Solution to fake tanks - add report function

Korah_Eaglecry · December 2017

Or you know, dont jump into a PUG. Problem solved.

Cage_Lizardman · December 2017

Just do it so the finder pairs up the fake tanks, at least those who don't even slot taunts, with nothing but fake healers and snipe spammers.

rfennell_ESO · December 2017

Myyth wrote: »

This is what I think is the solution to the fake tank problem.

Have a "report player for not performing role" feature. You right click on player in the group listing and report them for skipping the queue as a dps. Quick and simple.

After a player receives a certain amount of reports (3 or 5?) from different players in different groups the ability to queue as tank and healer is locked for a set amount of time. (1 week?) This would force that player to only queue as DPS with that character until that time expires. Since it requires reports from different players in multiple different groups it should prevent abuse.

What do you guys think?
I think it would be awesome way bring some fairness back and punish players who think they are entitled to skip the queue.

I would have much preferred 5 or 6 man groups for this reason.

They chose to go with 4, which seriously limits the amount of groups that can be formed because there is always more dps roles than tanks and healers.

If you compare dungeon groups to raids, it doesn't add up. Raids are 2 tanks, 2-3 healers, 7-8 dps. Break that down to dungeon groups and it's 2 groups with a 3rd group with either no tank or no tank nor healer. I know it might seem a little nitpicky, but actual tanks in pve are not in supply compared to the dps.

Past all that I can tell you the average wait time for a tank is 0 (or very very low) and the average wait in queue for dps is "a really long time, if it ever happens". So, sometimes you can understand why a dps queues as a tank. No condoning it, just saying it's mostly due to the 4 man group size and player representation by role.

MaleAmazon · December 2017

Now that I think about it the best solution IMO would be to add a button "accept unbalanced groups"; and if you checked that then it could pair you up with anyone. That way you could get the bloody queue moving with 4-DD groups.

TheDarkShadow · December 2017

Uncle Sheo cheesed me today and put me in Cradle with an almighty 3 roles "tank" with 17-18k health, with a bow and no shield (wonder if group finder pick healer role for him, how can he heal with a bow). And a DD 12k health. All of them are CP level, as I am, unforunately, so unlike those low level players can just fake roles and get easy dungeons and being carried, CP levels with ESO+ face the risk of getting DLC dungeons.

I joined in at 1st boss and before me, a healer already quit. With no tank boss just running around 1 shotting people. They don't even block to avoid 1 shot.

I soon followed the 1st healer footstep. If we had a real tank, maybe we would have a change.

KanedaSyndrome · December 2017

Myyth wrote: »

This is what I think is the solution to the fake tank problem.

Have a "report player for not performing role" feature. You right click on player in the group listing and report them for skipping the queue as a dps. Quick and simple.

After a player receives a certain amount of reports (3 or 5?) from different players in different groups the ability to queue as tank and healer is locked for a set amount of time. (1 week?) This would force that player to only queue as DPS with that character until that time expires. Since it requires reports from different players in multiple different groups it should prevent abuse.

What do you guys think?
I think it would be awesome way bring some fairness back and punish players who think they are entitled to skip the queue.

Would still be abused I think. Have a group that isn't performing well? Report the tank/healer, even if they -are- performing their role.

Mureel · December 2017

Myyth wrote: »

This is what I think is the solution to the fake tank problem.

Have a "report player for not performing role" feature. You right click on player in the group listing and report them for skipping the queue as a dps. Quick and simple.

After a player receives a certain amount of reports (3 or 5?) from different players in different groups the ability to queue as tank and healer is locked for a set amount of time. (1 week?) This would force that player to only queue as DPS with that character until that time expires. Since it requires reports from different players in multiple different groups it should prevent abuse.

What do you guys think?
I think it would be awesome way bring some fairness back and punish players who think they are entitled to skip the queue.

OH MY GOD! If you are on NA PC please tell me your @ name so I can block you right now so I NEVER have to meet you in game.

I really cannot believe what I am reading (no I do not queue as tank, but not the point)!

If they do THEY BETTER DAMN have the option to report BAD DPS for not doing THEIR role and make them flat not queue till they can solo a normal dungeon.

