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Soul Assault needs counterplay
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't think they need to be as good as shields. And I don't think Soul Assault needs to be nerfed.
I really think crit resistance not only makes sense thematically but would provide the ability to stack more into resistance for survival, or can then move away from impen into other means of survival.
I can see the freedom of using sturdy + well fitted because I get an inherent 1000-ish impen for wearing medium.0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »I don't think they need to be as good as shields. And I don't think Soul Assault needs to be nerfed.
I really think crit resistance not only makes sense thematically but would provide the ability to stack more into resistance for survival, or can then move away from impen into other means of survival.
I can see the freedom of using sturdy + well fitted because I get an inherent 1000-ish impen for wearing medium.
Crit resistance is a great idea actually. Or damage reduction after being crit. Kinda like a, fool me once kinda thing.2 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭As a now medium armor stamina player. Most of my deaths still comes from stam gankblades who can instantly kill me with 6 or more abilities due to lag. Also as a stamina player in Cyrodiil I have yet been killed in 1v1 or 1v2 engagements where players use soul assault on me. So I'm just going to chalk this upto either Non CP campaign life, or players that need to understand proper game mechanics and builds in order to survive soul assault.
It is really one of the less effective ways to kill my, stamplar, my stamden, my stamsorc, and my stamblade. I also wear 2 heavy and 5 medium with a 1 out of 2 monster helm setup. Just sayin is all.3 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Once again the cry babies start on the nerfs.
They never go with "buff this for counter play" its always the tears and the nerf, and zos listens. These are the people who have made ESO pvp a zergging pug fest.
Yes I'm such a cry baby because all it requires to win a fight against a medium armor player is to activate your Soul Assault. God forbid we make it so some intelligence is required to be victorious.
How do you think Magicka builds feel about Shuffle?
Its frustrating as hell gap closing a Shuffle user (and them passively dodging it and its CC), and unloading Puncturing Sweeps on them only to have atleast 2 of the Sweeps fail to connect...
In the mean while, every single attack the Shuffle user uses against you lands flush...
The way I see it, we use Soul Assault to counter the cheesy gameplay Medium Armor users bring to the table...
Afterall, the best way to counter cheese is with cheese of your own...
Since when does shuffle kill magicka users? Shuffle and roll dodge are the main defensive mechanics of medium armor. Just because u find those mechanics frustrating for whatever reason even tho there are a million different things that go through dodge, it doesnt mean that you should have an "i win" button against them.
If you want to equate soul assault with anything then imagine an ability that kills ur templar in 3 seconds without u being able to do anything. And then you come here to talk about cheese.
Its truly astonishing how clueless some of you people are.7 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »As a now medium armor stamina player. Most of my deaths still comes from stam gankblades who can instantly kill me with 6 or more abilities due to lag. Also as a stamina player in Cyrodiil I have yet been killed in 1v1 or 1v2 engagements where players use soul assault on me. So I'm just going to chalk this upto either Non CP campaign life, or players that need to understand proper game mechanics and builds in order to survive soul assault.
It is really one of the less effective ways to kill my, stamplar, my stamden, my stamsorc, and my stamblade. I also wear 2 heavy and 5 medium with a 1 out of 2 monster helm setup. Just sayin is all.
So another words you main magicka, and you think stamblades are OP. Also who only plays one type? If you're a PvPer you really need to play as every class and type in the game. I flip between stamina and magicka depending on the class and mood.0 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »As a now medium armor stamina player. Most of my deaths still comes from stam gankblades who can instantly kill me with 6 or more abilities due to lag. Also as a stamina player in Cyrodiil I have yet been killed in 1v1 or 1v2 engagements where players use soul assault on me. So I'm just going to chalk this upto either Non CP campaign life, or players that need to understand proper game mechanics and builds in order to survive soul assault.
It is really one of the less effective ways to kill my, stamplar, my stamden, my stamsorc, and my stamblade. I also wear 2 heavy and 5 medium with a 1 out of 2 monster helm setup. Just sayin is all.
So another words you main magicka, and you think stamblades are OP. Also who only plays one type? If you're a PvPer you really need to play as every class and type in the game. I flip between stamina and magicka depending on the class and mood.
