Does ZOS Actually Know What Class Balance Is?

Ch4mpTW · November 2017

So I was browsing through the base/main CWC patch notes that are live currently on PC, as the new DLC goes live on consoles tomorrow... And umm... Guys... Either I misread a lot of things, or perhaps ZOS is a tad bit more clueless than we’d all like to believe.

Let’s begin with a class balance change comparison between DK’s and NB’s...
Dragonknights:
- Nerfed Fossilize to make Stonefist appear more appealing.
- Made Shifting Standard cost more ultimate, and made it so that you no longer generate ultimate while it is active. Mind you this was done on a class that sustains through the use of ultimates. Lol. And you reduced the uptime of it by roughly 8 to 10 seconds.
- You made Cauterize be able to self-heal (lmao), and fire off said fire balls of healing faster.

Nightblades:
- Made a HUGE buffs to both Executioner and Grim Focus. Because yeah, NB’s were definitely having trouble killing things and sustaining (/sarcasm).
- You’ve made Manifestation of Terror even more appealing.
- You’ve gone ahead and buffed Soul Siphon, because why again...? It was bad, because why?

ZOS... No. not okay. As is Nightblades are the most used class. Whether it be magicka or stamina oriented. That’s besides the point. The point is, anyone who plays ESO knows that there are far more Nightblades running about in PvE (and especially PvP) than any other class. Aaaaand you decided to throw them another bone. Where as you’ve made a class that was struggling in its usage take yet another hit to the chin (DK’s). Especially the magicka variant of DK’s. Whenever I’m out and about, whether I’m doing: Trials, dungeons, or PvP, I always get asked why it is I’m even bothering with MagDK’s. And this holds especially true now. Why bother? Why not just use 1 of my Nightblades, or just stick with my Sorc full-time? I mean, there truly is no incentive to use a MagDK outside of a trial where having a chainer would be useful *cough MoL cough*. So yeah. Why bother?

And before someone says, “Champ, you are just whining. You didn’t even list what ZOS could do to make things better.” It’s pretty much useless at this point. ZOS has received more suggestions on helping out DK’s (specifically MagDK’s) than I could count. Tons of threads about this. Yet said suggestions get ignored like 1-800 numbers that show-up on the caller ID. They don’t answer those callings.

And PS:
Can you PLEASE buff cold/frost damage, and or boost MagDen (magicka Warden) damage? Please? PLEASE!?

Lylith · November 2017

but they nerfed sorcs, so they're doing it right, yes?

Ch4mpTW · November 2017

Lylith wrote: »

but they nerfed sorcs, so they're doing it right, yes?

xD

Girl_Number8 · November 2017

Yes, that is balance if you add in the cp changes too. See everyone will be a nightblade there is your balance. Just like I will have a steady balance of ap from the stealthflakes, lol.

idk · November 2017

For starters, balance is a myth and when we are given a large selection of choices it is even more challenging to bring about balance.

However, Zos clearly does not understand their game very, besides their constantly changing vision for the game, which makes some assemblance of achieving balance that more entertaining (/sarcasm)

Thogard · November 2017

Mag DKs are fine. They aren’t overpowered but they aren’t underpowered either.

Now that I think about it, virtually every mag class is fine.. they just have different specializations.

The imbalance is more noticeable in Stam. Nobody can say with a straight face that a Stam DK and a Stam warden are balanced in PvP. But they also aren’t balanced in PvE, albeit in reverse.

Stamblades are annoying. They are strong at 1v1. But their mobility and evasion as defense mechanisms mean that they won’t be able to perform well in objective based gameplay that requires them to be out of stealth and standing their ground.

I am not saying the game is perfectly balanced... but it’s the most balanced MMO I’ve ever played.

Malic · November 2017

The problem is the CP system + the dev team. I mean its not hard to figure out the issues with balance, eliminating one or both would likely correct a lot but the CP system hands down has been a disaster for balance.

A lot of the points on this subject have been covered to death for literally years. We've all seen, made and heard arguments and counter arguments.