What you fail to see is that WE CAN clear without tanks. Can you clear without us?

No one in any of my guilds is having issues about fake tanks - so who are these people I've never even heard of talking about punishing players for not performing their role - lol. If that PERSON HAS BOSS AGRO then they are doing that role - and if they do the most DPS - then they will have boss agro.

Stop being petty.

zaria · December 2017

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

Myyth wrote: »

This is what I think is the solution to the fake tank problem.

Have a "report player for not performing role" feature. You right click on player in the group listing and report them for skipping the queue as a dps. Quick and simple.

After a player receives a certain amount of reports (3 or 5?) from different players in different groups the ability to queue as tank and healer is locked for a set amount of time. (1 week?) This would force that player to only queue as DPS with that character until that time expires. Since it requires reports from different players in multiple different groups it should prevent abuse.

What do you guys think?
I think it would be awesome way bring some fairness back and punish players who think they are entitled to skip the queue.

Would still be abused I think. Have a group that isn't performing well? Report the tank/healer, even if they -are- performing their role.

This, and I have had run into plenty of bad tanks with sword and board, bad or new is not fake.
Also you have bosses who can not be taunted like last in darkshade 2 who also is an pug breaker even on normal.
Proably worse for healer who don't healed trough one shot mechanics.

dodgehopper_ESO · December 2017

SydneyGrey wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

[snip] Why do people get so worked up about "fake tanks" when the real issue are the "fake DPS" that you see? If your DPS is high enough, you can blow through virtually every normal dungeon without a tank, without a healer. It's when the DPS are in 30K health heavy armor light-attacking with their bow that they start to notice problems.
Of course, I would never advocate such a draconian "solution" to the "fake DPS" problem, nor would I ever entertain this for this so-called problem of yours.

There's no such thing as "fake" DPS. There is bad DPS, but not "fake" DPS. When you queue for a dungeon there are only three roles you can choose from when you enter, and if you're not a tank or healer, you have to check off the DPS box by default. Basically, you don't want anyone doing DPS unless they're extremely competent. That would be ideal, sure, but you can't say that newer or less competent people aren't allowed to do dungeons. If you don't want incompetent people PUGing with you, then don't do PUGs. Do dungeon runs with a high-level guild group instead.

Actually Fake DPS would be a guy who is Heavy Attacking with Ice Staffs but set as DPS role. Fake DPS would be a guy who keeps clicking inner fire or piercing. Yes, that would be Fake DPS and they do exist, usually because they are new. You get the point though as proven in your point above. You recognize that the OP's suggestion could be abusive toward new players as well as experienced players alike. There was a guild in quite a few other games called the Goons who would think up something behind this if they made this rule allowed. I for one could think of ways of locking out most of a game's Tanks so that almost no one can queue.

The suggestion is bad because there is a solution to the problem already. If you don't like your team you can always leave or kick. Before you do that you should probably try communication, it is an MMO after all. Try the social side of the game. Sometimes you can make friends with people who are less/more competent than you are. Sometimes its fun to get to know people. Have fun people and lighten up, its just a dungeon crawl... its not even that bad. If you fail its not a big deal.

[edited to remove quote]

swirve · December 2017

Vet ruins of mazza with a fake healer and fake tank both CP300ish... lol

Mureel · December 2017

disintegr8 wrote: »

I say that a simple vote to kick should be tried and if that fails move on.

I have encountered fake tanks, low DPS and the 'run ahead' during the 4 dungeons I have run in the event. This is all in normal mode and high CP players simply say that it doesn't matter, we don't need this, that, or the other because it is not vet.

My response is always that if you want to run the dungeon your way, don't use group finder. Being able to do 30k dps when queued as a tank with no taunts does not make the lower level healer feel better when he is running away from the boss to save his own skin.

Unless ZOS implement some automatic checks in the group finder, which would be hard to do, it will often be an individuals concept of what is good or bad, which may be different from other peoples.

Bad answer because if the DPS is 30k normal dungeon bosses are dead before the healer has to run anywhere. Group dps of 10-15 this could be a problem. Then that’s the dps fault and it would be the same or worse with a tank.

