.

If it really is an issue and the job isn’t getting done - and let’s be honest, there are plenty of the other types of assh0le who have their own minimum standards of DPS regardless of whether the job is getting done - then help your fellow player out. Offer some advice on the best skills to use, gear setup, rotation, etc. If anyone can’t take a bit of constructive criticism you’ve got the right to walk away.

I had plenty of advice from guild mates when I started playing vet content. That helped me better understand the mechanics of the game and improve my sustain and damage. It was good to try new things, and I’m grateful as it gave me a new lease of life in the game.

No one has the responsibility to carry trash tier dps in vet anything. This is not a social aid program from the gov.

Magdalina

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

I remember reading a post a couple months ago where someone was complaining about a solo player coming into someones group Molag bal run in imperial sewers and just killed Bal right away, the group which was a healer, tank, dps team were mad that the guy just took their kill. My question is, if theres a way you can build a character that can do that by itself, then why bother with the healer, tank, dps catagories?
Why doesnt everyone just make characters like that guy? And you could still group, its just that it wouldnt be mandatory to depend on anyone else to do something for you.

The reason why these threads are so abundant right now is the recent event which required you to do a random dungeon in order to get a reward. A lot of people can solo normal dungeons and even some vets, but in order to get random dungeon dungeon reward you have to use groupfinder and get full group. You can do a random with full pre-made as well but given a lot of people were running those dungeons on 5+ toons making a pre-made every time would be pretty tiresome so there was a lot of pugging - even by those who normally don't pug.

Also it's pretty damn challenging to solo Molag Bal in the Sewers(last I checked, at least). It's absolutely possible but there're really not that many people who can pull that off and it comes down to skill a lot more than it comes down to gear.

@Vaoh for example has soloed almost all vet dungeons, including some DLC ones, but that doesn't mean anyone can easily repeat that

Jamini

josiahva wrote: »

So you are ok with DPS or healers not doing their jobs, but its ok to vote-kick a tank who doesn't do theirs? A little hypocritical don't you think? Its quite simple for me, I expect everyone to do their role, but I wont vote to kick them most times unless its vet DLC where its sometimes impossible unless everyone does their job.

Everyone does DPS. A weak DPS is almost always a newbie that needs to be taught how to actually be competent. They deserve to be carried and taught how to play.

I should amend, if a healer has ZERO heals, I'll ask them to at least equip springs/mutagen/BoL/Matriarch. It's very rare for me to run into a healer that isn't at least doing the bare minimum of their job. A poor healer can be taught how to heal during or after a dungeon. Plus most of my characters have either self-heals (so I'll just solo the normal) or decent group heals (vigor/funnel on my DK and NB tanks, and multiple armor sets for stamina healing on my warden DPS)

Tanks are the most in-demand class, and the fastest queue. If someone is cheating to get to the front of a queue, they will roll tank. All a tank needs to succeed in most groups is a single taunt (Inner Fire, Puncture, or Ice staff heavies). If they CBA to slot that, they deserve to be booted. If the tank is just weak, but at least is trying to taunt, I'll teach them.

I also main tank, so I have a higher standard for them than anyone else.

TL:DR - Tank main who is serious about it won't accept people trying to cheat in his role.

P.S. I don't care if you are a magsorc tanking with a frost staff, shields, and inner fire. As long as you have a taunt I'll give it a fair go.

Morvane

radiostar wrote: »

Just wondering if that is too cruel, or is that actually helping them out?

Seems everyone has no problem telling the Heals they are not up to snuff, right? "Blame the Healer."

What if DPS just can't get the job done and you're spamming heals like a fool?

Quit, and say "It's probably me, replace me with a more powerful Heals"? Or say "We can't complete this boss because your DPS is not breaking him/her down fast enough"?

Which is preferred etiquette?

Never kick em, bro. Let you punish yourself with your own tolerance

Savos_Saren

Sadly, I’ve run PUG dungeons with SnB “dps” players, light attack spamming bow users, and healers that stand around unless they need to throw out a random heal.

I figure these guys were probably “Skyreach babies” (ie- people who paid others to power level them... and they have no actual clue how to play)

NyassaV

If you don't tell them they won't try to get better

LittlePinkDot

Magdalina wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

I remember reading a post a couple months ago where someone was complaining about a solo player coming into someones group Molag bal run in imperial sewers and just killed Bal right away, the group which was a healer, tank, dps team were mad that the guy just took their kill. My question is, if theres a way you can build a character that can do that by itself, then why bother with the healer, tank, dps catagories?
Why doesnt everyone just make characters like that guy? And you could still group, its just that it wouldnt be mandatory to depend on anyone else to do something for you.

