Maintenance for the week of December 22:
• NA megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• NA megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
Does ZOS Actually Know What Class Balance Is?
-
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Actually_Goku wrote: »I feel like Mag DK's aren't in a terrible place right now, and you can search - I've started plenty of threads and commented in many about where we were at. A year ago, I honestly think I was one of maybe 2 Mag DK's that PVP'd on the XB EU server.
We got a buff earlier in the year, and although the class changes themselves were fine, when it was coupled with the heavy armour meta, it was a little bit too tanky. It was too easy to be able to deal a good amount of damage, while sustaining a high amount in heavy armour.
To be fair, I honestly feel right now, that we are as close to balance as we have been since console launch, especially in respect to the magicka/stamina balance.
Lol. If ZOS gave MagDK’s an execute of some kind and basic mobility, then maybe. Just maybe I would agree that MagDK’s were remotely balanced (in accordance to other classes). Better yet, a simple (legitimate) reduction in skill cost. And you’d have me sold. But as is, there is truly no reason for me to even bother continuing about using my MagDK from a PvP perspective. It’s literally overshadowed by everyone else. Literally.
I’ll probably just convert my StamDK for PvP, and just focus learning/mastering StamDK as well as I’ve learned and mastered MagDK. Not going to waste my time anymore wrestling for MagDK equality, when I’m literally gimping myself every time I utilize it.
By the way, it’s no better for PvE. Lol. Unless your group is in need of that Engulfing Flames benefit, is in need of a chainer, or needs Deep Breath? There’s literally 0 reason to run a MagDK in trials. None. Zero. You’d be better off with Sorcs and Nightblades. Maybe even MagPlar (teehe).
...
On the bright side, they buffed Cauterize. LMAO!
The proposed changes to off-balance should do a lot to help Mag DK out in PVE.
As far as PVP goes, I tried mine out and it felt flat out bad, though I'd say a lot of that is due to me trying to play it like a stam sorc.
The Mag DK's I've faced are either absolutely awful and are free kills, or are unkillable monsters that refuse to let you move, and slowly burn you down while you helplessly try to get away.
Honestly, good DK players terrify me.
Yup. That’s pretty much how it goes. MagDK’s are the OW version of Roadhog. They are either free kills, or the most disgustingly good beasts to roam about. Oddly enough, I also main Roadhog. Lol. But anyway, there is no middle grounds for MagDK’s. There is no such a thing as being an “average” MagDK. Literally doesn’t exist. You’re either a free kill, or you’re a force of complete obliteration.BalticBlues wrote: »NBs even can kill CP660 Heavy Armor players from stealth
with Surprise Attacks without giving them even a chance to react.
As long as Stealth and Surprise Attacks exist in this game,
there never will be class balance and NBs will always be the favorite class.
Bingo. And that’s the sad truth that it all boils down to. There is a reason why they are the easiest class to get Flawless on (outside of maybe MagSorc, although I find NB’s easier). There is a reason why they are often suggested as the go-to class for beginners, and why there are more of them than any other class that roam about PvP environments. None of this is by coincidence at all. None of it.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS has never considered nerfs a stabilizing force. They are a punishment. If a class is being too overused, it will be nerfed.
They do not care about true balance, only adverages.1 -
GrigorijMalahevich✭✭✭✭✭So I was browsing through the base/main CWC patch notes that are live currently on PC, as the new DLC goes live on consoles tomorrow... And umm... Guys... Either I misread a lot of things, or perhaps ZOS is a tad bit more clueless than we’d all like to believe.
Let’s begin with a class balance change comparison between DK’s and NB’s...
Dragonknights:
- Nerfed Fossilize to make Stonefist appear more appealing.
- Made Shifting Standard cost more ultimate, and made it so that you no longer generate ultimate while it is active. Mind you this was done on a class that sustains through the use of ultimates. Lol. And you reduced the uptime of it by roughly 8 to 10 seconds.
- You made Cauterize be able to self-heal (lmao), and fire off said fire balls of healing faster.
Nightblades:
- Made a HUGE buffs to both Executioner and Grim Focus. Because yeah, NB’s were definitely having trouble killing things and sustaining (/sarcasm).
- You’ve made Manifestation of Terror even more appealing.
- You’ve gone ahead and buffed Soul Siphon, because why again...? It was bad, because why?
ZOS... No. not okay. As is Nightblades are the most used class. Whether it be magicka or stamina oriented. That’s besides the point. The point is, anyone who plays ESO knows that there are far more Nightblades running about in PvE (and especially PvP) than any other class. Aaaaand you decided to throw them another bone. Where as you’ve made a class that was struggling in its usage take yet another hit to the chin (DK’s). Especially the magicka variant of DK’s. Whenever I’m out and about, whether I’m doing: Trials, dungeons, or PvP, I always get asked why it is I’m even bothering with MagDK’s. And this holds especially true now. Why bother? Why not just use 1 of my Nightblades, or just stick with my Sorc full-time? I mean, there truly is no incentive to use a MagDK outside of a trial where having a chainer would be useful *cough MoL cough*. So yeah. Why bother?
And before someone says, “Champ, you are just whining. You didn’t even list what ZOS could do to make things better.” It’s pretty much useless at this point. ZOS has received more suggestions on helping out DK’s (specifically MagDK’s) than I could count. Tons of threads about this. Yet said suggestions get ignored like 1-800 numbers that show-up on the caller ID. They don’t answer those callings.
And PS:
Can you PLEASE buff cold/frost damage, and or boost MagDen (magicka Warden) damage? Please? PLEASE!?
Magsorcs frags? Great to point out issues that support your argument #nerfsorcs
PC/EU 800 CP.
PvP MagSorc.Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
Valera Pozhar - Mag DK EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/jrsuK
Valera Podlechi - Mag Templar AD vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/N0BYq0 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Reading OPs quotes about dks makes realize that ZoS definetly knows about class balance more. Do even know how Shifting Standart works?! Obviously, not.4 -
Sixty5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Actually_Goku wrote: »I feel like Mag DK's aren't in a terrible place right now, and you can search - I've started plenty of threads and commented in many about where we were at. A year ago, I honestly think I was one of maybe 2 Mag DK's that PVP'd on the XB EU server.
We got a buff earlier in the year, and although the class changes themselves were fine, when it was coupled with the heavy armour meta, it was a little bit too tanky. It was too easy to be able to deal a good amount of damage, while sustaining a high amount in heavy armour.
To be fair, I honestly feel right now, that we are as close to balance as we have been since console launch, especially in respect to the magicka/stamina balance.
Lol. If ZOS gave MagDK’s an execute of some kind and basic mobility, then maybe. Just maybe I would agree that MagDK’s were remotely balanced (in accordance to other classes). Better yet, a simple (legitimate) reduction in skill cost. And you’d have me sold. But as is, there is truly no reason for me to even bother continuing about using my MagDK from a PvP perspective. It’s literally overshadowed by everyone else. Literally.
I’ll probably just convert my StamDK for PvP, and just focus learning/mastering StamDK as well as I’ve learned and mastered MagDK. Not going to waste my time anymore wrestling for MagDK equality, when I’m literally gimping myself every time I utilize it.
By the way, it’s no better for PvE. Lol. Unless your group is in need of that Engulfing Flames benefit, is in need of a chainer, or needs Deep Breath? There’s literally 0 reason to run a MagDK in trials. None. Zero. You’d be better off with Sorcs and Nightblades. Maybe even MagPlar (teehe).
...
On the bright side, they buffed Cauterize. LMAO!
The proposed changes to off-balance should do a lot to help Mag DK out in PVE.
As far as PVP goes, I tried mine out and it felt flat out bad, though I'd say a lot of that is due to me trying to play it like a stam sorc.
The Mag DK's I've faced are either absolutely awful and are free kills, or are unkillable monsters that refuse to let you move, and slowly burn you down while you helplessly try to get away.
