Guards are too easy to get away from, how about making those players attack-able?

Integral1900 · December 2017

Why not just instance the whole thing, they have proved time and again that they can hide visuals and effects from one player in an area but not another, just stick in a toggle in.the menu so that I don’t have to put up with yet another helpless citizen getting butchered but the psycho players can still get their jolly’s.

It’s not a matter of can’t, it’s a matter of won’t...

ArchMikem · December 2017

geonsocal wrote: »

only if I can attack you back, once I ditch the guards, and then have my choice of taking your inventory or gold...maybe both

It only takes one burst ganker and your guard to be down enough for that attitude to dissappear real quick.

Beardimus · December 2017

I agree, there needs to be a bounty system in sight of the guards.

Seeing people steal and murder round towns just wrecks the vibe, and you should be able to act. Even if it was just a forced duel or something.

Unsure if your solution is quite right but I concur something better should happen..

makreth · December 2017

aliyavana wrote: »

NO, I came to farm agrees

NO, i need some too please

Korah_Eaglecry · December 2017

DarkWombat wrote: »

I have an idea that when guards are attacking a player, then that player can be attacked by anyone in game. I call it the bounty system. If you got in on the kill, 100 gold, maybe 1000. Once that player dies he cannot be attacked by other players in that manner for 24 hours. A cooldown of sorts to help with potential gold abuse.

Keep in mind this idea is coming from a lifelong Ultima Online PVE SERVER CAREBEAR player. World of Warcraft? PVE server only please, I hate getting ganked.

You see, Elder Scrolls Online, especially in non pvp areas, has what I think is the lowest death penalty in any MMO. Wait 10 seconds and you are back.

But I am sick of seeing people easily escape from guards. Bounty system!!! We have to stop this!

This is not going to end the way you think it will.

Niobium · December 2017

DarkWombat wrote: »

If a lifelong carebear player likes this idea, why would anyone else not like it?

1. Because it's too easily exploitable. As has been shown - get a group of folks together and everyone steal an apple one at a time and then everyone light attack the person, get their 1k gold.. rinse repeat with the next person.

2. Because it's a pain in the a$$ when you accidentally steal already. I was handing in my writs in Vivec just the other day and in the turn in place there's a greatsword (I think that's what it was) leaning up against the crates. Instead of hitting 'E' to open the crate and turn in my writ, I was hovered over the greatsword and stole it. A second later the guard standing RIGHT THERE came running up to me and demanded I pay my fine. Under your system I would have been shot by everyone there and they would have received 1k gold each because I.. what.. bumped my mouse while turning in writs.

3. I suspect you like it because you RP and feel everyone should. Those criminal scum! I am righteously angry about you murdering those pixels and stealing that loot!

TheValar85 · December 2017

guards shuld be killable

altemriel · December 2017

DarkWombat wrote: »

I have an idea that when guards are attacking a player, then that player can be attacked by anyone in game. I call it the bounty system. If you got in on the kill, 100 gold, maybe 1000. Once that player dies he cannot be attacked by other players in that manner for 24 hours. A cooldown of sorts to help with potential gold abuse.

Keep in mind this idea is coming from a lifelong Ultima Online PVE SERVER CAREBEAR player. World of Warcraft? PVE server only please, I hate getting ganked.

You see, Elder Scrolls Online, especially in non pvp areas, has what I think is the lowest death penalty in any MMO. Wait 10 seconds and you are back.

But I am sick of seeing people easily escape from guards. Bounty system!!! We have to stop this!

nope

Aeorath · December 2017

DarkWombat wrote: »

I have an idea that when guards are attacking a player, then that player can be attacked by anyone in game. I call it the bounty system. If you got in on the kill, 100 gold, maybe 1000. Once that player dies he cannot be attacked by other players in that manner for 24 hours. A cooldown of sorts to help with potential gold abuse.