Here we are. Zos is at the helm. Game is PVE heaven really, pvp is a mess because of CP. Im really not seeing an issue with PVE stuff, vet dungeons are tough (some of them) overall I'd give them a b+ for PVE a D for PVP.

ccfeeling · November 2017

Beconz nbs were over nerfed in the last few patches

Apache_Kid · November 2017

Imagine thinking stamblade is overperforming at anything other than 1v1. Can tell immediately that OP has never played a stamblade in Cyrodiil or BGs. Easily one of the most difficult classes to play in PvP. OP probably does PvP on easy mode. (play sorc)

Ch4mpTW · November 2017

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Imagine thinking stamblade is overperforming at anything other than 1v1. Can tell immediately that OP has never played a stamblade in Cyrodiil or BGs. Easily one of the most difficult classes to play in PvP. OP probably does PvP on easy mode. (play sorc)

Lol. You must be new to these forums. Or, simply not know. Either way, it’s perfectly fine to not get it. I understand. Really. I get it. Let me correct you on a few things.

1. I main a MagDK in PvP, unless if I’m looking for quick AP farming.
2. I use a StamBlade for quick AP farming. Why? Because NB’s are beyond easy for AP farming.
3. Nothing about NB’s are difficult. Maybe in your opinion, but I find the class to be obnoxiously easy for PvP. Actually, PvP or PvE. And that is stamina or magicka variants. My first Flawless Conqueror back when I used to play on PC was a NB. Was my second Flawless Conqueror toon here on PS4.
4. I understand that people don’t want to see their favorite classes get hit with the nerf bat. Who does? But it stopped being funny to downplay Nightblade effectiveness months ago. It’s not funny anymore. Nightblades are the ESO equivalent to OW’s Genji. And it’s sickening.

SanTii.92 · November 2017

Posting over meaningless buffs to nbs, nicely done Champ. Btw, classes are as balanced as ever.

NewBlacksmurf · November 2017

Wen did they ever say they intended to balance classes?

I’ve heard them say they looked at popular spells within each class vs spells barely used and made changes. I’ve heard them say they compared resource use and generation, skills, passives and spells between race and class and made changes. They’ve even made changes to skills nd passives that were popular in the CP trees as well as sets.

I’ve not once heard they say they intended to balance classes as a whole. If you’re looking at anything on a 1v1 basis, stop as that’s not have they’re going about changes.

Apache_Kid · November 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Imagine thinking stamblade is overperforming at anything other than 1v1. Can tell immediately that OP has never played a stamblade in Cyrodiil or BGs. Easily one of the most difficult classes to play in PvP. OP probably does PvP on easy mode. (play sorc)

Lol. You must be new to these forums. Or, simply not know. Either way, it’s perfectly fine to not get it. I understand. Really. I get it. Let me correct you on a few things.

1. I main a MagDK in PvP, unless if I’m looking for quick AP farming.
2. I use a StamBlade for quick AP farming. Why? Because NB’s are beyond easy for AP farming.
3. Nothing about NB’s are difficult. Maybe in your opinion, but I find the class to be obnoxiously easy for PvP. Actually, PvP or PvE. And that is stamina or magicka variants. My first Flawless Conqueror back when I used to play on PC was a NB. Was my second Flawless Conqueror toon here on PS4.
4. I understand that people don’t want to see their favorite classes get hit with the nerf bat. Who does? But it stopped being funny to downplay Nightblade effectiveness months ago. It’s not funny anymore. Nightblades are the ESO equivalent to OW’s Genji. And it’s sickening.

"Wow you are really ignorant for not knowing everything about me. I'm a big deal on this internet message board you see"

LOL

Nightblades have been hit by nerfs harder than any other class other than maybe Temps since launch. Also, calling what they did to them this most recent patch a "buff" Is laughable.

Sixty5 · November 2017

I've been maining Stam Sorc in PVP for a couple of months now, but after a few bad matches in BG's today, I swapped over to my stamblade.