Honestly, good DK players terrify me.
Yup. That’s pretty much how it goes. MagDK’s are the OW version of Roadhog. They are either free kills, or the most disgustingly good beasts to roam about. Oddly enough, I also main Roadhog. Lol. But anyway, there is no middle grounds for MagDK’s. There is no such a thing as being an “average” MagDK. Literally doesn’t exist. You’re either a free kill, or you’re a force of complete obliteration.
Maybe a good direction to take Mag DK would be to create that middle ground, while expanding on the options for good players.
As far as Nightblade one shots go, I can't say I've ever been insta-gibbed from stealth, even in 6 medium. Break Free is a useful tool to stop that sort of thing.
Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.
I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds0 -
mb10✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »NBs even can kill CP660 Heavy Armor players from stealth
with Surprise Attacks without giving them even a chance to react.
As long as Stealth and Surprise Attacks exist in this game,
there never will be class balance and NBs will always be the favorite class.
Bro I'm in light armour and no NB can ever gank me. You can literally hear the noises before the attack and you simply press block. It's literally that simple. If you're in heavy and get ganked then it's really a L2P issue.
Take away their stealth attacks and what's left? You have no idea what balance means lmao they are called NIGHT BLADES and you want them to remove attacks from stealth hahah ridiculous.
Leave the balancing to ZOS, they've done very well lately7 -
CherryCake✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am sooooo sick of leveling up a char, gathering all the proper armor, making it gold and then hear from my guildies "uhhhhhh that class wont be good anymore after the next patch so do this instead"...I like sweetrolls and I cannot lie3 -
CherryCake✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am sooooo sick of leveling up a char, gathering all the proper armor, making it gold and then hear from my guildies "uhhhhhh that class wont be good anymore after the next patch so do this instead"...I like sweetrolls and I cannot lie0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Posts a video of himself losing to a well played stamnb. Calls stamnb OP. How insightful.
By the way, your opponent didn't even play the stereotypical NB. He was using a SnB dueling build, which is hardly representative of the NBs you see in Cyrodiil. If you have any clue how to play MagDK, you would feel ashamed that you say you often lose against stamnb. DKs have all the tools to make a stamnbs life miserable. Reveal from volatile armor, perma root, perma snare, undodgable stun, high burst undodgable ult, good survivability, wings... The stamina drain is real.Edited by Koensol on November 7, 2017 11:54AM4 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Posts a video of himself losing to a well played stamnb. Calls stamnb OP. How insightful.
By the way, your opponent didn't even play the stereotypical NB. He was using a SnB dueling build, which is hardly representative of the NBs you see in Cyrodiil. If you have any clue how to play MagDK, you would feel ashamed that you say you often lose against stamnb. DKs have all the tools to make a stamnbs life miserable. Reveal from volatile armor, perma root, perma snare, undodgable stun, high burst undodgable ult. The stamina drain is real.
Perma root and perma-snare...? Reveal from Volatile? High Burst ultimate?
First of all, no competent player is going to let you constantly CC them if they know half of what they are doing. That in and of itself gets ruled out. Ever heard of a immovable pot?
Second of all, reveal from Volatile? Do you even play a DK? Do you know the range said spray has for that to even remotely be used as an argument for it to be combating stealth/cloak? Out of all of the years I’ve been playing a DK (magicka or stamina), I can count maybe on 1 hand the amount of times I’ve actually managed to pull something out of stealth with Volatile Armor. Stop trolling.
And lastly, a high Burst ultimate? Are you deadass going to sit there with a straight face and call Leap a high-burst ultimate? Especially when compared to Incap? Are you serious?
Dude, I don’t know if you’re: Drunk, high, sleepy, or just plain old trolling. But, there is absolutely no possible way that you can be serious in saying that MagDK’s are a check/counter to StamBlades. Hell no. And I play a StamBlade from time to time (although I main a MagDK in PvP primarily). I destroy MagDK’s. Granted they take a bit longer than a Sorc or opposing Nightblade. But, the point still remains. I can crush them with ease. Even more so if I’m cheesing with poisons. If you’re struggling against MagDK’s as a StamBlade, then you really need to sit down and evaluate your build and overall knowledge on StamBlades. And that’s not a joke either.
Guys, look. I’m all for a solid debate. Really. If you have a sound and strong argument that opposes said things listed, by all means lay them on the line. But, please don’t sit there and metaphorically pee in a bottle and try to make me think it’s apple juice. It’s not going to happen. Call things like it is, and stick to facts and hard data. Not these goofy things that some have been bringing up.1 -
Chrysa1is✭✭✭✭✭
✭No more heavy shufflers boiiiz!
Happy with the new additions to Nightblades' I used manifestation of terror instead of mass hysteria before the patch, now it will be more effective
0 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Reading OPs quotes about dks makes realize that ZoS definetly knows about class balance more. Do even know how Shifting Standart works?! Obviously, not.
No intelligent person is going to analyze the changes made to Shifting Standard from HotR to CWC, and claim that to be a buff. They reduced the uptime, made the ultimate cost more, and threw a GCD on it. Plus, you can’t even regenerate ultimate while it is active. This is all on a class that utilizes ult to sustain and survive. Now imagine this while you’re dealing with multiple targets, and or hauling ass from a zerg.
And you ask me if I know how Standard works, and claim that I obviously don’t!?
2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »How can you honestly sit here and say MagDk is worse off as a class in Cyrodiil right now than Stamblades are. I'm speechless.
Edit: MagDk is in a bad place in PvE now but not in PvP whatsoever.
The thing about Blades is... if you know what you're doing, it is a phenomenally dangerous class. I haven't been messing around with a Stamblade in PvP since this patch hit, but, as someone who's spent the last (almost three years) learning the ins and outs of the class, and with it's state for the last couple patches before CWC, yeah, I haven no trouble believing that MagDKs are in worse shape right now, than StamBlades.
Now, fair's fair, I'm not an expert on the DK. I know my way around NBs and Sorcs; Templars and DKs have never really grabbed me in the same way. But, yeah, from what I've done with a DK in the last couple months, vs the current state of the NB? That's not really that implausible.
NBs are very fragile. If you know how to play it, you can get some fantastic results. If you don't, it can be an exercise in frustration.
Now, if there's some DK synergy that's making the MagDKs way more effective in PvP, then I'm unaware, and that one's all on me.
Shiiiiiiit. That makes you and me and both. Lmao. I’ve been actively maining a MagDK in PvP for years, with me only swapping to my NB’s when I’m incredibly annoyed with overconfident folks in PvP and want to cheese AP. Last time I brought my MagSorc into PvP was to get them the “Star-Made Knight” title. And proceeded with immediately re-spec’ing them back to PvE specifications.
@Apache_Kid So please, do share if you know something that we don’t know about how glorious MagDK’s are in PvP currently. Yes, spamming Talons and popping a Fossilize and Leap here and there are cute. Yes, very cute. Sprinkle some Flash Lashes in there too, and all that jazz. Yup. Really adorable. But please, do tell me what it is that makes MagDK’s such a threat in Battlegrounds or Cyrodiil. I can’t even solo with a MagDK comfortably, because ZOS has screwed up DK’s to be a “utility bot” while steadily draining the class variant’s utility.
All of the things you just mentioned plus having shields. StamNb currently squishest class, no heal other than vigor or shields, only option to purge is a skill that costs all their magicka which takes away the use of cloak. And most of the things you are trying to purge (haunting curse) can be reapplied right after you purge it. And cloak? Please. Try cloaking with like any dot ability on you and it will pull you out instantly. Cloak doesn't work half the time because of this and it is their only defense other than dodge roll.