The reason why these threads are so abundant right now is the recent event which required you to do a random dungeon in order to get a reward. A lot of people can solo normal dungeons and even some vets, but in order to get random dungeon dungeon reward you have to use groupfinder and get full group. You can do a random with full pre-made as well but given a lot of people were running those dungeons on 5+ toons making a pre-made every time would be pretty tiresome so there was a lot of pugging - even by those who normally don't pug.

Also it's pretty damn challenging to solo Molag Bal in the Sewers(last I checked, at least). It's absolutely possible but there're really not that many people who can pull that off and it comes down to skill a lot more than it comes down to gear.

@Vaoh for example has soloed almost all vet dungeons, including some DLC ones, but that doesn't mean anyone can easily repeat that

I heard about that reward thing for dungeons. Hit group finder for first time, saw that I had to select either healer, tank or DPS, then immediately quit group finder and went back to questing. There isnt a reward big enough to get me to do that. Honestly I hate working with people, And I cant stand depending on other people. In game and in real life.
People will only ever either let you down or get in your way.

Morvane

jaburns wrote: »

Sadly, I’ve run PUG dungeons with SnB “dps” players, light attack spamming bow users, and healers that stand around unless they need to throw out a random heal.

I figure these guys were probably “Skyreach babies” (ie- people who paid others to power level them... and they have no actual clue how to play)

Skyreach babies arent new players they have money for 150% exp potions

Magdalina

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

I remember reading a post a couple months ago where someone was complaining about a solo player coming into someones group Molag bal run in imperial sewers and just killed Bal right away, the group which was a healer, tank, dps team were mad that the guy just took their kill. My question is, if theres a way you can build a character that can do that by itself, then why bother with the healer, tank, dps catagories?
Why doesnt everyone just make characters like that guy? And you could still group, its just that it wouldnt be mandatory to depend on anyone else to do something for you.

The reason why these threads are so abundant right now is the recent event which required you to do a random dungeon in order to get a reward. A lot of people can solo normal dungeons and even some vets, but in order to get random dungeon dungeon reward you have to use groupfinder and get full group. You can do a random with full pre-made as well but given a lot of people were running those dungeons on 5+ toons making a pre-made every time would be pretty tiresome so there was a lot of pugging - even by those who normally don't pug.

Also it's pretty damn challenging to solo Molag Bal in the Sewers(last I checked, at least). It's absolutely possible but there're really not that many people who can pull that off and it comes down to skill a lot more than it comes down to gear.

@Vaoh for example has soloed almost all vet dungeons, including some DLC ones, but that doesn't mean anyone can easily repeat that

I heard about that reward thing for dungeons. Hit group finder for first time, saw that I had to select either healer, tank or DPS, then immediately quit group finder and went back to questing. There isnt a reward big enough to get me to do that. Honestly I hate working with people, And I cant stand depending on other people. In game and in real life.
People will only ever either let you down or get in your way.

Haha well it's not always that bad. I used to be very cautious when I'd just started the game but now I can say that the most fun I've had in this game has absolutely been in group content Depending on other people has both bad and good sides. Bad is, well, they can indeed let you down, but good is there's just such a wide variety of fun things you cannot do without it! It helps if you have (a guild of) like minded people to run things together.

Alternatively if you'd prefer to never ever group at all you can solo most normal dungeons with just a little preparation and knowledge.

SugaComa

You should definitely tell them in a constructive manner

I can't get high damage from my rotation due to old hands but my stats should get me better damage than I give

I can get through most content with a decent team / group that doesn't mean I get carried ...

For me if the team works well and puts in the effort I'm fine taking a little longer to complete
If I'm not performing to the high elite standards then by all means talk to to me ... But also understand my situation so be nice

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

You can tell DPS is bad from the very first trash pulls. If it takes minutes to clear a couple and you are in a veteran, that's a problem, mainly because many have DPS races ahead. I usually tell them. Something easy such as DPS is really low for a veteran or before tomorrow, please, then I leave.

Really, I know lots of DDs who thinks they do great and when they first try a test against the dummy they can't believe they don't go beyond 9K. People should understand they should not do some content with random people if they can't do it. It's a waste of everybody's time. While you can do what you want with your own, you should respect others.

On my DD I am still training skill and rotations. I hit 20k without any cheat (drain , ...) nor potion. There is some content I avoid because I still do not feel comfortable for it.

