Veteran Bloodroot Forge Nigh Unpuggable

s7732425ub17_ESO · November 2017

Urza1234 wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Vet Forge is one of the only dungeons that actually requires the tank to have some skill. How many PUG tanks can hold aggro on the last boss when he splits into three forms and each one hits really hard? The dungeon is night and day based on the skill of the tank.

The DPS can usually self sustain or need no healing at all during certain bosses as long as they avoid red. Healer pretty much only needs to focus on the tank.

Yeah, that "as long as they can avoid red" part is the hard part, but honestly while I totally agree this dungeon is hardest on tank and healer, its harder for DPS imo than alot of others.
A lot of DPS I dont think are aware when a shalk targets them with fireball, that was one of the hardest things I had to heal through, basically had to either Ult of spend half my mana every time. Cleanse did not appear to work on this at all.

Getting a tank to reliably plug the geysers was another big issue, nothing the DPS can do about that.

They also need to be extremely fast on adds. This is both in terms of reaction speed and pure DPS. I never had an even slightly successful group with less than 25k dps, the adds are just too dangerous, especially if one of the DPS makes a mistake and steps in Red. Mainly this includes the plants and the stone atronachs. I can tell you, on Galchobhar I got so desperate that I was slotting Javelin to stun the stone atronachs, because the atronachs were not going down fast enough, and even if the tank had all the mechanics down pat the stone atronach's AoE was going right through their block and deleting them and the whole group.

Getting hit by a fireball is the DPS's fault- a healer isn't going to be able to do anything about that. The healer does have to worry about the tank just standing there and taking the fireballs though, which is why all the healing needs to be focused on the tank.

I do admit that the stone atros can get very overwhelming with low DPS. But the dungeon as a whole was not designed for low DPS groups because many of the bosses have enrage DPS checks. It's the game's way of telling you that you are not good enough to complete this yet. You don't need to be able to sustain 30k DPS, but your puny 10k dps isn't going to cut it here.

Spacemonkey · November 2017

I think we kept wiping on the 4th.

(the Hagraven one with the poison plants and bear spawns?)

Tank has to pull Bear + block its heavy attack. thats pretty much it.
We never got past it because DPS couldnt locate flowers fast enough and kept dying to them + wolf and boar. They were doing ok damage wise, just couldnt locate the flowers. Especially when they spawned in the boss's brambles.

I feel like we might've gotten through it eventually. As tank I was mostly relying on my own heals and pulling Bear&Boss fine. But sooner or later healer/dps would get caught in poison from the plants and die and then created a domino effect and everyone wiped. (Me last admist multiple poison AoEs trying to block Bear and Hagraven's CCs)

Simply having those plants bigger could REALLY change everything on that boss.

Drummerx04 · November 2017

As a general rule, I find carrying a group much easier as a DPS as long as the tank can block and kinda hold things where they sort of need to be and the healer can keep him alive... the group will clear the dungeon.

It sucks playing as a healer or tank and taking and hour to clear content that normally takes 20 minutes.

Urza1234 · November 2017

idk wrote: »

The productive results that can come from OPs post is he would join a guild instead of pugging such new content.

It's great for the game to have content that is challenging and we can do something other than dps a target dummy and call it a dungeon boss.

we all know the will nerf it someday like they did ICP and WGT. Heck, I wouldn't pug either of those beforehand yet cleared it many times.

But t Zos should not nerf content because this guy is challenged running through it with pugs that haven't seen it before and may have area awareness issues and other things.

Again. Join a guild. No excuses.

Most guilds, tbh, are not fantastic. Literally everyone in the game is in a guild, so you arent magically going to find reliably better players willing to do dungeons in most guilds than in GF, quite the opposite I've found.

I'm in a number of guilds that do regularly clear vet trials with decent scores, but the problem is that these better-than-average players have better-things-to-do than run vBRF all day. Again no magical solution there.

IMO content like vBRF should not be nerfed, far from it. I think its excellent content, but I do think BRF needs an intermediate tier of difficulty. Pretty much all the other content found in GF, vet or not, is puggable. Consider for a second, isnt that the point of group finder? If a dungeon is most of the time uncompletable by a GF group, why does it exist in GF?
IMO at this point its pretty clear that all dungeons need 3 tiers of difficulty; normal, vet, and vet+. Most vet content is a cakewalk for players in CP160 gear, those dungeons need a harder level of difficulty like trials that you have to pre-make. Outliers like vBRF are considerably harder than other vet content, they basically need a intermediate tier so that they're at least completable by the players who would be using GF in the first place.

Runefang · November 2017

Tasear wrote: »

For final boss you can actually control where lava spawns in fact you see on sides... you can despoit there.

This dungeon sucks because we a general lack of skilled tanks in game.

Primarily because the game doesn't encourage tanks to be skilled, until it does. And because it rarely does it's easier to simply avoid that content. The game still needs to work on smoothing out the difficulty curve and also on how they get players to transition from the easier content to the harder stuff.