What no you totally misunderstood me. I once was magicka based. Then I've switched over to stamina playstyles. Now I'm a stamina based player because, between you and me. Stamina is much more powerful in PvP as someone with no PvP guild or friends to rely on.
My PoV was from my current play in Cyrodiil on my stamina based characters.0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »As a now medium armor stamina player. Most of my deaths still comes from stam gankblades who can instantly kill me with 6 or more abilities due to lag. Also as a stamina player in Cyrodiil I have yet been killed in 1v1 or 1v2 engagements where players use soul assault on me. So I'm just going to chalk this upto either Non CP campaign life, or players that need to understand proper game mechanics and builds in order to survive soul assault.
It is really one of the less effective ways to kill my, stamplar, my stamden, my stamsorc, and my stamblade. I also wear 2 heavy and 5 medium with a 1 out of 2 monster helm setup. Just sayin is all.
So another words you main magicka, and you think stamblades are OP. Also who only plays one type? If you're a PvPer you really need to play as every class and type in the game. I flip between stamina and magicka depending on the class and mood.
What no you totally misunderstood me. I once was magicka based. Then I've switched over to stamina playstyles. Now I'm a stamina based player because, between you and me. Stamina is much more powerful in PvP as someone with no PvP guild or friends to rely on.
My PoV was from my current play in Cyrodiil on my stamina based characters.
Fair enough. I find magicka to be stronger personally, but everyone has a right to their own opinion. Have you tried Shackle breaker on your mag characters? Easily one of the best sets in the game.0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Once again the cry babies start on the nerfs.
They never go with "buff this for counter play" its always the tears and the nerf, and zos listens. These are the people who have made ESO pvp a zergging pug fest.
Yes I'm such a cry baby because all it requires to win a fight against a medium armor player is to activate your Soul Assault. God forbid we make it so some intelligence is required to be victorious.
How do you think Magicka builds feel about Shuffle?
Its frustrating as hell gap closing a Shuffle user (and them passively dodging it and its CC), and unloading Puncturing Sweeps on them only to have atleast 2 of the Sweeps fail to connect...
In the mean while, every single attack the Shuffle user uses against you lands flush...
The way I see it, we use Soul Assault to counter the cheesy gameplay Medium Armor users bring to the table...
Afterall, the best way to counter cheese is with cheese of your own...
Since when does shuffle kill magicka users? Shuffle and roll dodge are the main defensive mechanics of medium armor. Just because u find those mechanics frustrating for whatever reason even tho there are a million different things that go through dodge, it doesnt mean that you should have an "i win" button against them.
If you want to equate soul assault with anything then imagine an ability that kills ur templar in 3 seconds without u being able to do anything. And then you come here to talk about cheese.
Its truly astonishing how clueless some of you people are.
Its not my fault that these medium armor builds are so heavily glass cannon...
You know the type; you see them everywhere:
4000+ weapon damage, barely have 20k health (and sometimes sub 20k health) even with Battle Spirit, all the while expecting to get away with being pure glass canon solely with Shuffle allowing them to passively ignore incoming damage...
If they would character build with more defense in mind they wouldnt be melted so easily by attacks such as Soul Assault...
Its a learn to build issue in all honestly...
Oh and there will never be an attack that kills my Templar in 3 seconds without me being able to do anything about it...why?
Because I built my character with the ability to withstand damage...
Some of the medium armor builds here need to learn how to do that as well...
Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s3 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Once again the cry babies start on the nerfs.
They never go with "buff this for counter play" its always the tears and the nerf, and zos listens. These are the people who have made ESO pvp a zergging pug fest.
Yes I'm such a cry baby because all it requires to win a fight against a medium armor player is to activate your Soul Assault. God forbid we make it so some intelligence is required to be victorious.
How do you think Magicka builds feel about Shuffle?
Its frustrating as hell gap closing a Shuffle user (and them passively dodging it and its CC), and unloading Puncturing Sweeps on them only to have atleast 2 of the Sweeps fail to connect...
In the mean while, every single attack the Shuffle user uses against you lands flush...
The way I see it, we use Soul Assault to counter the cheesy gameplay Medium Armor users bring to the table...
Afterall, the best way to counter cheese is with cheese of your own...
