Our tank was fairly weak... I spent most of the time trying to avoid all the boss atronachs, because they chased ME instead of HIM... but it wouldn't really have mattered (and I'm reluctant to lay blame on other players).

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

I realize the light armour would provide better dps, but I prefer to have better survivability, plus I wanted the benefits of those sets (eg. the Hunger summon in the Defiler set). This is mainly because I solo 99% of the time, and need to be better protected than light armour provides.

But... again, if I have to have specific equipment, and be part of a specific group, using specific powers, and only doing the mission the one specific way, or I'm guaranteed to fail... then I'm not interested in doing it. That's why I don't do raids in any game I've ever played.

Also, as I said earlier, I manage pretty well under most circumstances. So, I'm getting the sense from the comments here that it's just a matter of it having been THAT particular dungeon. I'll try something else and see what happens.

You are better off using heavy armor then if you want survivability and don't want to use light/ward. At least heavy armor provides some aid to a magic user. Nothing in the medium armor passives assist a magic user. At the very least make sure that you have 5 heavy on your body and use the defiler set as weapons/jewelry and one body piece only.

Maybe you want to look into crafted sets. You can at least craft a heavy armor type set in light armor and provide better DPSbut still manage to improve survivability. Something like Fortified Brass or Song of Lamae or Allesia's Bulwark. Or you can crafted a magic benefiting set in heavy armor, like Julianos or Seducer or Magnus or Kagrenac's Hope.

But really, it isn't surprising that it took 6 hours in Bloodroot if you are running heavy and medium as a magic DPS.

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

Our tank was fairly weak... I spent most of the time trying to avoid all the boss atronachs, because they chased ME instead of HIM... but it wouldn't really have mattered (and I'm reluctant to lay blame on other players).

Found your problem in that dungeon. It wasn't the dungeon being too difficult. It was a tank who did not know how to taunt and hold aggro. And yes, it would have made a huge difference in how the run went and ended.

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

I realize the light armour would provide better dps, but I prefer to have better survivability, plus I wanted the benefits of those sets (eg. the Hunger summon in the Defiler set). This is mainly because I solo 99% of the time, and need to be better protected than light armour provides.

But... again, if I have to have specific equipment, and be part of a specific group, using specific powers, and only doing the mission the one specific way, or I'm guaranteed to fail... then I'm not interested in doing it. That's why I don't do raids in any game I've ever played.

Also, as I said earlier, I manage pretty well under most circumstances. So, I'm getting the sense from the comments here that it's just a matter of it having been THAT particular dungeon. I'll try something else and see what happens.

You don't need to be in a specific build for more lower tier content (such as normals). That being said, the Defiler set is a stamina based set, and will do damage based on your stamina and weapon damage. You can wear heavy armor, but I'd like to point out that light armor actually gives you tons of spell resist through the Spell Warding passive. Also, 5 pieces of light armor will allow you to unlock a second shield, and combining both the sorcerer shield and the light armor shield will make you more tanky than any heavy armor could as a DPS. It will also give you better resource management.

You don't want to do homework on the game, and I understand that, but at the same time there's nothing wrong with utilizing tools and information.

The content is not too hard, please do not ask for content to be nerfed down, there are people who quite enjoy it as is.

If anything, this thread exposes the massive disconnect between two camps. The holier-than-thou people who reach max CP cap a long time ago, have learn their rotations and guear, and have completely forgotten what it was like to die to overland content. And the other is (I'm guessing), the vast majority of players who even if they have max CP, dish out around 6k DPS.

There is a problem when 10% of the players tell the other 90% that they're doing it wrong.

The disconnect is so high, that someone on the forums was saying that 50% of the ESO population has completed vMA. Lol!! For perspective, on PS4 it's 0.6% .

This is what happens when you're in a bubble, talking only to people who share your experience. You begin to think that your bubble is the "normal", without realizing that it's possible that you're the outlier.

mo

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

Our tank was fairly weak... I spent most of the time trying to avoid all the boss atronachs, because they chased ME instead of HIM... but it wouldn't really have mattered (and I'm reluctant to lay blame on other players).

The “L2P crowd” are the first to lay blame and point fingers when facing adversity. (They usually are the first to throw a hissy fit and leave)

Sounds like your group was pretty bad overall. As someone else mentioned, I would ditch that medium armor ASAP. Go light for a Mag Sorc. You really probably don’t even need a shield. I never use one even in Vet Dungeons.

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

I realize the light armour would provide better dps, but I prefer to have better survivability, plus I wanted the benefits of those sets (eg. the Hunger summon in the Defiler set). This is mainly because I solo 99% of the time, and need to be better protected than light armour provides.

