Do away with racials?

dodgehopper_ESO · November 2017

Nyx2 wrote: »

It should definitely matter what race you pick, you want unique races not just in appearance but their abilities. However with everyone trying to min/max their effectiveness, the choices often get very limited and the racials are too strongly leaning into either magic or stamina builds. This is very different from the main game in which you can be anything you want. Things like potion effectiveness, specific resistances, increased damage by missing % of health would all be unique without forcing you too much in one playstyle.

There would need to be more thought put into all that than "lets remove all racials" and I would still keep the current racials at least in a nerfed form to give slight advantages to min/maxing.

I'd like to point out that it is also very different from the game that ESO use to be in its first year...

MythicEmperor · November 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I hate racial passives in games. It's even worse when classes are gender locked.

I would have liked to play as a dark skinned mage in this game. Can't do that if you plan to min-max.

Dark-skinned? How about Dunmer?

BuddyAces · November 2017

I agree big time. I play stam toons. There's no reason not to go Redguard unless you want to gimp yourself and why would you want to do that? The difference shouldn't be as noticeable as it is currently.

Beardimus · November 2017

Disagree. I think race should mean more not less.

Iccotak · November 2017

eh, nah. Doesn't fit Elder Scrolls to get rid of racials.

Tonturri · November 2017

I'd rather have all current racial passives become something we can pick on any character. Replace 'em with the flavor stuff - like the bonus exp to a certain skill tree, 1% more AP, swim speed/run speed (out of combat only if need be), etc.

I really dislike my cute Bosmer mage missing out on pretty hefty chunks of regen, max magicka and damage just because I can't stand how Altmer look.

MLGProPlayer · November 2017

MythicEmperor wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I hate racial passives in games. It's even worse when classes are gender locked.

I would have liked to play as a dark skinned mage in this game. Can't do that if you plan to min-max.

Dark-skinned? How about Dunmer?

They're silver/gray skinned. I'm talking black/brown.

Oakmontowls_ESO · November 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I hate racial passives in games. It's even worse when classes are gender locked.

I would have liked to play as a dark skinned mage in this game. Can't do that if you plan to min-max.

Dark-skinned? How about Dunmer?

They're silver/gray skinned. I'm talking black/brown.

Just have someone follow you around with the mud ball momento

idk · November 2017

lazerlaz wrote: »

The question is why? What is your thought process? Give me some more information before I answer

Exactly. I like that racial choices have an impact.

It is part of the play as you want which means we have actual choices. Glad Zos did not follow the boring way games like SWTOR handled race choice which is meaningless.

Tonturri · November 2017

idk wrote: »

lazerlaz wrote: »

The question is why? What is your thought process? Give me some more information before I answer

Exactly. I like that racial choices have an impact.

It is part of the play as you want which means we have actual choices. Glad Zos did not follow the boring way games like SWTOR handled race choice which is meaningless.

I'm all for there being extra passives we can choose to further customize our characters, and choosing one means you can't have any of the others. My beef is that these extra passives drastically change what my character looks like.

People (somewhere, sometime) keep going on about keeping PvE and PvP separate. I like to RP, so my character is a Bosmer. They're a caster in-character, so I gear them as a mage. I happen to like the magicka playstyle better than stamina the vast majority of the time. And yet, because of these things, I lose out on some pretty sweet bonuses in PvE and PvP content.

To put this into perspective, on a Bosmer vs. Altmer on my magicka build, I'd gain...I believe almost/around 4k magicka, 200-300 regen, and...some amount of damage. I can't really put an exact number on it and can't be bothered to go in game to test what my current force pulse numbers are, then increase it by 6% or whatever the passive is.

Those numbers could go down depending on my setup, but they could also go UP. In short, it's no small change.

