How much dps should I do? Magdk

devilsTear · November 2017

Okay so I'm at cp cap but I never really was into pve, I made a tank and I enjoy playing him but after only tanking in pve, doing pvp I need something else.
I decided to use my magDK since that's my main in pvp and I try to do all achievements on him, he's a dunmer so I think that's BiS.
Anyway I'm using alcast's valakas hotr build and I think I'm doing it wrong.. The best I could pull was 20k dps, I was told that's not enough so how much should I do?

jeedrzej · November 2017

I can pull 35k on my magDK

devilsTear · November 2017

jeedrzej wrote: »

I can pull 35k on my magDK

Do you have any tips for me? I don't have vma or trial gear btw.

jeedrzej · November 2017

Gear isnt so much important on magDK. Alcast's build is ok. Its matter of rotation and animation canceling

GrigorijMalahevich · November 2017

All of it

ArchMikem · November 2017

None of my characters can do more than 20k-22k at best, and thats okay. People only expect around 25k for mkst group end game content. But yes theyll expect a lot more if you want to do Trial leaderboard and achievement runs, they get real pissy about that.

DRXHarbinger · November 2017

35k is easily done. Just a matter of perfecting it. What ulti are you using? Should be using standard.

Dubhliam · November 2017

I managed to pull 32k on a non meta non vMA weapon build (DW and fire staff)

It's all about rotation (skills are important yo!)

The thing is: there are skills that last 15 sec, and skills that last 8 sec or around that time. The rotation should have that in mind, and cast the 15 sec skill only every second rotation:

>>
Elemental Blocade, Destructive Clench, Elemental Drain, Eruption, SWAP
Rearming Trap, Engulfing Flames, Flame Lash, Burning Embers, Power Lash, SWAP
Elemental Blocade, Destructive Clench, HA, Flames of Oblivion, SWAP
Flame Lash, Engulfing Flames, Burning Embers, Power Lash, SWAP
<<

Don't forget to light attack in between every skill.

Also, I am confident I will do more damage once I retrait my vMA staff and switch to flame/flame or flame/shock staff combination.
But this is just an example how non meta builds are capable of doing good DPS simply by having a good rotation of skills.

P.S.
This build is not even min maxed, I am sure I could get better results with other mundus and weapon trait combination. I just didn't care, as long as I passed the 30k mark.
EVERYONE should be able to pass 30k DPS if you plan on doing veteran endgame content.

Mureel · November 2017

Dubhliam wrote: »

I managed to pull 32k on a non meta non vMA weapon build (DW and fire staff)

It's all about rotation (skills are important yo!)

The thing is: there are skills that last 15 sec, and skills that last 8 sec or around that time. The rotation should have that in mind, and cast the 15 sec skill only every second rotation:
>>
Elemental Blocade, Destructive Clench, Elemental Drain, Eruption, SWAP
Rearming Trap, Engulfing Flames, Flame Lash, Burning Embers, Power Lash, SWAP
Elemental Blocade, Destructive Clench, HA, Flames of Oblivion, SWAP
Flame Lash, Engulfing Flames, Burning Embers, Power Lash, SWAP
<<
Don't forget to light attack in between every skill.

Also, I am confident I will do more damage once I retrait my vMA staff and switch to flame/flame or flame/shock staff combination.
But this is just an example how non meta builds are capable of doing good DPS simply by having a good rotation of skills.

P.S.
This build is not even min maxed, I am sure I could get better results with other mundus and weapon trait combination. I just didn't care, as long as I passed the 30k mark.
EVERYONE should be able to pass 30k DPS if you plan on doing veteran endgame content.

I can’t on my Magblade. Since I changed to a cheaper internet provider my siphon/la weave is just unreliable - doesn’t fire half the time - sucks. I’m trying to figure out some kind of rotation that’s more ping friendly. I can get right now max 25-27k unbuffed/without casting ele drain on skelly.

Dubhliam · November 2017

Mureel wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

I managed to pull 32k on a non meta non vMA weapon build (DW and fire staff)

It's all about rotation (skills are important yo!)