StamBlades squishy...? Lol. Please watch this video of a duel I had with a StamBlade while using my MagDK a few weeks ago. It’s also why I hardly duel anymore, unless it is that I know the person and or they are friendly. I don’t waste my time with them, as I have the “Duelist” title on all the characters I aimed to have it on. There is nothing squishy about StamBlades. Please stop parroting what people falsely claim, but have no skill with.
https://youtu.be/Q2BFJbhPLNw
As for issues with MagSorcs, I melt them on my StamBlade. Melt them. Melt. Them. The only time I lose to MagSorcs, is if they are a PetSorc camping mines. And even then, that type of scrubby playstyle is encountered only in duels. And hardly ever in Cyrodiil. After fear is cast, MagSorcs get annihilated. And if I’m being extra cheesy and using poisons on my StamBlade, it becomes an even bigger mess and faster defeat for the Sorc I’m targeting.
Sounds to me like you need to evaluate your StamBlade build, playstyle, or knowledge on engaging other classes.
I'm not going to watch a video of a duel because I already stated NBs excel in 1v1 combat in a duel setting in my original post. I'm talking about open PvP play in Cyrodiil. MagDk much better equipped to deal with many situations including those when you are outnumbered.
And how exactly do we do that? Do you mean Magma Armor? Lol. Deep Breath? Standard? Talons? In what way does a MagDK have a means of handling 1vX encounters easier than a NB (magicka or stamina variant)...? Especially with the CWC changes. I’m genuinely curious, because as I said. I’ve yet to find said proof of this. Where as if I were on a NB, I could just Fear and Cloak away. Or pet teleport. Or just be cocky and delete the opposition 1 by 1, all the while fueling the insanely strong (yet low-cost) ult that makes things even more easier. And if I’m the BombBlade variant, it just makes the given situation even more sloppy. But, I have a feeling that there is no reason to indulge in how potent BombBlades are. Lol. I’m sure we all know just how disgustingly overturned that particular NB variant is.
Anyone that thinks Cloak is good has no credit here if you don’t have a AoE the easiest counter to Cloak you deserve to lose the fight. Fear was nerfed still good just good for 1v2 only now.I've been maining Stam Sorc in PVP for a couple of months now, but after a few bad matches in BG's today, I swapped over to my stamblade.
I had lower overall stats and I was doing an awful job with pulling off combos, and yet I was dropping bodies left and right.
Even in 7 medium, I had no issue living through anything.
I shudder to think what I'll be able to do once I get the hang of the class properly.
A properly played StamBlade is a very elusive and hard-to-catch combatant that can hit very hard when they see an opening.
And Magicka Nightblades are these annoying ( ) and fairly hard to kill ranged combatants with many HoTs that can drain your Stamina before you know it
Are Nightblades too strong? No
Are they too weak? No
I definitely wasn't playing stamblade properly and still felt almost impossible to pin down.
I don't know why people think Streak is OP in terms of mobility, because cloak is just so much better.Apache_Kid wrote: »I've been maining Stam Sorc in PVP for a couple of months now, but after a few bad matches in BG's today, I swapped over to my stamblade.
I had lower overall stats and I was doing an awful job with pulling off combos, and yet I was dropping bodies left and right.
Even in 7 medium, I had no issue living through anything.
I shudder to think what I'll be able to do once I get the hang of the class properly.
A properly played StamBlade is a very elusive and hard-to-catch combatant that can hit very hard when they see an opening.
And Magicka Nightblades are these annoying ( ) and fairly hard to kill ranged combatants with many HoTs that can drain your Stamina before you know it
Are Nightblades too strong? No
Are they too weak? No
I definitely wasn't playing stamblade properly and still felt almost impossible to pin down.
I don't know why people think Streak is OP in terms of mobility, because cloak is just so much better.
Streak in conjunction with the stacking of shields is what the issue is because you get a high mobility escape along with the ability to take a boatload of damage while also being un-crittable.
Not if you are a stam sorc.
Cloak is literally better than streak in every way. You can use it to freely reposition, it won't overshoot you off a cliff or into lava, it cancels incoming attacks, and has no penalty to being spammed. Plus it is much easier to use in order to line of sight, and when combined with Shadow Image, it is even more silly.
Cloak is useless for getting away you are in the same place you don’t move with Cloak, can’t sprint or roll. Hit one AoE and oh hey there he is. Shadow Image is funny how people fall for they if you start taking damage from a standing shade the Nightblade will run from in and port back to it really the one trick with that power and it still works.
There is where Cloak is useful when no one can see where you cloaked and you are out of range of AoEs. Cloak is a joke if you can’t counter in by now that’s a you problem L2P can’t be applied to you if you don’t want to learn.
Couldn't agree more about cloak. People who complain about it being OP have never tried to use it under pressure. It's near impossible because you get pulled out of it by so many abilities in the game.
Yeah, if you're trying to use a lot of stealth breaking abilities while in cloak, or you're trying to dodge roll.
Once you know what you're doing, cloak is really versatile, but I get where a player who's never really learned how to use it would miss that.1 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Reading OPs quotes about dks makes realize that ZoS definetly knows about class balance more. Do even know how Shifting Standart works?! Obviously, not.
No intelligent person is going to analyze the changes made to Shifting Standard from HotR to CWC, and claim that to be a buff. They reduced the uptime, made the ultimate cost more, and threw a GCD on it. Plus, you can’t even regenerate ultimate while it is active. This is all on a class that utilizes ult to sustain and survive. Now imagine this while you’re dealing with multiple targets, and or hauling ass from a zerg.
And you ask me if I know how Standard works, and claim that I obviously don’t!?
Before talking about something atleast learn how it works. With your post you showed again that you don't even know how current Shifting Standard working. "Intelligent persons" do know how it works now, using it on backbar and enjoy its power.
Seems I have to enlighten you, so it wont be possible to spread lie about it:
HotR ShS - 15 sec duration, within which you have ability to replace standard with 15 more sec duration, and you can do it only once. If you didn't replaced it within 15sec, you loose additional 15sec duration. During this 15-30 sec you can't generate ultimate. Grant defile.
Recap: aoe dot with defile that enemy can simply move on from. With disabled ult generation for 30sec.
CwC ShS - made video specially for you, enjoy, and especially look and ultimate points number at the end of ultimate duration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxOSsQ5cH5U&feature=youtu.be
Recap: fully portable 8m aoe dot with 8m aoe major defile with enabled ult generation(own Standart ready for 30%).
So, stop spreading lie. Same goes for Fossilize.4 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Reading OPs quotes about dks makes realize that ZoS definetly knows about class balance more. Do even know how Shifting Standart works?! Obviously, not.
No intelligent person is going to analyze the changes made to Shifting Standard from HotR to CWC, and claim that to be a buff. They reduced the uptime, made the ultimate cost more, and threw a GCD on it. Plus, you can’t even regenerate ultimate while it is active. This is all on a class that utilizes ult to sustain and survive. Now imagine this while you’re dealing with multiple targets, and or hauling ass from a zerg.
And you ask me if I know how Standard works, and claim that I obviously don’t!?
Before talking about something atleast learn how it works. With your post you showed again that you don't even know how current Shifting Standard working. "Intelligent persons" do know how it works now, using it on backbar and enjoy its power.
Seems I have to enlighten you, so it wont be possible to spread lie about it:
HotR ShS - 15 sec duration, within which you have ability to replace standard with 15 more sec duration, and you can do it only once. If you didn't replaced it within 15sec, you loose additional 15sec duration. During this 15-30 sec you can't generate ultimate. Grant defile.
Recap: aoe dot with defile that enemy can simply move on from. With disabled ult generation for 30sec.
CwC ShS - made video specially for you, enjoy, and especially look and ultimate points number at the end of ultimate duration:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxOSsQ5cH5U&feature=youtu.be
Recap: fully portable 8m aoe dot with 8m aoe major defile with enabled ult generation(own Standart ready for 30%).
So, stop spreading lie. Same goes for Fossilize.