Since when does shuffle kill magicka users? Shuffle and roll dodge are the main defensive mechanics of medium armor. Just because u find those mechanics frustrating for whatever reason even tho there are a million different things that go through dodge, it doesnt mean that you should have an "i win" button against them.
If you want to equate soul assault with anything then imagine an ability that kills ur templar in 3 seconds without u being able to do anything. And then you come here to talk about cheese.
Its truly astonishing how clueless some of you people are.
Its not my fault that these medium armor builds are so heavily glass cannon...
You know the type; you see them everywhere:
4000+ weapon damage, barely have 20k health (and sometimes sub 20k health) even with Battle Spirit, all the while expecting to get away with being pure glass canon solely with Shuffle allowing them to passively ignore incoming damage...
If they would character build with more defense in mind they wouldnt be melted so easily by attacks such as Soul Assault...
Its a learn to build issue in all honestly...
Oh and there will never be an attack that kills my Templar in 3 seconds without me being able to do anything about it...why?
Because I built my character with the ability to withstand damage...
Some of the medium armor builds here need to learn how to do that as well...
Many medium armor builds are glass cannony because:- Stamina skills scale really, really bad with their respective stats (weapon dmg/stamina).
- Dodge rolling is not a viable form of defense in most scenarios.
A person building for high weapon damage/stamina is also building up his healing, the problem is that it doesn't quite work as well as magicka builds which build for as high magicka as possible and get carried by their dmg shields while also dealing high damage.
If you start building for mitigation instead (i.e. S&B/defensive sets), you're building a tank character - and that's not what many people want to play.
If a magicka build can build for high dmg and survive with their destro staves & resto off bars, then there's no reason why a high dmg stamina build shouldn't be able to survive with DW/Bow, Bow/Bow, 2H/Bow etc3 -
CavalryPK✭✭✭✭✭This free win against medium armor nonsense is ridiculous.
If you are a stamblade, after the second tic of soul assult you can cast cloak.THE CAVELRY HAS ARRIVED! Cav is a professional magblade, (in his not so professional opinion). He is immortal and is fighting for the Pact since 2E 572, amidst the turmoil of the Second Akaviri Invasion. He protects the provinces of Skyrim, Morrowind and Black Marsh.
Check out his PVP YouTube channel !
https://youtube.com/TheCavalryPK0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Soul Strike will still burn around 13k stamina if you cloak it, deal around 10k dmg and drain almost 4k magicka as well (cloak cost). But yeah, I don't die instantly to the first Soul Strike, I guess that's what magicka builds consider a counter these days...I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.4 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »I don't think they need to be as good as shields. And I don't think Soul Assault needs to be nerfed.
I really think crit resistance not only makes sense thematically but would provide the ability to stack more into resistance for survival, or can then move away from impen into other means of survival.
I can see the freedom of using sturdy + well fitted because I get an inherent 1000-ish impen for wearing medium.
Though, one can argue you should be running impreg with all impen+42 into resistent CP if you want to roll 5pc medium. That will give you 80% crit resistance and negate 99% of Cyro (1% of the rest are getting major/minor force and even then its only giving them a low modifier).
But your regen takes a hit and the only bow sets that give a good boost to dmg stats appear to be senche, clever or running master bow with 3pc agility. Otherwise HA builds beat you everytime for dmg and survival.
I don't see much of a way to buff MA:
- you buff up MA crit resists, and anyone running impreg on a 5pc MA can throw their CP to ironclad/thick skin to dip their survival past HA.
- you buff up MA's dmg, and them+HA stam builds will dominate more than LA/HA mag builds.
- you give MA additional survival stats, and then why didn't those MA builds just run HA tank builds?
That leaves 3 options:
- buff MA sets (but then access to rings means HA can get these sets.)
- nerf HA sets (but then MA loses extra dmg from these sets.)
- change both meta HA and MA sets to reflect their style of play. For HA, have the dmg/sustain divided up between 5-10 stacks of taking hits/taking heals, then have the MA sets changed to get their dmg/sustain via dodge roll/sneak/sprint (senche + shadow walker are the perfect example of this)
I think changing how MA and HA gain their stat buffs, would be the best way to go about this. But as of right now, either MA or HA can get whatever they want through jewels, creating a rabbit-hole of imbalance.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Once again the cry babies start on the nerfs.
