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Cliff Racer PVP dmg (magicka morph)
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Malic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seriously undodgable 4,7k - 5,5k hits? You are already dead before you can catch the warden.
So whats the take away?
Do you think the PVP dev was in on the development of the skill? If so its a testament to that individuals understanding of the PVP environment of the game.
Do you think it was put in without considering PVP? IF so its a testament to ZOS lack of consideration for PVP players.
There really isnt any way to get around these two questions because the skill is absurd as it is now. I wouldnt nerf the skill, I dislike nerfs but it has to be dodgable. Anyone with a few hours in cyrodiil could tell you thats the fix, why it hasnt happened is more a testament to ZOS and how they feel about PVP.
What other conclusion could you possibly draw?0 -
Dixa✭✭✭✭Until the class gets overhauled and made not useless in pve let them eat cake in pvp.Edited by Dixa on November 12, 2017 4:58PM0
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Dr_Ganknstein✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Sorry but L2P bud. Check your local GameStop, they usually sell Strategy Guides.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »
Where (or who) are those OP stamwardens on PC EU? Not being sarcastic here. Did some BGs after reinstall this week and tried to find em but so far I haven't been able to spot a dangerous one.
They don't exist. Or are super duper rare? I'm with you, haven't faced a single warden that comes close to "OP"
Wanna know what really messes with a Warden? When they LoS for Sub, you dodge roll to the side and use a Hard CC, watch the sub fling way the #$&- in the wrong direction lmfao0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Sorry but L2P bud. Check your local GameStop, they usually sell Strategy Guides.
The good old 'L2P i don't want to discuss' hammer. if you played on pc EU I really love to fight against you.
There is no player that is actually good at this game that says stamwarden is balanced because it is not.
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Sorry but L2P bud. Check your local GameStop, they usually sell Strategy Guides.
The good old 'L2P i don't want to discuss' hammer. if you played on pc EU I really love to fight against you.
There is no player that is actually good at this game that says stamwarden is balanced because it is not.
Lmfao. I am most certainly good at this game and I don't feel like warden is OP0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
Sorry but L2P bud. Check your local GameStop, they usually sell Strategy Guides.
The good old 'L2P i don't want to discuss' hammer. if you played on pc EU I really love to fight against you.
There is no player that is actually good at this game that says stamwarden is balanced because it is not.
Lmfao. I am most certainly good at this game and I don't feel like warden is OP
Name 1 weakness, I'll wait0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
Sorry but L2P bud. Check your local GameStop, they usually sell Strategy Guides.
The good old 'L2P i don't want to discuss' hammer. if you played on pc EU I really love to fight against you.
There is no player that is actually good at this game that says stamwarden is balanced because it is not.
Lmfao. I am most certainly good at this game and I don't feel like warden is OP
Name 1 weakness, I'll wait
Debuffs. A warden (except wyrd tree) has 0 access to debuff removal. I know my defile, snares (albeit 15% less lol) won't go away.
Sustained pressure, wardens lack it completely. If the burst doesn't kill, there's no way to stop the opponent from escaping and healing. I know I have 3 seconds between bursts to do whatever I want. And dive is only pressure when you're out and have no LoS around.
Edit: range, 20m on Sub Assault means all my abilities have 8-22m advantageEdited by Waffennacht on November 12, 2017 7:30PM1 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
Sorry but L2P bud. Check your local GameStop, they usually sell Strategy Guides.
The good old 'L2P i don't want to discuss' hammer. if you played on pc EU I really love to fight against you.
There is no player that is actually good at this game that says stamwarden is balanced because it is not.
Lmfao. I am most certainly good at this game and I don't feel like warden is OP
Then tell me what isn't op with a class that ignores 2/4 major defences and has access to reduce the 3rd by 30%. While having unlimited sustain combined with low cost skills.
The best ultigen in the game which makes you immune to ranged skills aswell and with the easiest and still one of the strongest bursts in the game and offering huge utility to the group with the only stam burst heal in the game that is AoE. Followed by easy 100% major expedition uptime with minor beserk and all other buffs you could ask for.