Question. What am I lying about? Pre-CWC you could have uptime on Standard for roughly 30-35seconds. Right or wrong? Cost of Standard was 250 ult pre-CWC. Right or wrong? Pre-CWC Standard didn’t share a GCD. Right. Or. Wrong. And Pre-CWC you could drop Shifting Standard, do what needed to be done, drop another standard, and then be almost ready to have enough ult for a Leap.
What was I lying about? Also, no MagDK worth their weight in Cyrodiil or BG is even running Shifting Standard under normal conditions. Why is that? Because back bar ults would be better for: Resto Ult, bats, or magma armor. The only time(s) a skilled MagDK would use Standard, is if they are in a group with those who can take advantage of said ult. Such as the combo of a Sorc’s Negate with it. Or, they are using Standard in duels. And even then, that’s debatable whether or not it’s a wise choice to do so as it’s a relatively stationary and semi-useless skill. Sure, you reduce the amount of healing which is nice and does AoE damage. However, the previous ults I listed outclass it in most scenarios.
So again, what are you talking about?1 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »How can you honestly sit here and say MagDk is worse off as a class in Cyrodiil right now than Stamblades are. I'm speechless.
Edit: MagDk is in a bad place in PvE now but not in PvP whatsoever.
The thing about Blades is... if you know what you're doing, it is a phenomenally dangerous class. I haven't been messing around with a Stamblade in PvP since this patch hit, but, as someone who's spent the last (almost three years) learning the ins and outs of the class, and with it's state for the last couple patches before CWC, yeah, I haven no trouble believing that MagDKs are in worse shape right now, than StamBlades.
Now, fair's fair, I'm not an expert on the DK. I know my way around NBs and Sorcs; Templars and DKs have never really grabbed me in the same way. But, yeah, from what I've done with a DK in the last couple months, vs the current state of the NB? That's not really that implausible.
NBs are very fragile. If you know how to play it, you can get some fantastic results. If you don't, it can be an exercise in frustration.
Now, if there's some DK synergy that's making the MagDKs way more effective in PvP, then I'm unaware, and that one's all on me.
Shiiiiiiit. That makes you and me and both. Lmao. I’ve been actively maining a MagDK in PvP for years, with me only swapping to my NB’s when I’m incredibly annoyed with overconfident folks in PvP and want to cheese AP. Last time I brought my MagSorc into PvP was to get them the “Star-Made Knight” title. And proceeded with immediately re-spec’ing them back to PvE specifications.
@Apache_Kid So please, do share if you know something that we don’t know about how glorious MagDK’s are in PvP currently. Yes, spamming Talons and popping a Fossilize and Leap here and there are cute. Yes, very cute. Sprinkle some Flash Lashes in there too, and all that jazz. Yup. Really adorable. But please, do tell me what it is that makes MagDK’s such a threat in Battlegrounds or Cyrodiil. I can’t even solo with a MagDK comfortably, because ZOS has screwed up DK’s to be a “utility bot” while steadily draining the class variant’s utility.
All of the things you just mentioned plus having shields. StamNb currently squishest class, no heal other than vigor or shields, only option to purge is a skill that costs all their magicka which takes away the use of cloak. And most of the things you are trying to purge (haunting curse) can be reapplied right after you purge it. And cloak? Please. Try cloaking with like any dot ability on you and it will pull you out instantly. Cloak doesn't work half the time because of this and it is their only defense other than dodge roll.
StamBlades squishy...? Lol. Please watch this video of a duel I had with a StamBlade while using my MagDK a few weeks ago. It’s also why I hardly duel anymore, unless it is that I know the person and or they are friendly. I don’t waste my time with them, as I have the “Duelist” title on all the characters I aimed to have it on. There is nothing squishy about StamBlades. Please stop parroting what people falsely claim, but have no skill with.https://youtu.be/Q2BFJbhPLNw
As for issues with MagSorcs, I melt them on my StamBlade. Melt them. Melt. Them. The only time I lose to MagSorcs, is if they are a PetSorc camping mines. And even then, that type of scrubby playstyle is encountered only in duels. And hardly ever in Cyrodiil. After fear is cast, MagSorcs get annihilated. And if I’m being extra cheesy and using poisons on my StamBlade, it becomes an even bigger mess and faster defeat for the Sorc I’m targeting.
Sounds to me like you need to evaluate your StamBlade build, playstyle, or knowledge on engaging other classes.
Wow.
yeah man. This is a learn to play issue. Mag DK's are fine. I can't believe you lost a duel to a stamblade and then had the gumption to post it on the boards as if it would prove that stamblades are OP. It doesn't. He didn't even kite you. You got outplayed despite having a clear class advantage.
For starters, when you root someone, you should walk through them and attack them from behind so they can't attack you back.. that's Mag DK 101.... you also slotted petrify which can be OK but only if you pair it with meteor to make it unblockable.. but you didn't even petrify before your leaps which allowed him to block your leaps. ...
You have plenty of tools on mag DK. you just don't know how to use them. Thankfully you posted a video and can learn from your player mistakes.
No. MagDK’s are not fine. Maybe in your opinion the class is fine. But, to many people who actively utilize the class in both PvE and PvP — the class is far from fine. That’s first and foremost.
Second of all, a DK does not have an advantage against Nightblades. Especially a MagDK compared to a StamBlade. How you ask? A NB has access to multiple forms of mobility, executes, insane self-buffs, etc. And that is both from class-based skills and passive, to generic ones (e.g. 2H execute, DW execute, etc.). Where as DK’s would only receive an execute from going the stamina route, and mobility from choosing to be a vampire. In other words, a MagDK lacks mobility without becoming a vampire and even then will still lack an execute of any form. And please, do NOT tell me to try and hybrid a MagDK. That’s just downright foolish.
My build utilized in that duel was setup for Cyrodiil PvP. Not Dueling. I do not run Meteor when I’m out and about in Cyrodiil, as I prefer Leap and Standard or Magma Armor instead. Sometimes Bat Swarm (but that’s eh). The whole Fossilize into Meteor is a poor man’s combo based off of MagBlade’s Fear into Meteor. I’m not going to play my MagDK like a MagBlade. Absolutely not. They’re not setup like a MagBlade, and aren’t even close at having the advantages that a MagBlade has. I also did Fossilize into Leap if you watch the video carefully, and can say for the most part that I did quite well considering what I was up against.
Now then. To say I don’t know how to use said tools on DK? Elaborate, as DK skills as is are obnoxiously expensive. But, most of their utility-based tools don’t even let them excel for the most part at solo open world PvP. Talking about DK 101? That is DK 101. DK’s are setup by ZOS to excel at group-based activity (whether it be PvE or PvP), and in a sense be a frontline soldier. Hence why they make the best tanks out of all of the classes. Even though I have no tanks, it is quite obvious that DK’s are a class that are essentially built for it. Any tank worth his weight would tell you that DK’s make the best tanks, although you do not need a DK to be a great tank. The same can be said regarding Templars and healers.
Now then. If you are going to acknowledge said facts listed above, then you must acknowledge the fact that DK’s are not setup for 1vX or solo’ing for the most part in open world PvP. Especially MagDK’s. You may can get by solo’ing with a StamDK a lot easier regarding PvP, as you have access to multiple executes and are a stamina build to begin with. But, let’s just call it like it is. StamDK in PvP is pretty lovely. Especially in groups. But again, they can work solo. MagDK...? Hardly. MagDK is pretty much hard mode for this game as someone else mentioned. Very much so hard mode. And if you call yourself solo’ing (as I do for the most part) in open world PvP with a MagDK, you’re essentially taking the difficulty to Dark Souls level hardness. M’kay?