The thing is: there are skills that last 15 sec, and skills that last 8 sec or around that time. The rotation should have that in mind, and cast the 15 sec skill only every second rotation:
>>
Elemental Blocade, Destructive Clench, Elemental Drain, Eruption, SWAP
Rearming Trap, Engulfing Flames, Flame Lash, Burning Embers, Power Lash, SWAP
Elemental Blocade, Destructive Clench, HA, Flames of Oblivion, SWAP
Flame Lash, Engulfing Flames, Burning Embers, Power Lash, SWAP
<<
Don't forget to light attack in between every skill.

Also, I am confident I will do more damage once I retrait my vMA staff and switch to flame/flame or flame/shock staff combination.
But this is just an example how non meta builds are capable of doing good DPS simply by having a good rotation of skills.

P.S.
This build is not even min maxed, I am sure I could get better results with other mundus and weapon trait combination. I just didn't care, as long as I passed the 30k mark.
EVERYONE should be able to pass 30k DPS if you plan on doing veteran endgame content.

I can’t on my Magblade. Since I changed to a cheaper internet provider my siphon/la weave is just unreliable - doesn’t fire half the time - sucks. I’m trying to figure out some kind of rotation that’s more ping friendly. I can get right now max 25-27k unbuffed/without casting ele drain on skelly.

In trials you should have Harness Magicka.
No discussion - it's a must!

Therefore that skill slot is open for Elemental Drain on the skeleton dummy.
I know it might screw with your rotation a bit, but hey... having minor magickasteal on the dummy at all times will give you far more DPS than doing a poop ton of heavy attacks.

P.S.
Not to mention Major Breach if you don't already apply it.

Mureel · November 2017

Dubhliam wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

I managed to pull 32k on a non meta non vMA weapon build (DW and fire staff)

It's all about rotation (skills are important yo!)

The thing is: there are skills that last 15 sec, and skills that last 8 sec or around that time. The rotation should have that in mind, and cast the 15 sec skill only every second rotation:
>>
Elemental Blocade, Destructive Clench, Elemental Drain, Eruption, SWAP
Rearming Trap, Engulfing Flames, Flame Lash, Burning Embers, Power Lash, SWAP
Elemental Blocade, Destructive Clench, HA, Flames of Oblivion, SWAP
Flame Lash, Engulfing Flames, Burning Embers, Power Lash, SWAP
<<
Don't forget to light attack in between every skill.

Also, I am confident I will do more damage once I retrait my vMA staff and switch to flame/flame or flame/shock staff combination.
But this is just an example how non meta builds are capable of doing good DPS simply by having a good rotation of skills.

P.S.
This build is not even min maxed, I am sure I could get better results with other mundus and weapon trait combination. I just didn't care, as long as I passed the 30k mark.
EVERYONE should be able to pass 30k DPS if you plan on doing veteran endgame content.

I can’t on my Magblade. Since I changed to a cheaper internet provider my siphon/la weave is just unreliable - doesn’t fire half the time - sucks. I’m trying to figure out some kind of rotation that’s more ping friendly. I can get right now max 25-27k unbuffed/without casting ele drain on skelly.

In trials you should have Harness Magicka.
No discussion - it's a must!

Therefore that skill slot is open for Elemental Drain on the skeleton dummy.
I know it might screw with your rotation a bit, but hey... having minor magickasteal on the dummy at all times will give you far more DPS than doing a poop ton of heavy attacks.

Yeah except my point is more about my ping; not whether I can or cannot cast ele drain on a skeleton. True I could apply it but the dps difference would never make 3-5k to = 30k. The magicka steal doesn’t do it anyway, the major breach does. However, the tank is usually supplying that in raid, and healers if they’re running ele drain like they should.

As I said; I’m trying to figure out how to work around my ping issue, which is causing missing light attacks before siphons in my rotation.

Narvuntien · November 2017

I pull 22K... I reallly struggle with my magicka sustain...

i have 300 ping so I am not sure I'll ever be able to animation cancel... there is weridness where I have to press the buttons and hope that the skill worked, or accidently double cast it and lose all my magicka.

