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Is Unattended macro farming a resource node NOT against the rules?

  • nnargun
    nnargun
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    I imagine woodpeckers being pretty harsh on my keyboard/gamepad. Don't wanna buy new hardware every couple of days. Maybe a little protection on their beaks would do though. Like a boxing glove but super tiny.
    [PC EU][GERMAN][ENGLISH][730~ CP]
    Flawless Conquerer - vHoF HM - vAS+1 - vMoL - vCR
    the Kuhn - Dunmer - MagNB
    Samjuel-EL - Orc - StamNB
    Son Hala - Altmer - MagSorc
    Draxyl - Argonian - Warden
  • nnargun
    nnargun
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    Aha! I knew this had to be a thing. It's too obvious:

    fixed_mouth_guard.jpg
    [PC EU][GERMAN][ENGLISH][730~ CP]
    Flawless Conquerer - vHoF HM - vAS+1 - vMoL - vCR
    the Kuhn - Dunmer - MagNB
    Samjuel-EL - Orc - StamNB
    Son Hala - Altmer - MagSorc
    Draxyl - Argonian - Warden
  • Kozato
    Kozato
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    nnargun wrote: »
    Aha! I knew this had to be a thing. It's too obvious:

    fixed_mouth_guard.jpg

    Why does that exist
  • nnargun
    nnargun
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    Looks like an analogous cheating engine to me.
    [PC EU][GERMAN][ENGLISH][730~ CP]
    Flawless Conquerer - vHoF HM - vAS+1 - vMoL - vCR
    the Kuhn - Dunmer - MagNB
    Samjuel-EL - Orc - StamNB
    Son Hala - Altmer - MagSorc
    Draxyl - Argonian - Warden
  • zaria
    zaria
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    Kozato wrote: »
    nnargun wrote: »
    Aha! I knew this had to be a thing. It's too obvious:

    fixed_mouth_guard.jpg

    Why does that exist
    that is an very good question.
    Tread is now derailed
    Edited by zaria on November 10, 2017 11:29AM
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • Milvan
    Milvan
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    SIMPSON SOMEHOW FORESAW THAT TOO

    giphy.gif


    “Kings of the land and the sky we are; proud gryphons.” Stalker stands, the epitome of pride. Naked and muscular, his wings widen and his feet dig in as if he alone holds down the earth and supports the heavens, keeping the two ever separate.”
    Gryphons guild - @Milvan,
  • krachall
    krachall
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    And...he's back!

    Same player, same node, and autolooting is working again.
  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
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    krachall wrote: »
    And...he's back!

    Same player, same node, and autolooting is working again.

    So, now we wonder. Did his inventory fill up, preventing him from moving, he got logged off, and it took until now for the Bot Master to notice? Did the Bot Master write a routine to offload inventory before deploying him again?

    XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
    Total in-game hours: 11321
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • idk
    idk
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    ToS and whatever have little to do with this. Zos just puts little resources into combating bots. At least little compared to what is actually required.

    Remember that thread a few weeks ago showing a GM in the wild. He said he was there to bust bots and they usually work behind the scenes.

    If they usually work behind the scenes then it's not often or they need an actual effective means to fulfill their role.
  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
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    idk wrote: »
    ToS and whatever have little to do with this. Zos just puts little resources into combating bots. At least little compared to what is actually required.

    Remember that thread a few weeks ago showing a GM in the wild. He said he was there to bust bots and they usually work behind the scenes.

    If they usually work behind the scenes then it's not often or they need an actual effective means to fulfill their role.

    I am still of the opinion that the majority of the timely bot handling in this game is done by volunteers in the Studio, on thier own time. The standing ToS Team does some stuff every day, but they are understaffed and overworked and are generally ineffective at stemming the tide of cheating and botting in the game in a timely manner.

    The bot hunting they did a couple weeks ago smells a lot like an employee vigilante on their own time. If they do it too much, their bosses might wonder whether they are getting their real work done. This explains why we rarely see them.