They never go with "buff this for counter play" its always the tears and the nerf, and zos listens. These are the people who have made ESO pvp a zergging pug fest.
Yes I'm such a cry baby because all it requires to win a fight against a medium armor player is to activate your Soul Assault. God forbid we make it so some intelligence is required to be victorious.
How do you think Magicka builds feel about Shuffle?
Its frustrating as hell gap closing a Shuffle user (and them passively dodging it and its CC), and unloading Puncturing Sweeps on them only to have atleast 2 of the Sweeps fail to connect...
In the mean while, every single attack the Shuffle user uses against you lands flush...
The way I see it, we use Soul Assault to counter the cheesy gameplay Medium Armor users bring to the table...
Afterall, the best way to counter cheese is with cheese of your own...
Since when does shuffle kill magicka users? Shuffle and roll dodge are the main defensive mechanics of medium armor. Just because u find those mechanics frustrating for whatever reason even tho there are a million different things that go through dodge, it doesnt mean that you should have an "i win" button against them.
If you want to equate soul assault with anything then imagine an ability that kills ur templar in 3 seconds without u being able to do anything. And then you come here to talk about cheese.
Its truly astonishing how clueless some of you people are.
Its not my fault that these medium armor builds are so heavily glass cannon...
You know the type; you see them everywhere:
4000+ weapon damage, barely have 20k health (and sometimes sub 20k health) even with Battle Spirit, all the while expecting to get away with being pure glass canon solely with Shuffle allowing them to passively ignore incoming damage...
If they would character build with more defense in mind they wouldnt be melted so easily by attacks such as Soul Assault...
Its a learn to build issue in all honestly...
Oh and there will never be an attack that kills my Templar in 3 seconds without me being able to do anything about it...why?
Because I built my character with the ability to withstand damage...
Some of the medium armor builds here need to learn how to do that as well...
And what about my build makes me a glass cannon?HoloYoitsu wrote: »You mean counterplay like hold block and press vigor?
You mean burn all my stam then die since soul assault out DPS's my vigor and Rally? Oh and before the simpleton retorts come in:
25k health, 39k stam, 24k mitigation, 2500 crit resist, 37 elemental defender, 66 Thaurmaturge, and 4200 weapons damage. And yet that move still out DPS's my healing because it's easy to have 100k+ tool tip.
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »You mean counterplay like hold block and press vigor?
You mean burn all my stam then die since soul assault out DPS's my vigor and Rally? Oh and before the simpleton retorts come in:
25k health, 39k stam, 24k mitigation, 2500 crit resist, 37 elemental defender, 66 Thaurmaturge, and 4200 weapons damage. And yet that move still out DPS's my healing because it's easy to have 100k+ tool tip.
Thaum has no impact on healing
No, but it does affect mitigation against Soul Assault.
@Daus
How does Thaumaturg affect mitigation against soul assault?
Thaumaturg increased the damage of your DoT abilities. It doesn't reduce the damage you take from other DoT abilities and I don't think here is a passive in that tree that helps either.
Think Skinned in the Lady reduces the damage to take from DoT abilities.
We may have found part of the issue OP is dealing with. Bad CP setup.1 -
AddictionX✭✭✭✭The most cheapest `Oh I win button` ever...
Sometimes you might survive with Vigor, and gap closing the maggot and interrupting the thingie then hacking it to pieces.
you cannot interrupt soul assault... you CAN interrupt the Jesus beam.
If you're going to give unsolicited sarcastic advice least try it your self first.0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Once again the cry babies start on the nerfs.
They never go with "buff this for counter play" its always the tears and the nerf, and zos listens. These are the people who have made ESO pvp a zergging pug fest.
Yes I'm such a cry baby because all it requires to win a fight against a medium armor player is to activate your Soul Assault. God forbid we make it so some intelligence is required to be victorious.
How do you think Magicka builds feel about Shuffle?
Its frustrating as hell gap closing a Shuffle user (and them passively dodging it and its CC), and unloading Puncturing Sweeps on them only to have atleast 2 of the Sweeps fail to connect...
In the mean while, every single attack the Shuffle user uses against you lands flush...
The way I see it, we use Soul Assault to counter the cheesy gameplay Medium Armor users bring to the table...