I had lower overall stats and I was doing an awful job with pulling off combos, and yet I was dropping bodies left and right.
Even in 7 medium, I had no issue living through anything.

I shudder to think what I'll be able to do once I get the hang of the class properly.

Morgul667 · November 2017

Balance is not as bad as what it used to be.

I like to complain about ZOS but they did some fine things lately.

rynth · November 2017

these types of threads pop up in all MMO's there will always be an imbalance somewhere it would seem. When one thing gets nerf'd then something else powerful to take it's place. Just suck it up buttercup and realize that there will more then likely always be an imbalance between builds and/or classes with every tweak or nerf

Ch4mpTW · November 2017

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Imagine thinking stamblade is overperforming at anything other than 1v1. Can tell immediately that OP has never played a stamblade in Cyrodiil or BGs. Easily one of the most difficult classes to play in PvP. OP probably does PvP on easy mode. (play sorc)

Lol. You must be new to these forums. Or, simply not know. Either way, it’s perfectly fine to not get it. I understand. Really. I get it. Let me correct you on a few things.

1. I main a MagDK in PvP, unless if I’m looking for quick AP farming.
2. I use a StamBlade for quick AP farming. Why? Because NB’s are beyond easy for AP farming.
3. Nothing about NB’s are difficult. Maybe in your opinion, but I find the class to be obnoxiously easy for PvP. Actually, PvP or PvE. And that is stamina or magicka variants. My first Flawless Conqueror back when I used to play on PC was a NB. Was my second Flawless Conqueror toon here on PS4.
4. I understand that people don’t want to see their favorite classes get hit with the nerf bat. Who does? But it stopped being funny to downplay Nightblade effectiveness months ago. It’s not funny anymore. Nightblades are the ESO equivalent to OW’s Genji. And it’s sickening.

"Wow you are really ignorant for not knowing everything about me. I'm a big deal on this internet message board you see"

LOL

Nightblades have been hit by nerfs harder than any other class other than maybe Temps since launch. Also, calling what they did to them this most recent patch a "buff" Is laughable.

Hit harder than any other class except for Templars since launch you say...? Let me take you down a stroll of memory lane. Come. Walk with me...

To the left, you see the Dragonknights who could once reflect meteors and had non-useless wings. We could them “flappers” back then. Good times, really.

To the right, you have Sorcerers. Look at them. Streaking along with no penalty, and being able to shield longer than 6 or 10 seconds. And man. Look at that C-Frag stun. Beautiful class, really. I main a PetSorc in PvE by the way. Always have and always will. Adorable little buggers. ^_^

Oh! Oh! Come! Quickly. You almost missed the amazing burst of Templars with Shards applying a stun. Amazing creatures. I have 1 of those 2, but she’s been collecting dust unfortunately. And man, see that Breath of Life healing multiple targets? That was a trademark of Templars back then. Shame they gave it to Sorcs, really. But, it is what it is.

And down here... Nightblades... They still are pretty much the same, except for them doing way more damage than they did back then. And their cloak took a slight tickle. Hardly a nerf really. But, it is what it is. We don’t talk too much about how NB’s were nerfed back in these days, and would you like to know why..? They were always the hardest hitting class outside of Sorcs.

You’re free to stroll around here all you’d like. Though, I need to warn you about the 500v500 lag-lacking zerg warfare. It can make you rather depressed and sad if you think about how beautiful it all once was back here in Azura’s Star. Rather sad indeed...

Sixty5 wrote: »

I've been maining Stam Sorc in PVP for a couple of months now, but after a few bad matches in BG's today, I swapped over to my stamblade.

I had lower overall stats and I was doing an awful job with pulling off combos, and yet I was dropping bodies left and right.
Even in 7 medium, I had no issue living through anything.

I shudder to think what I'll be able to do once I get the hang of the class properly.

And thus, you seem to be 1 of the few people who gets it. Lol. StamBlades are far from difficult. Very far from difficult. PvE or PvP. Yet, people keep swearing out how it requires this and that amount of mastery. And how weak they are. Lol.