Oh yeah i guess Warden is pretty balanced.2 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »
Sorry but L2P bud. Check your local GameStop, they usually sell Strategy Guides.
The good old 'L2P i don't want to discuss' hammer. if you played on pc EU I really love to fight against you.
There is no player that is actually good at this game that says stamwarden is balanced because it is not.
Lmfao. I am most certainly good at this game and I don't feel like warden is OP
Name 1 weakness, I'll wait
Debuffs. A warden (except wyrd tree) has 0 access to debuff removal. I know my defile, snares (albeit 15% less lol) won't go away.
Sustained pressure, wardens lack it completely. If the burst doesn't kill, there's no way to stop the opponent from escaping and healing. I know I have 3 seconds between bursts to do whatever I want. And dive is only pressure when you're out and have no LoS around.
You mean like every other class can't purge debuffs except for templars. And magwarden even gets a free purge linked to one of the best skills in the game.
Both wardens have great sustained pressure. Stamwarden doesn't rely on 2h meaning you can go bow/dw or 1h&s/dw and this will give you great pressure. Magwarden gets pressure with bugs or simple bird spam.
And now LoS is no counter to birds, they hit you behind Cover and when you leave your Cover get ready to eat them again and if you can't catch ppl on your warden there is something wrong with your movement2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NB has access to major expedition, major defile, beserk, best HoTs in game, DoTs, invisibility, cheapest hardest hitting ult, best ult gen, passive major resolve, passive health buff, immune to DoTs.
Each class has very similar accessibility, usually passively when certain skills are slotted.
Now I keep saying OP, and not balanced because I don't believe there is a true balance nor will there be unless each class is exactly the same (don't want that). But I will say what has been on the forums about the God like abilities of wardens has been exaggerated.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »
Sorry but L2P bud. Check your local GameStop, they usually sell Strategy Guides.
The good old 'L2P i don't want to discuss' hammer. if you played on pc EU I really love to fight against you.
There is no player that is actually good at this game that says stamwarden is balanced because it is not.
Lmfao. I am most certainly good at this game and I don't feel like warden is OP
Name 1 weakness, I'll wait
Debuffs. A warden (except wyrd tree) has 0 access to debuff removal. I know my defile, snares (albeit 15% less lol) won't go away.
Sustained pressure, wardens lack it completely. If the burst doesn't kill, there's no way to stop the opponent from escaping and healing. I know I have 3 seconds between bursts to do whatever I want. And dive is only pressure when you're out and have no LoS around.
You mean like every other class can't purge debuffs except for templars. And magwarden even gets a free purge linked to one of the best skills in the game.
Both wardens have great sustained pressure. Stamwarden doesn't rely on 2h meaning you can go bow/dw or 1h&s/dw and this will give you great pressure. Magwarden gets pressure with bugs or simple bird spam.
And now LoS is no counter to birds, they hit you behind Cover and when you leave your Cover get ready to eat them again and if you can't catch ppl on your warden there is something wrong with your movement
Lol, I'm not saying they're bad, there's absolutely advantages to being a warden. I was one for a very long time, which is why I know what drove me Batty.
Being kited by a NB sucks, sure you may not die if you keep treeing etc, but if they play correctly they won't die either as they dance around outside of your Sub Assault (again you can kill someone, this is just an example)
Imo, if a warden can catch you there's something wrong with your movement, not that warden is subpar, but if you're a range player you just keep out of closer range.
The point about debuffs is other classes have ways to deal even if it's not a direct purge. Sorc has streak plus the ability to ignore defile. NBs can cloak and reset. Temps purge, DKs just bolster down turtle and counter. Warden has to re cast blue Betty (the subpar choice generally speaking)
Again warden is good, and what I'm describing isn't common I'm sure. But I just don't see "OP" I see good, I see comparable if maybe a bit a head. But "omg! Nerf! Nerf nerf!" I don't see0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »NB has access to major expedition, major defile, beserk, best HoTs in game, DoTs, invisibility, cheapest hardest hitting ult, best ult gen, passive major resolve, passive health buff, immune to DoTs.