Honestly one of the best things for this game, in my opinion, would be to have BiS gear hidden behind the absolute hardest content. Some trial gear is already BiS so that's good, but the DLC dungeons simply need to have better gear drops. Force tanks into that content to get something like Ebon rather than having it all available in the easy dungeons.

Stinkyremy · November 2017

Well good thing then that you can skip 75% of the dungeon, 95% of it if your entire team uses invisibility potions.
It's RoM all over again, unforgiving mechs but so easy to speed through.

Qbiken · November 2017

Tasear wrote: »

For final boss you can actually control where lava spawns in fact you see on sides... you can despoit there.

This dungeon sucks because we have a general lack of skilled tanks in game.

More or less, the location of those lava pools are semi-random at best :P

Tyrion87 · November 2017

I disagree so much. 95% of this game is already too easy, even group content became solo friendly. In an MMO...

Such threads always (and only) lead to dungeons nerfs. Yet, we haven't got any third tier of difficulty or other compensation for these nerfs.

And even if there was such third tier of difficulty, other people would come to this forum and start complaining that it's unpuggable and cannot be completed by them...

Right now, with dungeons getting easier and easier, more skilled players are punished for playing well.

Marabornwingrion · November 2017

Tyrion87 wrote: »

I disagree so much. 95% of this game is already too easy, even group content became solo friendly. In an MMO...

Such threads always (and only) lead to dungeons nerfs. Yet, we haven't got any third tier of difficulty or other compensation for these nerfs.

And even if there was such third tier of difficulty, other people would come to this forum and start complaining that it's unpuggable and cannot be completed by them...

Right now, with dungeons getting easier and easier, more skilled players are punished for playing well.

100% Agree.

greylox · November 2017

I never understand why people like 'mechanics', they get in the way of playing the game. If they have to have them, at least have a pop up before the boss explaining them.

People seem to love wasting time.

+1 we need a third tier.

TheNightflame · November 2017

greylox wrote: »

I never understand why people like 'mechanics', they get in the way of playing the game. If they have to have them, at least have a pop up before the boss explaining them.

People seem to love wasting time.

+1 we need a third tier.

I completely disagree, mechanics are what keep the game fun. For me, doing the mechanics well is playing the game, not fulfilling my role as a healer or dps, that stuff happens anyways. As soon as you play you're role well, the only thing stopping you from stagnating is having mechanics to play with and learn.

Urza1234 · November 2017

Tyrion87 wrote: »

I disagree so much. 95% of this game is already too easy, even group content became solo friendly. In an MMO...

Such threads always (and only) lead to dungeons nerfs. Yet, we haven't got any third tier of difficulty or other compensation for these nerfs.

And even if there was such third tier of difficulty, other people would come to this forum and start complaining that it's unpuggable and cannot be completed by them...

Right now, with dungeons getting easier and easier, more skilled players are punished for playing well.

Do people complain that they cant complete vDSA from the groupfinder? No? Probably because you cant queue for vDSA or other trials in that way.

If you wanted a 3rd tier of difficulty that wasnt puggable then dont put it in the groupfinder. Honestly I see no reason not to maintain that conviction; if it is in groupfinder it should be completable by a groupfinder group. Otherwise what is the point of groupfinder? May as well delete it out of the interface if it doesnt do its job.

Alternatively, with dungeons like vBRF you could split the dungeon into smaller chunks in groupfinder. A huge part of the problem with vBRF isnt that its hard, its that its too hard for pugs to learn and complete in less than 3 hours.

raj72616a · November 2017

in addition to the difficulty, WGT gives SPC, ICP gives Leeching Plate, CoS gives veli helm.

what do the new dungeons give anyway?

Jawasa · November 2017

Bloodroot gives earthgore but it's only needed for pvp. But in group play it's mandatory.

Mureel · November 2017

Urza1234 wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Vet Forge is one of the only dungeons that actually requires the tank to have some skill. How many PUG tanks can hold aggro on the last boss when he splits into three forms and each one hits really hard? The dungeon is night and day based on the skill of the tank.

The DPS can usually self sustain or need no healing at all during certain bosses as long as they avoid red. Healer pretty much only needs to focus on the tank.

Yeah, that "as long as they can avoid red" part is the hard part, but honestly while I totally agree this dungeon is hardest on tank and healer, its harder for DPS imo than alot of others.
A lot of DPS I dont think are aware when a shalk targets them with fireball, that was one of the hardest things I had to heal through, basically had to either Ult of spend half my mana every time. Cleanse did not appear to work on this at all.

Getting a tank to reliably plug the geysers was another big issue, nothing the DPS can do about that.

@Urza1234 They are doing the shalk thing wrong.

When you get the shalk debuff, YOU CAN SEE IT BECAUSE THE FRAME OF YOUR SCREEN GOES ORANGEY-RED, you run off the island onto one of the rocks, (you can actually watch the circle thing go into the lava if you pay attention), and back on land.

That's how you cleanse it. Easy peasy and no extra healing or shielding necessary.

