Malacthulhu wrote: »

A warrior in this day and age is anyone being a single parent or a school teacher, not a ego seeking machoist.

This is actually very true.

Valera Progib wrote: »

Bro, all this “bushido, kenpo, kung fu, win chun, krav maga, systema, aikido” is just “exercise” or “fitness” nothing to do with real fighting or martial arts sports.

Krav Maga and Systema are both practical martial arts. Krav Maga started out as an IDF hand-to-hand form, and Systema is Russian in origin. Those aren't, "exercise," or "fitness." Systema is, "I have a ballpoint pen, and some who needs an involuntary tracheotomy."

Saying that those are flashy or irrelevant is like saying US Marines were trained to be flashy and don't know how to stand in a real fight. Or, you know, that cops don't know how to fight.

Valera Progib wrote: »

Everyony that tries to teach you some “secret techniques” is just liar. You will see once in a liftime in a street fighting someone doing a tornado kick and actually hitting anyone.

For reference? No credible instructor will go out there and couch what they're teaching you as, "secret techniques." Nice strawman, you need help burning it?

Valera Progib wrote: »

If you want to do something proper go and do some boxing (super simple, straightforward and most effective and best time/skill ratio out there) or/and submission wrestling of any kind.

I'll be honest. Unless you're dealing with someone who literally does not know how to fight, boxing is worthless. Most wrestling you'd get training in is a close second. Even some of the stuff you look at as worthless, like recreational Aikido can safely neutralize a boxer or wrestler.

Valera Progib wrote: »

Fancy names and claims are usually a mask for being useless. People doing fake martial arts usually quit after first fight...

For example, people who thing Boxing is a martial art, and not a competition sport, with very strict rules that simply don't apply when you've taken a boot to the shin.

Also, fun to remember that sometimes those "fancy names," are just, you know, normal names, that aren't in English.

Valera Progib wrote: »

Don’t get me wrong, there are loads of really effective martial arts: kudo, kyuokushin karate, boxing, thai boxing, judo, wrestling, ***, brazilian jiu jutsu etc. You can also check how many UFC fighters have krav maga background or “shaolin kung fu” (this one is just ridiculously funny).

I wouldn't recommend learning Karate unless your goal is to fend off Samurai in 18th century Okinawa. It has applications, and you can take the stuff you learn there elsewhere, but it was very specifically designed to counter a lot of the contemporary Japanese martial training. Hell, one of the first strikes you learn in Karate is, specifically, designed to neutralize drawing a Katana. Go for the thigh? Yeah, right. You're blocking their arm movement.

Judo works. Modern police hand-to-hand in the US is based heavily off of Judo. It's not really the same martial art anymore, and simply saying, "yeah, take Judo classes," isn't going to have great results. But, it's a good foundation to build from.

Valera Progib wrote: »

Just imho with some common sense.

Okay, here's some actual common sense. Don't train to win a fight. No, really. You're not in an arena. This isn't a competition. No points awarded for putting on a good show. Train to either create an opening and get out, or to neutralize your attacker. Boxing will not do that. You'll just flail at someone in a vain desire to bloody them up, and then wonder how that "worthless Aikido" guy tossed you around like a rag doll.

Here's some less common sense that's worth knowing, but I suspect you don't understand:

Many martial arts exist with both practical and recreational variants. This is especially true of stuff like Judo, or Taikwando, where there are practical versions that will turn your average opponent into paste. There are also a lot of schools that teach variants as a recreational exercise.

Krav Maga is headed this way. The civilian variant lags about 15 years behind the military one, and is rapidly turning into a far more family friendly martial art that you can train kids in without needing to worry about liability. At the same time, the practical version is continuing to be updated, and it's out there. You're not going to find it, as frequently, in the yellow pages, but the IDF is still using it.

When a martial art has both variants, these are different martial arts. They look similar, they may sound similar, they'll have the same terminology. One of them is an immediate threat that can end your life, the other one is what you're mocking. Understanding that these things can, actually, kill you, is a good start to backing off, calming down, and not throwing up such an aggressive front, before wondering how they fractured your arm.

There are only two fighting variants that I will say WILL save your life.

Jiujitsu and Boxing and the 100m sprint. Anything else is a waste of time if you haven't mastered the aformentioned if the goal is to prevent yourself from dying.

i messed up the message somehow

starkerealm wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

Bro, all this “bushido, kenpo, kung fu, win chun, krav maga, systema, aikido” is just “exercise” or “fitness” nothing to do with real fighting or martial arts sports.

Krav Maga and Systema are both practical martial arts. Krav Maga started out as an IDF hand-to-hand form, and Systema is Russian in origin. Those aren't, "exercise," or "fitness." Systema is, "I have a ballpoint pen, and some who needs an involuntary tracheotomy."