Mureel · December 2017

MaleAmazon wrote: »

Now that I think about it the best solution IMO would be to add a button "accept unbalanced groups"; and if you checked that then it could pair you up with anyone. That way you could get the bloody queue moving with 4-DD groups.

That would be cool. Plus high chance of amusing shenanigans. I like it.

raj72616a · December 2017

how about solution to fake dps?

fake tank is a myth. if you are delusional about it and insist that it is a problem, just go tank yourself. problem solved.

Urza1234 · December 2017

KrazyKooter wrote: »

Myyth wrote: »

This is what I think is the solution to the fake tank problem.

Have a "report player for not performing role" feature. You right click on player in the group listing and report them for skipping the queue as a dps. Quick and simple.

After a player receives a certain amount of reports (3 or 5?) from different players in different groups the ability to queue as tank and healer is locked for a set amount of time. (1 week?) This would force that player to only queue as DPS with that character until that time expires. Since it requires reports from different players in multiple different groups it should prevent abuse.

What do you guys think?
I think it would be awesome way bring some fairness back and punish players who think they are entitled to skip the queue.

I think it depends. I don't think they would ever implement this. Your best bet is to Vote to Kick. That's what we did the last time we had a DPS queue in as a tank because "it was quicker".

I had a group that kicked the same dual wielding NB "tank" 5 times in a row. We kept going because yes, its a normal, 3-manning wasnt hard. However 5 times in a row as we were going we queued for a new tank and it kept giving us the exact same person that we kicked in the first place.

Eventually we just didnt re-queue.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO · December 2017

There is already the option to kick someone. The real problem is when the rest of the party doess not give a damn about cheaters. At that point, you should leave the group, since you are not happy with it.

But of course, fake tanks, as well as healers, are essentially cheating the queue system. ZEN should really do something about it that does not allow other people to abuse it.

Tommy_The_Gun · December 2017

UnversedNumber3 wrote: »

That sounds like an easy way for a 3 man premade to ban anyone that dosent meet their standards.

Unfortunately this is what will happen. Tanks may have the shortest queue - but usually the are blamed for literally everything and vote-kicked for no good reason. And here are the best ones I had so far:

- Doing group dungeon quest (the one that gives you 1 skill point)... others did not wanted to wait for me or even help me to complete that quest - vote-kick - 10 minutes waiting penalty.
- Not dying - yep - this happened... some DPS that was dying like crazy was angry at me because I did not die
once in a dungeon - vote-kick - 10 minutes waiting penalty.
- Not voting to kick someone... yep this also happened. Doing normal dungeons I almost NEVER vote to kick someone - just because... how the hell is a new player supposed to learn the boss mechanics ? ? ? By soloing the dungeon ?! Either way I did not vote to kick - thus they voted to kick me (#logick) - vote-kick - 10 minutes waiting penalty.
- Dying to one-shot mechanics in vet dungeons... 40K Oblivion (unavoidable dmg) - vote-kick - 10 minutes waiting penalty.

I could really make a list of even more absurd reasons but it would take a whole new thread to do so.
The point is - the current system has flaws and is incredibly abused. The curent vote-kick mechanics needs to be changed because (as far as I know) all is needed is 2 votes...

sevomd69 · December 2017

Myyth wrote: »

This is what I think is the solution to the fake tank problem.

Have a "report player for not performing role" feature. You right click on player in the group listing and report them for skipping the queue as a dps. Quick and simple.

After a player receives a certain amount of reports (3 or 5?) from different players in different groups the ability to queue as tank and healer is locked for a set amount of time. (1 week?) This would force that player to only queue as DPS with that character until that time expires. Since it requires reports from different players in multiple different groups it should prevent abuse.

What do you guys think?
I think it would be awesome way bring some fairness back and punish players who think they are entitled to skip the queue.

So what would constitute "tanking" to you...that the player has S&B equipped?...that he/she has a taunt slotted?...that he/she is perma-blocking? And...if the player only fulfills one of those requirements, than is he/she a tank? If I slotted inner rage as a magsorc would I be a tank...or not?

jaschacasadiob16_ESO · December 2017

Hollery wrote: »

Fake tanks aren't a problem really... Unless it's CoAII or a DLC dungeon in VET (not normal) you shouldn't need a tank

Well, then since this is not Warcraft, let's make that everyone is responsible for himself. You brew your own potions, pick the right skills on your bar and sustain yourself. You die? Go play Destiny.