I appreciate you trying to educate me on that 1 particular combo, and for trying to enlighten me on DK’s. And I hear ya pumpkin. Really. I do. I hear ya loud and clear. But, I’ve been playing DK’s for a very long time. Both magicka and stamina. Magicka DK a tad bit longer than StamDK, but still for a very long time. Beta days even. Lol. I think I have a clue on how to DK’s work, and their functions in PvE and PvP. And that’s including all variants, except for healer. I have no idea how in the world a DK would be a healer, and even shudder at the idea of having a DK healer in a group with me. >_>starkerealm wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »How can you honestly sit here and say MagDk is worse off as a class in Cyrodiil right now than Stamblades are. I'm speechless.
Edit: MagDk is in a bad place in PvE now but not in PvP whatsoever.
The thing about Blades is... if you know what you're doing, it is a phenomenally dangerous class. I haven't been messing around with a Stamblade in PvP since this patch hit, but, as someone who's spent the last (almost three years) learning the ins and outs of the class, and with it's state for the last couple patches before CWC, yeah, I haven no trouble believing that MagDKs are in worse shape right now, than StamBlades.
Now, fair's fair, I'm not an expert on the DK. I know my way around NBs and Sorcs; Templars and DKs have never really grabbed me in the same way. But, yeah, from what I've done with a DK in the last couple months, vs the current state of the NB? That's not really that implausible.
NBs are very fragile. If you know how to play it, you can get some fantastic results. If you don't, it can be an exercise in frustration.
Now, if there's some DK synergy that's making the MagDKs way more effective in PvP, then I'm unaware, and that one's all on me.
Shiiiiiiit. That makes you and me and both. Lmao. I’ve been actively maining a MagDK in PvP for years, with me only swapping to my NB’s when I’m incredibly annoyed with overconfident folks in PvP and want to cheese AP. Last time I brought my MagSorc into PvP was to get them the “Star-Made Knight” title. And proceeded with immediately re-spec’ing them back to PvE specifications.
@Apache_Kid So please, do share if you know something that we don’t know about how glorious MagDK’s are in PvP currently. Yes, spamming Talons and popping a Fossilize and Leap here and there are cute. Yes, very cute. Sprinkle some Flash Lashes in there too, and all that jazz. Yup. Really adorable. But please, do tell me what it is that makes MagDK’s such a threat in Battlegrounds or Cyrodiil. I can’t even solo with a MagDK comfortably, because ZOS has screwed up DK’s to be a “utility bot” while steadily draining the class variant’s utility.
All of the things you just mentioned plus having shields. StamNb currently squishest class, no heal other than vigor or shields, only option to purge is a skill that costs all their magicka which takes away the use of cloak. And most of the things you are trying to purge (haunting curse) can be reapplied right after you purge it. And cloak? Please. Try cloaking with like any dot ability on you and it will pull you out instantly. Cloak doesn't work half the time because of this and it is their only defense other than dodge roll.
StamBlades squishy...? Lol. Please watch this video of a duel I had with a StamBlade while using my MagDK a few weeks ago. It’s also why I hardly duel anymore, unless it is that I know the person and or they are friendly. I don’t waste my time with them, as I have the “Duelist” title on all the characters I aimed to have it on. There is nothing squishy about StamBlades. Please stop parroting what people falsely claim, but have no skill with.https://youtu.be/Q2BFJbhPLNw
As for issues with MagSorcs, I melt them on my StamBlade. Melt them. Melt. Them. The only time I lose to MagSorcs, is if they are a PetSorc camping mines. And even then, that type of scrubby playstyle is encountered only in duels. And hardly ever in Cyrodiil. After fear is cast, MagSorcs get annihilated. And if I’m being extra cheesy and using poisons on my StamBlade, it becomes an even bigger mess and faster defeat for the Sorc I’m targeting.
Sounds to me like you need to evaluate your StamBlade build, playstyle, or knowledge on engaging other classes.
I'm not going to watch a video of a duel because I already stated NBs excel in 1v1 combat in a duel setting in my original post. I'm talking about open PvP play in Cyrodiil. MagDk much better equipped to deal with many situations including those when you are outnumbered.
And how exactly do we do that? Do you mean Magma Armor? Lol. Deep Breath? Standard? Talons? In what way does a MagDK have a means of handling 1vX encounters easier than a NB (magicka or stamina variant)...? Especially with the CWC changes. I’m genuinely curious, because as I said. I’ve yet to find said proof of this. Where as if I were on a NB, I could just Fear and Cloak away. Or pet teleport. Or just be cocky and delete the opposition 1 by 1, all the while fueling the insanely strong (yet low-cost) ult that makes things even more easier. And if I’m the BombBlade variant, it just makes the given situation even more sloppy. But, I have a feeling that there is no reason to indulge in how potent BombBlades are. Lol. I’m sure we all know just how disgustingly overturned that particular NB variant is.
Anyone that thinks Cloak is good has no credit here if you don’t have a AoE the easiest counter to Cloak you deserve to lose the fight. Fear was nerfed still good just good for 1v2 only now.I've been maining Stam Sorc in PVP for a couple of months now, but after a few bad matches in BG's today, I swapped over to my stamblade.
I had lower overall stats and I was doing an awful job with pulling off combos, and yet I was dropping bodies left and right.
Even in 7 medium, I had no issue living through anything.
I shudder to think what I'll be able to do once I get the hang of the class properly.
A properly played StamBlade is a very elusive and hard-to-catch combatant that can hit very hard when they see an opening.
And Magicka Nightblades are these annoying ( ) and fairly hard to kill ranged combatants with many HoTs that can drain your Stamina before you know it
Are Nightblades too strong? No
Are they too weak? No
I definitely wasn't playing stamblade properly and still felt almost impossible to pin down.
I don't know why people think Streak is OP in terms of mobility, because cloak is just so much better.Apache_Kid wrote: »I've been maining Stam Sorc in PVP for a couple of months now, but after a few bad matches in BG's today, I swapped over to my stamblade.
I had lower overall stats and I was doing an awful job with pulling off combos, and yet I was dropping bodies left and right.
Even in 7 medium, I had no issue living through anything.
I shudder to think what I'll be able to do once I get the hang of the class properly.
A properly played StamBlade is a very elusive and hard-to-catch combatant that can hit very hard when they see an opening.
And Magicka Nightblades are these annoying ( ) and fairly hard to kill ranged combatants with many HoTs that can drain your Stamina before you know it
Are Nightblades too strong? No
Are they too weak? No
I definitely wasn't playing stamblade properly and still felt almost impossible to pin down.
I don't know why people think Streak is OP in terms of mobility, because cloak is just so much better.
Streak in conjunction with the stacking of shields is what the issue is because you get a high mobility escape along with the ability to take a boatload of damage while also being un-crittable.
Not if you are a stam sorc.
Cloak is literally better than streak in every way. You can use it to freely reposition, it won't overshoot you off a cliff or into lava, it cancels incoming attacks, and has no penalty to being spammed. Plus it is much easier to use in order to line of sight, and when combined with Shadow Image, it is even more silly.
Cloak is useless for getting away you are in the same place you don’t move with Cloak, can’t sprint or roll. Hit one AoE and oh hey there he is. Shadow Image is funny how people fall for they if you start taking damage from a standing shade the Nightblade will run from in and port back to it really the one trick with that power and it still works.
There is where Cloak is useful when no one can see where you cloaked and you are out of range of AoEs. Cloak is a joke if you can’t counter in by now that’s a you problem L2P can’t be applied to you if you don’t want to learn.
Couldn't agree more about cloak. People who complain about it being OP have never tried to use it under pressure. It's near impossible because you get pulled out of it by so many abilities in the game.
Yeah, if you're trying to use a lot of stealth breaking abilities while in cloak, or you're trying to dodge roll.
Once you know what you're doing, cloak is really versatile, but I get where a player who's never really learned how to use it would miss that.
