The future of ESO's expansions in terms of difficulty
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Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I really wish there was actually a difficult slider in the settings somewhere.
All you would have to do was change the way the game scales to you level, you get less bonuses or whatever they do to scale the game for you.
When I am leveling a new character I never put the points into cp, just to have the new character feeling.4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The comparison OP makes is irrelevant. WoW, I do not know about GW2, has a completely different design than ESO. At that, ESO is not raising the level cap with a new chapter.
Further, WoWs increase in difficulty when raising the level cap is artificial. Once someone has the new gear it is just the same. It is the same for SWTOR as well and any game that increases the level cap with their expansions or otherwise.
So in the end, OP really does not have a point that holds water. Not suggesting I would not like things a little more challenging, but no MMORPG is going to increase the difficulty once a year and wash out part of their player base. It is just not logical. Bad business.1 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Overland isn't meant to be difficult. it's meant to be immersive and enjoyable, relaxing even. It's for the many people who just want to come home from work and chill out with a glass of wine, exploring Tamriel and enjoying the stories as they unfold.
PVP is for the people who want to compete. If you want to wave your ePeen around, go there. No PvE content will ever be anywhere near as challenging as other players. It does not suffer from power creep. You will die, they will die, everyone will die.
Dungeons and Trials are for the cooperative challenge people. Can we work well enough as a group to pull this off. Can we do this choreographed dance well enough to not die.
vMA is the solo version of this. Everyone who has finished it will tell you, it's all about learning the mechanics.
If you're finding overland too easy, your not the target demographic. It's like going to the Opera and asking them to drop some "sick beats".4 -
mocap✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just increase that 32k hp mobs to 64k, and give them somekind of a hidden damage multiplier when damaging CP160+ players, like 1.5x (or more) damage. So it's still easy for new players and lil bit harder for CP players.0 -
greylox✭✭✭✭✭Get rid of levels on gear.
Give enemies a wide range of cp levels.PC EU
House of the Black Lotus
*{Smokes-in-the-Shade }* (Mag pet Sorc Argonian, prolific thief, willing participant of the dark arts, gardener of exotic...herbs)
{Lugdum The Mechanist} (Hybrid Orc Templar, collector of ancient Ayleid smoking pipes)
{Rantoul} (Dark Elf Magknight, likes an ale between boss fights, has been known to offer daedric princes out in a fist fight)
{Red, The Wanderer} (Bosmer stam sorc and hunter extraordinaire)
{Shoots-For-Stars} (Argonian Mag pet Sorc Ice mage Healer)
*{Jinny the spark }* (Sassy Imperial Stamplar)
{Crezzi the Drifter} (Magblade khajiit burglar, available for questionable operations)
{Grif the Despised} (StamKnight Tank Nord, Eastmarch Master Drinker and spinner of tall yarns)
{Geraldine Stone-Heart} (High Elf MagSorc Ice Tank, Mystic, practitioner of the ancient arts)
*{Anawinn}* (Stam pet Ward Redguard, Mother to a bear and an unruly Hunger,Librarian, field medic and natures fist)
{*}Mains
{ CP 900+ }
Caretaker of Battle Island (Grand Topal), the holiday destination for the discerning warrior
Residing in Stay-Moist Mansion-Shadowfen - The Smoking Den (as of 6th feb 2017)1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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This, vet version give better rewards but it harder.Fingolfinn01 wrote: »seedubsrun wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Translation: WAAAAH! WAAAAH! MAKE IT HARDER!
You cite MMO's that make things harder at high levels. Go play them. This game is not equipped to make difficulty fun.
And I've never understood the players who simply want this game to conform to they're interests.
The overland content being hard is what drove players away in the beginning. Wonder what'll happen if it happens again? OH WAIT.
Wow someone who complains about complaining. How refreshing. Ignore this one OP. There are plenty of people and several somewhat recent posts sharing your concern. There's been many suggestions, a lot of them good, on how Zos could approach this. They usually come down to "would be a waste of time and money" (To which I say, giving players more out of the existing content is likely a money saver in reality and a good ass idea) or "Zos wont bother with it" (To which I'd say, I hope that's not true but probably is)
I'd like to see it happen but be optional. More like a normal/Vet toggle in some way. I feel as the CP cap increases the difficulty of overland and questing will get easier and easier until new expansions granting new locations will be very boring to play through. I haven't finished the last 3 content expansions because of this. I guess we'll see what they do.
^^^^^^^^^
I think the best solution is a normal/vet toggle for the overland with risk vs reward.
Its an middle ground, nobody want overland to be vMA, having an new zone who is not an starting zone being something like current craglorn and public dungeons on the other hand.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »I will never understand this (relatively) new obsession with having games become so frustratingly difficult that you risk giving yourself a stroke just trying to get the smallest thing accomplished...