Ch4mpTW · November 2017

rynth wrote: »

these types of threads pop up in all MMO's there will always be an imbalance somewhere it would seem. When one thing gets nerf'd then something else powerful to take it's place. Just suck it up buttercup and realize that there will more then likely always be an imbalance between builds and/or classes with every tweak or nerf

I’m going to let you in on a little secret. But don’t tell anyone, alright? It’s a secret. Only meant for you. M’kay? Are you ready?

...

Dragonknights have always been ass since the Imperials City DLC. MagDK to be specific, since StamDK’s have had their moments of highlights here and there in both in PvE and PvP. MagDK’s...? Where our last highlight was when we ruled Cyrodiil with Dynamic Ultimate (look it up) as vampires, and could reflect Meteors. You know. The “golden days”. Would you like to know how long that was...? VR14 days. Lol. Not CP140 days. No. VR14 days. We (MagDK’s) got obliterated from all angles. Couldn’t regenerate stamina while blocking, had no dynamic ultimate, had our wings ripped off and replaced with the laugh stocks we have now, and had our chains turned into plastic that are beyond inconsistent. Our skills? Obnoxiously expensive.

See that special place called “Memory Lane” that I just directed that other user toward, and briefly showed around? Feel free to browse around there. See for yourself just how badly MagDK’s have been treated.

Tryxus · November 2017

Sixty5 wrote: »

I've been maining Stam Sorc in PVP for a couple of months now, but after a few bad matches in BG's today, I swapped over to my stamblade.

I had lower overall stats and I was doing an awful job with pulling off combos, and yet I was dropping bodies left and right.
Even in 7 medium, I had no issue living through anything.

I shudder to think what I'll be able to do once I get the hang of the class properly.

A properly played StamBlade is a very elusive and hard-to-catch combatant that can hit very hard when they see an opening.

And Magicka Nightblades are these annoying (

) and fairly hard to kill ranged combatants with many HoTs that can drain your Stamina before you know it

Are Nightblades too strong? No
Are they too weak? No

Ch4mpTW · November 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Wen did they ever say they intended to balance classes?

I’ve heard them say they looked at popular spells within each class vs spells barely used and made changes. I’ve heard them say they compared resource use and generation, skills, passives and spells between race and class and made changes. They’ve even made changes to skills nd passives that were popular in the CP trees as well as sets.

I’ve not once heard they say they intended to balance classes as a whole. If you’re looking at anything on a 1v1 basis, stop as that’s not have they’re going about changes.

Damn... You’re right. I can’t think of a single time ZOS ever said that they intended upon making classes balanced. Not once...

This whole time we always blamed Wrobel for his balancing decisions, but he never once said he intended upon balancing classes. Wow... Talking about mind blown.

Apache_Kid · November 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

rynth wrote: »

these types of threads pop up in all MMO's there will always be an imbalance somewhere it would seem. When one thing gets nerf'd then something else powerful to take it's place. Just suck it up buttercup and realize that there will more then likely always be an imbalance between builds and/or classes with every tweak or nerf

I’m going to let you in on a little secret. But don’t tell anyone, alright? It’s a secret. Only meant for you. M’kay? Are you ready?

...

Dragonknights have always been ass since the Imperials City DLC. MagDK to be specific, since StamDK’s have had their moments of highlights here and there in both in PvE and PvP. MagDK’s...? Where our last highlight was when we ruled Cyrodiil with Dynamic Ultimate (look it up) as vampires, and could reflect Meteors. You know. The “golden days”. Would you like to know how long that was...? VR14 days. Lol. Not CP140 days. No. VR14 days. We (MagDK’s) got obliterated from all angles. Couldn’t regenerate stamina while blocking, had no dynamic ultimate, had our wings ripped off and replaced with the laugh stocks we have now, and had our chains turned into plastic that are beyond inconsistent. Our skills? Obnoxiously expensive.