LOL such a *** response. There are SO many direct counters to cloak it's absurd. Claiming otherwise is ignorant of the types of skills and pots that are in the game. Cloak is only useful when you are playing against pugs that don't realize how easy it is you pull people out of it. You're just trolling now.Edited by Apache_Kid on November 7, 2017 4:17PM4 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Apache_Kid wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »How can you honestly sit here and say MagDk is worse off as a class in Cyrodiil right now than Stamblades are. I'm speechless.
Edit: MagDk is in a bad place in PvE now but not in PvP whatsoever.
The thing about Blades is... if you know what you're doing, it is a phenomenally dangerous class. I haven't been messing around with a Stamblade in PvP since this patch hit, but, as someone who's spent the last (almost three years) learning the ins and outs of the class, and with it's state for the last couple patches before CWC, yeah, I haven no trouble believing that MagDKs are in worse shape right now, than StamBlades.
Now, fair's fair, I'm not an expert on the DK. I know my way around NBs and Sorcs; Templars and DKs have never really grabbed me in the same way. But, yeah, from what I've done with a DK in the last couple months, vs the current state of the NB? That's not really that implausible.
NBs are very fragile. If you know how to play it, you can get some fantastic results. If you don't, it can be an exercise in frustration.
Now, if there's some DK synergy that's making the MagDKs way more effective in PvP, then I'm unaware, and that one's all on me.
Shiiiiiiit. That makes you and me and both. Lmao. I’ve been actively maining a MagDK in PvP for years, with me only swapping to my NB’s when I’m incredibly annoyed with overconfident folks in PvP and want to cheese AP. Last time I brought my MagSorc into PvP was to get them the “Star-Made Knight” title. And proceeded with immediately re-spec’ing them back to PvE specifications.
@Apache_Kid So please, do share if you know something that we don’t know about how glorious MagDK’s are in PvP currently. Yes, spamming Talons and popping a Fossilize and Leap here and there are cute. Yes, very cute. Sprinkle some Flash Lashes in there too, and all that jazz. Yup. Really adorable. But please, do tell me what it is that makes MagDK’s such a threat in Battlegrounds or Cyrodiil. I can’t even solo with a MagDK comfortably, because ZOS has screwed up DK’s to be a “utility bot” while steadily draining the class variant’s utility.
All of the things you just mentioned plus having shields. StamNb currently squishest class, no heal other than vigor or shields, only option to purge is a skill that costs all their magicka which takes away the use of cloak. And most of the things you are trying to purge (haunting curse) can be reapplied right after you purge it. And cloak? Please. Try cloaking with like any dot ability on you and it will pull you out instantly. Cloak doesn't work half the time because of this and it is their only defense other than dodge roll.
StamBlades squishy...? Lol. Please watch this video of a duel I had with a StamBlade while using my MagDK a few weeks ago. It’s also why I hardly duel anymore, unless it is that I know the person and or they are friendly. I don’t waste my time with them, as I have the “Duelist” title on all the characters I aimed to have it on. There is nothing squishy about StamBlades. Please stop parroting what people falsely claim, but have no skill with.https://youtu.be/Q2BFJbhPLNw
As for issues with MagSorcs, I melt them on my StamBlade. Melt them. Melt. Them. The only time I lose to MagSorcs, is if they are a PetSorc camping mines. And even then, that type of scrubby playstyle is encountered only in duels. And hardly ever in Cyrodiil. After fear is cast, MagSorcs get annihilated. And if I’m being extra cheesy and using poisons on my StamBlade, it becomes an even bigger mess and faster defeat for the Sorc I’m targeting.
Sounds to me like you need to evaluate your StamBlade build, playstyle, or knowledge on engaging other classes.
You stood there in his face going through your rotations while trying to perma-block. While that player continually made you reposition yourself and used stealth very wisely, meanwhile you failed to kill him with your toolkit available to you, I mean, you failed to kill him.
You were outplayed and you had a toolkit that is an antithesis to the Nightblade, congrats I guess.
6 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Yeah, if you're trying to use a lot of stealth breaking abilities while in cloak, or you're trying to dodge roll.
Once you know what you're doing, cloak is really versatile, but I get where a player who's never really learned how to use it would miss that.
LOL such a *** response. There are SO many direct counters to cloak it's absurd. Claiming otherwise is ignorant of the types of skills and pots that are in the game. Cloak is only useful when you are playing against pugs that don't realize how easy it is you pull people out of it. You're just trolling now.
Hey, I'll grant you, it's not easy. This is a L2P issue, but that doesn't reflect on you. I think I've said earlier in this thread, it took over a year to get to a place where I could actually make the cloak work more often than not. (Ignoring the part where it's actually been broken, several times, during the game's life.)
Here's the quick takeaway: By itself, Cloak is not an escape. It will let you reposition, but it's not supposed to be a one click escape. Just from the way it's designed. It's undergone some reworks over the years, but the primary goal is to boost survivability and allow the NB to fire off sneak attacks mid combat (even if that doesn't really work). That said, with enough practice, you can use it as an escape.
Once you get a handle on what it can, and can't, do, the cloak becomes a very versatile tool. However, if you're trying to dodge roll or sprint in cloak... yeah, that's not going to end well.1 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »How can you honestly sit here and say MagDk is worse off as a class in Cyrodiil right now than Stamblades are. I'm speechless.
Edit: MagDk is in a bad place in PvE now but not in PvP whatsoever.
The thing about Blades is... if you know what you're doing, it is a phenomenally dangerous class. I haven't been messing around with a Stamblade in PvP since this patch hit, but, as someone who's spent the last (almost three years) learning the ins and outs of the class, and with it's state for the last couple patches before CWC, yeah, I haven no trouble believing that MagDKs are in worse shape right now, than StamBlades.
Now, fair's fair, I'm not an expert on the DK. I know my way around NBs and Sorcs; Templars and DKs have never really grabbed me in the same way. But, yeah, from what I've done with a DK in the last couple months, vs the current state of the NB? That's not really that implausible.
NBs are very fragile. If you know how to play it, you can get some fantastic results. If you don't, it can be an exercise in frustration.
Now, if there's some DK synergy that's making the MagDKs way more effective in PvP, then I'm unaware, and that one's all on me.
Shiiiiiiit. That makes you and me and both. Lmao. I’ve been actively maining a MagDK in PvP for years, with me only swapping to my NB’s when I’m incredibly annoyed with overconfident folks in PvP and want to cheese AP. Last time I brought my MagSorc into PvP was to get them the “Star-Made Knight” title. And proceeded with immediately re-spec’ing them back to PvE specifications.
@Apache_Kid So please, do share if you know something that we don’t know about how glorious MagDK’s are in PvP currently. Yes, spamming Talons and popping a Fossilize and Leap here and there are cute. Yes, very cute. Sprinkle some Flash Lashes in there too, and all that jazz. Yup. Really adorable. But please, do tell me what it is that makes MagDK’s such a threat in Battlegrounds or Cyrodiil. I can’t even solo with a MagDK comfortably, because ZOS has screwed up DK’s to be a “utility bot” while steadily draining the class variant’s utility.
All of the things you just mentioned plus having shields. StamNb currently squishest class, no heal other than vigor or shields, only option to purge is a skill that costs all their magicka which takes away the use of cloak. And most of the things you are trying to purge (haunting curse) can be reapplied right after you purge it. And cloak? Please. Try cloaking with like any dot ability on you and it will pull you out instantly. Cloak doesn't work half the time because of this and it is their only defense other than dodge roll.