Kel · December 2017

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

There is already the option to kick someone. The real problem is when the rest of the party doess not give a damn about cheaters. At that point, you should leave the group, since you are not happy with it.

But of course, fake tanks, as well as healers, are essentially cheating the queue system. ZEN should really do something about it that does not allow other people to abuse it.

This is the problem with having to queue for a role in the first place.
Healer: near instant queue
Tank: near instant queue
DPS: 15 to 40 minute queue
"And don't you dare try to skip your wait time..that's cheating. Nevermind that I've yet to see a post where a fake tank has actually hindered a normal dungeon run. No..you dirty dps just better wait your turn..save the instant queue for the real roles.."

Yes, Zen should do something. Get rid of the trinity for normal dungeon runs. Save the roles for vet dungeons and all trials.
Again, what diffrence does this make as long as it's not causing a wipe-fest? Fake role causing a problem? Sure, kick that person. If its not though, why do you care? Stop trying to control how people play. You must be fun at parties...My experience in this event is that a DD queuing as a tank has made the dungeons go extremely fast. Way better if you have a lot of alts you're trying to get through dungeons. The only ones I see hindering the run are the ones who stop to complain about fake tanks...and that hasn't even happened in game yet...just in the forums, so I'm inclined to believe this isn't really an issue in game, just a stance keyboard warriors are taking up a cause for. I guess they don't like quick fast easy runs...the rest of the party doesn't give a damn about "cheaters" because they are melting enemies and running through normal dungeons at record speed. In a event where that is a benefit, no less.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO · December 2017

jabrone77 wrote: »

This is the problem with having to queue for a role in the first place.
Healer: near instant queue
Tank: near instant queue
DPS: 15 to 40 minute queue
"And don't you dare try to skip your wait time..that's cheating. Nevermind that I've yet to see a post where a fake tank has actually hindered a normal dungeon run. No..you dirty dps just better wait your turn..save the instant queue for the real roles.."

Yes, Zen should do something. Get rid of the trinity for normal dungeon runs. Save the roles for vet dungeons and all trials.
Again, what diffrence does this make as long as it's not causing a wipe-fest? Fake role causing a problem? Sure, kick that person. If its not though, why do you care? Stop trying to control how people play. You must be fun at parties...My experience in this event is that a DD queuing as a tank has made the dungeons go extremely fast.

...

Well, the fact that there is a queue is caused by the abudance of DDs. How many characters you have? How many are DDs? Blame yourself, considering there is double DDs in each group.

According to me, queueing up as something you are not is cheating, since you are exploiting the system and disrespecting other DDs who are waiting their turn.

Every time you cheat the queue you are causing the problem the spread more and more. Stop abusing it, if you are tired of it.

Honestly, I dont mind if you are not a tank but can tank. What I don't like is fake tanks going down in a hit or not able to control mobs. It's a waste of everyone's time. I do not expect everything to be an assassins' run. But I don't want to waste half an hour on the last boss because of you.

Now some genius comes out telling us how great three sorcerer DDs can clear fast dungeons. These glass cannons, once the fight gets a little tough require spamming heals and shards like hell. Not sure if you enjoy that. I do not.
[/quote]

sevomd69 · December 2017

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

This is the problem with having to queue for a role in the first place.
Healer: near instant queue
Tank: near instant queue
DPS: 15 to 40 minute queue
"And don't you dare try to skip your wait time..that's cheating. Nevermind that I've yet to see a post where a fake tank has actually hindered a normal dungeon run. No..you dirty dps just better wait your turn..save the instant queue for the real roles.."

Yes, Zen should do something. Get rid of the trinity for normal dungeon runs. Save the roles for vet dungeons and all trials.
Again, what diffrence does this make as long as it's not causing a wipe-fest? Fake role causing a problem? Sure, kick that person. If its not though, why do you care? Stop trying to control how people play. You must be fun at parties...My experience in this event is that a DD queuing as a tank has made the dungeons go extremely fast.

...

