Been playing the game since launch, but I've mostly been a PvPer, so I never cared about PvE and whatever dps I had in there. Though recently I've been doing some more PvE. Now I main a stam Warden. I honestly never cared about dps until now. Slightly when I mained a stamnb.

I struggle getting +27k dps, although sometimes I can manage. I think it is just a thing of practising and finding the sets that are good, yet still I feel comfortable with, aswell that I only got my weapons in gold and 1 armor piece in gold too while rest is purple (and jewelry blue because TFS, still not managed to do vSO). The more I practise the more dps I seem to manage to get. I hope to reach more dps soon, but I definetly like to worry about the dps I do, and try to ask people about suggestions to get better on it. At the end of the day, all is about learning and practising.

And just as I care about my own, I care about the others'. I definetly am not the best dps, in fact my dps sucks, but I like to run smooth, with dps that definetly do more than 6k lol. So I agree with you, OP. Though I think one problem is that some people don't like to take suggestions of others, which kinda... well, I might understand why but... I dunno. If you're a dps and wanna get better, ask people, most will be friendly and give advice

Just as you say, vFH requires good dps. It was one of my worries when I did vBF. I really really -really- wanted the hat, and was worried my dps would not be enough to get the achievements: speedrun, no death and HM. But I managed to do it well enough with friendly guys, and now I do vBF without any troubles. Hopefully one day I can get to do vFH achievements too.

lmaooo 4k and 6k dps? what are they? bow tard light attack spammers? are their weapons like green too?

SoLooney wrote: »

lmaooo 4k and 6k dps? what are they? bow tard light attack spammers? are their weapons like green too?

I'm not passing judgment or making fun of anyone. I accept that there are lots of people (probably the overwhelming majority), who haven't thought about their rotations, their weapons, synergies, buffs etc. We all had low DPS at one time, and there's no need to be judgmental or to call them "spammers" or "tards".

My suggestion is simply for them to know their DPS. Everything will follow from that.

Furcula wrote: »

Did the 32k health person also happen to be using vampire skills? If so, I know who you are talking about and OH GOD.

Why? Didn't you know vampire skills are OP and need nerfs?

Being a Vampire also let's a player glide through VMA and win veteran trials much easier. They are so good in fact everyone is forced to be one or they basically suck.

And taking more fire damage in a place like Veteran Falkreath is so trivial and insignificant it's not even worth noting to be honest. ^^

CardboardedBox wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

CardboardedBox wrote: »

It can be hard for people to use the skeleton who are unfamiliar with it, due to how strict it is on rotation. One little slip up will plummet it's final dps score. It's often pretty inaccurate if you don't know what you're doing. I can almost guarantee they do more than 4-6k dps, and just didn't know how to use the skeleton properly.

Yes, the skeleton test is different from a dungeon boss. It just stands still and doesnt attack you.
So if someone pulls 6k on a static docile target, they would pull much less if they would need to move out of red circles, follow the boss if he's moving etc.
Of course a good skelly parse doesnt always translate into op dps in dungeons and raids, but any decent dd can get decent numbers on skeleton (because its easier than killing actual bosses).

I just mean if you Don't keep constant damage on it from the second you start to the second it's dead, your score will suffer. The dps readout loves it's aoe's, and if those two people had no aoe dealing constant damage, it will read out a significantly lower number than they are actually doing. Every second of no damage, hurts the score. So no aoe, worse final score.

But of course, im just assuming they had no aoe from what op said about how low their dps was. Now, if they DID have an aoe, and their dps readout was still that low.....well........yeah....

If they had no aoe damages set off, this thread should be more directed towards informing people of those.

Edit- sorry not aoe, meant dot.

This is nothing dummy exclusive. Every single fight works like this. You keep your dots up at all times and filler when there is time. This has nothing to do with being familiar with a dummy, it has to do with being familiar with a DPS rotation in general.

the game does a very poor job of showing new players what a dps parse is to be honest.

i would set it up in game- make every major town with a undaunted enclave have 10 target dummies in a row, make a quest around it- once u meet the undaunted, the initiation isn't to walk into spindle- but its to simply do 5 k to do a normal dungeon, then u get another quest where someone teaches u rotation, then to do a vet - u get taught how to do it again and have to hit 15k.