Mureel · November 2017

Narvuntien wrote: »

I pull 22K... I reallly struggle with my magicka sustain...

Just nosy; what class?

Narvuntien · November 2017

Mureel wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

I pull 22K... I reallly struggle with my magicka sustain...

Just nosy; what class?

MagDk, DPS, Dumner with Witchmothers brew. Julianos, BSW, Slimeclaw.

DRXHarbinger · November 2017

Stop using bsw. Get a SoTs on. Silks is so much better than bsw.

Mureel · November 2017

Narvuntien wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

I pull 22K... I reallly struggle with my magicka sustain...

Just nosy; what class?

MagDk, DPS, Dumner with Witchmothers brew. Julianos, BSW, Slimeclaw.

What DRX said - change to Silks of the Sun; and also yeah I feel for you. MagDk, even though many can do great DPS on, is really in a bit of a sad state right now.

Mureel · November 2017

Narvuntien wrote: »

I pull 22K... I reallly struggle with my magicka sustain...

i have 300 ping so I am not sure I'll ever be able to animation cancel... there is weridness where I have to press the buttons and hope that the skill worked, or accidently double cast it and lose all my magicka.

Also yep; high ping wrecked my Magblade dps. I could do 30-32k totally unbuffed even if I made a couple mistakes but not anymore.

Bryong9ub17_ESO · November 2017

Without animation canceling the best i can do on any of my dps characters is 20k-25k. I guess i could learn how, but it just feels too much like work. I play to enjoy the game not work, i do enough of that in real life. But for a casual player that mostly runs vet dungeons its fine and i get no complaints.

Olupajmibanan · November 2017

My best solo parse (self-Elemental drain only) on 3M target skeleton is 37k. But, Maelstrom staff adds a lot of dps to your light attack weave so you can't achieve these numbers without that.
(My best parse in full 12-man setup on target centurion is 50k.)

Without VMA staff you are good doing around 30-31k solo on 3M target skely and around 39k in full 12-man group on target centurion.

(Just in case, my build is 5-1-1: Grothdarr + Silks of the Sun - all magicka glyphs, Moondancer jewelry - all spell damage glyphs, VMA infused inferno front bar - flame glyph, Moondancer nirnhoned lightning back bar - glyph of weapon damage. I am using Witchmother's Potent Brew drink and my attributes are 64 into magicka.)

Mureel · November 2017

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

My best solo parse (self-Elemental drain only) on 3M target skeleton is 37k. But, Maelstrom staff adds a lot of dps to your light attack weave so you can't achieve these numbers without that.
(My best parse in full 12-man setup on target centurion is 50k.)

Without VMA staff you are good doing around 30-31k solo on 3M target skely and around 39k in full 12-man group on target centurion.

(Just in case, my build is 5-1-1: Grothdarr + Silks of the Sun - all magicka glyphs, Moondancer jewelry - all spell damage glyphs, VMA infused inferno front bar - flame glyph, Moondancer nirnhoned lightning back bar - glyph of weapon damage. I am using Witchmother's Potent Brew drink and my attributes are 64 into magicka.)

I know you can see the issue with gear requirement for that build.

In case you can’t:
To get into vmol with a group who knows it, several times, in order to get that jewellery is like xD if you don’t have their required DPS to join their guild in the first place. I suppose you could farm normal and use blue jewellery (and get a blue staff, that you’d have to retrait and upgrade) at a push; but personally I think if you intend to raid seriously later, don’t get used to normal raids because they’re nothing alike and the learning curve between normal and vet is not trivial.
Then you have to farm VMA for your staff as well.

That’s a long long time where you’re just twiddling your thumbs to even test your dps with your shiny new gear.

I’m not saying it’s not something that should be done because we all had to earn our gear; but it is a long slog - not to mention that most people use a very different skill load out for VMA than they do for trials.

Olupajmibanan · November 2017

Mureel wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

My best solo parse (self-Elemental drain only) on 3M target skeleton is 37k. But, Maelstrom staff adds a lot of dps to your light attack weave so you can't achieve these numbers without that.
(My best parse in full 12-man setup on target centurion is 50k.)

