Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

JarlUlfric wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

JarlUlfric wrote: »

It's a normal, it doesn't need a tank or a healer. Self heals + dps is perfectly capable of completing. Don't make a mountain of a mole hill.

Then queue DPS.

Dont be entitled.

It's not being entitled. There is nothing wrong with people queuing up for normals with roles that they aren't specced out as. Normals have 0 mechanics, nothing. There's is absolutely 0 reason someone should be having trouble in one.

It is absolutely about being entitled.

There is something wrong with it when you cut in friggin line.

Justifications of greed fall on deaf ears. Queue as DPS like the rest of the world or make a tank toon.

Of course, people like you usually just queue with a friend so you can dig in your heel and have someone shield you from geting votekicked when people have a problem with your bull.

I have 14 max level characters, of the 14, two are tanks, and two are healers. I don't need you to tell me what I can and cannot do. It's not cutting in line, it's queuing up to play the game.

Anyways I mostly queue with guildies and people I know, so I rarely have this issue.

Pugs will be pugs, I guess.

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Eh, for normal dungeons it doesn't matter so much. I'd say it's not even necessary to have any tank or healer.

When you queue with friends and everybody is dps, at least one of you has to activate the other roles. If it's normal random queue I would make sure I can heal myself if necessary and would not expect any tank or healer.

Exactly! There's nothing wrong with it. It's a freakin' normal. For veteran dungeons and battlegrounds I'd be more understanding if people were bringing in inappropriate characters, but there's literally nothing on the line for normals. It's 5 maybe 10 minutes of mindless dps and you're done.

JarlUlfric wrote: »

It's 5 maybe 10 minutes of mindless dps and you're done.

that's the best kind of DPS.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

It is absolutely about being entitled.

There is something wrong with it when you cut in friggin line.

Justifications of greed fall on deaf ears. Queue as DPS like the rest of the world or make a tank toon.

Of course, people like you usually just queue with a friend so you can dig in your heel and have someone shield you from geting votekicked when people have a problem with your bull.

In vet dungeons, of course, roles are important and those who takes fake role - are bad. But in normal? No.

1. Usually 4 DD can do it without healer or tank;
2. There are more DD than others;
3. You can't go to random dungeon with not right roles.
Do you see where problem is? Tank/heal role is needed where real tank/healer doesn't. Instead of allowing 4 DD to group, game demands them to wait for 2 tanks and 2 healers they don't really need. So - longer queue, so - fake roles.

Maybe, it's stupid idea, but I think, it could be better, if there would be some possibility to go to normal dungeon without full roles. I don't know... something like checkbox "allow incompatible roles" - who wants full group, will get tank and heal, who is sure he'll manage with any group - can go with 3 or 4 DD.

(And no, I don't use fake roles myself. Specially, at least - few times forgot to switch after going with friends. However, it never was a problem + my main is not very good DD, but can tank or heal a little)

Not everything goes according to plan.

You make the plan,
you execute the plan,
then you throw away the plan.

Enemoriana wrote: »

Maybe, it's stupid idea, but I think, it could be better, if there would be some possibility to go to normal dungeon without full roles. I don't know... something like checkbox "allow incompatible roles" - who wants full group, will get tank and heal, who is sure he'll manage with any group - can go with 3 or 4 DD.

That might not be a bad QOL update.

One of those, now that this game is 3 years old kind of changes.

BlanketFort wrote: »

Fake roles happen quite a lot in vet randoms, too, and I find it sickening. Truly just obnoxious, selfish behaviour. Got vet falkreath as random today on my healer, and the CP 690 fake tank boldly typed "no tank, heal me". Gave Mr. Macho Magsorc a shot and he proceeded to streak forward to drag all the mobs (and the minotaurs too) to the first boss, and died shortly thereafter, with us trailing far behind him, leaving us to deal with the chaos he instigated. He got ressed, only to die again a split-second later, then demands for "heal me more" as he lays there.. dead, limp, and useless.

Perhaps he queued for vet by accident? Not according to him, he wanted vet random, but didn't think he'd land in Falkreath (today's pledge, btw...)

This was almost an EPIDEMIC, today.

On one of my alts who does respectable damage (cp690, 20-25k), I spent 20 minutes in the queue for a random vet dungeon to end up in an instance of Wayrest Sewers with a cp51 sorc "healer" who did not heal. Didn't even try. We get to the lich with the super health-drain beams and we wipe instantly. Turns out the fake healer doesn't heal AND doesn't speak English. I was in the dungeon for four minutes, two attempts on the lich -- in that time, two tanks joined AND dropped along with another DPS. The fake "healer" just kept re-queuing OVER and OVER and OVER, wasting everyone's time.

Those players who dropped had to suffer the 15-minute penalty because of this ONE selfish jerk. We finally initiated a kick and booted him from his own group.

Then there was the "smart-guy" cp56 who spoke English, but thought it would be funny to ignore the mechanics of the last boss in vet Tempest Island AND ignore the rest of us who kept trying to explain the mechanics to him. He wasn't just selfish, he was a troll. Dead-silent the entire time, so I ask "Do you speak English?" and wait for a response that didn't come for at least five minutes: "I only speak MURICAN." Needless to say, I was running low on patience after the fake healer debacle, so I wasn't in the mood to suffer anymore petty antics.