    ZOS has a lot of great people, but the Studio lacks stamina for anything they have not planned. They can do burst activities, like banning bots, or even communicating with us, but they get tired easily and have to stop and rest for a while. The Studio nerfed their own sustain years ago. :smile:

    Edit: I want to make it clear that I do think they eventually do get to the bot reports. Most of them, at least. Grahtwood bots around Brackenleaf tend to dissappear pretty quickly. Bots in Shadowfen can run for weeks. I have been watching one bot there since August, and while that is unusual, it is not unheard of in this game.
    Edited by Elsonso on November 10, 2017 6:29PM
    XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
    Total in-game hours: 11321
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
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    coop500 wrote: »
    This one makes a good point, his crafting level would have to be maxed to get the fancy CP 160 stuff. At level 5 you get jute.

    What prevents a level 5 from doing a couple of skyshard runs and maxing out Clothier at 50 thus getting end game mats?
    And if it's an alt character, he can have the CPs in the Harvester passive that gives more mats.
    confused24.gif
  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
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    krachall wrote: »
    And...he's back!
    Same player, same node, and autolooting is working again.
    So, now we wonder. Did his inventory fill up, preventing him from moving, he got logged off, and it took until now for the Bot Master to notice? Did the Bot Master write a routine to offload inventory before deploying him again?

    With ESO+, the inventory wouldn't be an issue ...
    shades.gif
  • Deheart
    Deheart
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    If automatic spamming with a stave at dolmens is a bannable offense, then so is farming a resource node automatically.
    As a casual player I was satisfied that at one point I had a char max level and near max crafting with almost all motifs and I pretty much lost interest. Then ESO discovered DLC's and now my main is just a wanabe and I am happily pulled back into the game.
  • prototypefb
    prototypefb
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    few years back i was against this kind of behaviour(botting) but in this case it doesn't necessary hurt any1, bots flood market with mats and tempers, prices drop, every1 have easier access to items.

    i used to play korean game where botting was not illegal, it was a feature of the game, and it was great - set up group of guildies for the night to farm , while you sleep/work, enjoy rewards when you come back from work.
  • Chronicburn
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    I think advanced bots that run around and do cool stuff while you can’t play are cool. They take a lot of work to create and set up.

    HOWEVER

    stupid macros where you just sit in one place hitting the same resource so no one else can are inconsiderate and lazy, and should be dealt with harshly.
  • Ruckly
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    If you are a member of the proletariat you can not macro a resource node. I you are rich you can buy everything in the game with $$$. If you watch netflix while pressing E repeatedly your attention is not on the resource node you are farming. It is on netflix. You are committing a thought crime. Doing the same thing over and over and over and over and being attentive to said operation to get desired items carries with it a cost both in time and indoctrinated insanity. Remove that cost and items gathered lose their value within the commandments set forth by the games jurisdiction.

    IMO who cares. The only real cost is electricity and wear and tear. For the sake of real economic and environmental conservation a player should simply be kicked off node if they farm it three times successively. If they do the same with exp mobs give diminishing returns.
  • Ruckly
    Ruckly
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    If you want something to pass the time while farming nodes listen to this. You might learn something.

    https://archive.org/details/walden_librivox
  • PlagueSD
    PlagueSD
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    Slick_007 wrote: »
    if you drop the warden ability in the right spot will he teleport to you?

    It's a synergy ability, if it wasn't, EVERY warden out there would be doing that.

    Summon an ancient portal. An enemy that runs over it is teleported to you and rooted for 2 seconds. An ally can activate the Frozen Retreat synergy to move to you. You can only have 1 portal at a time and it is removed upon activation.
    Grants allies in the area a synergy that moves them to you.
  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
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    There are other bots running in Bal Foyen. The way to tell is the Chest to Resource ratio. If there are a lot of chests, but few resources, the likelyhood of bots is greater.
    Edited by Elsonso on November 11, 2017 3:43PM
    XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
    Total in-game hours: 11321
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
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    He moved to a node closer to the path. I wonder if this one spawns faster.
    XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
    Total in-game hours: 11321
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • Mureel
    Mureel
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    KRBMMO wrote: »
    Mureel wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    @Mureel the only official information I know on interaction with character is the post by Jess quoted below. I am not aware of them updating this, however I could be wrong.
    Her reply doesn't state you can't sit and hold a button but it's likely they're going to mistake your behaviour for automation.
    Hi everyone,

    We know there have been a lot of questions recently about botting, automated play, what’s a Terms of Service Violation and what isn’t, and what we’re doing to combat TOS-violating behavior. We’d like to answer some of those questions and provide insight.