StamBlades squishy...? Lol. Please watch this video of a duel I had with a StamBlade while using my MagDK a few weeks ago. It’s also why I hardly duel anymore, unless it is that I know the person and or they are friendly. I don’t waste my time with them, as I have the “Duelist” title on all the characters I aimed to have it on. There is nothing squishy about StamBlades. Please stop parroting what people falsely claim, but have no skill with.https://youtu.be/Q2BFJbhPLNw
As for issues with MagSorcs, I melt them on my StamBlade. Melt them. Melt. Them. The only time I lose to MagSorcs, is if they are a PetSorc camping mines. And even then, that type of scrubby playstyle is encountered only in duels. And hardly ever in Cyrodiil. After fear is cast, MagSorcs get annihilated. And if I’m being extra cheesy and using poisons on my StamBlade, it becomes an even bigger mess and faster defeat for the Sorc I’m targeting.
Sounds to me like you need to evaluate your StamBlade build, playstyle, or knowledge on engaging other classes.
You stood there in his face going through your rotations while trying to perma-block. While that player continually made you reposition yourself and used stealth very wisely, meanwhile you failed to kill him with your toolkit available to you, I mean, you failed to kill him.
You were outplayed and you had a toolkit that is an antithesis to the Nightblade, congrats I guess.
So we are going to disregard the fact that he’s a StamBlade in 5pcs. heavy, using S&B, is running TrollKing, is using evasion boosts, plus running vitality pots, and is setup for duels. Where as I’m setup for solo’ing in Cyrodiil. Okay. Sure. Uh huh. Total antithesis to the build he was running. Riiiiiiight.
Tell you what. I’ll go put on Trollking, use vitality pots on cooldown on my StamBlade in 5pcs. heavy with evasion assist, and go duel someone setup for Cyrodiil while I’m using a build exclusively for dueling. And proceed with claiming how my opponents got outplayed when they lose to me. Heck, I’ll even be a scumbag and t-bag them at the end of the duel as well. Because why not, right? They did “fail” to kill me running said setup, yes? I’ll even specifically target MagDK’s for the duel too m, because you claim how they are such a counter to the given setup. Lol.0 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Yeah, if you're trying to use a lot of stealth breaking abilities while in cloak, or you're trying to dodge roll.
Once you know what you're doing, cloak is really versatile, but I get where a player who's never really learned how to use it would miss that.
LOL such a *** response. There are SO many direct counters to cloak it's absurd. Claiming otherwise is ignorant of the types of skills and pots that are in the game. Cloak is only useful when you are playing against pugs that don't realize how easy it is you pull people out of it. You're just trolling now.
Hey, I'll grant you, it's not easy. This is a L2P issue, but that doesn't reflect on you. I think I've said earlier in this thread, it took over a year to get to a place where I could actually make the cloak work more often than not. (Ignoring the part where it's actually been broken, several times, during the game's life.)
Here's the quick takeaway: By itself, Cloak is not an escape. It will let you reposition, but it's not supposed to be a one click escape. Just from the way it's designed. It's undergone some reworks over the years, but the primary goal is to boost survivability and allow the NB to fire off sneak attacks mid combat (even if that doesn't really work). That said, with enough practice, you can use it as an escape.
Once you get a handle on what it can, and can't, do, the cloak becomes a very versatile tool. However, if you're trying to dodge roll or sprint in cloak... yeah, that's not going to end well.
I'm not trying to dodge roll or sprint. It's that once I use it *boom* aoe right where I was it immov pot with detect and I'm out of it. Where did I state above that I was pulling myself out of cloak? Enemies are pulling me out. I think I'm a seasoned enough player to know that RUNNING or ROLLING will pull me out. You're just being rude at this point.0 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Reading OPs quotes about dks makes realize that ZoS definetly knows about class balance more. Do even know how Shifting Standart works?! Obviously, not.
No intelligent person is going to analyze the changes made to Shifting Standard from HotR to CWC, and claim that to be a buff. They reduced the uptime, made the ultimate cost more, and threw a GCD on it. Plus, you can’t even regenerate ultimate while it is active. This is all on a class that utilizes ult to sustain and survive. Now imagine this while you’re dealing with multiple targets, and or hauling ass from a zerg.
And you ask me if I know how Standard works, and claim that I obviously don’t!?
Before talking about something atleast learn how it works. With your post you showed again that you don't even know how current Shifting Standard working. "Intelligent persons" do know how it works now, using it on backbar and enjoy its power.
Seems I have to enlighten you, so it wont be possible to spread lie about it:
HotR ShS - 15 sec duration, within which you have ability to replace standard with 15 more sec duration, and you can do it only once. If you didn't replaced it within 15sec, you loose additional 15sec duration. During this 15-30 sec you can't generate ultimate. Grant defile.
Recap: aoe dot with defile that enemy can simply move on from. With disabled ult generation for 30sec.
CwC ShS - made video specially for you, enjoy, and especially look and ultimate points number at the end of ultimate duration:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxOSsQ5cH5U&feature=youtu.be
Recap: fully portable 8m aoe dot with 8m aoe major defile with enabled ult generation(own Standart ready for 30%).
So, stop spreading lie. Same goes for Fossilize.
Question. What am I lying about? Pre-CWC you could have uptime on Standard for roughly 30-35seconds. Right or wrong? Cost of Standard was 250 ult pre-CWC. Right or wrong? Pre-CWC Standard didn’t share a GCD. Right. Or. Wrong. And Pre-CWC you could drop Shifting Standard, do what needed to be done, drop another standard, and then be almost ready to have enough ult for a Leap.
What was I lying about? Also, no MagDK worth their weight in Cyrodiil or BG is even running Shifting Standard under normal conditions. Why is that? Because back bar ults would be better for: Resto Ult, bats, or magma armor. The only time(s) a skilled MagDK would use Standard, is if they are in a group with those who can take advantage of said ult. Such as the combo of a Sorc’s Negate with it. Or, they are using Standard in duels. And even then, that’s debatable whether or not it’s a wise choice to do so as it’s a relatively stationary and semi-useless skill. Sure, you reduce the amount of healing which is nice and does AoE damage. However, the previous ults I listed outclass it in most scenarios.
So again, what are you talking about?
Now trying to play dumb mode when there is prove of lie? Expectable tbh.
1. So, now you don't trying to claim that it disable ult generating, huh? Maybe if you actually use it you would know it.
So, old ShS that disable ult generation for half of its duration, i.e. 16sec and then allow to generate for 17sec is enough to "almost ready to have enough ult for a Leap", but new ShS that don't disable ult generation for its full 27sec duration is worse... because 81 ult of new ShS is less than 33ult than old ShS granted during same time? Math is probably too hard nowdays.
2. You couldn't have this mythic 35 sec uptime of old ShF because its duration is 17 seconds. And to refresh its duration you had to reactivate it before time expires. it means in perfect conditions it could be max 33sec duration, and if you mistakenly replaced it you lost all previous duration and make it just 18sec. Now it 27sec that will be same at any condition, definetly not a buff.
3. For 200 ult ShS was useless coz every single person with 10 IQ could do 2 steps out of its range. For 250 ult target cant move away from it because it has unlimited amount of replacements i.e. fully portable ultimate.
So, what kind of crap you gona claim now?
P.S.: also funny but top eu manadk use it in bgs and cyro.
Edited by Cinbri on November 7, 2017 3:25PM3 -
deepseamk20b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MagDK’s are not weak in fact some of the absolute strongest players in the game are MagDK. NB is not over powered, having high burst but low defense is by definition balanced. The “buffs” to NB are barely anything and people still aren’t using the new version of fear. I’m sorry they nerfed one of your skills. How about ask a sorc about frag stun nerf? That’s a lot more game changing than your silly nerf.Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!4 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NBs are actually fun to play since they haven’t homogenized them yet like Templars, sorcs, and DKs. But you are exaggerating the buffs of this patch. Was mostly convenience in making sure they actually make use of the passive and can ani-cancel bow. Then you skip where fear was nerfed and mass hysteria certainly is still not appealing. Even less so now actually3 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »How can you honestly sit here and say MagDk is worse off as a class in Cyrodiil right now than Stamblades are. I'm speechless.
