How do you cope with the extremely rotation-centric combat?

Stonyfoot · November 2017

You have to have that X0,000 points of DPS or you won't get to play any of the endgame activities: The way you achieve it is by repeating the skill rotation like a robot, glitching through every animation possible, hour after hour. The combat often feels like a bad quick time event or a reaction time test instead of fighting an actual opponent... So how do you keep yourself interested after months or years of playing?

Kikke · November 2017

You dont. Somewere along the ride you would stop yourself too ask why, were the only real answer is that it never really did matter in the end.

DocFrost72 · November 2017

Because a rotation isn't nearly as simple as you're making it. For instance, if all I did was stand and deliver my "fantastic" single target dps in hrc on my stamplar, The air atro would carve me from chin to belly button with his spin attack.

There are definitely tank and spank fights, but certainly not the majority, and certainly not without segments of the fight where you need to think on your feet or die.

AcadianPaladin · November 2017

My focus is not dps, but I imagine @DocFrost72 is correct - a dps cannot simply stand still and crank the same rotation mindless of how bosses react I should think. If a boss goes rogue and is running, for example, ground-based AoE DoTs are wasted and direct targeted skills become more effective.

As a healer, I don't do rotations. Yes there are patterns that I often combine rapidly, but a healer is completely reactive to not only the boss but also their team. Yes, I want to keep my HoTs, buffs and debuffs going full time but targeted and/or burst heals are completely reactive to allied health bars. Adding some dps only comes into play if no one is struggling to stay alive. Way too many variables to rote cast a rotation. Practice under fire seems to be the best method of getting smoother and more responsive as a healer.

Erraln · November 2017

Stonyfoot wrote: »

You have to have that X0,000 points of DPS or you won't get to play any of the endgame activities: The way you achieve it is by repeating the skill rotation like a robot, glitching through every animation possible, hour after hour. The combat often feels like a bad quick time event or a reaction time test instead of fighting an actual opponent... So how do you keep yourself interested after months or years of playing?

Man, if you think so harshly about this game's animation cancelling, you'd better stay away from fighting game tournaments.

LordGavus · November 2017

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Because a rotation isn't nearly as simple as you're making it. For instance, if all I did was stand and deliver my "fantastic" single target dps in hrc on my stamplar, The air atro would carve me from chin to belly button with his spin attack.

There are definitely tank and spank fights, but certainly not the majority, and certainly not without segments of the fight where you need to think on your feet or die.

This.
The thing that is challenging is maintaining your rotation, or as close to it as you can, while coping with boss/fight mechanics.

Also, if you find dps too easy or boring try playing a healer or tank for a bit. Changing play style should help keep you engaged.

Sixty5 · November 2017

You take a break, and go play some PVP where you spasmically toss out combos left and right instead.

idk · November 2017

Stonyfoot wrote: »

You have to have that X0,000 points of DPS or you won't get to play any of the endgame activities: The way you achieve it is by repeating the skill rotation like a robot, glitching through every animation possible, hour after hour. The combat often feels like a bad quick time event or a reaction time test instead of fighting an actual opponent... So how do you keep yourself interested after months or years of playing?

This comment is incorrect.

First, if considering trials an end game activity, there are three different difficulty levels which all have their own needs. On top of that there are various types of guilds that each have their own goal. Anyone can clear trials. It just takes finding the guild you fit into well and understand which level of difficulty is appropriate for you and your character you wish to play.

Second, ESO is no more or less rotation centric than any other MMORPG worth it's salt. It is probably less rotation centric that other games that require a player to use X skill followed by Y skill to get a proc that makes using Z skill worthwhile. If you want decent DPS in any game you must have an appropriate setup and have a solid rotation.

Third, there is no glitching animations. You may be considering animation canceling which is most certainly not a glitch. It is blessed by Zos as an honest game mechanic. There is not style of ani canceling that can be shorter than the GCD built into using skills.

Regardless of what someone focuses on for end game content, it is an MMO and mostly about playing with others that you enjoy running with. That is a huge part of an MMORPG. For many that do the end game trials it is also about getting better. Improving oneself gameplay and as well as the group improving.

If none of this fits the bill then an MMO may not be your cup of tea.

EDIT: Considering OP has not commented further in the hours since he created this thread I think this was just a rant, or he had to crash or go to work.

Stonyfoot · November 2017

idk wrote: »

Stonyfoot wrote: »

You have to have that X0,000 points of DPS or you won't get to play any of the endgame activities: The way you achieve it is by repeating the skill rotation like a robot, glitching through every animation possible, hour after hour. The combat often feels like a bad quick time event or a reaction time test instead of fighting an actual opponent... So how do you keep yourself interested after months or years of playing?

EDIT: Considering OP has not commented further in the hours since he created this thread I think this was just a rant, or he had to crash or go to work.

All three, actually.

I'm really not interested in a fight, it just seems to me that all guilds I've ever rolled with were "40k DPS on a dummy before we start the trial or GTFO" and 99% of the boss fights literally were just standing still and hitting the rotation, with a dodge roll every blue moon to avoid the boss insta-kill mechanic.

AcadianPaladin · November 2017

Heh, thing is, when you can stand there and simply focus on your rotation, that is reflective of a magnificently skilled tank - who is able to react very quickly to what the boss and his pesky minions are doing.

Plenty of guilds are not dps elitists and/or will help work with players trying to boost their effectiveness.

