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Do you Rely on Healers Using Ele Drain?

bhagwad
bhagwad
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In all the skelly parses I've seen with high DPS numbers, the streamers make the following assumptions:

1. Tank will provide Ebon health, so 16k health is enough
2. Healer (or someone else) will put ele drain, so no need to slot it

So in my experience, around 20% of tanks will use Ebon (perhaps less). Around 10% of healers will use ele drain.

Ergo, chances of getting tank with Ebon + Healer with ele drain = LoL.

Even when I get a healer with ele drain, I often see the boss without it. So that's not a guarantee either.

So when you build your DPS character and show skelly parses, why do you assume perfect conditions? In the real world, you will need to have some extra health, ele drain, harness/absorb magicka etc, which will bring down your DPS.

Should you take all that into consideration?
  • Apache_Kid
    Apache_Kid
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    If you are running with PUGs then yes. I have to account for these things.
  • Turelus
    Turelus
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    Most wise players do take it into consideration, when I look at the latest Alcast information I note what conditions he does it under and that his trials groups will have much better uptime on buffs than mine.

    In theory though an organised trials group should be build around these expectations and people should be organised into bringing or doing what's required.
    Everyone should be working on expectations of what their groups can achieve not on perfect situations. If you have bad uptime on resource skills from your team, have people bring a bit more self sustain until it improves with practice etc.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
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  • PrinceShroob
    PrinceShroob
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    As a healer, I often don't slot Elemental Drain because it does nothing for stamina-based DPS. If I had a skill that provided Staminasteal instead, I'd slot the skill more often.
  • Saphorius
    Saphorius
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    Most Builds are optimized for vTrials where these conditions are the norm
  • amasuriel
    amasuriel
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    Ebon I agree, because grinding the gear can be challenging, and there are lots of 4 man tank builds that offer different utility; Ebon is crazy in trials because it adds 12k group health. In 4 man it's 4k, which is still really good but not the only choice.

    Ele Drain on the other hand is a low bar. IMO I don't think it's unreasonable to ask the healer to run Ele Drain or Radiant Aura (if Templar) in all veteran content. Unless they are also doing DPS as well they should have plenty of slots free, and it has a 20 second cooldown, so it's not magicka intensive. Assuming there are magicka DPS of course.

    Normal who cares, and who cares about the build parse, decent DPS will annihilate everything before Magicka is an issue.
  • ArchMikem
    ArchMikem
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    I put Elemental Drain on my Templar when I heal, but then again it's pretty pointless to do so when both your DPS are Stamina.
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  • Rainraven
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    bhagwad wrote: »
    So when you build your DPS character and show skelly parses, why do you assume perfect conditions? In the real world, you will need to have some extra health, ele drain, harness/absorb magicka etc, which will bring down your DPS.

    Should you take all that into consideration?

    Who are you talking to? :o Just the supersmall percentage of players who share builds and build advice, or everybody?

    Anyway, in case it's everybody: no, I don't rely on the healer slotting ele drain. My expectations for the healer are really low, so most people surprise me with extras and I can adjust what I'm doing to go ahead and lean on them. But I also don't do raids and am not high-tier in PVP (lol) so I can see it might be different for those guys. It's been a long time since they didn't have whatever backing they might want or need, I imagine. They talk about what they know. shrug
  • paulsimonps
    paulsimonps
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    There is an easy fix for this. DO. NOT. PUG.

    If you want optimized set ups you need to realize that you are not just optimizing yourself, you are optimizing as a group. Sure you can do the best you can solo but it won't be as good as if you do the best you can as a group.
  • FloppyTouch
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    I’ll run it on my mdk when I pug I have a flex spot and sustaining is already hard but if there is a healer I’ll take it off for more dps abilities.
  • pod88kk
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    In a trial where most of the people are magicka dds then yeah it'd be a benefit to obviously
  • EvilCroc
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    As an owner of healer main I prefer Siphon Spirit over eledrain. Eledrain is pointless if tank use pierce armor (most of them do), but siphon spirit in addition to magickasteal provides lifesteal, which is good for keeping SPC on.
  • SammyFable
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    You forgot the 3rd assumption: You are in a raid guild with organized groups.
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  • ArterionAU
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    I rarely PUG but if I were and the Healer wasn't running Ele drain, I'd politely ask if they had it and could run it, If they can't for whatever reason then I would slot it for boss fights on one of my Mag DPS. But like others have said if you want an optimised group it's best to run with a Guild rather then PUG.
    Founder of the Victorious Brotherhood
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  • SirAndy
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    bhagwad wrote: »
    Should you take all that into consideration?
    If you want to run trials, no. If you want to run dungeons with a fixed group, no.
    If you just want to pug or solo, then yes.

    I never measure DPS with any group buffs/debuffs, what-so-ever, only self buffed.
    Because that's the number i can pull without anyone else's help.

