Maintenance for the week of September 1:
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 2, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 3, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 3, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 2, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 3, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 3, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
Do you think the EA star wars battlefront loot crate crisis will affect other games including ESO?
Bigevilpeter
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
✭✭
I'm sure most of you heard about the loot crate p2w outrage with star wars battlefront II. EA has now remove all real money transaction and is working on adjusting the loot crate system.
The outrage was so big that governments like Belgium and Hawaii now are investigating the gambling part about loot crates and is considering laws against it. It seems like a matter of time before other governments follow.
I'm glad this is happening since all games now were starting to use this system including ESO because it takes advantage of people's gambling addictions. It doesnt have to be p2w to be gambling also so even if it is cosmetic like ESO it will still be affected by gambling laws.
What do you guys think about this issue? do you think this will affect ESO?
Edited by Bigevilpeter on November 22, 2017 11:47AM The outrage was so big that governments like Belgium and Hawaii now are investigating the gambling part about loot crates and is considering laws against it. It seems like a matter of time before other governments follow.
I'm glad this is happening since all games now were starting to use this system including ESO because it takes advantage of people's gambling addictions. It doesnt have to be p2w to be gambling also so even if it is cosmetic like ESO it will still be affected by gambling laws.
What do you guys think about this issue? do you think this will affect ESO?
7
-
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Since Zenimax is headquartered in the U.S. they run off U.S. law, or...well I hardly understand most of that bull, but I highly doubt the Courts here would make the same ruling.
Then again, Paying real Cash into a prize system that runs off a random number generator is practically Gambling, and Gambling by Law has an age restriction. So every Minor that plays ESO and buys some Crown Crates is technically breaking the Law.CP2,000 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!7 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Already a large thread on it: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/381928/so-about-those-crown-crates-in-light-of-belgiums-ruling-that-they-are-gambling@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."3 -
Bigevilpeter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Since Zenimax is headquartered in the U.S. they run off U.S. law, or...well I hardly understand most of that bull, but I highly doubt the Courts here would make the same ruling.
Then again, Paying real Cash into a prize system that runs off a random number generator is practically Gambling, and Gambling by Law has an age restriction. So every Minor that plays ESO and buys some Crown Crates is technically breaking the Law.
US courts wouldnt have to make the same ruling, but the developers wouldnt want their games banned in other countries, so they might want to adopt new strategiesEdited by Bigevilpeter on November 22, 2017 11:57AM5 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Since Zenimax is headquartered in the U.S. they run off U.S. law, or...well I hardly understand most of that bull, but I highly doubt the Courts here would make the same ruling.
Then again, Paying real Cash into a prize system that runs off a random number generator is practically Gambling, and Gambling by Law has an age restriction. So every Minor that plays ESO and buys some Crown Crates is technically breaking the Law.
There's a lot of legal gray area. Most of it, comes from where in the US the ruling comes from. Some states are more sympathetic than others. So much so that some people establish they're legal expertese in a certain state so they can run it, in that state.
Even without that: Most of that is applying to casino games and it is notoriously hard to prove video games violate it considering there has been no ruling on whether or not any of these constitute those laws.
But if a ruling goes through, and it affects the US? Zenimax would be bound to change it's model.
But as others have said, they might make the change anyway. The game is still sold to these places, if it wants to retain that playerbase, it -will- need to change it's tune. It's just easier.
One final piece though: The real kicker is that if Disney didn't kill the program (It was originally them who pressured EA into leaving it) We might not be seeing this.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on November 22, 2017 12:47PM0 -
TelvanniWizard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I hope Zos gets affected by this. We could finally be free of scam crates, being able to buy plainly what we want!27 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TelvanniWizard wrote: »I hope Zos gets affected by this. We could finally be free of scam crates, being able to buy plainly what we want!
I'd love it. I'd love if the tide of hate for this practice in the industry forces these games to abandon this idiotic model and start giving people what they want instead of trying to sell them gamble crates.15 -
Jimmy✭✭✭✭✭I am a fan of ZOS and everything they have done with ESO.... BUT.... I think their crown crates is a despicable, cowardly, scummish cash grab that is inexcusable and I hope they get busted for providing gambling for real life money in their video game. Because that is what it is, gambling. Shame on your ZOS for blatantly taking advantage, and in a way, abusing your gamers.
Besides that, keep up the good work
18 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »Since Zenimax is headquartered in the U.S. they run off U.S. law, or...well I hardly understand most of that bull, but I highly doubt the Courts here would make the same ruling.
Then again, Paying real Cash into a prize system that runs off a random number generator is practically Gambling, and Gambling by Law has an age restriction. So every Minor that plays ESO and buys some Crown Crates is technically breaking the Law.