Edit: MagDk is in a bad place in PvE now but not in PvP whatsoever.
The thing about Blades is... if you know what you're doing, it is a phenomenally dangerous class. I haven't been messing around with a Stamblade in PvP since this patch hit, but, as someone who's spent the last (almost three years) learning the ins and outs of the class, and with it's state for the last couple patches before CWC, yeah, I haven no trouble believing that MagDKs are in worse shape right now, than StamBlades.
Now, fair's fair, I'm not an expert on the DK. I know my way around NBs and Sorcs; Templars and DKs have never really grabbed me in the same way. But, yeah, from what I've done with a DK in the last couple months, vs the current state of the NB? That's not really that implausible.
NBs are very fragile. If you know how to play it, you can get some fantastic results. If you don't, it can be an exercise in frustration.
Now, if there's some DK synergy that's making the MagDKs way more effective in PvP, then I'm unaware, and that one's all on me.
Shiiiiiiit. That makes you and me and both. Lmao. I’ve been actively maining a MagDK in PvP for years, with me only swapping to my NB’s when I’m incredibly annoyed with overconfident folks in PvP and want to cheese AP. Last time I brought my MagSorc into PvP was to get them the “Star-Made Knight” title. And proceeded with immediately re-spec’ing them back to PvE specifications.
@Apache_Kid So please, do share if you know something that we don’t know about how glorious MagDK’s are in PvP currently. Yes, spamming Talons and popping a Fossilize and Leap here and there are cute. Yes, very cute. Sprinkle some Flash Lashes in there too, and all that jazz. Yup. Really adorable. But please, do tell me what it is that makes MagDK’s such a threat in Battlegrounds or Cyrodiil. I can’t even solo with a MagDK comfortably, because ZOS has screwed up DK’s to be a “utility bot” while steadily draining the class variant’s utility.
All of the things you just mentioned plus having shields. StamNb currently squishest class, no heal other than vigor or shields, only option to purge is a skill that costs all their magicka which takes away the use of cloak. And most of the things you are trying to purge (haunting curse) can be reapplied right after you purge it. And cloak? Please. Try cloaking with like any dot ability on you and it will pull you out instantly. Cloak doesn't work half the time because of this and it is their only defense other than dodge roll.
StamBlades squishy...? Lol. Please watch this video of a duel I had with a StamBlade while using my MagDK a few weeks ago. It’s also why I hardly duel anymore, unless it is that I know the person and or they are friendly. I don’t waste my time with them, as I have the “Duelist” title on all the characters I aimed to have it on. There is nothing squishy about StamBlades. Please stop parroting what people falsely claim, but have no skill with.https://youtu.be/Q2BFJbhPLNw
As for issues with MagSorcs, I melt them on my StamBlade. Melt them. Melt. Them. The only time I lose to MagSorcs, is if they are a PetSorc camping mines. And even then, that type of scrubby playstyle is encountered only in duels. And hardly ever in Cyrodiil. After fear is cast, MagSorcs get annihilated. And if I’m being extra cheesy and using poisons on my StamBlade, it becomes an even bigger mess and faster defeat for the Sorc I’m targeting.
Sounds to me like you need to evaluate your StamBlade build, playstyle, or knowledge on engaging other classes.
You stood there in his face going through your rotations while trying to perma-block. While that player continually made you reposition yourself and used stealth very wisely, meanwhile you failed to kill him with your toolkit available to you, I mean, you failed to kill him.
You were outplayed and you had a toolkit that is an antithesis to the Nightblade, congrats I guess.
So we are going to disregard the fact that he’s a StamBlade in 5pcs. heavy, using S&B, is running TrollKing, is using evasion boosts, plus running vitality pots, and is setup for duels. Where as I’m setup for solo’ing in Cyrodiil. Okay. Sure. Uh huh. Total antithesis to the build he was running. Riiiiiiight.
Tell you what. I’ll go put on Trollking, use vitality pots on cooldown on my StamBlade in 5pcs. heavy with evasion assist, and go duel someone setup for Cyrodiil while I’m using a build exclusively for dueling. And proceed with claiming how my opponents got outplayed when they lose to me. Heck, I’ll even be a scumbag and t-bag them at the end of the duel as well. Because why not, right? They did “fail” to kill me running said setup, yes? I’ll even specifically target MagDK’s for the duel too m, because you claim how they are such a counter to the given setup. Lol.
Watch your video, then watch that player outplay you.
Really not that hard man, you cycled rotations holding block and now you're just looking like a fool on the forums.
I don't know how you *** that up, but ya *** up.
7 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »MagDK’s are not weak in fact some of the absolute strongest players in the game are MagDK. NB is not over powered, having high burst but low defense is by definition balanced. The “buffs” to NB are barely anything and people still aren’t using the new version of fear. I’m sorry they nerfed one of your skills. How about ask a sorc about frag stun nerf? That’s a lot more game changing than your silly nerf.
Nerfed only 1 skill? Lmao. Oh gee golly gosh. You’re right. Things are so peachy for us MagDK’s. And wow! That Cauterize buff really will make such a huge difference. Watch out Breath of Life and Twilight, as you have competition now for strong class-based heals.
0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Yeah, if you're trying to use a lot of stealth breaking abilities while in cloak, or you're trying to dodge roll.
Once you know what you're doing, cloak is really versatile, but I get where a player who's never really learned how to use it would miss that.
LOL such a *** response. There are SO many direct counters to cloak it's absurd. Claiming otherwise is ignorant of the types of skills and pots that are in the game. Cloak is only useful when you are playing against pugs that don't realize how easy it is you pull people out of it. You're just trolling now.
Hey, I'll grant you, it's not easy. This is a L2P issue, but that doesn't reflect on you. I think I've said earlier in this thread, it took over a year to get to a place where I could actually make the cloak work more often than not. (Ignoring the part where it's actually been broken, several times, during the game's life.)
Here's the quick takeaway: By itself, Cloak is not an escape. It will let you reposition, but it's not supposed to be a one click escape. Just from the way it's designed. It's undergone some reworks over the years, but the primary goal is to boost survivability and allow the NB to fire off sneak attacks mid combat (even if that doesn't really work). That said, with enough practice, you can use it as an escape.
Once you get a handle on what it can, and can't, do, the cloak becomes a very versatile tool. However, if you're trying to dodge roll or sprint in cloak... yeah, that's not going to end well.
I'm not trying to dodge roll or sprint. It's that once I use it *boom* aoe right where I was it immov pot with detect and I'm out of it. Where did I state above that I was pulling myself out of cloak? Enemies are pulling me out. I think I'm a seasoned enough player to know that RUNNING or ROLLING will pull me out. You're just being rude at this point.
The sprint and dodge roll thing wasn't you.kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »Cloak is useless for getting away you are in the same place you don’t move with Cloak, can’t sprint or roll.
Though you did specifically agree with them.
Also, here's a stray thought, when you cloak, don't go where they expect. I know, this gets into mind games a bit, but between cloak and concealed weapon, if they know where you are, you've only yourself to blame when you get AoEed.0 -
MaxwellC✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZoS never known balance until they finally made a change that I and others advocated for and that was that armor abilities i.e. shuffle,immovable, and w/e the magicka one is; Should require the use of 3 to 5 pieces of the corresponding armor to utilize.
This is the first time I can say they did good with balancing but then they had to mess with DK again and make it even worse all while not giving back my Flames of Oblivion (AoE) that should have never went to sorcerers in the first place. I felt like playing this game again but maybe I'll hop on but I do not think I'll be hooked again till they bring back the DK that inspired me to pick this game up in the first place.
Little addition here: I do think the changes to wings were pretty nice of them but maybe its time they remove the shield ultimate and use something unique instead of stealing it from the DKs especially when it was ours to begin with and allowed us to fight the way the class was designed i.e. "Standing your ground" and "Up close and personal".不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell2