Saying that those are flashy or irrelevant is like saying US Marines were trained to be flashy and don't know how to stand in a real fight. Or, you know, that cops don't know how to fight.

Valera Progib wrote: »

Everyony that tries to teach you some “secret techniques” is just liar. You will see once in a liftime in a street fighting someone doing a tornado kick and actually hitting anyone.

For reference? No credible instructor will go out there and couch what they're teaching you as, "secret techniques." Nice strawman, you need help burning it?

Valera Progib wrote: »

If you want to do something proper go and do some boxing (super simple, straightforward and most effective and best time/skill ratio out there) or/and submission wrestling of any kind.

I'll be honest. Unless you're dealing with someone who literally does not know how to fight, boxing is worthless. Most wrestling you'd get training in is a close second. Even some of the stuff you look at as worthless, like recreational Aikido can safely neutralize a boxer or wrestler.

Valera Progib wrote: »

Fancy names and claims are usually a mask for being useless. People doing fake martial arts usually quit after first fight...

For example, people who thing Boxing is a martial art, and not a competition sport, with very strict rules that simply don't apply when you've taken a boot to the shin.

Also, fun to remember that sometimes those "fancy names," are just, you know, normal names, that aren't in English.

Valera Progib wrote: »

Don’t get me wrong, there are loads of really effective martial arts: kudo, kyuokushin karate, boxing, thai boxing, judo, wrestling, ***, brazilian jiu jutsu etc. You can also check how many UFC fighters have krav maga background or “shaolin kung fu” (this one is just ridiculously funny).

I wouldn't recommend learning Karate unless your goal is to fend off Samurai in 18th century Okinawa. It has applications, and you can take the stuff you learn there elsewhere, but it was very specifically designed to counter a lot of the contemporary Japanese martial training. Hell, one of the first strikes you learn in Karate is, specifically, designed to neutralize drawing a Katana. Go for the thigh? Yeah, right. You're blocking their arm movement.

Judo works. Modern police hand-to-hand in the US is based heavily off of Judo. It's not really the same martial art anymore, and simply saying, "yeah, take Judo classes," isn't going to have great results. But, it's a good foundation to build from.

Valera Progib wrote: »

Just imho with some common sense.

Okay, here's some actual common sense. Don't train to win a fight. No, really. You're not in an arena. This isn't a competition. No points awarded for putting on a good show. Train to either create an opening and get out, or to neutralize your attacker. Boxing will not do that. You'll just flail at someone in a vain desire to bloody them up, and then wonder how that "worthless Aikido" guy tossed you around like a rag doll.

Here's some less common sense that's worth knowing, but I suspect you don't understand:

Many martial arts exist with both practical and recreational variants. This is especially true of stuff like Judo, or Taikwando, where there are practical versions that will turn your average opponent into paste. There are also a lot of schools that teach variants as a recreational exercise.

Krav Maga is headed this way. The civilian variant lags about 15 years behind the military one, and is rapidly turning into a far more family friendly martial art that you can train kids in without needing to worry about liability. At the same time, the practical version is continuing to be updated, and it's out there. You're not going to find it, as frequently, in the yellow pages, but the IDF is still using it.

When a martial art has both variants, these are different martial arts. They look similar, they may sound similar, they'll have the same terminology. One of them is an immediate threat that can end your life, the other one is what you're mocking. Understanding that these things can, actually, kill you, is a good start to backing off, calming down, and not throwing up such an aggressive front, before wondering how they fractured your arm.

You wildly overestimate the purpose of Systema and Krav Maga. You understand it's purpose (practicality), but overestimate it's application. Krav Maga and Systema are designed to work with literal functioning short bussers being drafted into military service. Any combative school that aims that low for success is going to have a more realistic approach to combat - you only need to be better than the similiarily drafted turd standing across from you.

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I'll be honest. Unless you're dealing with someone who literally does not know how to fight, boxing is worthless. Most wrestling you'd get training in is a close second. Even some of the stuff you look at as worthless, like recreational Aikido can safely neutralize a boxer or wrestler.

For example, people who thing Boxing is a martial art, and not a competition sport, with very strict rules that simply don't apply when you've taken a boot to the shin.

Do you ACTUALLY believe this...?

I know it.

Boxing is specifically designed, and has evolved for a competition environment.

Actual combat is not about a fairly adjudicated arena. Boxing, actually does set, false goals for the user. And, they actually do approach live combat like they're in the ring.

Beyond that, it is an incredibly limited form. It cannot deal with opponents who redirect your inertia (so, Aikdio, or Judo), it can't deal with opponents who focus on ground fighting (Judo, again), it can't deal with martial styles that focus on range (like Taikwando.) In short, it's only really useful when you're facing off against someone who does not know what they're doing.

starkerealm wrote: »

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I'll be honest. Unless you're dealing with someone who literally does not know how to fight, boxing is worthless. Most wrestling you'd get training in is a close second. Even some of the stuff you look at as worthless, like recreational Aikido can safely neutralize a boxer or wrestler.