US courts wouldnt have to make the same ruling, but the developers wouldnt want their games banned in other countries, so they might want to adopt new strategies
Pretty much this. Even temporary loss of customers from like rest of the world would cause almost for sure death of ESO. I hope this will change. Id preffer 1kk times more system where you could buy mounts for like 5k crowns in some period of time (2 months or smth like that) and the more uniqe ones for 10-15k crowns. In general, make all the stuff cost more crowns but remove the randomness element.Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge1 -
AlienSlof✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TelvanniWizard wrote: »I hope Zos gets affected by this. We could finally be free of scam crates, being able to buy plainly what we want!
^ This. ^
The sooner the better, then we can go back to direct purchase.RIP Atherton, my beautiful little gentle friend. I will miss you forever. Without you I am a hollow shell.12 -
BloodWolfe✭✭✭✭I hope this does come this way and affect ALL games with these loot/gamble/scam crates/boxes! I HATE this crap and refuse to ever support it!1 -
monktoasty✭✭✭✭✭Loot crates really not a bad idea..many people find it enjoyable..the actual problem is the atrocious exploitative chances to get anything worth while. Less than 1 percent chance for a mount? That's rude and evil.
There's an app game where to get certain characters the chance is .003%...wtf
If they removed a lot of the WORTHLESS junk and made the crates fun with good drops..it be not so bad and no one would have complained to get this such a large media and government attention.
But all these companies let greed and wicked motives get in the way of fairness and fun and I hope they all suffer for it to a certain degree
Concerning ea..it got so much hate not even because of the loot boxes but because how they engineered the game to basically suck unless you buy the crates..that's not how microtransactions should be...the game itself should not purposefully be gimped to ruin your time and fun unless you buy stuff.
I'll give credit to zos for keeping things non pay to win but at the same time..they do shady stuff like make certain furniture plans nearly impossible to find in game so you just give up and buy it from crowns.
Edited by monktoasty on November 22, 2017 2:13PM6 -
nnargun✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »TelvanniWizard wrote: »I hope Zos gets affected by this. We could finally be free of scam crates, being able to buy plainly what we want!
I'd love it. I'd love if the tide of hate for this practice in the industry forces these games to abandon this idiotic model and start giving people what they want instead of trying to sell them gamble crates.
The price tags for the special mounts etc would be crazy because it has to reflect the actual drop rate as it is right now. So for example let's say there is 0.1 % chance to get the mount you want from a crate that costs 1 Euro, the mount would then have to cost 1000 Euro in order for ZOS to make the same amount of money on it. People understand these horrendous absolute amounts very well and won't buy while it seems like they don't when it's hidden behind crates and rng. Now this is extremely simplified as not everybody is trying to get that one specific amount or won't continue buying until the mount finally drops but still. If the mounts and other stuff cost what they actually cost I think many people would be pretty shocked and ZOS pretty poor.Edited by nnargun on November 22, 2017 2:26PM[PC EU][GERMAN][ENGLISH][730~ CP]
Flawless Conquerer - vHoF HM - vAS+1 - vMoL - vCR
the Kuhn - Dunmer - MagNB
Samjuel-EL - Orc - StamNB
Son Hala - Altmer - MagSorc
Draxyl - Argonian - Warden3 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Since Zenimax is headquartered in the U.S. they run off U.S. law, or...well I hardly understand most of that bull, but I highly doubt the Courts here would make the same ruling.
Then again, Paying real Cash into a prize system that runs off a random number generator is practically Gambling, and Gambling by Law has an age restriction. So every Minor that plays ESO and buys some Crown Crates is technically breaking the Law.
I wouldnt be so quick to make that judgement . we have some very conservative people in our administration. i personaly think the gambling crates in all games is a crock of crap . its a predatory practice , i remember when MMO's were about actually playing the game to aquire rare things in the game. then again ESO lacks meaningful content so i dont know where they would put all this garbage that drops out of the crates anyhow.3 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Regulation isn't going to fix what's wrong with gaming. The main problem is a large audience that is tolerant of these business practices. Television and Radio were largely ruined for the same reason.
This is why buying a new game is like signing up for a mobile phone package with extras and bundles and subscriptions. The people who play games now used to pay $10 for ringtones. It's probably going to get worse.7 -
Khrogo✭✭✭Since Zenimax is headquartered in the U.S. they run off U.S. law, or...well I hardly understand most of that bull, but I highly doubt the Courts here would make the same ruling.
Then again, Paying real Cash into a prize system that runs off a random number generator is practically Gambling, and Gambling by Law has an age restriction. So every Minor that plays ESO and buys some Crown Crates is technically breaking the Law.