Keep in mind this idea is coming from a lifelong Ultima Online PVE SERVER CAREBEAR player. World of Warcraft? PVE server only please, I hate getting ganked.

You see, Elder Scrolls Online, especially in non pvp areas, has what I think is the lowest death penalty in any MMO. Wait 10 seconds and you are back.

But I am sick of seeing people easily escape from guards. Bounty system!!! We have to stop this!

YOU are sick of people escaping from guards?! IS THAT your PROBLEM? There is already a bounty system in place, thanks for your idea.

So you hate getting ganked but you have an 'idea' which encourages it? Really? Next time when you have to pickpocket NPCs in Elden Root for the Thieves Guild and you're a low level wanna-be thief, it will be sooo much fun when you escape the guards barely, to also have other players gank you?

Neyane · December 2017

Nooooo thanks.

AndyTGD · December 2017

Aaaaand cue the carebear versus ganker arguments.

Eirella · December 2017

I wish

Unfortunately, it's not going to happen.

Everstorm · December 2017

Pickpocketing should be the more logical criminal choice. Atm there is hardly any reason to not kill someone. But just like in RL pickpocketing/stealing should be much more common than robbery with murder.
Blade of Woe takes no skill and just one skill point while to get good at pickpocketing you need to max out Legerdemain.
I don’t support a pvp solution but it is way too easy to get away with murder. When caught murdering or when a npc sees a fresh corpse the place should swarm with guards with lamps in a matter of seconds.

Tasear · December 2017

If they have bounty Hunter passive or maybe apporiate bounty Hunter rank then sure.

Kolache · December 2017

I liked this idea when it was discussed prior to the outlaw system, but there were obvious unanswered questions.

You can't take an entirely PvE activity and make it PvP without the ability to opt-out, but how do you make people actually want to opt-in if their goal is to steal stuff from NPCs? If their goal is just to fight other players they can just duel.

I can imagine a level 5 player looking around realizing he can steal stuff like in other elder scrolls games, getting caught, and having a naked CP690 player just spam CC on him and laugh. That would make me want to subscribe.

I'm not giving up on the concept of world PvP, considering the existing eye-sore of people dueling in the middle of everything as it is (how much worse could it be), but I'd see it more as a factions sort of thing. Though if they can't make people want to do BGs and campaigns enough to fill out the PvP game modes we already have then the last thing we probably need is another one.

JKorr · December 2017

DarkWombat wrote: »

If a lifelong carebear player likes this idea, why would anyone else not like it?

Because it would be open to exploits. Because it would actually harass players who don't want to be instantly targeted for either "stealing" some item accidentally [crafting tables/writ turn in areas have way too much stuff that can be accidentally clicked on] or playing content they paid for. Other reasons I'm not going to type out at this point, but usually show up every time there's a thread like this one.

Uzmati · December 2017

I agree with this. Maybe, in consequence, making the stealing more profitable. I mean, more risk more reward (if u die u lose everything, so...)

TheValar85 · December 2017

No and no and no
I am sick of the guards in this case how about to remove teh whole thiefs guild skill line with the dark brotherhood hm?(sounds stupid right?)
They are depends on eachother basicly.
The guards are usless anyway and tehy are hoplesly overpowered anyway
I say make the Guards killable!
every TES game allowed us to kill guards and get away from the crime this will be a cool stuff too, But that idea what you have came up with is just basicly ruins every aspect of 2 core guilds. so on that matter my answer is NO!!

Bax · December 2017

I was actually thinking of it too, but there should be several restriction:

- certain minimal amount of bounty (so players who accidentally picked up something on plain sight won't get ganked)
- once this minimal bounty is passed other players can duel the guy (send traditional duel request) which will be auto approved
- there should be maximum amount of such duels so the guy won't get ganked and still has at least some chance

NPCs already attack player without approval or anything, so why not players as well? I want to be just as concerned citizen as my fellow NPCs and attack evil guys stealing or killing poor people around. Killing person with bounty could be rewarded with granting the money to the guy who killed him.

