PvP , what's the truth?

Dredlord · November 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

IMO, for all its issues, ESO is the best PVP MMO available

Until last patch...

CMz · November 2017

The primary difference between PvP and PvE: in PvP the use of CE diminishes the game experience of others not abusing the game; in PvE the use of CE only diminishes yourself.

Betsararie · November 2017

teiselaise wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

@Blanco PVP and PVE are completely different builds with completely focus and play style. I wouldn't say PVP requires "more skill" but I would say it requires "different skills".

If you take any end game trials group and get them to spend as much time learning how to co-ordinate as a PVP group, getting geared up etc as they do to clear vMoL or vHoF and they will crush 95% of the time in PVP.

Yes, PVE players get wrecked when they go into PVP, of course they do. They have spent hours and hours perfecting their rotation so they can git gud and everything they have learned is useless in PVP.

Likewise if you take a PVP'er into a vet DLC dungeon you're going to have a bad time. They will either do very poor damage or they will be completely out of resources.

The exceptions of course are people who do both, understand both and 99% of the time have different characters for each.

Something this game does terribly is allow you to have 1 character you can take from PVP to PVE smoothly.
you want different skills, different morphs and different gear, and that's not even taking into account play style.

The thing with PvP is it requires a lot more movement and reflexes.

True that each require "different" skills. It's not like PvE doesn't require skill, I wouldn't say that.

But I had never even used a dodge roll in PvE, as an example. Dodge rolling basically doesn't exist in PvE. You always have a healer by your side. You don't have to worry about managing resources as much. Rotations take skill but it's nothing a little practice won't grant. Also in PvE there are breaks, the boss will stop attacking you and go to another group member for example. So I would really have to say PvE is a lot slower paced.

So it is true that both require different skill, but PvE is also much more relaxed. The hardest part of PvE are the one-shot mechanics from bosses and usually it will just take a couple wipes before the group gets what to do. I did a lot of all of the hard dlc dungeons before they were nerfed vWGT, vCoS, vRoM, no deathed them and speedran some of them and I enjoyed it and it does take skill, but it just isn't as hard.

You are greatly exaggerating both the difficulty of PVP and the ease of PVE. "Never dodge roll" in PVE? Really? It's literally the only way to not die in vCoS. And how is that a metric for difficulty anyway?

More movement and reflexes? Than the twins in vMoL? Than vICP warden dusk? Not from what I've seen.
I'm not a dedicated PVP'er but I've done my share. Some people will smash me every time. Enough of the time it goes the other way however.
I hate to say it but breaking line of sight, coordinating your ults and sticking together to share vigors isn't exactly black magic and it's certainly easier than passing the pinion around in vWGT.

Most of the time PVP is about threat assessment. Can you take that player / group or should you run and hide? Can you bait out a few people from the zerg so you can kill them or not?

To which I will rebut: go solo in Cyro and take on a group of 5 good CP 690s 1v5. Go on.

According to you PvP isn't that hard, so that must be easy right? It's not that hard, taking on a group 1v5 is about on the level of the warden dusk fight, amirite? LUL. Because it's so hard to jump in the blue thing on the ground. Yup!

It's not like taking on 5 good players 1v5 is next to impossible, right? No they're about the same.

I challenge you to beat all of the best players in the game in a duel. That's right, go and duel every single player who is good and beat them all. PvP is pretty easy right, so it shouldn't be that hard. Never mind that nobody can beat every other good player in a duel!

Yup, zerging doesn't require skill but being good in PvP does. Just like how Pv Door doesn't require skill. Solo play, duels, and small scale is where the skill is.

I challenge you to coordinate a group to get the maximum possible score in every trial

Ok, so just to clarify my position, which I do stand behind because I believe in my point of view.

Vet Trials are hard. They're really hard (depending on factors). It's very hard to get a top tier "world class" time. My hat goes off to those people, because that is really hard and also takes a lot of skill. It takes a ton of skill.

So getting the best trial scores in the world is incredibly hard and takes incredible amounts of skill, and those people do deserve recognition.

But my argument is more along the lines of- PVE in general is nowhere near the difficulty level of PVP in general. And I think that is a tired argument by this stage in the thread, but I do believe it is true.

Something like Spindleclutch I, CoA II or even vRoM is just not hard IMO. It's not. What's hard is becoming really good at PVP. Killing a lot of people on your own without dying. Beating good players in small scale fights. So I am speaking in terms of, if you push your skills to the highest limit you can in PVP, that is when you will find how difficult it can really be compared to a simple dungeon.

VaranisArano · November 2017

Doing Vet Dungeons is like doing a complicated, coordinated dance with 3 other people. If you all hit your marks and dance in time, you'll complete just fine. Good groups have the dance down pat. Some dungeons (DLC) have a harder dance than others.

Trials are an even more complicated, coordinated dance with 12 people. Like a synchronized swimming team or a marching band, its a bunch of people working together to form a seamless whole that is greater than the sum of its parts. The Boss dictates the steps of the dance, but ultimately, its a group performance of skill, talent, and training.

That's really, seriously, hard to do well.

PVP on the other hand, is more like competitive sports. There's an enemy team out there who's directly opposing your efforts, requiring tactics, strategy, counters, different plays, and being very reactive. There are elements that are very predictable, there are clear objectives (this isn't Calvinball), but there's a great deal of chance and unpredictability when the fight is actually joined.

Its figure skating vs hockey. No one denies that both take skill and being good at one can translate to becoming good at the other. But they aren't the same.

TheDoomsdayMonster · November 2017

Tannus15 wrote: »

Something this game does terribly is allow you to have 1 character you can take from PVP to PVE smoothly.

I disagree with that statement...

I have one build that I use at all times for all content...

Now granted, I have no desire to do Trials, but I have completed all other content with it...

As a result, I believe this game (with the myriad gear/ability combinations it allows) gives you the potential to build a character that can do both PvP and PvE well...

Its just up to you to find a combination that works...

I know I did, so I know it can be done...