it'd be easy to have an npc stand there and just say-
" well done, now try layering your damage"e..,.
"have u thought about upgrading your gear?" ....
"i dont think your ready for WGT- but keep working at it... "

my point is- its the games responsibility to teach this- the floor is way to high and the ceiling now lower than ever- meaning- that NOMRAL is too easy, and VET is hard at first- but easy once you know how- so players will naturally do normal once- go to vet and think *** this is too hard. now theyre in a gaming dead zone. all that is needed is education, not everyone wants to complete a course with alcast in order to do a dungeon, they just want to walk in and muck about and have fun.

i remember when i started- the dungeons bak then weren't vet or normal, they would scale to your leader, so i was level 45 stam blade, and our leader was cp450. anyway it was dark shade caverns 1 and my first move was to cloak and ambush a nix hound and spam bombard....i didnt kill much....after wards the team carried me thru- but this experience put me off the game for a long time.


just introduce a quest that teaches damage thru the undaunted line. teaches healing, teaches tanking, its a simple walk thru guide that every game has- and this game- being the most technical i ve ever played needs it most of all- i mean who the *** knows about penetration cap and al that ***!!?!?!

bhagwad wrote: »

This is genuinely friendly advice. So try and take it as such! You should know what your DPS is. High or low, you should know.

Yesterday, I formed a guild group for vet Falkreath hold. I opted to tank since we didn't have one. I was hoping each DD would pull at least 25k for smooth run - Domihaus in enrage mode in all that! We entered the dungeon and I noticed that one of the DDs had 32k health. I expressed my concern that 32k health is almost tank levels health and that his damage would suffer. He informed us that he was using Plague Doctor. He didn't know what his DPS was.

So I invited them both to my humble mud hut to wail on the skeleton in the courtyard.

DD 1 = 4k DPS
DD 2 = 6k DPS

The thought of doing vet Falkreath with <11k group DPS freezes the blood in my veins.

So my advice to DDs is this: Just be aware of what DPS numbers you're pulling. Trust me, there is some content in the game that cannot be done with low DPS. If you've never tested it before, I can pretty much guarantee you that the number isn't as high as you might believe. The first step to improving is knowing where you stand. When I first started out, my DPS was 8k. After lots of farming for the right gear, messing about with rotations, and buffs, I can pull 27k+ minimum. And I'm 500CP, so I haven't reached the cap yet.

If you didn't know, console users can test their DPS on a skeleton. It gives a readout after you're done hitting it. If you don't have a skeleton, you can find someone who does and visit their house. Maybe your guild has such a place. Or your guild leader. Once you know that number, you will feel the need to keep pushing it higher. And you can start from there!

Ill pass on knowing what my skeleton dps is. The vast majority of content in this game has a dps requirment of like 10-15k. Anything over is overkill

notimetocare wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

This is genuinely friendly advice. So try and take it as such! You should know what your DPS is. High or low, you should know.

Yesterday, I formed a guild group for vet Falkreath hold. I opted to tank since we didn't have one. I was hoping each DD would pull at least 25k for smooth run - Domihaus in enrage mode in all that! We entered the dungeon and I noticed that one of the DDs had 32k health. I expressed my concern that 32k health is almost tank levels health and that his damage would suffer. He informed us that he was using Plague Doctor. He didn't know what his DPS was.

So I invited them both to my humble mud hut to wail on the skeleton in the courtyard.

DD 1 = 4k DPS
DD 2 = 6k DPS

The thought of doing vet Falkreath with <11k group DPS freezes the blood in my veins.

So my advice to DDs is this: Just be aware of what DPS numbers you're pulling. Trust me, there is some content in the game that cannot be done with low DPS. If you've never tested it before, I can pretty much guarantee you that the number isn't as high as you might believe. The first step to improving is knowing where you stand. When I first started out, my DPS was 8k. After lots of farming for the right gear, messing about with rotations, and buffs, I can pull 27k+ minimum. And I'm 500CP, so I haven't reached the cap yet.

If you didn't know, console users can test their DPS on a skeleton. It gives a readout after you're done hitting it. If you don't have a skeleton, you can find someone who does and visit their house. Maybe your guild has such a place. Or your guild leader. Once you know that number, you will feel the need to keep pushing it higher. And you can start from there!

Ill pass on knowing what my skeleton dps is. The vast majority of content in this game has a dps requirment of like 10-15k. Anything over is overkill

Perhaps. But it's still good to know your DPS because you don't want to sign up for something like vet Falkreath with <20k. There really is no downside in just knowing what you pull. High or low, is a different matter altogether.