Another option is giving higher impact to killing some NPCs. I will tell you short story from TES IV: Oblivion, my first TES game (I played also previous ones because I really liked Oblivion, but this one was my introduction to the series).

I was complete noob only with experience from other RPGs exploring huge Imperial City. Just walking around, checking out stores, talking with store owners, their customers or inhabitants of imperial city which I met outside. Somewhere around my first hour into the game I came to this nice looking store and I thought it would be cool to try out the theft mechanic. So I took few things, but completely unaware of the fact that I should hide myself I realized very soon that people around me are not tolerant towards such crimes I just committed and they started to attack me. I ran around to avoid some damage, but to my surprise, my newly created character took quite some damage from their hits. I was quite shocked by the situation and didn't really know what are the possible solutions. I was like some low life who came to rob the store with a baseball bat expecting that store owner will simply give me the cash, but instead of that he pulls out his shotgun from below his desk. I panicked and killed everyone in that store. My bounty rose up and I had to spend few minutes exploring underwater areas on the edge of Imperial City (very epic experience as well). Surely, I could just ran away. I could reload old save file. Or I could do million other things at that time, but I was new to the game and I simply played as it came (I am not a fan of repeated save-reload game progress till today). Anyway, I didn't really care that much about what I did. It's just game after all and I just explored few new mechanics of it.

I continued playing and somewhere 60-70 hours in the game I finally purchased my first house (or did I got it from quest? not sure now). Anyway, at that point I realized I could get houses in different cities. I saved bunch of golds and decided it would be great to get some living in Imperial city. My character was imperial so obviously I wanted a living in my "home town". I searched through the city, but I could not find the NPC selling house anywhere. I googled for it and I found out the store where NPC should be. I went there, but no seller was inside. At that moment I realized that it was the very same store I raided on my very first hour of playing. I killed the NPC. It was gone. Nobody replaced it, it didn't respawn either. Nobody could sell me the house in imperial city. My action in the beginning of the game affected my whole future.

And this is what I am missing in here. Important NPCs are unkillable. Less important respawn all the time. I would love if at least some NPCs with less important roles or quests become killable, but with consequences that the NPC will not respawn for that player anymore and that by killing such NPC they will lose some quest line or something. Maybe it could open a different quest line for them instead. I loved original series because of impactful decision making with sometimes unexpected results and effects on future events hidden in something what appeared to be meaningless or unimportant. It would be fun if they rework whole crime system to have higher impact on gameplay.

Wreuntzylla · December 2017

The justice system is the worst part of ESO.

To keep it simple, Tamriel doesn't need me, the faction monarchists should just send the average beat cop in a podunk town into Coldharbour....

Niobium wrote: »

DarkWombat wrote: »

If a lifelong carebear player likes this idea, why would anyone else not like it?

1. Because it's too easily exploitable. As has been shown - get a group of folks together and everyone steal an apple one at a time and then everyone light attack the person, get their 1k gold.. rinse repeat with the next person.

2. Because it's a pain in the a$$ when you accidentally steal already. I was handing in my writs in Vivec just the other day and in the turn in place there's a greatsword (I think that's what it was) leaning up against the crates. Instead of hitting 'E' to open the crate and turn in my writ, I was hovered over the greatsword and stole it. A second later the guard standing RIGHT THERE came running up to me and demanded I pay my fine. Under your system I would have been shot by everyone there and they would have received 1k gold each because I.. what.. bumped my mouse while turning in writs.

3. I suspect you like it because you RP and feel everyone should. Those criminal scum! I am righteously angry about you murdering those pixels and stealing that loot!

To me, roleplaying means switching toons depending on what class/build my group needs in PvP. I still despise the justice system.

The developers decided against PvP justice and implemented the pile of dung that exists today.

"While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself."