    It can only get better from there, so for me that's the perfect baseline ...
    shades.gif
    Edited by SirAndy on November 11, 2017 2:01AM
  • WrathOfInnos
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    The assumption that Ebon and ele drain will be supplied is a valid one for the hardest end-game content. This will be a coordinated group with all the essential buffs/debuffs supplied, and no redundancies. This is also the most important scenario to optimize builds around.

    Nobody with an effective build plans around PUGs. Buffs are unpredictable and you would end up losing DPS in trials. Dungeons are easy enough that you don't have to be optimized around the group makeup or content.

    That being said, when ending up in a random group with no ele drain it's usually worth giving up something to slot it. For health, I usually just end up relying more on shields if Ebon/Warhorn are not used. I suppose something like Valkyn Skoria or TBS could be used in these situations to make up some lost health. I'm 100% sure that nobody is going to re-enchant armor or respec attributes just because they ended up in a group with a lackluster tank or healer.
    Edited by WrathOfInnos on November 11, 2017 2:09AM
  • Linaleah
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    I have been attempting to run ele drain on my healers since "that's what good healers do"

    at the moment characters that got anywhere near the kind of content that will genuinely benefit from it are templar and the sorc.

    having elemental drain on my sorc means sacrificing something else, since I have to dedicate 2 ability slots to matriarch and that usually ends up being elemental blockade. because I tend not to run with perfect and min maxed groups my ability to guarantee 100% uptame for elemental drain is .. not good. it doesn't help that I have yet to find a reliable way of tracking it other then watching for that tiny rotating flame animation around my target - which is also a crapshoot. oh and lastly my chances of running with 2 magicka dps are also a crapshoot.

    having elemental drain on my templar surprisingly also means that I have to sacrifice some other useful utility ability, and to be honest, I have found radiant aura to be a much better option for minor magicka steal not to mention its benefit and ease of use for ME, assuming my tank is taunting, so debuff portion of the elemental drain is covered.

    now I'm sure in an organized group, especially trials group where everyone is minmaxed to perfectly synergize with each other - elemental drain is far more useful. in my experience. I'm about to end this silly experiment and just use something that I personaly in my particular situations find more useful.
    dirty worthless casual.
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  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    EvilCroc wrote: »
    As an owner of healer main I prefer Siphon Spirit over eledrain. Eledrain is pointless if tank use pierce armor (most of them do), but siphon spirit in addition to magickasteal provides lifesteal, which is good for keeping SPC on.

    Eledrain is better because it is free, SS cost magic and costs 1.5 seconds of time. Then there is MLS, I mean it is okay for procing SPC and I use it on my warden through leaching vines but don't count on it to save anybody. Also I guess a pro about SS and MLS, is that it will hit more then 6 players, I am pretty sure that is the only heal in the game that does.
  • Narvuntien
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    I slot it if I notice my healer doesn't have it.

    I have a few flex slots, but typically I am losing something else to slot it.. Resistances, Sheilds or have use spell power pots (which are expensive) rather sloting a skill to get major sorcery.

    I never rely on tanks having ebon, 17K hp or die.
  • zaria
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    ArchMikem wrote: »
    I put Elemental Drain on my Templar when I heal, but then again it's pretty pointless to do so when both your DPS are Stamina.
    It still helps you, both increased regen so you can do more heal, support and damage, it adds to you dps.
    I was once asked in an pug why I used it then both DD was stamina and I said I used it for myself.
    Honestly I had not thought of it. Its last 20 seconds so its easy to keep up.



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  • WuffyCerulei
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    I don't expect pugs to. With friends or a vet trial group, I most certainly do.
    "Buzz Lightyear toy isle shot" Stormcalling/Animal Companions/Assassination PVP build hater

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  • MehrunesFlagon
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    No magicka steal= vote to kick
  • IronCrystal
    IronCrystal
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    If I (the healer) am not supplying ele drain, then either magicka is DEAD and everyone is stamina builds, or I fell asleep at the keyboard.

    You can always expect to have a trial setup exactly the way you want it to if its an organized guild run.
    Edited by IronCrystal on November 11, 2017 5:03AM
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  • Oakmontowls_ESO
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    I'd expect any competent healer to run it and I run it when I am healing. Even if there are no magika dps in the group I still benefit from it and it's not going to hurt if the tank and dps have a little bit of extra magika in case they need it.
  • Morgul667
    Morgul667
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    I do
  • xSkullfox
    xSkullfox
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    In normal content no, veteran yes.
    Groupfinder:
    The worst part is when it finally puts you in a group, your healer turns into a werewolf, your tank has 14k HP and the dps is heavy armor, using a restro staff and a two handed sword on the backbar. Then comes the 15 minute penalty before the cycle starts anew.

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  • doslekis
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    I slot ele drain on my healer, some bosses and groups I can keep it up 100% of the time.

    But if you put me with a bad pug group on the final boss of falkreath hold, I'll be spending so much time keeping everyone alive I won't have a second to hit the boss with ele or lay down an elemental blockade.
    I don't normally use daggers, but when I do, I choose dos Lekis.
  • radiostar
    radiostar
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    For pugs I don't always use a Destro staff on my healer
    "Billions upon Billions of Stars"
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