Without VMA staff you are good doing around 30-31k solo on 3M target skely and around 39k in full 12-man group on target centurion.

(Just in case, my build is 5-1-1: Grothdarr + Silks of the Sun - all magicka glyphs, Moondancer jewelry - all spell damage glyphs, VMA infused inferno front bar - flame glyph, Moondancer nirnhoned lightning back bar - glyph of weapon damage. I am using Witchmother's Potent Brew drink and my attributes are 64 into magicka.)

I know you can see the issue with gear requirement for that build.

In case you can’t:
To get into vmol with a group who knows it, several times, in order to get that jewellery is like xD if you don’t have their required DPS to join their guild in the first place. I suppose you could farm normal and use blue jewellery (and get a blue staff, that you’d have to retrait and upgrade) at a push; but personally I think if you intend to raid seriously later, don’t get used to normal raids because they’re nothing alike and the learning curve between normal and vet is not trivial.
Then you have to farm VMA for your staff as well.

That’s a long long time where you’re just twiddling your thumbs to even test your dps with your shiny new gear.

I’m not saying it’s not something that should be done because we all had to earn our gear; but it is a long slog - not to mention that most people use a very different skill load out for VMA than they do for trials.

Moondancer is easily replaceable with Infallible Aether which is tremendeously easy to get. Dps loss will be only like 0,2%.

Mastering light attack weave is what skyrockets dps not gear.

devilsTear · November 2017

Okay so you guys think I should swap bsw to sots then? I'll post my rotation too
Molten armaments, inferno, trap, eruption bar swap, engulfing, blockade, embers, 5 whips, blockade, 2 whips, engulfing, embers and restart.
I light attack between every skill but I don't animation cancel. My gear now is

Head light divines iceheart
Shoulders light divines julianos
Chest heavy divines julianos
Arms light divines julianos
Waist light divines bzw
Legs medium divines julianos
Feet light divines bsw
Necklace bsw
Ring bsw
Ring bsw
Infused flame staff of julianos
Nirnhoned lightning staff of julianos
I have silks too in divines so I can swap if I need to.

Mureel · November 2017

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

My best solo parse (self-Elemental drain only) on 3M target skeleton is 37k. But, Maelstrom staff adds a lot of dps to your light attack weave so you can't achieve these numbers without that.
(My best parse in full 12-man setup on target centurion is 50k.)

Without VMA staff you are good doing around 30-31k solo on 3M target skely and around 39k in full 12-man group on target centurion.

(Just in case, my build is 5-1-1: Grothdarr + Silks of the Sun - all magicka glyphs, Moondancer jewelry - all spell damage glyphs, VMA infused inferno front bar - flame glyph, Moondancer nirnhoned lightning back bar - glyph of weapon damage. I am using Witchmother's Potent Brew drink and my attributes are 64 into magicka.)

I know you can see the issue with gear requirement for that build.

In case you can’t:
To get into vmol with a group who knows it, several times, in order to get that jewellery is like xD if you don’t have their required DPS to join their guild in the first place. I suppose you could farm normal and use blue jewellery (and get a blue staff, that you’d have to retrait and upgrade) at a push; but personally I think if you intend to raid seriously later, don’t get used to normal raids because they’re nothing alike and the learning curve between normal and vet is not trivial.
Then you have to farm VMA for your staff as well.

That’s a long long time where you’re just twiddling your thumbs to even test your dps with your shiny new gear.

I’m not saying it’s not something that should be done because we all had to earn our gear; but it is a long slog - not to mention that most people use a very different skill load out for VMA than they do for trials.

Moondancer is easily replaceable with Infallible Aether which is tremendeously easy to get. Dps loss will be only like 0,2%.

Mastering light attack weave is what skyrockets dps not gear.

Yes that is true about the gear difference - but for that 4 IA is not necessarily easier to get; the trial is easier yes, so being able to get into a pug run might be a lot easier; but again, most guilds require a 30 or even 35k parse before you even get in their guilds so again, getting the content done to get the gear is catch-22ish.