ArvenAldmeri · December 2017

No. Its already *** pain to complete those thiving achievements etc. Plus they keep putting stuff in game where you need to steal/kill. If you want to kill player go to pvp. There are still players out there who have million gold bounty on them and it must be already pain for them to come to town when they need repair or something and now they would have also players taking their time? No thanks.

TheDarkShadow · December 2017

As a RPer I think people in this thread bring RP up as a reason for this forget 1 first and foremost rule in RP: You don't force your RP upon people.

You concern about NPC being murder? I'm sorry but in that murderer's story you do not exist. It's just him and the NPC. It's the same as a player decided to roleplay as vampire openly in a pub, showing fangs and bullying other RPers out of "our territory". I have the right to ignore that person, as much as I have the right to ignore your dual request because saw me killing/stealing.

I'm sorry the MMO part ruin your "immersion" of the RPG part but if I can tolerant fire, storm and spriggan mounts everywhere then you can pretent like that thief/murderer don't exist. "Immerson" is not a good enough reason.

Bax · December 2017

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

No. Its already *** pain to complete those thiving achievements etc. Plus they keep putting stuff in game where you need to steal/kill. If you want to kill player go to pvp. There are still players out there who have million gold bounty on them and it must be already pain for them to come to town when they need repair or something and now they would have also players taking their time? No thanks.

How is it pain? I rarely get any bounty on me. Obviously if you are trying to do those achievements without any skill points invested in thief guild/dark brotherhood/legerdemain skill trees, you have it harder. You cannot expect to be a good thief or assassin without actually investing some SKILLS in that field.

We are talking about other people being able to attack you only if you got certain bounty on you. Which is super easy to avoid. Current system just motivates you to go and kill/steal carelessly without single point invested in those skill trees and without caring if others see you or not, because there is no real consequences to crime even if noticed.

Bax · December 2017

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

As a RPer I think people in this thread bring RP up as a reason for this forget 1 first and foremost rule in RP: You don't force your RP upon people.

You concern about NPC being murder? I'm sorry but in that murderer's story you do not exist. It's just him and the NPC. It's the same as a player decided to roleplay as vampire openly in a pub, showing fangs and bullying other RPers out of "our territory". I have the right to ignore that person, as much as I have the right to ignore your dual request because saw me killing/stealing.

I'm sorry the MMO part ruin your "immersion" of the RPG part but if I can tolerant fire, storm and spriggan mounts everywhere then you can pretent like that thief/murderer don't exist. "Immerson" is not a good enough reason.

I'm sorry, but your single player experience ruins your "immersion" of MMO part. Did you ever tried LARP? Were you in the middle of fight when suddenly other fellow LARPer came to help your opponent? Did you try to tell him that he does not exist in this story as well?

Did you ever tried pen and paper RPG? There you have to cooperate with other real people too, you cannot simply tell GM that for some action you want to do your comrades stop to exist for a while.

[oops, sorry for double post, thought I'm editing my last comment

]

Smmokkee · December 2017

It would be awesome.

Apparently you arent as carebear as the rest of these softies.

TheDarkShadow · December 2017

Bax wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

As a RPer I think people in this thread bring RP up as a reason for this forget 1 first and foremost rule in RP: You don't force your RP upon people.

You concern about NPC being murder? I'm sorry but in that murderer's story you do not exist. It's just him and the NPC. It's the same as a player decided to roleplay as vampire openly in a pub, showing fangs and bullying other RPers out of "our territory". I have the right to ignore that person, as much as I have the right to ignore your dual request because saw me killing/stealing.

I'm sorry the MMO part ruin your "immersion" of the RPG part but if I can tolerant fire, storm and spriggan mounts everywhere then you can pretent like that thief/murderer don't exist. "Immerson" is not a good enough reason.

I'm sorry, but your single player experience ruins your "immersion" of MMO part. Did you ever tried LARP? Were you in the middle of fight when suddenly other fellow LARPer came to help your opponent? Did you try to tell him that he does not exist in this story as well?