I can't really go 'you're wrong and this is wrong and your opinion is wrong'. I see your point, as there are some parts of the game I feel should be choices that 'matter', and some people will probably disagree with me on those. In this case though, I don't see why you can't choose what were previously Altmer passives for your Altmer, and same for all your characters as appropriate, while I can choose those same passives on my Bosmer - you'll never even see 'em, and your Altmer has Altmer-ish passives.

zaria · November 2017

ThePrinceOfBargains wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Every race can do everything. Some are just a little better at it than others. I have seen orc mag dks absolutely obliterate people, and altmer rangers do the same. Every race can do everything effectively. Some just are specialists.

The problem is, most people don’t respect this. It’s annoying to deal with these people when playing a build that’s opposite of what’s expected of your race.

They have a point regardless. However good you are without the proper racials, you’d be even better with them. They need to do away with racials. They’re completely unnecessary and restrictive. Goes against what they wanted from OT.

I rather change them to work more like in the single player games, an starting bonus not an end game one, that is static bonuses, primarily on skills, you start an skill with an bonus, skill also level up faster. Attributes would be an fixed value say 500 more, this would be inflated by level scaling.
Keep the flavor ones like pickpocket and swimming, keep the resistances.

Its pretty weird that ESO who is an competitive multiplayer game makes race more important at high level than the single player game with difficulty slider swapping it around would be far more sensible.
System survived because of soft caps during beta.
And yes its mostly an annoyance and a proof on incompetence like no reply button for mail.

teiselaise · November 2017

I had huge problems once because I wanted to be a dps while being an argonian (before argonian rework).

Some of the most fun I've had in the game was building around it

Chilly-McFreeze · November 2017

ThePrinceOfBargains wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Every race can do everything. Some are just a little better at it than others. I have seen orc mag dks absolutely obliterate people, and altmer rangers do the same. Every race can do everything effectively. Some just are specialists.

The problem is, most people don’t respect this. It’s annoying to deal with these people when playing a build that’s opposite of what’s expected of your race.

They have a point regardless. However good you are without the proper racials, you’d be even better with them. They need to do away with racials. They’re completely unnecessary and restrictive. Goes against what they wanted from OT.

What do they wanted from OT? To cut build diversity or to make grouping/ socializing easier and streamline/ open up the zones?

Not everything has to be the exact same. If you argue about "being better with xyz" you simply chase the meta, a theoretical best. If you go all the way with this argument you also have to say that you are better with set x than set y, with classes being better at some roles than others, skills being more effective, build performing better and that there is no use in running anything else because "you would be better with the meta". So make everything exactly the same so nobody feels in the disadvantage?

Seems like an clash of concepts.

I for one enjoy my dunmer dot build stam sorc in pvp. Why? Because it is fun, because it adds bonus to things you wouldn't consider optimal - something that is taken away when you further "dumb down" the build process by deleting a whole layer of it. Someone mentioned swtor - a game that showed what dumbing down builds could bring.

theher0not · November 2017

Remove racials, add a "trait" system. (it could use a better name but still)

The trait system would have multiple packs of passives that the player could choose from, one representing each current racial skill line. You'd only be able to have one line at once but there would be a way to respec in case you want another line.

That way people who want racials to be bound to one race play that with the specialisation that is equivalent to their current racials and the rest of us can choose the race we like the most.

edit: any game design that forces one to choose between cosmetics and power is bad IMHO.

Wrubius_Coronaria · November 2017

Cladius30 wrote: »

What does everyone think with the posibility of getting rid of racials or just changing them in to things that don't effect your class choice or performance?

It could be nice. Put all racial passives in a skill tree and give us the choice to choose what we want when we are leveling.

Instead of what we have currently (no choices), add severals options for each level of racial passives.

Jade1986 · November 2017

lazerlaz wrote: »

Im an arognian nightblade. Have been for a couple years. Majority of the time solo or duo pvp and Grand Overlord on one of them. (Ya I got more than one Argonian nb lol). Take that information as you want but if you know how to play this game well enough your racials should not make or break you. Nightblade is known for dps for pvp and Argonian does NOT compliment dps increase. Shouldn't, and doesn't, matter. Just my experience.

Exactly. People get too caught up in " being the very best, LIKE NO ONE EVER WAAAAAAAS, Poke....."