Also: The people mainly talking about their dps, me but especially the one you replied to, mentioned their ping and resultant missing light attacks.

You’re correct in theory, but in praxis, your gear suggestions aren’t really going to help get people there who aren’t already.

Insanepirate01 · November 2017

37k solo parse with bsw, IA and vma lightning back bar and IA front bar inferno with regular blue food. It's all about the light attack weaves. You can sustain without heavy attacks if you use your pots right off cool down, self apply ele drain and use your ultis strategically.

If you use blockade on your shock staff bar you get a fair amount of free whips as well.

Ever since switching to lightning back and inferno front from inferno/inferno I find my sustain is a lot better and dps doesn't suffer too much.

Olupajmibanan · November 2017

Mureel wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

My best solo parse (self-Elemental drain only) on 3M target skeleton is 37k. But, Maelstrom staff adds a lot of dps to your light attack weave so you can't achieve these numbers without that.
(My best parse in full 12-man setup on target centurion is 50k.)

Without VMA staff you are good doing around 30-31k solo on 3M target skely and around 39k in full 12-man group on target centurion.

(Just in case, my build is 5-1-1: Grothdarr + Silks of the Sun - all magicka glyphs, Moondancer jewelry - all spell damage glyphs, VMA infused inferno front bar - flame glyph, Moondancer nirnhoned lightning back bar - glyph of weapon damage. I am using Witchmother's Potent Brew drink and my attributes are 64 into magicka.)

I know you can see the issue with gear requirement for that build.

In case you can’t:
To get into vmol with a group who knows it, several times, in order to get that jewellery is like xD if you don’t have their required DPS to join their guild in the first place. I suppose you could farm normal and use blue jewellery (and get a blue staff, that you’d have to retrait and upgrade) at a push; but personally I think if you intend to raid seriously later, don’t get used to normal raids because they’re nothing alike and the learning curve between normal and vet is not trivial.
Then you have to farm VMA for your staff as well.

That’s a long long time where you’re just twiddling your thumbs to even test your dps with your shiny new gear.

I’m not saying it’s not something that should be done because we all had to earn our gear; but it is a long slog - not to mention that most people use a very different skill load out for VMA than they do for trials.

Moondancer is easily replaceable with Infallible Aether which is tremendeously easy to get. Dps loss will be only like 0,2%.

Mastering light attack weave is what skyrockets dps not gear.

Yes that is true about the gear difference - but for that 4 IA is not necessarily easier to get; the trial is easier yes, so being able to get into a pug run might be a lot easier; but again, most guilds require a 30 or even 35k parse before you even get in their guilds so again, getting the content done to get the gear is catch-22ish.

Also: The people mainly talking about their dps, me but especially the one you replied to, mentioned their ping and resultant missing light attacks.

You’re correct in theory, but in praxis, your gear suggestions aren’t really going to help get people there who aren’t already.

You can still run willpower jewelry and do just fine.

A friend of mine got magDK with Groth, Sun, Willpower and crafted non-set staves. So I tested it myself.
Result: 31k solo parse on 3M skely.

It's only about practice.

Advice: put blockade on front bar. This way you have to go to back bar only once every 18 seconds.

Flameheart · November 2017

A few weeks ago I did 33k with SoS and no vMA staff. Now I have BSW + infused vMA and nirnhorned Moondancer lightning staff in my back bar. I guess it should be well over 35k now. On a training run with a whole raid - so raidbuffed - using a 50 million centurio dummy as target I got 44k dps and I know that I did even weaving mistakes.

All I can say is that a vMA staff makes a real difference. Raidbuffed it's somewhere between 3k to 5k dps.

The art lies in strict LA weaving in between skill executes (especially if you have a vMA staff) and 75 CPs in Thaumaturg to get the Exploiter star and lots of lightning walls from your Sorcs and healers for happy Power Lashing (while having no sustain issues as a side effect).

FloppyTouch · November 2017

I been practicing myself a lot useing same build can only hit 27k I run out of magic and not enough proc whips. So no guild wants a trash mdk can’t get into any raiding guild. Best to roll a stam dk I guess.