Earlier just before that boss, the game tries to teach you this and there are the first shalks and a small lava pool near. Same as how the previous boss shows you to focus stone atros.

Armatesz · November 2017

Mureel wrote: »

Urza1234 wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Vet Forge is one of the only dungeons that actually requires the tank to have some skill. How many PUG tanks can hold aggro on the last boss when he splits into three forms and each one hits really hard? The dungeon is night and day based on the skill of the tank.

The DPS can usually self sustain or need no healing at all during certain bosses as long as they avoid red. Healer pretty much only needs to focus on the tank.

Yeah, that "as long as they can avoid red" part is the hard part, but honestly while I totally agree this dungeon is hardest on tank and healer, its harder for DPS imo than alot of others.
A lot of DPS I dont think are aware when a shalk targets them with fireball, that was one of the hardest things I had to heal through, basically had to either Ult of spend half my mana every time. Cleanse did not appear to work on this at all.

Getting a tank to reliably plug the geysers was another big issue, nothing the DPS can do about that.

@Urza1234 They are doing the shalk thing wrong.

When you get the shalk debuff, YOU CAN SEE IT BECAUSE THE FRAME OF YOUR SCREEN GOES ORANGEY-RED, you run off the island onto one of the rocks, (you can actually watch the circle thing go into the lava if you pay attention), and back on land.

That's how you cleanse it. Easy peasy and no extra healing or shielding necessary.

Earlier just before that boss, the game tries to teach you this and there are the first shalks and a small lava pool near. Same as how the previous boss shows you to focus stone atros.

For the longest I never knew about that and I've even gone with one group where we got to the final boss area right before two had to go to work. Still never finished this vet dungeon because of this and still could not find a group capable of doing this.

To be fairly honestly I don't like people being stressed over by this dungeon and have often called this one of the most difficult dungeon to do on veteran.

Urza1234 · November 2017

Mureel wrote: »

Urza1234 wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Vet Forge is one of the only dungeons that actually requires the tank to have some skill. How many PUG tanks can hold aggro on the last boss when he splits into three forms and each one hits really hard? The dungeon is night and day based on the skill of the tank.

The DPS can usually self sustain or need no healing at all during certain bosses as long as they avoid red. Healer pretty much only needs to focus on the tank.

Yeah, that "as long as they can avoid red" part is the hard part, but honestly while I totally agree this dungeon is hardest on tank and healer, its harder for DPS imo than alot of others.
A lot of DPS I dont think are aware when a shalk targets them with fireball, that was one of the hardest things I had to heal through, basically had to either Ult of spend half my mana every time. Cleanse did not appear to work on this at all.

Getting a tank to reliably plug the geysers was another big issue, nothing the DPS can do about that.

@Urza1234 They are doing the shalk thing wrong.

When you get the shalk debuff, YOU CAN SEE IT BECAUSE THE FRAME OF YOUR SCREEN GOES ORANGEY-RED, you run off the island onto one of the rocks, (you can actually watch the circle thing go into the lava if you pay attention), and back on land.

That's how you cleanse it. Easy peasy and no extra healing or shielding necessary.

Earlier just before that boss, the game tries to teach you this and there are the first shalks and a small lava pool near. Same as how the previous boss shows you to focus stone atros.

Yeah, I was aware of that, most DPS are not very good about it though even if they do know about it. Not that I'm particularly bothered by that fact. I always explain that mechanic but people arent perfect.

Cage_Lizardman · November 2017

So tried pugging this on my new warden tank, and it worked with the second group, after several wipes that were mostly my fault. I would like to apologize to any tank I may have insulted for not being able to keep the things taunted, that was really quite hard.

Then I tried a couple times with my sorc, and nope, nope, nope. Never doing less than 60% dps, tank that doesn't know to stand in volcanoes or english, tank that refuses to play or leave group and wants us to kick him so he doesn't get a timer, cp160 dd in pvp gear who refuses to accept he has no chance, and once we kick him the stupid dungeon finder sends him right back in... PUG lyfe eh?

Feanor · November 2017

If the dungeons weren’t on group finder I’m sure people would then complain about not being able to get a group for it.

shaielzafine · November 2017

I tried this dungeon today on vet with randoms from dungeon finder. This was with a helpful person who knew the dungeon well, giving directions which we were following. The mechanics are learnable & people were patient but it was still difficult. Compared to typical random dungeons it's asking a lot from people from group finder that don't have voice comms. It took so long, our tank finally quit around the minotaur boss part. We were probably 1.5-2 hours in. Everyone was pretty much done & tired so we didn't complete it. The repairs costed 1,400 gold. It would be fine if it dropped anything good but it's so much wasted time. The chance for getting earthgore helm is only if you defeat the final boss on veteran mode. It's a good helm for PVP but honestly it's not absolutely necessary. So, I can see why most people leave as soon as this dungeon shows on the finder, and people who play are not aware what to do. I agree it should be in its own category / tier 3 or something.