See that special place called “Memory Lane” that I just directed that other user toward, and briefly showed around? Feel free to browse around there. See for yourself just how badly MagDK’s have been treated.

How can you honestly sit here and say MagDk is worse off as a class in Cyrodiil right now than Stamblades are. I'm speechless.

Edit: MagDk is in a bad place in PvE now but not in PvP whatsoever.

Emmagoldman · November 2017

There are for sure things zos needs to improve, being first performance and rng. The game has slowely been moving towards balance and they have been listening to feedback.

starkerealm · November 2017

Tryxus wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

I've been maining Stam Sorc in PVP for a couple of months now, but after a few bad matches in BG's today, I swapped over to my stamblade.

I had lower overall stats and I was doing an awful job with pulling off combos, and yet I was dropping bodies left and right.
Even in 7 medium, I had no issue living through anything.

I shudder to think what I'll be able to do once I get the hang of the class properly.

A properly played StamBlade is a very elusive and hard-to-catch combatant that can hit very hard when they see an opening.

And Magicka Nightblades are these annoying ( ) and fairly hard to kill ranged combatants with many HoTs that can drain your Stamina before you know it

Are Nightblades too strong? No
Are they too weak? No

Yeah, pretty much this.

An experienced Stamblade can practically teleport. I mean, you can't, and if you're the one controlling them, you know exactly what you're doing. But, for anyone else? Yeah, good luck.

Hell, fumble a gank, and you will lose a nightblade. They'll slip away, escape, or loop back and murder you.

Actually, I'm a little worried by that Executioner change. At first, I thought, "yeah, this is nice," then I realized, that was one way to help extend cloak for a stamblade, and it's gone now. Because it's a passive, it's easy to forget how important it can be to your build. (And no, I haven't been on any of my stamblades much since the patch.)

starkerealm · November 2017

Apache_Kid wrote: »

How can you honestly sit here and say MagDk is worse off as a class in Cyrodiil right now than Stamblades are. I'm speechless.

Edit: MagDk is in a bad place in PvE now but not in PvP whatsoever.

The thing about Blades is... if you know what you're doing, it is a phenomenally dangerous class. I haven't been messing around with a Stamblade in PvP since this patch hit, but, as someone who's spent the last (almost three years) learning the ins and outs of the class, and with it's state for the last couple patches before CWC, yeah, I haven no trouble believing that MagDKs are in worse shape right now, than StamBlades.

Now, fair's fair, I'm not an expert on the DK. I know my way around NBs and Sorcs; Templars and DKs have never really grabbed me in the same way. But, yeah, from what I've done with a DK in the last couple months, vs the current state of the NB? That's not really that implausible.

NBs are very fragile. If you know how to play it, you can get some fantastic results. If you don't, it can be an exercise in frustration.

Now, if there's some DK synergy that's making the MagDKs way more effective in PvP, then I'm unaware, and that one's all on me.

Ch4mpTW · November 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

How can you honestly sit here and say MagDk is worse off as a class in Cyrodiil right now than Stamblades are. I'm speechless.

Edit: MagDk is in a bad place in PvE now but not in PvP whatsoever.

The thing about Blades is... if you know what you're doing, it is a phenomenally dangerous class. I haven't been messing around with a Stamblade in PvP since this patch hit, but, as someone who's spent the last (almost three years) learning the ins and outs of the class, and with it's state for the last couple patches before CWC, yeah, I haven no trouble believing that MagDKs are in worse shape right now, than StamBlades.

Now, fair's fair, I'm not an expert on the DK. I know my way around NBs and Sorcs; Templars and DKs have never really grabbed me in the same way. But, yeah, from what I've done with a DK in the last couple months, vs the current state of the NB? That's not really that implausible.

NBs are very fragile. If you know how to play it, you can get some fantastic results. If you don't, it can be an exercise in frustration.

Now, if there's some DK synergy that's making the MagDKs way more effective in PvP, then I'm unaware, and that one's all on me.