    Per our Terms of Service, this is the definition of botting and automated play:
    Utilizing automation for your character is a violation of our Terms of Service. This is defined as taking action on your character, without human input, to further advance your progress in the game. Which is considered botting.

    Recently, some of you have asked if it’s okay to put tape or a rubber band on your controller. The short answer is “No.” Automating your character in any way, including placing tape or a rubber-band on a console controller, is considered a violation of our Terms of Service, and action may be taken on your account. You must be actively controlling your character.

    In regards to our efforts to combat botting and automated play, we’re tackling it on two fronts: Game Development and Customer Support.

    On the Game Development front, we are auditing the monsters that are most commonly targeted by those who bot and automate play to ensure the spawn timers are what they should be. As we find them, we’re fixing any monsters that are instantly re-spawning or on a spawn timer that is shorter than intended.

    On the Customer Support side of things, our Terms of Service team suspends and bans accounts daily. We review all TOS reports that we receive, and prioritize the investigations of accounts that have received multiple complaints. We regularly send our Support Agents in-game to watch high-traffic areas such as Dolmens, and take action on any violators we identify. We turn over identified “black marketeers” and repeat offenders to Sony and Microsoft, which sometimes results in a ban of the individual’s PlayStation 4 or Xbox One. We also do other secret things. ;)

    So how can you help us with our efforts to get rid of those who are botting and/or automating their characters? Reporting them to us is a huge help, and we do review every ticket we receive.

    Here are some steps for using the in-game reporting tools:

    On PC/Mac
    Radial Menu
    Reporting players via the radial menu is the preferred method. Walk up to the player you wish to report and Press [F] to open the radial menu. Select “Report Player” then let go of [F] to open the Report Player window. Press [E] to report the player for botting, or [R] to open the Ticket Creation page.

    Chat Window
    You can also Right-click on a player character name in their chat window and choose the “Report Player” option.

    Press [E] to report a player for chat spam, including spamming gold sales advertisements. This will automatically send a report and does not require you to open and fill out a ticket.

    Press [R] to report another player for something unrelated to spam. Choosing this option opens the Ticket Creation page.


    On PS4/Xbox One
    Radial Menu
    As with PC/Mac, reporting players via the radial menu is preferred. Simply walk up to the player you wish to report and press the [Menu] button on Xbox One or [Options] button on PlayStation 4 to open the radial menu. Select “Report Player” then let go of [Menu] or [Options] to open the Report Player window.

    Customer Service Menu
    Navigate to the Player Menu ([Menu] on Xbox One or [Options]) on PlayStation 4 and find the Help Menu.
    From there, select the Customer Service Menu and proceed to fill out a ticket under the appropriate category type.

    Please provide the following information when reporting another player:
    • The name of the player you are reported
    • The reason why you are reporting them (Spam, Botting, or Harassment)
    • The time of the incident
    • The megaserver that the reported player is playing on
    If you wish to include visual proof of the violation, such as screenshots or video footage, simply reply to your Support Ticket to update it and add the files.

    We hope this info helps – thank you for being a part of our community and continuing to report any potential TOS violations you see!

    Exactly. :) I don';t ever just farm one node I would die! but yeah - I like people to cite the source if they make claims like that one because I know they cannot tell me I cannot sit here and press a button myself.

    If you say you sit in a chair for more than eight hours and just press one button I call you a liar. Show me a 8-hour video of you staring at a screen pressing only one button or shut up.

    Or better yet send me your address and I'll send you a box of tissue when you get banned.

    Well I sure as hell don't lol - and I never said I did - I would rather slide down a razor blade into a vat of spicy mustard than farm at all; so lolno. I steal and loot urns for my gold and farm only when necessary for flowers for pots - but I mainly just buy those, too.