Afterall, the best way to counter cheese is with cheese of your own...
Since when does shuffle kill magicka users? Shuffle and roll dodge are the main defensive mechanics of medium armor. Just because u find those mechanics frustrating for whatever reason even tho there are a million different things that go through dodge, it doesnt mean that you should have an "i win" button against them.
If you want to equate soul assault with anything then imagine an ability that kills ur templar in 3 seconds without u being able to do anything. And then you come here to talk about cheese.
Its truly astonishing how clueless some of you people are.
Its not my fault that these medium armor builds are so heavily glass cannon...
You know the type; you see them everywhere:
4000+ weapon damage, barely have 20k health (and sometimes sub 20k health) even with Battle Spirit, all the while expecting to get away with being pure glass canon solely with Shuffle allowing them to passively ignore incoming damage...
If they would character build with more defense in mind they wouldnt be melted so easily by attacks such as Soul Assault...
Its a learn to build issue in all honestly...
Oh and there will never be an attack that kills my Templar in 3 seconds without me being able to do anything about it...why?
Because I built my character with the ability to withstand damage...
Some of the medium armor builds here need to learn how to do that as well...
And what about my build makes me a glass cannon?HoloYoitsu wrote: »You mean counterplay like hold block and press vigor?
You mean burn all my stam then die since soul assault out DPS's my vigor and Rally? Oh and before the simpleton retorts come in:
25k health, 39k stam, 24k mitigation, 2500 crit resist, 37 elemental defender, 66 Thaurmaturge, and 4200 weapons damage. And yet that move still out DPS's my healing because it's easy to have 100k+ tool tip.
I will admit, you are not a glass canon, HOWEVER, your CP placement is the problem...
Thaurmatuge buffs damage over time abilities; it does NOT reduce damage over time effects...
Thick skinned reduces the damage of damage over time effects...
So if you want to survive Soul Assault, you need to place points into that...Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »You mean counterplay like hold block and press vigor?
You mean burn all my stam then die since soul assault out DPS's my vigor and Rally? Oh and before the simpleton retorts come in:
25k health, 39k stam, 24k mitigation, 2500 crit resist, 37 elemental defender, 66 Thaurmaturge, and 4200 weapons damage. And yet that move still out DPS's my healing because it's easy to have 100k+ tool tip.
Thaum has no impact on healing
No, but it does affect mitigation against Soul Assault.
@Daus
How does Thaumaturg affect mitigation against soul assault?
Thaumaturg increased the damage of your DoT abilities. It doesn't reduce the damage you take from other DoT abilities and I don't think here is a passive in that tree that helps either.
Think Skinned in the Lady reduces the damage to take from DoT abilities.
We may have found part of the issue OP is dealing with. Bad CP setup.
You beat me to it, but you are 100% correct...
Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »You mean counterplay like hold block and press vigor?
You mean burn all my stam then die since soul assault out DPS's my vigor and Rally? Oh and before the simpleton retorts come in:
25k health, 39k stam, 24k mitigation, 2500 crit resist, 37 elemental defender, 66 Thaurmaturge, and 4200 weapons damage. And yet that move still out DPS's my healing because it's easy to have 100k+ tool tip.
Thaum has no impact on healing
No, but it does affect mitigation against Soul Assault.
@Daus
How does Thaumaturg affect mitigation against soul assault?
Thaumaturg increased the damage of your DoT abilities. It doesn't reduce the damage you take from other DoT abilities and I don't think here is a passive in that tree that helps either.
Think Skinned in the Lady reduces the damage to take from DoT abilities.
We may have found part of the issue OP is dealing with. Bad CP setup.
No the issue is that I typed the wrong name. I have 66 into Thick skinned, not Thaurmaturge.0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »You mean counterplay like hold block and press vigor?
You mean burn all my stam then die since soul assault out DPS's my vigor and Rally? Oh and before the simpleton retorts come in:
25k health, 39k stam, 24k mitigation, 2500 crit resist, 37 elemental defender, 66 Thaurmaturge, and 4200 weapons damage. And yet that move still out DPS's my healing because it's easy to have 100k+ tool tip.
Thaum has no impact on healing
No, but it does affect mitigation against Soul Assault.