Each class has very similar accessibility, usually passively when certain skills are slotted.
Now I keep saying OP, and not balanced because I don't believe there is a true balance nor will there be unless each class is exactly the same (don't want that). But I will say what has been on the forums about the God like abilities of wardens has been exaggerated.
Major expedition for 4/8 seconds where 8 seconds require a target vs 10s without a target.
Nb has 1 Dot + 1 ground based dot Warden has the same amount.
Nb has a small stationary ult that gives major protection, Warden has a 8m following aoe that CC'S or gives 8% max magicka.
Warden gets aoe major defile on a heal nb on a Single target ult.
Nbs defence can be removed for 100% of the time not possible for wardens defence.
And nb is with sorc the class that I'd value as most powerful and Warden still gives them a run for their money1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »NB has access to major expedition, major defile, beserk, best HoTs in game, DoTs, invisibility, cheapest hardest hitting ult, best ult gen, passive major resolve, passive health buff, immune to DoTs.
Each class has very similar accessibility, usually passively when certain skills are slotted.
Now I keep saying OP, and not balanced because I don't believe there is a true balance nor will there be unless each class is exactly the same (don't want that). But I will say what has been on the forums about the God like abilities of wardens has been exaggerated.
Major expedition for 4/8 seconds where 8 seconds require a target vs 10s without a target.
Nb has 1 Dot + 1 ground based dot Warden has the same amount.
Nb has a small stationary ult that gives major protection, Warden has a 8m following aoe that CC'S or gives 8% max magicka.
Warden gets aoe major defile on a heal nb on a Single target ult.
Nbs defence can be removed for 100% of the time not possible for wardens defence.
And nb is with sorc the class that I'd value as most powerful and Warden still gives them a run for their money
Which I agree with (I mean I was thinking of refreshing path myself and the Wardens dots are magicka/not good for PvP, I mean revenge is not good for PvP)
I'm not about to say warden is worse, I can even maybe agree to a bit better, but that's ok imo. To me, the best example of OP was the proc set Meta, and warden is not the same as that. Ya know what I mean?0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »NB has access to major expedition, major defile, beserk, best HoTs in game, DoTs, invisibility, cheapest hardest hitting ult, best ult gen, passive major resolve, passive health buff, immune to DoTs.
Each class has very similar accessibility, usually passively when certain skills are slotted.
Now I keep saying OP, and not balanced because I don't believe there is a true balance nor will there be unless each class is exactly the same (don't want that). But I will say what has been on the forums about the God like abilities of wardens has been exaggerated.
Major expedition for 4/8 seconds where 8 seconds require a target vs 10s without a target.
Nb has 1 Dot + 1 ground based dot Warden has the same amount.
Nb has a small stationary ult that gives major protection, Warden has a 8m following aoe that CC'S or gives 8% max magicka.
Warden gets aoe major defile on a heal nb on a Single target ult.
Nbs defence can be removed for 100% of the time not possible for wardens defence.
And nb is with sorc the class that I'd value as most powerful and Warden still gives them a run for their money
Which I agree with (I mean I was thinking of refreshing path myself and the Wardens dots are magicka/not good for PvP, I mean revenge is not good for PvP)
I'm not about to say warden is worse, I can even maybe agree to a bit better, but that's ok imo. To me, the best example of OP was the proc set Meta, and warden is not the same as that. Ya know what I mean?
I know what you mean but there is simply no reason I can think of why i'd run stam dk/sorc/plar when i could run stamwarden i simply get everything i have and more without losing much/nothing and that's what i consider OP along with the fact that Warden wins much more Encounters from the beginning by ignoring main defences with the main spammable burst Combo that is too easy & cheap.
I don't want warden to be nerfed to Stamdk Levels but i want it to have it's own niche and not dominating like it does right now
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Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »
Sorry but L2P bud. Check your local GameStop, they usually sell Strategy Guides.