    I also could absolutely not see making a macro to farm a plant because pfft. Whatever.

    My point was; do not tell me that ZOS SAID that sitting here for 8 hours pressing a button is against TOS because it's not. Makign something else do it for me, whilst I'm off AFK however, IS.
    Edited by Mureel on November 12, 2017 7:30PM
  • GrigorijMalahevich
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    Azurya wrote: »
    have you ever seen a GM ingame?

    me neither, so yeah, it doesn´t bother ZOS. And that is it.

    I have played MMO´s where there were lots of GM, always around visiting areas and looking things up.
    was a smooth one but really an exception.

    Haha, this must be the biggest fail in the world. No GM would ever walk aroubd without invisibility... why should they be visible to you? :smiley:
    PC/EU 800 CP.
    PvP MagSorc.
    Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
    Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
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  • Mureel
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    SFDB wrote: »
    Let me ask: I work and play on the same PC, sometimes both at the same time (e.g., do some work, do my writ, do some work, head to the bank, do some work, fish out a hole). When mats run low I've thought about parking in front of a node, and do some work, check and see if node spawned, then back again, harvesting if it's there but only if I'm now actively back in the game (because the login time is too impractically long to just log out and then back in).

    So, and this is just a question: would you say there's nothing wrong with being AFK so long as you're not doing anything until you are actively involved in the game (even if it's only for five to ten seconds)?

    I am always working in a different screen, pop back, see if my 50 baked potatoes have finished cooking (multicraft add on), pop back, did I get a group yet? Pop back, was that DING my motif selling? xD so yeah, you can stand wherever you want - but you cannot interfere with the logoff thing by making your char do actions without you and you cannot make it do anything by means which do not include your interaction - your appendage/s of choice, need/s to be physically responsible for every keystroke/mouse click. lol.

    I often when am waiting to hear from someone or get a mail, I am working out of screen, so I click back and mash the space bar every few mins during that time, because I don't want to be logged off and have to log back on blah blah.
  • Elsonso
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    Mureel wrote: »
    SFDB wrote: »
    Let me ask: I work and play on the same PC, sometimes both at the same time (e.g., do some work, do my writ, do some work, head to the bank, do some work, fish out a hole). When mats run low I've thought about parking in front of a node, and do some work, check and see if node spawned, then back again, harvesting if it's there but only if I'm now actively back in the game (because the login time is too impractically long to just log out and then back in).

    So, and this is just a question: would you say there's nothing wrong with being AFK so long as you're not doing anything until you are actively involved in the game (even if it's only for five to ten seconds)?

    I am always working in a different screen, pop back, see if my 50 baked potatoes have finished cooking (multicraft add on), pop back, did I get a group yet? Pop back, was that DING my motif selling? xD so yeah, you can stand wherever you want - but you cannot interfere with the logoff thing by making your char do actions without you and you cannot make it do anything by means which do not include your interaction - your appendage/s of choice, need/s to be physically responsible for every keystroke/mouse click. lol.

    I often when am waiting to hear from someone or get a mail, I am working out of screen, so I click back and mash the space bar every few mins during that time, because I don't want to be logged off and have to log back on blah blah.

    Personally, I consider some crafting automation to be an unattended play cheat. A player can set this up and wander off to do other things, even if on the same computer. Using automation to do a couple quickly is probably not going to be a problem, but making 50 baked potatoes is just begging to be AFK while you do that.

    I guess that ZOS does not agree that this is a problem, or they are simply choosing to look the other way. I would be happy if they would come out and say exactly how far we can go with add-on automation, though. Following that, enforce it.

    XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
    Total in-game hours: 11321
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • vovus69
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    So, the question is whether this guy is under human control or not. It is easy - gather a bunch of mobs and bring it to the guy. If mobs will kill them and he will not move, he is a bot. If he will do something - he is under control of the human... It is especially easy in Craglorn. Bunch of welwas will do this for you :)

    -vovus
    "If I'll need your opinion, I'll give one to you" - Rivenspire
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