@Daus
How does Thaumaturg affect mitigation against soul assault?
Thaumaturg increased the damage of your DoT abilities. It doesn't reduce the damage you take from other DoT abilities and I don't think here is a passive in that tree that helps either.
Think Skinned in the Lady reduces the damage to take from DoT abilities.
We may have found part of the issue OP is dealing with. Bad CP setup.
You beat me to it, but you are 100% correct...
I typed the wrong name. I meant to type Thick skinned.0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »@DDuke you're in a duel, I go 11-0, 9-1, 7-2 etc in BGs, I kill most players in Cyrodiil, and I barely win 50% of my duels if that.
You're already within range, you're already being focused on, you don't get to LoS, you can't run away, your maneuvering is limited to the circle.
You're absolutely starting in the worst conditions for medium armor. It's not wise to using duels as a standard
So what you're saying is that you have good results when getting carried by a team but can't win half your duels where you gotta stand on your own?
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Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »@DDuke you're in a duel, I go 11-0, 9-1, 7-2 etc in BGs, I kill most players in Cyrodiil, and I barely win 50% of my duels if that.
You're already within range, you're already being focused on, you don't get to LoS, you can't run away, your maneuvering is limited to the circle.
You're absolutely starting in the worst conditions for medium armor. It's not wise to using duels as a standard
So what you're saying is that you have good results when getting carried by a team but can't win half your duels where you gotta stand on your own?
No, no, no... What he's saying is that medium is just fine because when you have allies healing you, shielding you, and debuffing your opponents the Survivability of medium is pretty solid. Oh, and MA is also solid when you have a tree to run circles around like a 1vX pro.1 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »@DDuke you're in a duel, I go 11-0, 9-1, 7-2 etc in BGs, I kill most players in Cyrodiil, and I barely win 50% of my duels if that.
You're already within range, you're already being focused on, you don't get to LoS, you can't run away, your maneuvering is limited to the circle.
You're absolutely starting in the worst conditions for medium armor. It's not wise to using duels as a standard
So what you're saying is that you have good results when getting carried by a team but can't win half your duels where you gotta stand on your own?
No, no, no... What he's saying is that medium is just fine because when you have allies healing you, shielding you, and debuffing your opponents the Survivability of medium is pretty solid. Oh, and MA is also solid when you have a tree to run circles around like a 1vX pro.
Medium is fine, of course
1 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭Soul Assault got several big weaknesses.
1)5 sec Channel for full effect(big downside in outnumber situation).
2) Single target only(t(big downside in outnumber situation).
3)Line of sight cancels the channel - makes it work only in limited situation of pure open field(hard counter).
4)The full dmg is big but the burst dmg is moderate, making it manageable with blocking + heal, even if you take 2 sec full dmg you can survive(soft counter)
5)Scales with Thaumaturge(making you split your dmg champ points, most players dont even bother)
There is a reason why most magic NB will take soul harvest over soul assault as a cheap single target utly. If magicka builds had "Dawnbreaker of Smiting" version they would have taken it over soul assault 90% of the times.
In conclusion:
*Look for an object to break line of sight.
*block+ heal
*Put some points in Thick Skinned
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Mazbt✭✭✭✭I don't get kills with it ever (on my magplar) unless i hit someone already really low. It works well as a pseudo execute against someone low on resources anyways. That's how I usually die to it. Otherwise unless focus fired by multiple people (with 1 or more soul assaults) i don't have an issue with it.Mazari the Resurrected (AD)- PVP stamplar main
Maz the Druid - PVP group stam warden
- many others
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Fantasia0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't get kills with it ever (on my magplar) unless i hit someone already really low. It works well as a pseudo execute against someone low on resources anyways. That's how I usually die to it. Otherwise unless focus fired by multiple people (with 1 or more soul assaults) i don't have an issue with it.
You just described every ultimate in game ever. No ultimate ever gets "kills with it" and it's usually used in a burst combo or used during a smart play. If you're using an ultimate at full hp you're either a) trash or b) using incap.3 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Once again the cry babies start on the nerfs.
They never go with "buff this for counter play" its always the tears and the nerf, and zos listens. These are the people who have made ESO pvp a zergging pug fest.