ADarklore · November 2017

What's kind of strange is that when I played DCUO, I was very good at rotations and timing... with ESO, a combat rotation feels clunky and painful in comparison. Most of the time in ESO it's, switch to backbar for buffs, back to front bar for attacks, return to backbar to refresh buffs, then to front bar for attacks. In DCUO, there was no 'bar swapping', so you fluidly went through a rotation including rotating to the secondary skill bar. I think the whole two weapon 'swap' is what makes it clunky in heavy combat situations, especially with the lag involved.

FakeFox · November 2017

Stonyfoot wrote: »

The way you achieve it is by repeating the skill rotation like a robot, glitching through every animation possible, hour after hour.

This is the exact reason why I love PvE combat. Perfecting a rotation to the point were you can pull it off flawlessly while playing mechanics and are able to adjust it on demand without uptimes going to **** is what makes PvE combat challenging and rewarding to me.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · November 2017

Not nearly as bad as final fantasy 14’s rotation based combat. My god that was boring. At least there is more dodging and rolling, blocking and posistioning in ESO. It’s not always as simple as doing a rotation over and over. Maybe it’s easier for ranges, but as melee I’m always having to interrupt and change rotation because when certain phases of the fight punish those in melee range. Honestly I feel most of the trials and harder dungeons are a bit easier for ranged. Could just be bias though.

pelle412 · November 2017

My main is a tank and I had no other toons. Then I made a DPS and I now appreciate that being a good DPS in a trial is not simple. It’s actuslly harder than tanking IMO.

Kimba_Do · November 2017

This one mixes the delightful confusion of Baan Dar with the raw chaos of Sheogorath for a truly random and unpredictable experience! It may do 70K or it may heal the enemies, but one thing's for sure, it's never boring!

This one is still waiting for his skooma cookies...

Izaki · November 2017

Yeah no. Doing rotations on a dummy is one thing. Doing a rotation on a boss with mechanics is something else entirely. You can't just stand there and pull the same 65k single target DPS as on a Centurion. I mean I guess you could try and do the same rotation as on the dummy on say Hard Mode Rakkhat or the Twins but I doubt you'd be able to pull it off.

Plus the only "compulsory" animation canceling or 'glitching" as you call it is bar swap canceling. Proper light and heavy attack weaving doesn't cancel or glitch any animations at all. The rest is just something that only people that never understood how animations work, do.

raj72616a · November 2017

with Combat Metrics addon on PC, it's very obvious that not all boss fights are rotation-centric

some are, and in these easy fights i see 80k+ single-target group DPS with good group.
but the same group could be doing just 20~30k group DPS in another boss fight because there are mechanics to deal with.

Thunderknuckles · November 2017

Some of you make very good points. Unlike some other MMO's, even the tank can't just stand there all the time eating the boss's AoE. Been quite a number of times I've, as the healer, had to ask the tank to please move out of that burny/poisony stuff because it's doing 40K DPS to him and I'm wasting all my magicka spamming him with my uber party heal. It's like, man, I love you like a brother, but you have GOT to get out of that crap! LOL

Waffennacht · November 2017

PvP

vyndral13preub18_ESO · November 2017

I don’t. Ive been playing a lot of free or cheap choose your own adventure visual novel things. Im currently stuck on Life is Strange and trying to find all the photo spots. Anyway time travel makes my head hurt.

Mostly I’m annoyed here. I suppose. Ive never been a great player but before the nerfs in a decent group I was between 22-28k dps. Decent enough not to have much trouble with anything. I never really got into vet trials so I was good enough. And good enough that a bad group didn’t matter.

Then The nerfs hit. And I’m usually around 12-17k. Ive tried to adjust, but really I’m just not into it. I mean we didn’t even get new skills. Just the same skills I’ve been using only weaker. And slowly the unique skills classes had are being nerfed enough that all the classes are slowly sliding into using mostly weapon skills for dps and class skills for less and less.

Generally I log on. Kill a couple mobs. Then log off. I just can’t get into the changes.

Didaco · November 2017

Erraln wrote: »

Stonyfoot wrote: »

You have to have that X0,000 points of DPS or you won't get to play any of the endgame activities: The way you achieve it is by repeating the skill rotation like a robot, glitching through every animation possible, hour after hour. The combat often feels like a bad quick time event or a reaction time test instead of fighting an actual opponent... So how do you keep yourself interested after months or years of playing?

Man, if you think so harshly about this game's animation cancelling, you'd better stay away from fighting game tournaments.

You mean those games where animation cancelling is actually intended and developers put a lot of time tweaking which frames can be canceled a which ones can't?; where you can't make use of abortions like block casting?; where you can't cancel wind up frames just by blocking (and still manage to land the hit, lel)because there's an actual risk/reward factor?

Sorry, it's just not the same animation canceling.

Illurian · November 2017

Didaco wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

Stonyfoot wrote: »

You have to have that X0,000 points of DPS or you won't get to play any of the endgame activities: The way you achieve it is by repeating the skill rotation like a robot, glitching through every animation possible, hour after hour. The combat often feels like a bad quick time event or a reaction time test instead of fighting an actual opponent... So how do you keep yourself interested after months or years of playing?

Man, if you think so harshly about this game's animation cancelling, you'd better stay away from fighting game tournaments.

You mean those games where animation cancelling is actually intended and developers put a lot of time tweaking which frames can be canceled a which ones can't?; where you can't make use of abortions like block casting?; where you can't cancel wind up frames just by blocking (and still manage to land the hit, lel)because there's an actual risk/reward factor?

Sorry, it's just not the same animation canceling.

Didaco wrote: »

where you can't make use of abortions like block casting?

Didaco wrote: »

abortions