The good old 'L2P i don't want to discuss' hammer. if you played on pc EU I really love to fight against you.
There is no player that is actually good at this game that says stamwarden is balanced because it is not.
Lmfao. I am most certainly good at this game and I don't feel like warden is OP
Name 1 weakness, I'll wait
Debuffs. A warden (except wyrd tree) has 0 access to debuff removal. I know my defile, snares (albeit 15% less lol) won't go away.
Sustained pressure, wardens lack it completely. If the burst doesn't kill, there's no way to stop the opponent from escaping and healing. I know I have 3 seconds between bursts to do whatever I want. And dive is only pressure when you're out and have no LoS around.
Edit: range, 20m on Sub Assault means all my abilities have 8-22m advantage
Defile is aleviated by major mending, snares are countered by FM/shuffle.
Even if we look at the most burst warden setup, it's got great pressure, the 2h nirn asylum axe with double DoT poison is insane pressure when combined with sub and a spammable. Unpurgable aoe heal debuff and the ability to apply burst to a group then pressure the squishies because of defile+bigburst+single target DoTs.Edited by Lexxypwns on November 12, 2017 8:36PM0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »
Sorry but L2P bud. Check your local GameStop, they usually sell Strategy Guides.
The good old 'L2P i don't want to discuss' hammer. if you played on pc EU I really love to fight against you.
There is no player that is actually good at this game that says stamwarden is balanced because it is not.
Lmfao. I am most certainly good at this game and I don't feel like warden is OP
Name 1 weakness, I'll wait
Debuffs. A warden (except wyrd tree) has 0 access to debuff removal. I know my defile, snares (albeit 15% less lol) won't go away.
Sustained pressure, wardens lack it completely. If the burst doesn't kill, there's no way to stop the opponent from escaping and healing. I know I have 3 seconds between bursts to do whatever I want. And dive is only pressure when you're out and have no LoS around.
Edit: range, 20m on Sub Assault means all my abilities have 8-22m advantage
Defile is aleviated by major mending, snares are countered by FM/shuffle.
Even if we look at the most burst warden setup, it's got great pressure, the 2h nirn asylum axe with double DoT poison is insane pressure when combined with sub and a spammable. Unpurgable aoe heal debuff and the ability to apply burst to a group then pressure the squishies because of defile+bigburst+single target DoTs.
Sounds pretty dope. Sounds like a Bowplar maybe it's worst match up.0 -
Dr_Ganknstein✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Sorry but L2P bud. Check your local GameStop, they usually sell Strategy Guides.
The good old 'L2P i don't want to discuss' hammer. if you played on pc EU I really love to fight against you.
There is no player that is actually good at this game that says stamwarden is balanced because it is not.
The OP is talking about the magica morph not the stamina. Bottom line is you suck at the game and you have been using an OP class for far too long. Welcome to normalzville. EU doesn't even count.0 -
datgladiatah✭✭✭I main a sWarden now and I am so torn on the racer issue. On one hand, I feel like the damage is somewhat justified by 2 things, a. there is no other effect (no DoT, buff, deuff) and b. It's animation is super clunky and slows down your offense. HOWEVER, before people tear me apart here, I do not agree with the fact that it is un-dodgeable. There is no excuse for the fact that you can put your wings up and just chase a fleeing foe spamming un dodgeable damage until they die. The change I would make would be to make it dodgeable and speed up the animation, and projectile speed.
the damage is too high for their cost, range and Utility via passives and how they work in conjunction with warden Overall.