Yes I'm such a cry baby because all it requires to win a fight against a medium armor player is to activate your Soul Assault. God forbid we make it so some intelligence is required to be victorious.
How do you think Magicka builds feel about Shuffle?
Its frustrating as hell gap closing a Shuffle user (and them passively dodging it and its CC), and unloading Puncturing Sweeps on them only to have atleast 2 of the Sweeps fail to connect...
In the mean while, every single attack the Shuffle user uses against you lands flush...
The way I see it, we use Soul Assault to counter the cheesy gameplay Medium Armor users bring to the table...
Afterall, the best way to counter cheese is with cheese of your own...
Since when does shuffle kill magicka users? Shuffle and roll dodge are the main defensive mechanics of medium armor. Just because u find those mechanics frustrating for whatever reason even tho there are a million different things that go through dodge, it doesnt mean that you should have an "i win" button against them.
If you want to equate soul assault with anything then imagine an ability that kills ur templar in 3 seconds without u being able to do anything. And then you come here to talk about cheese.
Its truly astonishing how clueless some of you people are.
Its not my fault that these medium armor builds are so heavily glass cannon...
You know the type; you see them everywhere:
4000+ weapon damage, barely have 20k health (and sometimes sub 20k health) even with Battle Spirit, all the while expecting to get away with being pure glass canon solely with Shuffle allowing them to passively ignore incoming damage...
If they would character build with more defense in mind they wouldnt be melted so easily by attacks such as Soul Assault...
Its a learn to build issue in all honestly...
Oh and there will never be an attack that kills my Templar in 3 seconds without me being able to do anything about it...why?
Because I built my character with the ability to withstand damage...
Some of the medium armor builds here need to learn how to do that as well...
There is no ability that kills ur templar in 3 seconds without u being able to do anything because there is no ability that completely shuts down every available defense you have, not because u know how to make a build.
You somehow have this dumb idea that they just want to play glass cannon builds and still survive everything. And thats because you dont know how the ability works and how the defensive mechanics interact with the ability. Soul assault hard counters every single available mechanic medium armor builds have. You are confusing your lack of knowledge with people being entitled to everything.
I could go on and try to explain you every single mechanic and how soul assault interacts with it but im not interested in writing an essay. There are multiple threads about soul assault with actual numbers for a bunch of different scenarios. Find them and u can see on ur own. The short answer is that SA does 10k+ dmg through block and drains more than half of their stamina pool while they are sitting ducks from the snare and regen being stopped. And no thats not on glass cannon builds.
And no im not just another biased dodge roll build refusing to adapt. Im the one using SA.
Different types of abilities were designed with different mechanics and counters to keep them in check and promote skillful play offensively and defensively. To make it a little more simple for you to understand. If someone is mindlessly casting SA, you should be able to bash his head off.6 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why every threads about soul assault since Homestead eventually just moves to constant bickering between people so bad they cant kill anything with it and people not actually using build countered by it. It is pretty much simple.
Soul assault counters- dodge roll defense of medium by being undodgeable and by forcing you to block (cant block when dodging and vice versa)
- mobility of medium by applying huge snare and by forcing you to selfsnare yourself with block
- kiting capability of medium by applying huge snare and working from long distance
- healing capability of medium by dealing large amount of damage unhealable by simple vigor or too early use of rally
- resource sustain capability of medium by forcing you to block to both disable regen and drain resources (from blocking and healing)
It literally disables everything that means to be medium armor build for 4 seconds (2 seconds on NB). So no, if you cant kill people with it you are either bad or they are good enough that they could strip naked to bare first and survive fighting you for 4sec. Which, lets be real, is not that much difficult. Does not mean it should be happening. I am sure, plenty of shield (stack) users would change their playstyle and build to not die if there was ulti that disabled shields for 4sec. Same goes for all block users if they were unable to block for 4sec (and that is just one part of their defense), yet it would still be pretty stupid counter. It is also amplified greatly if used by many opponents, allowing any group (of any skill) to focus the medium armor builds, arguably the weakest builds when under focus of undodgeable abilities.