Did you ever tried pen and paper RPG? There you have to cooperate with other real people too, you cannot simply tell GM that for some action you want to do your comrades stop to exist for a while.

[oops, sorry for double post, thought I'm editing my last comment ]

In those game you have a group of close friends who you know in real life and trust. You sit together to set up rules within the group. In MMO, with hundreds thousands strangers, I don't have to follow your rules, your "justice".

Bax · December 2017

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Bax wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

As a RPer I think people in this thread bring RP up as a reason for this forget 1 first and foremost rule in RP: You don't force your RP upon people.

You concern about NPC being murder? I'm sorry but in that murderer's story you do not exist. It's just him and the NPC. It's the same as a player decided to roleplay as vampire openly in a pub, showing fangs and bullying other RPers out of "our territory". I have the right to ignore that person, as much as I have the right to ignore your dual request because saw me killing/stealing.

I'm sorry the MMO part ruin your "immersion" of the RPG part but if I can tolerant fire, storm and spriggan mounts everywhere then you can pretent like that thief/murderer don't exist. "Immerson" is not a good enough reason.

I'm sorry, but your single player experience ruins your "immersion" of MMO part. Did you ever tried LARP? Were you in the middle of fight when suddenly other fellow LARPer came to help your opponent? Did you try to tell him that he does not exist in this story as well?

Did you ever tried pen and paper RPG? There you have to cooperate with other real people too, you cannot simply tell GM that for some action you want to do your comrades stop to exist for a while.

[oops, sorry for double post, thought I'm editing my last comment ]

In those game you have a group of close friends who you know in real life and trust. You sit together to set up rules within the group. In MMO, with hundreds thousands strangers, I don't have to follow your rules, your "justice".

Exactly, RULES.

What makes a rule during LARP that "you can join any fight you see out there" different from a rule "if a player has XYZ bounty on them, other player(s) can attack them".

There is already several rules set up for you. Like that you need 3 skyshards to get 1 skill point. Why nobody sit with me and asked me if I want less or more?

TheDarkShadow · December 2017

Bax wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Bax wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

As a RPer I think people in this thread bring RP up as a reason for this forget 1 first and foremost rule in RP: You don't force your RP upon people.

You concern about NPC being murder? I'm sorry but in that murderer's story you do not exist. It's just him and the NPC. It's the same as a player decided to roleplay as vampire openly in a pub, showing fangs and bullying other RPers out of "our territory". I have the right to ignore that person, as much as I have the right to ignore your dual request because saw me killing/stealing.

I'm sorry the MMO part ruin your "immersion" of the RPG part but if I can tolerant fire, storm and spriggan mounts everywhere then you can pretent like that thief/murderer don't exist. "Immerson" is not a good enough reason.

I'm sorry, but your single player experience ruins your "immersion" of MMO part. Did you ever tried LARP? Were you in the middle of fight when suddenly other fellow LARPer came to help your opponent? Did you try to tell him that he does not exist in this story as well?

Did you ever tried pen and paper RPG? There you have to cooperate with other real people too, you cannot simply tell GM that for some action you want to do your comrades stop to exist for a while.

[oops, sorry for double post, thought I'm editing my last comment ]

In those game you have a group of close friends who you know in real life and trust. You sit together to set up rules within the group. In MMO, with hundreds thousands strangers, I don't have to follow your rules, your "justice".

Exactly, RULES.

What makes a rule during LARP that "you can join any fight you see out there" different from a rule "if a player has XYZ bounty on them, other player(s) can attack them".

There is already several rules set up for you. Like that you need 3 skyshards to get 1 skill point. Why nobody sit with me and asked me if I want less or more?

They do ask. Remember the boxes you had to tick the first time you launch the game?