But... again, if I have to have specific equipment, and be part of a specific group, using specific powers, and only doing the mission the one specific way, or I'm guaranteed to fail... then I'm not interested in doing it. That's why I don't do raids in any game I've ever played.

Also, as I said earlier, I manage pretty well under most circumstances. So, I'm getting the sense from the comments here that it's just a matter of it having been THAT particular dungeon. I'll try something else and see what happens.

From your other comment about research and your vague description of your build, I can tell you're just one of those ultra-casuals that doesn't even want to put in any effort to get better even in games you really like. If you've EVER actually tried light armor with a PROPER build that has one heal/shield on it, you would know that the damage increase is enormous for a magicka build and you're not even that much squishier. Going full light just makes it a little more punishing when you're not paying attention to barebones game mechanics.

Maybe instead of doing what you're doing, for better luck you should try tanking instead. Literally all you have to do to tank most dungeons is wear heavy armor tank sets (lunar bastion, fortified brass is my combo), taunt the boss, stand still, and use shields, heals, and blocking to stay standing. Tanking is by far the easiest role in the game and it sounds to me like you should stop trying to DPS if you're not willing to put in even a tiny fraction of the work required to do so.

You're unwilling to do any research for your class and role, you're unwilling to even attempt to use the gear you KNOW you're supposed to be wearing, and you want the entire game's group content (literally the only reason to play PVE at all) to be nerfed around worthless players like you? How about instead of that, you start taking some pride in yourself and work to get better?

I'm sure some trial expert will correct me if I'm wrong, but this game has no one shot mechanics that can't be countered by the player with either a dodge, a block or an interrupt.

There are mechanics in both trials and a couple dungeons that will one-shot either one player or the entire group that cannot simply be dodge-rolled or blocked. Nerieneth's ebony blade channel and fungal grotto II's shadow-prison execution move cannot be blocked or avoided by the target player, and they have to depend on their teammates to break the attack before it finishes. Maw of Lorkaj and Aetherian Archive both have instant group-wiping attacks if your group does not handle a task (maw's maze) or do enough damage (archive).

Yes, this...all of this. I remember running my first trial with my current guild. Normal HRC. It was a complete eye opener for me. I realized I didn't know anything about the game and that I had just been skating by any sort of hard mechanics and doing content that was hardly near end game. After that, I looked up guides, watched videos, chatted with theory crafters, etc. It took a little bit of time but now I'm finishing vMA, vDSA, and vet trials. If you don't want to put in the time to improve, that's fine. But to claim that the system is broken because it's not to your level of satisfaction or experience is a little bit narrow-sighted.

Apache_Kid wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

If anything, this thread exposes the massive disconnect between two camps. The holier-than-thou people who reach max CP cap a long time ago, have learn their rotations and guear, and have completely forgotten what it was like to die to overland content. And the other is (I'm guessing), the vast majority of players who even if they have max CP, dish out around 6k DPS.

There is a problem when 10% of the players tell the other 90% that they're doing it wrong.

The disconnect is so high, that someone on the forums was saying that 50% of the ESO population has completed vMA. Lol!! For perspective, on PS4 it's 0.6% .

This is what happens when you're in a bubble, talking only to people who share your experience. You begin to think that your bubble is the "normal", without realizing that it's possible that you're the outlier.

You're comparing bloodroot on normal to not being able to beat vMA. Those 2 contents are miles apart. Yeah there's a large gulf between the best and worst players but that's any game. The difference is those people who don't have good gear, who aren't using the right skills, are the ones who keep queuing into group content and want a carry. If you're dying to overland content don't queue for the harder content until you're a better player. I have no issue with players being terrible, rather I have an issue with those terrible players queueing up for group content and wasting the time of 3 other strangers because they are using destruction staves in heavy armor spamming light attacks and executes when boss is near full-health.

It's not hard at all to be semi-competent at this game while still low level. It just requires you to put in a little effort doing searches and reading on the internet. It's just that simple. There is no excuse.

I would say that the problem is ZOS in this case, not the so-called terrible players. It's an event that had a chance to award metric crap-tons of loot. Of course people are going to play that content. They wanted the horsies.

He wasn't really comparing those two things at all. Like, at all. He was using an example to show how the "elite" crowd probably has no idea how 90% of the players actually play the game. There are people who fast-travel everywhere and don't even realize it costs them gold. There are people who actually buy weapons from the vendors. There's a lot of people who have no idea how guild traders work. I bet a ton of players have never read this forum. Only people who are mostly interacting with good players who do the harder content could think 50% of players have completed VMA. That is the bubble.