Narvuntien · November 2017

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Stop using bsw. Get a SoTs on. Silks is so much better than bsw.

I ran a parse with Suns just before the serve came down.. I am not sure 22.4K is classified as so much better, better sure okay. I am a little supprised that it was better to be honest. BSW has more spell crit and crit is really important.

DRXHarbinger · November 2017

Narvuntien wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Stop using bsw. Get a SoTs on. Silks is so much better than bsw.

I ran a parse with Suns just before the serve came down.. I am not sure 22.4K is classified as so much better, better sure okay. I am a little supprised that it was better to be honest. BSW has more spell crit and crit is really important.

Crit isn't the be all and end all. I find a magdk is better with big raw stats. Moondancer over IA. Has more max magika and spell damage. You could also run 5 moondancer with back bar staff, 5 sun with front staff and 1pc Grothdarr and 1pc Domihaus.

Mureel · November 2017

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

My best solo parse (self-Elemental drain only) on 3M target skeleton is 37k. But, Maelstrom staff adds a lot of dps to your light attack weave so you can't achieve these numbers without that.
(My best parse in full 12-man setup on target centurion is 50k.)

Without VMA staff you are good doing around 30-31k solo on 3M target skely and around 39k in full 12-man group on target centurion.

(Just in case, my build is 5-1-1: Grothdarr + Silks of the Sun - all magicka glyphs, Moondancer jewelry - all spell damage glyphs, VMA infused inferno front bar - flame glyph, Moondancer nirnhoned lightning back bar - glyph of weapon damage. I am using Witchmother's Potent Brew drink and my attributes are 64 into magicka.)

I know you can see the issue with gear requirement for that build.

In case you can’t:
To get into vmol with a group who knows it, several times, in order to get that jewellery is like xD if you don’t have their required DPS to join their guild in the first place. I suppose you could farm normal and use blue jewellery (and get a blue staff, that you’d have to retrait and upgrade) at a push; but personally I think if you intend to raid seriously later, don’t get used to normal raids because they’re nothing alike and the learning curve between normal and vet is not trivial.
Then you have to farm VMA for your staff as well.

That’s a long long time where you’re just twiddling your thumbs to even test your dps with your shiny new gear.

I’m not saying it’s not something that should be done because we all had to earn our gear; but it is a long slog - not to mention that most people use a very different skill load out for VMA than they do for trials.

Moondancer is easily replaceable with Infallible Aether which is tremendeously easy to get. Dps loss will be only like 0,2%.

Mastering light attack weave is what skyrockets dps not gear.

Yes that is true about the gear difference - but for that 4 IA is not necessarily easier to get; the trial is easier yes, so being able to get into a pug run might be a lot easier; but again, most guilds require a 30 or even 35k parse before you even get in their guilds so again, getting the content done to get the gear is catch-22ish.

Also: The people mainly talking about their dps, me but especially the one you replied to, mentioned their ping and resultant missing light attacks.

You’re correct in theory, but in praxis, your gear suggestions aren’t really going to help get people there who aren’t already.

You can still run willpower jewelry and do just fine.

A friend of mine got magDK with Groth, Sun, Willpower and crafted non-set staves. So I tested it myself.
Result: 31k solo parse on 3M skely.

It's only about practice.

Advice: put blockade on front bar. This way you have to go to back bar only once every 18 seconds.

Ping. Please check your friend has 300+ ping. bad ping causes issues with some la weaves.

I've been discussing the other stuff with you as a matter of discussion; but even after all that the issue at hand is ping.

If you see any of my DPS related posts I am always about Rotation/Practise. Ping is a jerk though - especially for fire staves (DK) and siphon weaves (NB).

ArchMikem · November 2017

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Moondancer is easily replaceable with Infallible Aether which is tremendeously easy to get. Dps loss will be only like 0,2%.

I'd really like to know why you think it's "tremendously easy" to get, when it's a Trial set. Especially if one needs the Jewelry, then it's a Vet Trial Set.