I mean....you get my point.

TheShadowScout · November 2017

Cladius30 wrote: »

What does everyone think with the posibility of getting rid of racials or just changing them in to things that don't effect your class choice or performance?

Doing aways with them?
NO!
This is the elder scrolls background, races being different is part of that.

Changing them so they don't affect performance?
NO!
Races having their distinct advantages in some fields is part of the TES lore as well.

Changing them so the performance bonus is not that big a deal once you hit endgame?
YES!
I really wish the racial passives were not as "must have" for certain builds. I would love to see them in ways that give you a leg up in the start, but are not that important at the end. I would love to see more balanced...
...heck, I personally would -love- to see a diminishing returns for attributes (softcaps!), and the racial boni just letting people reach this peak sooner. Which incidentally would make hybrid builds great again as well.

dodgehopper_ESO · November 2017

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Cladius30 wrote: »

What does everyone think with the posibility of getting rid of racials or just changing them in to things that don't effect your class choice or performance?

Doing aways with them?
NO!
This is the elder scrolls background, races being different is part of that.

Changing them so they don't affect performance?
NO!
Races having their distinct advantages in some fields is part of the TES lore as well.

Changing them so the performance bonus is not that big a deal once you hit endgame?
YES!
I really wish the racial passives were not as "must have" for certain builds. I would love to see them in ways that give you a leg up in the start, but are not that important at the end. I would love to see more balanced...
...heck, I personally would -love- to see a diminishing returns for attributes (softcaps!), and the racial boni just letting people reach this peak sooner. Which incidentally would make hybrid builds great again as well.

We can dream.

monktoasty · November 2017

It be better to be tied to a constellation sign..you can pick any race but the bonus you get is based off if you choose the Mahe or thief signs etc

JWKe · November 2017

Racials is the very definition of TES. Removing Racials is like removing 1st Person.

Jade1986 · November 2017

monktoasty wrote: »

It be better to be tied to a constellation sign..you can pick any race but the bonus you get is based off if you choose the Mahe or thief signs etc

I think that should be in addition to the racials we already have.

Doctordarkspawn · November 2017

Smepic wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Personally, and this is a gripe I've allways had with elder scrolls games, I'd like to pick my racials.

Come on, some characters just come from another culture. Not every Khajiit is born in Elsweyr.

@Doctordarkspawn

I agree. My character is a Redguard and a mage, and I miss out on good stats. The problem is that resources like stamina and magicka affect damage and healing, whereas in the singleplayer games they don't. Either let us choose racial passives, or make them not affect combat. I prefer the latter.

Hell, I'd love to be able to choose other racials in the singleplayer games, but apparently that's so hardwired into the framework modders can tchange it.

CardboardedBox · November 2017

There should be an option to choose what passives you want to give your character from the list of them.

Like, it's weird how every race can play any role in the lore and npcs (such as orsinium having orc mages etc etc), yet players are funneled into specific roles.

newtinmpls · November 2017

No

iiYuki · November 2017

I like them, the idea that a high elf will make a better magicka sorcerer than a orc makes sense, a wood elf would be better with a bow or an argonian can swim significantly faster.
I hate how most MMO's just give a lame racial ability usually on an insanely high cooldown that doesn't make it to your ability bar most of the time or a *** 1% passive or something else pointless.

crjs1 · November 2017

Racial passives must stay! It is is one of the few areas of meaningful choice in the game and race has always been important in TES lore. Anyway any race can already play any role the passives really don’t make a huge difference - there is a argument there should be more racial passives not less, they add good flavour.

cmetzger93 · November 2017

I would like it if they removed racials and replaced them with a system where you choose what star you were born under and you get a bonus according to that. Similar to mundus stones but it cannot be changed.

emilyhyoyeon · November 2017

I don't want to remove racials but rather rework them in ways that other people have suggested

Katahdin · November 2017

No

MehrunesFlagon · November 2017

Just leave them as is.No need for nerf due to rp purposes.