I think a 15% damage reduction + making them dodgeable along with projectile Speed increase would make them much more balanced. right now Birds deal almost the damage of suprise attack while SA is meele, dodgeable and costs more? and NBs actually have to stop pressuring you when they are pressured. (I don't think stamnb is perfectly balanced atm SA just compares best to Birds)
I mean, Warden does *** for DPS in PvE as it is. If you're going to make such a slow attack dodgeable, the least you can do is make it hurt rather than be 15% weaker...0 -
charley222✭✭✭✭The spamming does become dull to be on the end of
anyway i`m not sock of anything in this game because who balance this game really dont have it
btw i got 33k def and resistance and 32k heath just look the name of the one kill me this say everything , player understand the issue but not the one balancing the game
Edited by charley222 on November 13, 2017 5:24AMthe wall of the covenant1 -
gepe87✭✭✭✭✭
✭One Warden isn't a problem...But I already saw a full pvp group using cliff spammers..Gepe, Dunmer MagSorc Pact Grand Overlord | Gaepe, Bosmer MagSorc Dominion General
If you see edits on my replies: typos. English isn't my main language0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Sorry but L2P bud. Check your local GameStop, they usually sell Strategy Guides.
The good old 'L2P i don't want to discuss' hammer. if you played on pc EU I really love to fight against you.
There is no player that is actually good at this game that says stamwarden is balanced because it is not.
The OP is talking about the magica morph not the stamina. Bottom line is you suck at the game and you have been using an OP class for far too long. Welcome to normalzville. EU doesn't even count.
Yeah and the discussion changed to wardens in General. I haven't been playing stamnb in pvp since Morrowind because they are too strong and guess what i demand them to be balanced by removing the stun on incap as this is the only thing a stamnb can kill me on every class i play.
I play all classes atm except for warden i deleted mine after the first 30 min of cyro because of how op they are.
Tell me why Birds and wardens are not OP and don't try that lame L2P argumentEdited by BohnT on November 13, 2017 8:02AM0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭datgladiatah wrote: »I main a sWarden now and I am so torn on the racer issue. On one hand, I feel like the damage is somewhat justified by 2 things, a. there is no other effect (no DoT, buff, deuff) and b. It's animation is super clunky and slows down your offense. HOWEVER, before people tear me apart here, I do not agree with the fact that it is un-dodgeable. There is no excuse for the fact that you can put your wings up and just chase a fleeing foe spamming un dodgeable damage until they die. The change I would make would be to make it dodgeable and speed up the animation, and projectile speed.
the damage is too high for their cost, range and Utility via passives and how they work in conjunction with warden Overall.
I think a 15% damage reduction + making them dodgeable along with projectile Speed increase would make them much more balanced. right now Birds deal almost the damage of suprise attack while SA is meele, dodgeable and costs more? and NBs actually have to stop pressuring you when they are pressured. (I don't think stamnb is perfectly balanced atm SA just compares best to Birds)
I mean, Warden does *** for DPS in PvE as it is. If you're going to make such a slow attack dodgeable, the least you can do is make it hurt rather than be 15% weaker...
Warden needs help in PvE, a lot tbh but in PvP they are the best class as they get everything you can wish for. Making a ability dodgeable has no effect on pve.
Warden will have to get a complete overhaul to make them balanced in both pve and pvp.
If you nerf them all the way they will be even worse in PvE if you just increase the damage it will become even more op in PvP.
There needs to be changes with available buffs for damage increase and damage redistribution between burst and sustained damage and counterplay to skills1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭datgladiatah wrote: »I main a sWarden now and I am so torn on the racer issue. On one hand, I feel like the damage is somewhat justified by 2 things, a. there is no other effect (no DoT, buff, deuff) and b. It's animation is super clunky and slows down your offense. HOWEVER, before people tear me apart here, I do not agree with the fact that it is un-dodgeable. There is no excuse for the fact that you can put your wings up and just chase a fleeing foe spamming un dodgeable damage until they die. The change I would make would be to make it dodgeable and speed up the animation, and projectile speed.
the damage is too high for their cost, range and Utility via passives and how they work in conjunction with warden Overall.
I think a 15% damage reduction + making them dodgeable along with projectile Speed increase would make them much more balanced. right now Birds deal almost the damage of suprise attack while SA is meele, dodgeable and costs more? and NBs actually have to stop pressuring you when they are pressured. (I don't think stamnb is perfectly balanced atm SA just compares best to Birds)
I mean, Warden does *** for DPS in PvE as it is. If you're going to make such a slow attack dodgeable, the least you can do is make it hurt rather than be 15% weaker...