Shiiiiiiit. That makes you and me and both. Lmao. I’ve been actively maining a MagDK in PvP for years, with me only swapping to my NB’s when I’m incredibly annoyed with overconfident folks in PvP and want to cheese AP. Last time I brought my MagSorc into PvP was to get them the “Star-Made Knight” title. And proceeded with immediately re-spec’ing them back to PvE specifications.

@Apache_Kid So please, do share if you know something that we don’t know about how glorious MagDK’s are in PvP currently. Yes, spamming Talons and popping a Fossilize and Leap here and there are cute. Yes, very cute. Sprinkle some Flash Lashes in there too, and all that jazz. Yup. Really adorable. But please, do tell me what it is that makes MagDK’s such a threat in Battlegrounds or Cyrodiil. I can’t even solo with a MagDK comfortably, because ZOS has screwed up DK’s to be a “utility bot” while steadily draining the class variant’s utility.

Malic · November 2017

Some of these people have to be new.

Remember after beta and I dont know the next 6-9 months the magi vamp DK gods that ran around? If one became emperor party over. DK's are a shadow of what they were, but they are still dam good. Anyone bitching about what a DK cant do, is likely bored with what it can do or doesnt understand the class. Go out to cyrodiil, youre going to find some of the best dps and survive in DK's. In a good players hands (someone who can ani cancel and knows his rotation) DK's are extremely potent.

NB has been in a good spot for a long time for both stam and magi. The class passives are spectacular add in CP and an enterprising player who takes their time with testing sets can pull nearly everything off in the game.

The real difference is NB isnt complex. Its got one of the cheapest magi spamables in the game, its got one of the most potent damage class ulti's in the game (and its cheap even with the bump to 70) and its got cloak. Why it isnt complex is the passive are spectacular. Really any noob can jump into a NB and perform well, in a skilled players hands its even better than a DK.

It really boils down to people trying to equate NB's potential damage output to DK's potential survival output. They do different things, if youre going to spend a lot of time on what the toon cant do and not more time on what it can do well, youre going to end up frustrated and just bad.

The best players arent more skilled then you, the best players take what a toon gives them and makes THAT ASPECT poweful which lifts everything else up.

mb10 · November 2017

NBs are the most useless when it comes to PVP group play.
Useless tanks, handicaped healers and mostly single target DPS unless you're a glass canon bomb blade who's relevant for 6 seconds of the fight every 250 ultimate.

Single target, yes they're good but if that got taken away from NBs then there is genuinely genuinely no point in the class existing.

Pls don't forget NBs have no burst heals and no class related shields. I mean, their best heal cost health!!! To cast in the first place

starkerealm · November 2017

For what it's worth, I have been soloing with a StamDK (Bow/2h). That's actually kinda fun.

starkerealm · November 2017

Malic wrote: »

The real difference is NB isnt complex. Its got one of the cheapest magi spamables in the game, its got one of the most potent damage class ulti's in the game (and its cheap even with the bump to 70) and its got cloak. Why it isnt complex is the passive are spectacular. Really any noob can jump into a NB and perform well, in a skilled players hands its even better than a DK.

While I agree with this, in general. It's probably worth pointing out that NBs operate with very little margin for error, hence the "skill" comments. It's a lot easier to recover from mistakes on... well, any other class. If you screw up on a NB, you (usually) will take a dirtnap for your mistakes.

Ch4mpTW · November 2017

Malic wrote: »

Some of these people have to be new.

Remember after beta and I dont know the next 6-9 months the magi vamp DK gods that ran around? If one became emperor party over. DK's are a shadow of what they were, but they are still dam good. Anyone bitching about what a DK cant do, is likely bored with what it can do or doesnt understand the class. Go out to cyrodiil, youre going to find some of the best dps and survive in DK's. In a good players hands (someone who can ani cancel and knows his rotation) DK's are extremely potent.

NB has been in a good spot for a long time for both stam and magi. The class passives are spectacular add in CP and an enterprising player who takes their time with testing sets can pull nearly everything off in the game.