And no it is not build issue. Building medium armor with 30k resistance, shield and 30k hp is not solution. That is one of the roots of problem why everybody is heavy. It is simply pointless to play tanky medium. It is not designed to be tanky and glass cannon builds worked just fine for several years of this game. "Dont be glass cannon" is not saying anything more than would be saying "dont play DK" to everyone that complains DK are bad now or "dont play pvp" to everyone complaining about lags or no sounds.Edited by SodanTok on November 13, 2017 10:30PM7 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Once again the cry babies start on the nerfs.
They never go with "buff this for counter play" its always the tears and the nerf, and zos listens. These are the people who have made ESO pvp a zergging pug fest.
Yes I'm such a cry baby because all it requires to win a fight against a medium armor player is to activate your Soul Assault. God forbid we make it so some intelligence is required to be victorious.
How do you think Magicka builds feel about Shuffle?
Its frustrating as hell gap closing a Shuffle user (and them passively dodging it and its CC), and unloading Puncturing Sweeps on them only to have atleast 2 of the Sweeps fail to connect...
In the mean while, every single attack the Shuffle user uses against you lands flush...
The way I see it, we use Soul Assault to counter the cheesy gameplay Medium Armor users bring to the table...
Afterall, the best way to counter cheese is with cheese of your own...
Since when does shuffle kill magicka users? Shuffle and roll dodge are the main defensive mechanics of medium armor. Just because u find those mechanics frustrating for whatever reason even tho there are a million different things that go through dodge, it doesnt mean that you should have an "i win" button against them.
If you want to equate soul assault with anything then imagine an ability that kills ur templar in 3 seconds without u being able to do anything. And then you come here to talk about cheese.
Its truly astonishing how clueless some of you people are.
Its not my fault that these medium armor builds are so heavily glass cannon...
You know the type; you see them everywhere:
4000+ weapon damage, barely have 20k health (and sometimes sub 20k health) even with Battle Spirit, all the while expecting to get away with being pure glass canon solely with Shuffle allowing them to passively ignore incoming damage...
If they would character build with more defense in mind they wouldnt be melted so easily by attacks such as Soul Assault...
Its a learn to build issue in all honestly...
Oh and there will never be an attack that kills my Templar in 3 seconds without me being able to do anything about it...why?
Because I built my character with the ability to withstand damage...
Some of the medium armor builds here need to learn how to do that as well...
There is no ability that kills ur templar in 3 seconds without u being able to do anything because there is no ability that completely shuts down every available defense you have, not because u know how to make a build.
You somehow have this dumb idea that they just want to play glass cannon builds and still survive everything. And thats because you dont know how the ability works and how the defensive mechanics interact with the ability. Soul assault hard counters every single available mechanic medium armor builds have. You are confusing your lack of knowledge with people being entitled to everything.
I could go on and try to explain you every single mechanic and how soul assault interacts with it but im not interested in writing an essay. There are multiple threads about soul assault with actual numbers for a bunch of different scenarios. Find them and u can see on ur own. The short answer is that SA does 10k+ dmg through block and drains more than half of their stamina pool while they are sitting ducks from the snare and regen being stopped. And no thats not on glass cannon builds.
And no im not just another biased dodge roll build refusing to adapt. Im the one using SA.
Different types of abilities were designed with different mechanics and counters to keep them in check and promote skillful play offensively and defensively. To make it a little more simple for you to understand. If someone is mindlessly casting SA, you should be able to bash his head off.
Don't presume to know what I know; you don't know a d@m thing about me...
Your assumptions in this post are pure ignorance on your part as pertains to my knowledge base...
I know exactly how Soul Assault works; I exactly what it does...
There are ways to adapt to Soul Assault from a Medium Armor standpoint and no I wont tell you anything; I wont think for you...
Workable adaptations are possible...if one is willing to think outside the box.
Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't play medium armor anymore,
But SA is not a reason for that.
SA is only a small part of the issue.
To be honest cliff racer or a good nightblade is 10 times bigger trouble than a soul assault when I use medium armor.
The real bad part about soul assault is that I need to sit like a duck and block it.
Which is not possible on a medium armor build. Its a guaranteed death for the medium armor user.
But then again, 3 cliff racers can instakill me too so whats the difference?
Medium needs something like built in crit resistance instead of stealth bonuses.
Its useless on anything that isnt a nightblade.Edited by Ragnarock41 on November 13, 2017 10:41PM1