Legally, that is not the strictly true. Generally, the jurisdiction is determined by the location of the server, where the data is served, rather then the location of the entity serving the data.
Also, while I completely agree that Crown Crates are gambling in disguise, to be subject to the law, this can not be “practically” the case, it must be actually so. As you so rightly pointed out, this affords no protection to minors exposed to in-game purchases, and exactly what the publisher wants.1 -
R4TTIUS✭✭✭Since Zenimax is headquartered in the U.S. they run off U.S. law, or...well I hardly understand most of that bull, but I highly doubt the Courts here would make the same ruling.
Then again, Paying real Cash into a prize system that runs off a random number generator is practically Gambling, and Gambling by Law has an age restriction. So every Minor that plays ESO and buys some Crown Crates is technically breaking the Law.
They are an American company that doesn't mean they solely work off of American laws, If they release a game in the EU they have to follow EU sanctioned regulation, if they release in China they have to follow china's regulation etc u get what I mean, only in America will they have to follow US regulations.3 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭Since Zenimax is headquartered in the U.S. they run off U.S. law, or...well I hardly understand most of that bull, but I highly doubt the Courts here would make the same ruling.
Then again, Paying real Cash into a prize system that runs off a random number generator is practically Gambling, and Gambling by Law has an age restriction. So every Minor that plays ESO and buys some Crown Crates is technically breaking the Law.
They are an American company that doesn't mean they solely work off of American laws, If they release a game in the EU they have to follow EU sanctioned regulation, if they release in China they have to follow china's regulation etc u get what I mean, only in America will they have to follow US regulations.
also, dont they have an EU server ?1 -
R4TTIUS✭✭✭StackonClown wrote: »Since Zenimax is headquartered in the U.S. they run off U.S. law, or...well I hardly understand most of that bull, but I highly doubt the Courts here would make the same ruling.
Then again, Paying real Cash into a prize system that runs off a random number generator is practically Gambling, and Gambling by Law has an age restriction. So every Minor that plays ESO and buys some Crown Crates is technically breaking the Law.
They are an American company that doesn't mean they solely work off of American laws, If they release a game in the EU they have to follow EU sanctioned regulation, if they release in China they have to follow china's regulation etc u get what I mean, only in America will they have to follow US regulations.
also, dont they have an EU server ?
Yes they have multiple servers in different country's that will all have different restrictions in a sense and follow the laws of the country/continent they are in.1 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭StackonClown wrote: »Since Zenimax is headquartered in the U.S. they run off U.S. law, or...well I hardly understand most of that bull, but I highly doubt the Courts here would make the same ruling.
Then again, Paying real Cash into a prize system that runs off a random number generator is practically Gambling, and Gambling by Law has an age restriction. So every Minor that plays ESO and buys some Crown Crates is technically breaking the Law.
They are an American company that doesn't mean they solely work off of American laws, If they release a game in the EU they have to follow EU sanctioned regulation, if they release in China they have to follow china's regulation etc u get what I mean, only in America will they have to follow US regulations.
also, dont they have an EU server ?
Yes they have multiple servers in different country's that will all have different restrictions in a sense and follow the laws of the country/continent they are in.
ok so lets see how the eu ruling affects the eu server?0 -
R4TTIUS✭✭✭StackonClown wrote: »StackonClown wrote: »Since Zenimax is headquartered in the U.S. they run off U.S. law, or...well I hardly understand most of that bull, but I highly doubt the Courts here would make the same ruling.
Then again, Paying real Cash into a prize system that runs off a random number generator is practically Gambling, and Gambling by Law has an age restriction. So every Minor that plays ESO and buys some Crown Crates is technically breaking the Law.
They are an American company that doesn't mean they solely work off of American laws, If they release a game in the EU they have to follow EU sanctioned regulation, if they release in China they have to follow china's regulation etc u get what I mean, only in America will they have to follow US regulations.
also, dont they have an EU server ?
Yes they have multiple servers in different country's that will all have different restrictions in a sense and follow the laws of the country/continent they are in.
ok so lets see how the eu ruling affects the eu server?
Yes basically it would work that if EU banned loot boxes then they would not be allowed to be sold in EU but would be able to be sold in China Japan and USA for instance, obviously depending on what rulings happen there aswell, if EU and America both vote to sanction I imagine that's when they have to overhaul.0 -
mirta000b16_ESO✭✭✭✭Regulation isn't going to fix what's wrong with gaming. The main problem is a large audience that is tolerant of these business practices. Television and Radio were largely ruined for the same reason.
This is why buying a new game is like signing up for a mobile phone package with extras and bundles and subscriptions. The people who play games now used to pay $10 for ringtones. It's probably going to get worse.