The game itself doesn't really explain much of anything about how to play the game. How would a player who just plays the game have any idea at all the jump in difficulty from open world to group content? How would a player know what zone to farm for good gear in? There are resources out there, but it's not even slightly a problem with the game that you need to go outside of the game to get this information?

You probably only interact with people who know what they are doing. You only play the "best" ways. Of course you have no idea what the game is like outside of your well-read and practiced group. Sit in the same room as a new player picks up the game and starts to run around. Watch what they do. That is probably the typical game experience for a majority of the players. And I'm sure it's not yours.

newtinmpls wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I did normal Bloodroot Forge the other day for the first time because of the event. I think it really requires you to know the mechanics of the bosses.

And unless you are lucky and figure it out, or someone happens to do the perfect teaching video and you happen to see it, you are out of luck.

Very frustrating.

I will admit my group did struggle with Bloodroot forge (group of friends just plopping together sets of 4 peeps); it was Cradle of Shadows we couldn't finish. That "statue hanging upside down" room - obviously there were mechanics, but we just couldn't figure it out - couldn't tell what to do to survive it.

@newtinmpls
The statue room mechanics(I believe there should be vids online but here's the gist of it):

Boss will occasionally go invulnerable - all orange and shiny - and spawn ads around the room. You need to either kill the ads or run the boss into them/them into boss(if your tanks is a DK, he can just chain the ads to the boss but make sure they actually collide). If you kill them away from the boss they will leave a red orb in their place - pick it up, it's like you gotta give their essence back to the boss to make him vulnerable again.

He has a special attack he will do on timer(ergo the higher your group's dps, the less of these you will see) - he will jump all players in order, with the one he has agro on last, and then he will chain that last player down. You need to bash the ads that will be holding the chains because he will do a heavy attack on that person and Idk about normal but on vet it's about 70k if unblocked(that in full heavy). You need to bash the ads to free the person(normally tank) so they can dodge/block it. If you aren't the tank and you get chained, you will want to dodge it rather than block probably.

Aside from that he just does pretty standard aoe's and heavy attack - don't stand in red and you should be fine the orb in the middle does some waves of pain too, try to avoid those. The general colour of the room makes it a bit hard to see red sometimes so you may want to change the cues' colour or just pay very close attention to not end up standing in red without noticing.

The last boss mechanics' are heaps more fun though I can explain them if you want or take you in there sometimes if you're on PC.

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Everyone that's defending the inexperienced players is just conveniently ignoring the fact that google is a thing.

Literally just about everyone has a smartphone these days that is capable of browsing the web. If something is giving these players problems, a simple "I am going to google this dungeon" line in text chat and then a 5-minute skim-read would solve any issues with them not knowing the mechanics.

Hell, anyone that has the ability to think for themselves SHOULD be looking up dungeon/trial mechanics before they even start looking for their first run of them. Just half an hour or less of research will potentially save the user HOURS of getting slaughtered to mechanics they haven't learned yet in dungeons.

It's a simple matter of willful ignorance and laziness.

We shouldn't have to do homework to play the game. Doing that should be HELPFUL, but never required.

Also, I've always said there should be NO oneshot mechanics in any game. It completely removes the healer from the game, because he can't heal damage that hasn't been done, and he can't heal damage that kills you in one shot. But, that's just me.

Again, I appreciate the lack of flames and L2P commentary. Perhaps I will give it another go.

As for info... my character uses a mix of Medium and Heavy armour, from the Defiler set and the Warrior Poet. Flame staff, with Daedric Shield, Flame Wall, Lightning Strike, and Scamp and Twilight. I have a restoration staff on the second bar, so I can chip in extra healing as needed. I believe I'm around 190cp right now, I'll have to look to see.

You do not NEED to do homework to play the game. When these dungeons(and others) come out, people complete them without having a clue about mechanics and figuring everything out on the way - on vet level too. It does usually involve a lot of trial and error though. If you don't want trial and error(and I mean no offence but to spend that long wiping there you must have made a lot of errors, and not just you but the others in the group too), then you may want to "do homework" These very people post videos and guides so that others who don't want to wipe for X hours/days to figure out the mechanics don't have to do that.

Far as one shot mechanics go, one shot in ESO generally means one(or several) of the following things:
1)your tank lost agro(ergo you got hit by an attack you were never supposed to take as a squishy dps)
2)you are way too squishy(for instance if you have <15k health you are likely to die a lot if you're unfamiliar with dungeons. ~18k is the common sweet spot for vet dungeons)
3)you did not avoid the attack(most attacks, with some exceptions, are dodgeable/blockable)
4)you/your group failed to do a mechanic that was supposed to stop the attack(for example some bosses have certain enrage mechanics and if your dps is too low they will oneshot everyone including the tank after a while. Others you just gotta bash, etc)
None of these situations are supposed to be mitigated by the healer because ideally none of these situations should even happen. All of this is AVOIDABLE damage. There's only maybe a couple occasions in the whole game where you might do all you can and still die to the damage you legit could not avoid, but most of these are just bad luck and none of these happen in normal instances.