Well, the fact that there is a queue is caused by the abudance of DDs. How many characters you have? How many are DDs? Blame yourself, considering there is double DDs in each group.

According to me, queueing up as something you are not is cheating, since you are exploiting the system and disrespecting other DDs who are waiting their turn.

Every time you cheat the queue you are causing the problem the spread more and more. Stop abusing it, if you are tired of it.

Honestly, I dont mind if you are not a tank but can tank. What I don't like is fake tanks going down in a hit or not able to control mobs. It's a waste of everyone's time. I do not expect everything to be an assassins' run. But I don't want to waste half an hour on the last boss because of you.

Now some genius comes out telling us how great three sorcerer DDs can clear fast dungeons. These glass cannons, once the fight gets a little tough require spamming heals and shards like hell. Not sure if you enjoy that. I do not.

[/quote]

Get me 3 good magsorcs...don't even need 4...not even great...just good... and we will clear almost any content faster than a 2-1-1 group...no spam heals or shards required...

kringled_1 · December 2017

I don't support the OP's concept, but it can be annoying when you have a non-functional tank/healer.
For all those who claim that 3-4 good dd's can melt dungeon bosses: I don't doubt it for non-DLC normals. And if everything is melting, all is good. But my experience to date in PUGs has shown me that there are plenty of people who just think they're that good, and aren't even close.
For those who are a standard DD with a taunt slotted: if you're using it, and can hold up under boss aggro one way or the other, then I'm not complaining either. That's the basic tank function, good enough for normals.
It's the tank I ran with on FG1 last night, who ran ahead of the group, then crit rushed into a trash mob group even further ahead, died, and complained about the healer, who never had anything but a 2H weapon up, never taunted, and was easily the squishiest of the group. As healer, I spent a lot of time kiting/blocking, aoe damage was mostly wasted as the boss regularly reacquired aggro on me or the dps and chased out of it. It was normal FG1, we got through it fine, but it's a silly, inefficient way to run the dungeon.

Kel · December 2017

Honestly, I dont mind if you are not a tank but can tank. What I don't like is fake tanks going down in a hit or not able to control mobs. It's a waste of everyone's time. I do not expect everything to be an assassins' run. But I don't want to waste half an hour on the last boss because of you

Apparently you missed the part where I say if it caused a problem, kicking is fair. But if not, what harm does it do? You're so wrapped up in your own argument that you fail to see the reason behind what I'm saying.
I'm saying if it's a problem, sure, take action. But if things are going fine, why make a problem when there isn't one?
Way to willfully miss the point...

Mureel · December 2017

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

This is the problem with having to queue for a role in the first place.
Healer: near instant queue
Tank: near instant queue
DPS: 15 to 40 minute queue
"And don't you dare try to skip your wait time..that's cheating. Nevermind that I've yet to see a post where a fake tank has actually hindered a normal dungeon run. No..you dirty dps just better wait your turn..save the instant queue for the real roles.."

Yes, Zen should do something. Get rid of the trinity for normal dungeon runs. Save the roles for vet dungeons and all trials.
Again, what diffrence does this make as long as it's not causing a wipe-fest? Fake role causing a problem? Sure, kick that person. If its not though, why do you care? Stop trying to control how people play. You must be fun at parties...My experience in this event is that a DD queuing as a tank has made the dungeons go extremely fast.

...

Well, the fact that there is a queue is caused by the abudance of DDs. How many characters you have? How many are DDs? Blame yourself, considering there is double DDs in each group.

According to me, queueing up as something you are not is cheating, since you are exploiting the system and disrespecting other DDs who are waiting their turn.

Every time you cheat the queue you are causing the problem the spread more and more. Stop abusing it, if you are tired of it.

Honestly, I dont mind if you are not a tank but can tank. What I don't like is fake tanks going down in a hit or not able to control mobs. It's a waste of everyone's time. I do not expect everything to be an assassins' run. But I don't want to waste half an hour on the last boss because of you.

Now some genius comes out telling us how great three sorcerer DDs can clear fast dungeons. These glass cannons, once the fight gets a little tough require spamming heals and shards like hell. Not sure if you enjoy that. I do not.