HighKinlady

Had this situation during the event . Had one dps (cp 250ish) in Normal FG2 . His dps was low but I was on my 690 dps and declined to kick him . Once we got to the part where you have to run all the way back to the start he had no clue where to go , which was a pretty obvious indication that he wasn’t very familiar with this particular dungeon . Ran back and showed him (meanwhile the healer left because they didn’t want to wait). With a few helpful hints he was able to help out a little more on the final boss. You never know , it may just be someone who’s not very familiar with mechanics.

However , if it’s on vet that’s a whole new ball game.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

HighKinlady wrote: »

You never know , it may just be someone who’s not very familiar with mechanics.
However , if it’s on vet that’s a whole new ball game.

You can tell. There is a chat. Actually two: one voice, one text. Even if yes that means interacting with human beings.

Before the limits were introduced, I helped a level 12, 17 and 22 in nWGT. My healer was able to keep everyone alive despite the errors. I was able to show them the mechanics. We finished in some 40 minutes. It was fun. But they told at the very beginning they had no idea. Instead of leaving, I had no problem staying and helping.

Girl_Number8

radiostar wrote: »

Just wondering if that is too cruel, or is that actually helping them out?

Seems everyone has no problem telling the Heals they are not up to snuff, right? "Blame the Healer."

What if DPS just can't get the job done and you're spamming heals like a fool?

Quit, and say "It's probably me, replace me with a more powerful Heals"? Or say "We can't complete this boss because your DPS is not breaking him/her down fast enough"?

Which is preferred etiquette?

That would be manners. Wisdom would be also realizing that if you want to tell someone they suck, then you are the problem. If you know the game and are good at it help other players to learn it. It will make you feel all warm and cuddly inside.

You can still leave the dungeon or kick them. Though I try to help it usually works.

Dapper Dinosaur

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

radiostar wrote: »

Just wondering if that is too cruel, or is that actually helping them out?

Seems everyone has no problem telling the Heals they are not up to snuff, right? "Blame the Healer."

What if DPS just can't get the job done and you're spamming heals like a fool?

Quit, and say "It's probably me, replace me with a more powerful Heals"? Or say "We can't complete this boss because your DPS is not breaking him/her down fast enough"?

Which is preferred etiquette?

That would be manners. Wisdom would be also realizing that if you want to tell someone they suck, then you are the problem. If you know the game and are good at it help other players to learn it. It will make you feel all warm and cuddly inside.

You're acting like the only way to inform someone they're terrible at their role is to be extremely rude. The TC literally gave an example of stating the truth as politely as the situation permits.

Yvarhna

Honestly? I would rather someone tell me where I could improve if I'm not doing so well. For doing solo stuff, sure, you can play as you please, but when you group up with others, especially at higher difficulties, you need to be able to pull your own weight and not rely on being carried.

HighKinlady

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

You can tell. There is a chat. Actually two: one voice, one text. Even if yes that means interacting with human beings

I have yet to run across a player in a normal dungeon who writes in chat (or voice for that matter ) that they don’t know what they are doing (probably because they’re worried they’ll get the boot, we all know how lovely some of these PUG groups can be towards people like that )

Inarre

A lot of people think you should ALWAYS say something but i think it depends.

I was playing my Nb in the pve event. pvp bomb build night blade with no passives and no other gear (oh yeah, old vicious death and clever alchemist in pve lol) and someone started asking me what sets I was using.

Dude I'm not looking for build advice when I'm on REALLY bad dps toons during an event ;( I think a lot of people running normal dungeons during an event KNOW they are bad if they are running normals lol. I queued with my husband so he could carry me for a reason. XD

kringled_1

Most of the time, when tanking and we have really low group dps, the dps gives up and leaves the dungeon before I do. I've had others in dungeons/trials tell/ask me to do something as tank, which is totally fine until it doesn't work. I'm still ticked off at the guy who took the time on nSO last week to type in chat 'bad tank' after I died on the Serpent. (only my second run ever there). That doesn't give me anything to work with, just someone happy to try to build themselves up by running everyone else down.

Runefang

Inarre wrote: »

A lot of people think you should ALWAYS say something but i think it depends.

I was playing my Nb in the pve event. pvp bomb build night blade with no passives and no other gear (oh yeah, old vicious death and clever alchemist in pve lol) and someone started asking me what sets I was using.

Dude I'm not looking for build advice when I'm on REALLY bad dps toons during an event ;( I think a lot of people running normal dungeons during an event KNOW they are bad if they are running normals lol. I queued with my husband so he could carry me for a reason. XD

That's when you say "I'm a typical wife, relying on my husband to do the heavy lifting".

Then your husband says "...."

And you all have a laugh.

I am joking by the way