Your build is also a jumble of everything that ends up being effective at nothing. That's okay if you're just in it for cool looks but if you want to know why you're dying/improve your performance(for example, for dungeons ) you'll have to sort it out a bit. Hybrids do not work well in ESO. Your stam costing skills get buffed by your max stamina, weapon damage, weapon crit and physical penetration. Your magicka costing skills get buffed by your max magicka, spell damage, spell crit and spell penetration. Shields are an exceptions and are only affected by max magicka(aside from health % one obviously). Defiler is a stam set which buffs weapon damage and weapon crit. Medium armor also buffs weapon damage and stamina regeneration. Meanwhile, none of the skills you listed profit from any of those. You said you had a resto staff - and again its heals won't profit from your buffed weapon damage and crit. If you want to be more effective, you'll have to choose:

1)go 5-7 pieces light armor(see sets like Julianos, Seducer, etc) and actually be a magicka sorc, be it healer or dps. Use shield(s) for protection. Your Hardened Ward alone(the daedric shield) should be about 18k, that's what my crafted gear using ~170 cp EU sorc has atm. Very few things in normal dungeons will hit you for more than 18k.
2)go 5-7 pieces medium armor(see sets like Hunding's Rage) and actually be a stam sorc. Swap your weapon for bow/dual wield/2h and change to stamina skills for damage. As a sorc you will have great self heals from Surge. Use Lightning form for extra sturdiness.
3)go 5-7 pieces heavy armor(I'm actually not sure what good crafted sets are for tanks atm...Hist Bark?) and actually be sturdy without those flimsy shields. Be a tank. Grab sword&board, slot a taunt, slot Encase for keeping trash groups in place and off you go.

You don't need cookie cutter builds for normal(nor even vet mostly) dungeons but you still need to understand how the game works and why some things may not work well in certain scenarios. If you absolutely want to wear Defiler as a double staff pet sorc then by all means do it but be aware that you will be severely underperforming in pretty much any scenario, especially group one.

Apache_Kid wrote: »

duendology wrote: »

@Apache_Kid



While I do agree about running some preliminary research and do some "googling" on dungeoning before entering group runs I must point out it does not guarantee that running a dungeon for the first time is going to be a piece of cake for a first time "in dungeon" player, you realise. If you're new to dungeons:
1. You're not THAT player who "committed" that helpful video on how to beat a boss
2. I can bet you can't mimic someone's moves and general "agility" in battle
3. Your fight style is probably different to that of the "helpful" player
4. You can't foresee how you'll act in the heat of the battle with no EMPIRICAL experience WHATSOEVER
5. In videos it all seems a smooth run because the players are experienced so it all looks almost effortless. but it can be misleading.

So, my question to you would be: do you think that if an inexperienced player watches a video one or two times, or read about it, will make him or her automatically efficient during his/her first run?

On the other hand,
I see lots of new players who want quick formulas to be best of the best of the best of the best the moment they hit 50 (or even lower) and seek to hunt for super-hyper gear. And it's silly because it's obvious practise and familiarizing yourself with your own skill bars/rotation and game mechanics, and practising those, make you better. if you're playing for "prizes" and top 1 place on leaderboards, that is..

Look all I ask is that people pull 15k DPS which is ridiculously easy to replicate from a video. I'm asking that people know how to taunt a boss, Also ridiculously easy to replicate from a video. I'm not asking for much. Having a decent set of gear and the right abilities on your bar and reading the tooltips is what I'm asking which can be done with 20 minutes of research. That's not unreasonable. Don't act like it is. So many people in this game are God awful and have 100s of CP, I saw them all during the event. Most didn't want to listen to any advice. It's disgusting and inexcusable.

Actually have to agree. Part of the problem that i've seen is too many people grind and rush straight to endgame, get to like 300cp plus before they ever attempt group content. And they end up without a single clue how to freaking play. This is why as a GM of a casual guild i refuse to carry anyone in skyreach or power level anyone, ESPECIALLY if it's their first character. This is why i tell ALL newbs who join my guild, TAKE YOUR TIME. Rushing is bad.

Not sure if said before, but I would advice you to find a nice Guild with people willing to learn you these dungeons. If you do that, after a while I can guarantee you that you will even learn to enjoy the occasional dungeon run.