Why? It's not like those pve npc permadodging it. It would make zero difference there.0 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭lucky_Sage wrote: »how do you die by a bird spammer unless you get zerged down. if its a 1v1 and a guy is just spaming birds he will easily die its a very slow animation its only really strong if you only dodgle roll to try to relieve pressure and paired with either beetles or dizzying sing of stam or beetles and crushing shock if magick
honestly you would be surprised. I have taken down quite a few with beetle and 2 o 3r birds with la weave between.0 -
Dr_Ganknstein✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Sorry but L2P bud. Check your local GameStop, they usually sell Strategy Guides.
The good old 'L2P i don't want to discuss' hammer. if you played on pc EU I really love to fight against you.
There is no player that is actually good at this game that says stamwarden is balanced because it is not.
The OP is talking about the magica morph not the stamina. Bottom line is you suck at the game and you have been using an OP class for far too long. Welcome to normalzville. EU doesn't even count.
Yeah and the discussion changed to wardens in General. I haven't been playing stamnb in pvp since Morrowind because they are too strong and guess what i demand them to be balanced by removing the stun on incap as this is the only thing a stamnb can kill me on every class i play.
I play all classes atm except for warden i deleted mine after the first 30 min of cyro because of how op they are.
Tell me why Birds and wardens are not OP and don't try that lame L2P argument
Its a single target DD that does nothing else but mediocre damage.0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Sorry but L2P bud. Check your local GameStop, they usually sell Strategy Guides.
The good old 'L2P i don't want to discuss' hammer. if you played on pc EU I really love to fight against you.
There is no player that is actually good at this game that says stamwarden is balanced because it is not.
The OP is talking about the magica morph not the stamina. Bottom line is you suck at the game and you have been using an OP class for far too long. Welcome to normalzville. EU doesn't even count.
Yeah and the discussion changed to wardens in General. I haven't been playing stamnb in pvp since Morrowind because they are too strong and guess what i demand them to be balanced by removing the stun on incap as this is the only thing a stamnb can kill me on every class i play.
I play all classes atm except for warden i deleted mine after the first 30 min of cyro because of how op they are.
Tell me why Birds and wardens are not OP and don't try that lame L2P argument
Its a single target DD that does nothing else but mediocre damage.
this isn't pve. Warden has everything you could ask for for pvp. High burst, almost any buffs you Need, the main burst rota ignores 2/4 main defences that any class can use (dodge/block), cheap healing ults that can be used with almost 100% uptime and Overall good healing combined with great mobility1 -
Dr_Ganknstein✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Sorry but L2P bud. Check your local GameStop, they usually sell Strategy Guides.
The good old 'L2P i don't want to discuss' hammer. if you played on pc EU I really love to fight against you.
There is no player that is actually good at this game that says stamwarden is balanced because it is not.
The OP is talking about the magica morph not the stamina. Bottom line is you suck at the game and you have been using an OP class for far too long. Welcome to normalzville. EU doesn't even count.
Yeah and the discussion changed to wardens in General. I haven't been playing stamnb in pvp since Morrowind because they are too strong and guess what i demand them to be balanced by removing the stun on incap as this is the only thing a stamnb can kill me on every class i play.
I play all classes atm except for warden i deleted mine after the first 30 min of cyro because of how op they are.
Tell me why Birds and wardens are not OP and don't try that lame L2P argument
Its a single target DD that does nothing else but mediocre damage.
this isn't pve. Warden has everything you could ask for for pvp. High burst, almost any buffs you Need, the main burst rota ignores 2/4 main defences that any class can use (dodge/block), cheap healing ults that can be used with almost 100% uptime and Overall good healing combined with great mobility
Just vanish and run away. Thats what people told me to do against bomb groups. Maybe you shouldn't be fighting wardens. Try being in a different geographical location then them.0