[/quote]

Oh shh. There are 8-10 dps spots and 2/4 healer tank spots in a raid and 2/1/1 in a dungeon.

There need be more dps than tanks and healers. Therefore there are more dps than tanks and healers.

Stop saying ridiculous things.

I never have an issue healing and buffing and debuffing and spamming resources for DPS. Most my runs are no deaths at all as a matter of course - so perhaps you’re coming across bad players.

Perhaps you have a sustain issue or are just not a good healer. Not everyone is cut out for healing.

Sadly, many folks only become a ‘healer’ because they can’t dps. Those are sadly also mostly bad healers.

I adore having 3 sorcs in my party! Or 3 good dps of any class.

Mettaricana · December 2017

How about just having the game benchmark check all players in queue of doesnt have a taunt slotted and lacks x amount of health armor and resist they cannot select tank

Same for healer of they dont have x amount of healing skills and resource they cant select healer

Dps if they have like 2200wep dmg or whatever spell dmg is considered tolerable. They cant queue as dps

Would teach tanks to tank real fast and teach healers to heal real fast.

starkerealm · December 2017

Myyth wrote: »

What do you guys think?

I think you can already report someone for being a "fake" tank or healer, if you wanted. Just, you know, expect to be slapped around by the GMs for filing "fake" reports. But, don't let that stop you. Just keep reporting them, until the blood flows freely over the stones.

Korah_Eaglecry · December 2017

Some of you really need to step away from the game for a moment and take a deep breath. I know it can be frustrating when youre pressed for time to get your 10th character through the queue and someone is messing your speed run up. But if you think the solution to your problems is to have ZOS implement a Report Button for a player that is not performing up to your standards in a PUG dungeon. You might just be a little too emotionally involved with this event. The easiest solution to any of this is for you to go find friends to run these dungeons with. Rather than attempt to punish a player for behavior that you cant accurately predict as being malicious.

swirve · December 2017

jabrone77 wrote: »

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

There is already the option to kick someone. The real problem is when the rest of the party doess not give a damn about cheaters. At that point, you should leave the group, since you are not happy with it.

But of course, fake tanks, as well as healers, are essentially cheating the queue system. ZEN should really do something about it that does not allow other people to abuse it.

This is the problem with having to queue for a role in the first place.
Healer: near instant queue
Tank: near instant queue
DPS: 15 to 40 minute queue
"And don't you dare try to skip your wait time..that's cheating. Nevermind that I've yet to see a post where a fake tank has actually hindered a normal dungeon run. No..you dirty dps just better wait your turn..save the instant queue for the real roles.."

Yes, Zen should do something. Get rid of the trinity for normal dungeon runs. Save the roles for vet dungeons and all trials.
Again, what diffrence does this make as long as it's not causing a wipe-fest? Fake role causing a problem? Sure, kick that person. If its not though, why do you care? Stop trying to control how people play. You must be fun at parties...My experience in this event is that a DD queuing as a tank has made the dungeons go extremely fast. Way better if you have a lot of alts you're trying to get through dungeons. The only ones I see hindering the run are the ones who stop to complain about fake tanks...and that hasn't even happened in game yet...just in the forums, so I'm inclined to believe this isn't really an issue in game, just a stance keyboard warriors are taking up a cause for. I guess they don't like quick fast easy runs...the rest of the party doesn't give a damn about "cheaters" because they are melting enemies and running through normal dungeons at record speed. In a event where that is a benefit, no less.

Ahhh it makes sense now... you are a DPS who is bitter and maybe fake tanks... no wonder you dont want people to have the ability to not have to carry fake tanks...

Ive had several instances of fake tanks ruining runs just in the last week. These are vet dngs inc wgt, icp and the DLC

idk · December 2017

Considering most dungeons do not need the trinity I do not see the point.

Besides, the report function can easily be abused.

Do not like that the tank pulls two mob groups together, someone reports him/her even though the pull went fine.

Do not like that the healer healed the entire dungeon with merely BoL, repot them even though no one died.

Oh, and there would be reporting of DPS. Think their 30k single target damage is to low to be entering the dungeon (even though you are only pulling 20k, report them.

Just a bad idea.

swirve · December 2017

Add block feature so you dont get matchmade with them would be a good addition.