I'd be interested to see proof of someone "cheesing" dummy DPS and then not being able to replicate it on nearly every boss in the game.

Over 90% of the bosses in this game can and SHOULD be tanked in one place, so I don't buy the bs that someone can "cheese" dummy DPS and not be able to pull at or above that.

I agree there are bosses with mechanics that hinder your dps, or that require those mechanics to be followed and the dps gets thrown out the window. City of Ash Titan is a good example of that because he takes 90% reduced damage when summoning the elementals.

In that same dungeon though, you can fight the troll exactly like a dummy. You can fight the two mini bosses before skoria without ever moving. You can fight the first boss (save it's teleporting mage and Archer) without moving much, having to only Dodge when he does a circle if you are melee. There's plenty more examples like this.

Fungal grotto 1, 2 save for last boss, CoH1,2 save for a few very straightforward mechanics, and not including the last boss of coh2 bc he teleports. First boss of hrc is literally tank and spank except at the end for melee. The warrior is damn near tank and spank, where you can pretty much block through all of his mechanics. The mage literally never moves from her spot, and you only ever have to switch focus for one add every so often. I could go on forever with the examples of bosses that do not NEED to move ever, as ZoS didn't put a whole lot into mechanics for the first two years of development. Vmol was the first real challenge of the game, bc it required you to do so much more than just stand still and whack a boss.

Bottom line though is that dummy DPS is a good indication of what that player can do. Even if you "cheese" 50k, he/she can still pull 50k+ on most bosses in the game. If someone's pulling 20k on a dummy, their dps isn't going to magically be 10k unless they panic when fighting and forget their rotation. If I do 40k on a dummy, my aoe will definitely be higher, and my single target might drop to 30k on a mobile fight, maybe 20k if the boss goes immune sometimes.

I disagree with the notion that dummy DPS is not indicative of said persons DPS in the real world. And I highly recommend everyone know at least where they are at. Before the skeleton there was no way to know other than timed fights based on health values against a (you guessed it) stationary target (looking at you bloodspawn), or add-ons for PC. We've been given a tool to learn with, even if ZoS won't teach us.

Not everyone is meant to be a good dps, and not everyone wants to be good dps. They just want to play the game. But there comes a point where their enjoyment becomes someone else's suffering, and that's why there should be some kind of barrier.

Absolutely, you will get uninformed people in PUGs try to say that skeleton parse doesn't matter, they literally do not know the game at all.

While the skeleton 'fight' cannot be directly compared to actual boss fights for obvious reasons, the skeleton parse is very indicative of your dps potential in true boss fights. In every way, there is a direct correlation between skeleton parse competence and actual competence as a DPS in a group.

Anyone who is interested in being a DPS in any serious way needs to get a skeleton ASAP , and start practicin'. That is one of the best ways to improve at it.

Integral1900 wrote: »

Lol

The number of dummie builds out there that get these great numbers but turn out to be useless in dungeons is quite considerable. That dummy is like having a perfect tank who keeps the boss nailed in place... not sodding likely... and a boss not prone to wandering off via mechanics... in case you hadn’t been paying attention very few bosses are prone to behaving like a plant pot. The result is massively inflated numbers, simply because it doesn’t move around and instead it just sits in the aoe damage, there are also no mechanics for you to avoid and so it ends up taking taking far more than any normal boss would. Any numbers on that dummy are going to get cut in half against a mobile boss with hazardous mechanics.

Your fancy rotations are all well and good on a dummy, but against some of the big beasts in those dungeons and especially trials it just ain’t gonna fly. I’ve lost count of the number of cocky types with their max cp and boasting huge target dummy numbers that turn out in fact to be a total liability. Sometimes I think I would rather have a group with open minded players maybe around the hundred cp mark than a load of meta addicted dummy humpers that don’t seem to know one end of a boss fight from the other

You seem to agree that a dummy DPS parse will show what you're capable of in the best of circumstances. That's a start isn't it? It means that you cannot possibly pull more than that.

So if your dummy parse is 10k, it means you know what content you can do and what you're not yet ready for. Because 10k is your absolute maximum. In the real world, it will be lower. So it's good to know your theoretical maximum.

Also, practicing on the dummy hones your muscle memory, so under stressful situations, your fingers do the work for you.

I was surprised the target dummies were such a pita to acquire. Seems like there should be one in every town and crafting area.

What the OP is basicly saying is: everyone should roll a sorcerer for dps, a dk for tanking and a templar for healing.