The last straw came when smart guy thought there was nothing we could do to stop his trolling -- actually asked "What are you gonna do about it?" So ya, we booted the "smart-guy" who didn't know voting to kick IS A THING.

No kidding, I'm getting really sick of these idiots REALLY FAST.

These were VETERAN dungeons, not normal. If you just want the mystery box and you know you're not very good, just queue for a normal dungeon and stop wasting everyone else's time (and patience).

The rewards for this event have not been good enough to warrant the amount of crap we have to endure.

THIS EVENT WAS A DUMB IDEA

Those who cheat Group Finder suck Molag Bals, but I don't think there's a way to solve this programmatically because you can't code decency. There are a lot of shameless ***.

Try LFGing in zone then using Group Finder to get into a dungeon. It's not an ideal solution, but it's something.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

JarlUlfric wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

JarlUlfric wrote: »

It's a normal, it doesn't need a tank or a healer. Self heals + dps is perfectly capable of completing. Don't make a mountain of a mole hill.

Then queue DPS.

Dont be entitled.

It's not being entitled. There is nothing wrong with people queuing up for normals with roles that they aren't specced out as. Normals have 0 mechanics, nothing. There's is absolutely 0 reason someone should be having trouble in one.

It is absolutely about being entitled.

There is something wrong with it when you cut in friggin line.

Justifications of greed fall on deaf ears. Queue as DPS like the rest of the world or make a tank toon.

Of course, people like you usually just queue with a friend so you can dig in your heel and have someone shield you from geting votekicked when people have a problem with your bull.

It's this kind of mentality that makes Group Finder absolute garbage.

Stop spreading these lies because most pug DPS cannot breeze through normals. The average pug DPS from Group Finder does ~5k DPS, stands in all the fire, and seems to try their damnedest to fall over and die. Even normal dungeons are a struggle for Group Finder DPS.

I say this as a tank who uses Group Finder every day. (When I say 'tank', I mean I'm a proper tank -> rock solid, group buffs, mob debuffs, CC, etc. I keep the squishies in my group safe and buff them so they can do their jobs efficiently.)

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Eh, for normal dungeons it doesn't matter so much. I'd say it's not even necessary to have any tank or healer.

When you queue with friends and everybody is dps, at least one of you has to activate the other roles. If it's normal random queue I would make sure I can heal myself if necessary and would not expect any tank or healer.

That needs to change

If four people premake a group then the rolls shouldn't need to be set

The group knows what they're capable of and are either going to blitz it or maybe they're setting themselves a challenge

Like trying to complete a vet on 4 pure healers for a laugh

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

First, I want to make clear that I'm totally ok with people who know that they can solo dungeon and can carry no matter what group they get. They can queue as 3 roles as much as they want. Thank you for help pushing the queue faster and carry people.

Here I want to say about people who actually can't do ***. Yes we're doing fine, it's a simple normal dungeon. A DD carries the group doing 70% damage and 80% heal. But it's not fair for that DD who stay true to his role and have to wait 30m in the queue, then have to carry the whole group, while other just fake their role, get group with in 5m and tag along for the loot. It's like lying you are pregnant to get ahead of the line in the shop. Take a long and hard look at yourself on the mirror.

Completely agree, I hate these people and I always vote to kick them as soon as i find out they're fake or not able to carry us through.

If all DPS players would actually queue as DPS only, all DPS players would have to wait for even longer. DPS players queueing as tank and/or healer are reducing the queue time for those who queue as DPS! It can't be compared to your "lying to get ahead in line" example.

Being able to carry or being in need of a carry is a completely different topic and has nothing to do with the role(s) someone queued for.

Rianai wrote: »

If all DPS players would actually queue as DPS only, all DPS players would have to wait for even longer. DPS players queueing as tank and/or healer are reducing the queue time for those who queue as DPS! It can't be compared to your "lying to get ahead in line" example.

Being able to carry or being in need of a carry is a completely different topic and has nothing to do with the role(s) someone queued for.

Again, read what I said in the 1st post and probably the 5-6 times in this thread: If you think you can carry the group with your dps, go queue for tank and heal even if you are not intent to tank/heal. This thread is not about you. This is about people who actually cannot tank/heal, and even suck at dps, cut the line to get a group faster, hope that someone will carry them. It's not fair for those who cannot tank/heal and have enough decency to admit that and queue as dps. The fake tank/healer that cannot do the job they queue for and cannot carry not only cut the line for those before them, but also waste the time of those who unfortunately group with them, because the group might wipe and disband and those people have to queue again from the bottom of the line.

Rianai wrote: »

Why does it matter for what role a bad player queues? A bad dps player isn't any better than a bad tank or healer. Queueing as tank or healer doesn't hurt anyone, so why is it unfair? What about those who queue as dps without actually doing decent dps? Why isn't this unfair too, i mean, they are increasing the queue time for those dps players who are actually good at their role.

As a healer i'd rather have a bad tank than bad dps players (only in vet dungeons, in normal i don't care at all).

Because when you queue as tank/healer, you get a group faster than a DD that actually queue for DD. It's not fair for those DD who do not LIE.

ZOS needs to have 2 separate queues:
1) Traditional (2 DD, 1 Tank, 1 Healer)
2) Nontraditional (all DD)