Bax · December 2017

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Bax wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Bax wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

As a RPer I think people in this thread bring RP up as a reason for this forget 1 first and foremost rule in RP: You don't force your RP upon people.

You concern about NPC being murder? I'm sorry but in that murderer's story you do not exist. It's just him and the NPC. It's the same as a player decided to roleplay as vampire openly in a pub, showing fangs and bullying other RPers out of "our territory". I have the right to ignore that person, as much as I have the right to ignore your dual request because saw me killing/stealing.

I'm sorry the MMO part ruin your "immersion" of the RPG part but if I can tolerant fire, storm and spriggan mounts everywhere then you can pretent like that thief/murderer don't exist. "Immerson" is not a good enough reason.

I'm sorry, but your single player experience ruins your "immersion" of MMO part. Did you ever tried LARP? Were you in the middle of fight when suddenly other fellow LARPer came to help your opponent? Did you try to tell him that he does not exist in this story as well?

Did you ever tried pen and paper RPG? There you have to cooperate with other real people too, you cannot simply tell GM that for some action you want to do your comrades stop to exist for a while.

[oops, sorry for double post, thought I'm editing my last comment ]

In those game you have a group of close friends who you know in real life and trust. You sit together to set up rules within the group. In MMO, with hundreds thousands strangers, I don't have to follow your rules, your "justice".

Exactly, RULES.

What makes a rule during LARP that "you can join any fight you see out there" different from a rule "if a player has XYZ bounty on them, other player(s) can attack them".

There is already several rules set up for you. Like that you need 3 skyshards to get 1 skill point. Why nobody sit with me and asked me if I want less or more?

They do ask. Remember the boxes you had to tick the first time you launch the game?

So now you will also agree that other players can attack you when you got too big bounty on yourself if it ever gets approved. You are quite starting to oppose your original argument yourself

Any other comments?

TheDarkShadow · December 2017

Bax wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Bax wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Bax wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

As a RPer I think people in this thread bring RP up as a reason for this forget 1 first and foremost rule in RP: You don't force your RP upon people.

You concern about NPC being murder? I'm sorry but in that murderer's story you do not exist. It's just him and the NPC. It's the same as a player decided to roleplay as vampire openly in a pub, showing fangs and bullying other RPers out of "our territory". I have the right to ignore that person, as much as I have the right to ignore your dual request because saw me killing/stealing.

I'm sorry the MMO part ruin your "immersion" of the RPG part but if I can tolerant fire, storm and spriggan mounts everywhere then you can pretent like that thief/murderer don't exist. "Immerson" is not a good enough reason.

I'm sorry, but your single player experience ruins your "immersion" of MMO part. Did you ever tried LARP? Were you in the middle of fight when suddenly other fellow LARPer came to help your opponent? Did you try to tell him that he does not exist in this story as well?

Did you ever tried pen and paper RPG? There you have to cooperate with other real people too, you cannot simply tell GM that for some action you want to do your comrades stop to exist for a while.

[oops, sorry for double post, thought I'm editing my last comment ]

In those game you have a group of close friends who you know in real life and trust. You sit together to set up rules within the group. In MMO, with hundreds thousands strangers, I don't have to follow your rules, your "justice".

Exactly, RULES.

What makes a rule during LARP that "you can join any fight you see out there" different from a rule "if a player has XYZ bounty on them, other player(s) can attack them".

There is already several rules set up for you. Like that you need 3 skyshards to get 1 skill point. Why nobody sit with me and asked me if I want less or more?

They do ask. Remember the boxes you had to tick the first time you launch the game?

So now you will also agree that other players can attack you when you got too big bounty on yourself if it ever gets approved. You are quite starting to oppose your original argument yourself Any other comments?

I say this idea is stupid and too easy to abuse, but yes, if they get approved, I will happily killing dozens of NPCs in places without guards, loot them all, sell loots, bank gold and gear, and help a friend get 1000g by killing me and clean my bounty.