The real difference is NB isnt complex. Its got one of the cheapest magi spamables in the game, its got one of the most potent damage class ulti's in the game (and its cheap even with the bump to 70) and its got cloak. Why it isnt complex is the passive are spectacular. Really any noob can jump into a NB and perform well, in a skilled players hands its even better than a DK.

It really boils down to people trying to equate NB's potential damage output to DK's potential survival output. They do different things, if youre going to spend a lot of time on what the toon cant do and not more time on what it can do well, youre going to end up frustrated and just bad.

The best players arent more skilled then you, the best players take what a toon gives them and makes THAT ASPECT poweful which lifts everything else up.

Wait a moment. Did you just say that DK’s have some of the best DPS and survival in PvP...? What? You must be talking about StamDK’s. You have to be talking exclusively about StamDK’s in your post. Have to. There is absolutely no possible way you are talking about MagDK’s in the slightest. Have you not encountered a Sorc in PvP or a NB in regards to damage and survival? Actually, screw them both. Have you ever encountered a MagPlar in PvP (regarding survival)?

By the way, this all extends beyond PvP. In PvE, MagDK damage is barely hanging on to being relevant. And that’s only because they gutted MagPlars, and MagDen DPS is atrocious (BUFF MAGICKA WARDEN HNNNNNNG!!!). So all you’re left with is NB and Sorc regarding high DPS in end-game content. And even then, what does MagDK bring to the table? A possible off-balance and Engulfing Flames. That’s it. Unless you’re doig VMoL and need a chainer, or VH-RC and need a Deep Breath for right side/top group. That’s it. And even then, you don’t exactly require a MagDK for top group. It just makes it easier.

Apache_Kid · November 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

How can you honestly sit here and say MagDk is worse off as a class in Cyrodiil right now than Stamblades are. I'm speechless.

Edit: MagDk is in a bad place in PvE now but not in PvP whatsoever.

The thing about Blades is... if you know what you're doing, it is a phenomenally dangerous class. I haven't been messing around with a Stamblade in PvP since this patch hit, but, as someone who's spent the last (almost three years) learning the ins and outs of the class, and with it's state for the last couple patches before CWC, yeah, I haven no trouble believing that MagDKs are in worse shape right now, than StamBlades.

Now, fair's fair, I'm not an expert on the DK. I know my way around NBs and Sorcs; Templars and DKs have never really grabbed me in the same way. But, yeah, from what I've done with a DK in the last couple months, vs the current state of the NB? That's not really that implausible.

NBs are very fragile. If you know how to play it, you can get some fantastic results. If you don't, it can be an exercise in frustration.

Now, if there's some DK synergy that's making the MagDKs way more effective in PvP, then I'm unaware, and that one's all on me.

Shiiiiiiit. That makes you and me and both. Lmao. I’ve been actively maining a MagDK in PvP for years, with me only swapping to my NB’s when I’m incredibly annoyed with overconfident folks in PvP and want to cheese AP. Last time I brought my MagSorc into PvP was to get them the “Star-Made Knight” title. And proceeded with immediately re-spec’ing them back to PvE specifications.

@Apache_Kid So please, do share if you know something that we don’t know about how glorious MagDK’s are in PvP currently. Yes, spamming Talons and popping a Fossilize and Leap here and there are cute. Yes, very cute. Sprinkle some Flash Lashes in there too, and all that jazz. Yup. Really adorable. But please, do tell me what it is that makes MagDK’s such a threat in Battlegrounds or Cyrodiil. I can’t even solo with a MagDK comfortably, because ZOS has screwed up DK’s to be a “utility bot” while steadily draining the class variant’s utility.

All of the things you just mentioned plus having shields. StamNb currently squishest class, no heal other than vigor or shields, only option to purge is a skill that costs all their magicka which takes away the use of cloak. And most of the things you are trying to purge (haunting curse) can be reapplied right after you purge it. And cloak? Please. Try cloaking with like any dot ability on you and it will pull you out instantly. Cloak doesn't work half the time because of this and it is their only defense other than dodge roll.