A lot of people were tolerant of a lot of practices during history, simply because they thought they had no choice. If minimum wage was not set by law and regulated, plenty would work for peanuts as long as they would have some sort of job. That's why regulations are made in the first place.5 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭StackonClown wrote: »StackonClown wrote: »Since Zenimax is headquartered in the U.S. they run off U.S. law, or...well I hardly understand most of that bull, but I highly doubt the Courts here would make the same ruling.
Then again, Paying real Cash into a prize system that runs off a random number generator is practically Gambling, and Gambling by Law has an age restriction. So every Minor that plays ESO and buys some Crown Crates is technically breaking the Law.
They are an American company that doesn't mean they solely work off of American laws, If they release a game in the EU they have to follow EU sanctioned regulation, if they release in China they have to follow china's regulation etc u get what I mean, only in America will they have to follow US regulations.
also, dont they have an EU server ?
Yes they have multiple servers in different country's that will all have different restrictions in a sense and follow the laws of the country/continent they are in.
ok so lets see how the eu ruling affects the eu server?
Yes basically it would work that if EU banned loot boxes then they would not be allowed to be sold in EU but would be able to be sold in China Japan and USA for instance, obviously depending on what rulings happen there aswell, if EU and America both vote to sanction I imagine that's when they have to overhaul.
then i hope the EU bring it on!1 -
Zorvan✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
One final piece though: The real kicker is that if Disney didn't kill the program (It was originally them who pressured EA into leaving it) We might not be seeing this.
EA had to learn the hard way what others have learned over the decades: noone *** with The Mouse.I've been muted since November 2017 because of the whiny crybabies on this forum and the liberal ZOS employees coddling them.2 -
nightstrike✭✭✭✭✭The legal problems with these crates are two fold. First, they avoid being classified as gambling via a loophole whereby they declare the contents of the crates and the crowns spent to have literally zero intrinsic value. They justify this because the items and the "currency" don't exist outside of the ESO ecosystem. The US gambling laws are pretty clear on this interpretation. Second, they don't publish the chances to win each specific item. If they ever were classified as real gambling, they would be required by law to do this.
I personally think that if they voluntarily did that last one and were transparent about the drop rates, there would not be as much angst toward this practice.
The only saving grace here is that we can easily let wealthy people fund the game's development by buying this silliness without restricting useful content behind impossibly high pay walls.Warning: This signature is tiny!0 -
umagon✭✭✭✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »I'm sure most of you heard about the loot crate p2w outrage with star wars battlefront II. EA has now remove all real money transaction and is working on adjusting the loot crate system.
The outrage was so big that governments like Belgium and Hawaii now are investigating the gambling part about loot crates and is considering laws against it. It seems like a matter of time before other governments follow.
I'm glad this is happening since all games now were starting to use this system including ESO because it takes advantage of people's gambling addictions. It doesnt have to be p2w to be gambling also so even if it is cosmetic like ESO it will still be affected by gambling laws.
What do you guys think about this issue? do you think this will affect ESO?
I hope it does. I want video games to return back to when it was about making a game with great lore, environments, unique game play mechanics, and actual difficulty. This era of “games of chance” and psychological conditioning can die in a fire.4 -
Jarryzzt✭✭✭✭The sky.
Isn't.
Falling.
In Belgium, you had one government minister make a press statement. Likely to create the appearance of him doing something (to defend children from...something). Posing in front of cameras, in other words.
In Hawaii, I believe it's a state legislator, not even a congressman. But even if it were one congressman, again, posing in front of cameras.
Call me when there is a) an actual law introduced anywhere, never mind passed; or b) we're not talking about one politician posing in front of cameras (e.g. if a major political party made banning loot boxes part of its election manifesto or something). Until then - this is no-news.
I'm not even mentioning the fact that whatever happens in Belgium in this case would likely stay in Belgium because a) Britain is all for online gambling; b) the US doesn't care; and c) the EU is too bureaucratic and fractious to get any single Belgian law or regulation adopted at the union level. Because we're miles, leagues, entire parsecs away from anything actually happening beyond a single politician somewhere posing in front of cameras for 10 seconds.5 -
xenowarrior92eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Since Zenimax is headquartered in the U.S. they run off U.S. law, or...well I hardly understand most of that bull, but I highly doubt the Courts here would make the same ruling.
Then again, Paying real Cash into a prize system that runs off a random number generator is practically Gambling, and Gambling by Law has an age restriction. So every Minor that plays ESO and buys some Crown Crates is technically breaking the Law.
1 thing...I thought ESO is 18+ so what kids?1