For example, people who thing Boxing is a martial art, and not a competition sport, with very strict rules that simply don't apply when you've taken a boot to the shin.

Do you ACTUALLY believe this...?

I know it.

Boxing is specifically designed, and has evolved for a competition environment.

Actual combat is not about a fairly adjudicated arena. Boxing, actually does set, false goals for the user. And, they actually do approach live combat like they're in the ring.

Beyond that, it is an incredibly limited form. It cannot deal with opponents who redirect your inertia (so, Aikdio, or Judo), it can't deal with opponents who focus on ground fighting (Judo, again), it can't deal with martial styles that focus on range (like Taikwando.) In short, it's only really useful when you're facing off against someone who does not know what they're doing.

Have you done any Boxing or Muay Thai?

Boxing cant deal with Taikwando?

I am speechless tbh. I think it's best if i delete my account.

Why does every thread have to turn into an argument? Why can't people just stick to the OP's question?

usmcjdking wrote: »

You wildly overestimate the purpose of Systema and Krav Maga. You understand it's purpose (practicality), but overestimate it's application. Krav Maga and Systema are designed to work with literal functioning short bussers being drafted into military service. Any combative school that aims that low for success is going to have a more realistic approach to combat - you only need to be better than the similiarily drafted turd standing across from you.

It'd be slightly more accurate to say, I"m overstating their utility. Krav Maga was designed to function best in very cramped urban environments. It's functional, but not fantastic outside of that.

Systema is a bit of a weird one. I mean, you're right about martial arts that designed to be trained quickly. But, having seen more advanced Systema, it gets weirdly elegant once someone's spent a few years with it. Still, it's another one, that has an intended utility, with quick, decisive, kills.

With Krav Maga, I know there's been a significant transition towards a recreational variant in the US. I haven't followed Systema closely enough to keep track of where it's at now, though it wouldn't surprise me if that's happened or happening now.

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

Boxing cant deal with Taikwando?

Not practical Taikwando fighters. Recreational and sport Taiwkando practitioners tend to let their guard down, and as a result are easy pickings. To be fair, you're not really going to find practical boxers, so that's already counting against them.

Tryxus wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

There are only two fighting variants that I will say WILL save your life.

Jiujitsu and Boxing and the 100m sprint. Anything else is a waste of time if you haven't mastered the aformentioned if the goal is to prevent yourself from dying.

the 100m sprint...hahahahahahahahahaha...

"Attack if you can attack, defend if you can't attack, flee if you can't defend, surrender if you can't flee, die if you can't surrender"

Yeah, there's some logic on the sprint. Self-defense is all about creating an opening and escaping. Cardio isn't absolutely necessary for this, but it is a nice option to have.

I'd still probably say police-adapted Judo is a better option if you can only pick one martial art to draw from.

geonsocal wrote: »

Hippie4927 wrote: »

Why does every thread have to turn into an argument? Why can't people just stick to the OP's question?

Some folks look for answers, others look for fights

Also, "someone on the internet is wrong." Therefore, "set fire to everything, salt the ashes, eat the survivors."

usmcjdking wrote: »

I hardly ever start barking at people on the forum, but a few of us here have been/done some ***. And we're telling you that you are feeding garbage to everyone else. Anyone who would impart any information you've provided here is likely to get themselves hurt in an actual life-threatening situation.

Okay, here's one: Don't get into ****ing fights.

You know what the most effective skill for not getting yourself killed is? Stay aware of your surroundings, and don't put yourself in a situation where any of this matters.

You know what else you shouldn't do? Don't look at a fight like a boxing match. Your only job is to make sure you get out of there in one piece, so not picking an approach that works off the idea of, "hey, I need to engage in an honorable duel with someone," is probably a very good idea.

If you're going to insist that, "no really, I need to prepare for a real fight," don't pick your martial art of a box of whatever struck you as cool in some MMA match.

usmcjdking wrote: »

Should have stopped your post after this because you are, again, repeating whatever some youtube sensei needed to say to pay for his monthly car note.

Hardly.

Okay, you want the line straight from back in Scouts? Here you go, "Most of the guys you'll encounter haven't been in a fight since High School." This was coming from a Sheriff's deputy when we were getting H2H training.

Most of the time, when you're dealing with some schmuck in a self defense situation, it's not going to be a trained combatant. They've got no idea what they're doing.

Hey, you know what sounds like a really horrible idea? Staying in the fight, and seeing how long you can hold out. Which, wait for it, oh, right, boxing. Where you stick around, and want to finish it.

And yeah, one of the other things that was said, and drilled into our heads was, "create an opening, and get out." Combat isn't a prize fight, there's no reward for sticking around.