When I say this, I mean; there's this group of people, who think that every bit of a game needs to be so difficult, that you're constantly banging your head against a wall and frustration raging across your living room.
Why?
If you want you games to have the difficulty of Dark Souls, dipped in Meth, then given an advanced case of rabies... there's games designed specifically for that. Why is there this campaign to make -EVERY- game difficult like this?!?
The Gamers who're proactively arguing for this... you -MUST- realize that you're in the vast minority on this right? I mean, you're the niche-inside-of-a-niche in the genre.
Why argue to have the game ruined for 99.99% of players, just so you can have a rage-stroke because a game is made that damn difficult?
Still if you are an new player with an inefficient build no set armor or blue food the game is not trivial.
On the other hand an dlc zone like clockwork city does not have to be for new players.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, overland content will never again be super hard and require grouping (minus some things like world bosses). They tried with Craglorn and it failed miserably. The hard content in this game will continue to come from things like veteran dungeons and trials.
Having separate alliances where you can not team up and an originally harder group zone (Craglorn) are two different things which I believe should not be confused.
While the former was necessary to remove, I believe that to nerf Craglorn *at the same time* was unnecessary.
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Speaking for myself: I was perfectly fine with veteran content difficulty besides that the respawn timer of the overland mobs had to be adjusted a little (it was a bit too tedious because the fights took so long).
But with three alliances separated, I believe most people (at least me) ended up doing solo content of the other alliances and not many arrived in Craglorn. I did all content on my own, but shortly after I arrived in Craglorn, the 1T update hit.
All what we want is exclusive content for veteran players. It is not that the playerbase is too low for that; when I am in CWC I see almost entirely cp600+ characters around me. So let's make content for these players.
For me now almost all solo content mobs including their bosses die within a few seconds. At the same time every expansion the level cap rises. This degree of simplicity is really not fun for me anymore. Slower the level cap increase and raise the difficulty please. There is no real solo content achievement, no real challenge anymore.
If the game is too easy for us veteran players, they will turn at some point to other more challenging games, contradicting the intention of 1T to get more players to the game.
We've had enough beginner friendly content now, lets get more attention to vet-only content. Imo the current difficulty level of Craglorn, but a little more harder, would be perfect for future expansions.
Damn I remember the time when I first arrived in the Pact starter Zone (playing an AD character) and a wolf attacked me... I felt like playing the game for the first time again, it was really exciting.Edited by Adernath on November 1, 2017 9:36AM2 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »The game needs a difficulty toggle that disables your CP (and maybe scales down your gear too). This way, casuals can still enjoy the story/collect achievements, while those of us who want a little bit of resistance from the game can also have our fun.
Unless you create separate achievements for playing the game in hard mode or in baby mode I am totally against something like that, because the challenge needs to be the same for everyone to legitimately show off said achievements.0 -
Storymaster✭✭✭✭✭Unless you create separate achievements for playing the game in hard mode or in baby mode I am totally against something like that, because the challenge needs to be the same for everyone to legitimately show off said achievements.
And here, ladies and gentlemen, we get to the crux of the matter. Public epeen measuring is what they are really after, not their claims of enjoying difficult content for the sake of it.
I knew it smelled fishy from the beginning.
You know, I'm almost 40 years old. My father is twenty years older than me. He doesn't play MMOs, but he does play single player games at the most difficult setting because he likes a challenge, in private, where no one will see what he has done. But not you guys, apparently. You've tipped your hand and now we know what you're really after.
Edited by Storymaster on November 1, 2017 10:12AM5 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Very few games are hard these days. Devs try to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
It's unfortunate, but it's reality.
Or, possibly, the audience isn't that big.
Look at dark souls. Compared to other games at the time, it had a comparatively low budget. It aimed, for a target audience. It hit that audience. It was profitable, because it ajusted it's expectations.
Problem ain' the world. Problem is you my man.
The Dark Souls games have sold over 8 million copies, and it's a single player game. The target audience is not small whatsoever. Your argument has no support from actual facts.
This game is too easy.2 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭Storymaster wrote: »
And here, ladies and gentlemen, we get to the crux of the matter. Public epeen measuring is what they are really after, not their claims of enjoying difficult content for the sake of it.
I knew it smelled fishy from the beginning.
You know, I'm almost 40 years old. My father is twenty years older than me. He doesn't play MMOs, but he does play single player games at the most difficult setting because he likes a challenge, in private, where no one will see what he has done. But not you guys, apparently. You've tipped your hand and now we know what you're really after.
The primary concern is the simplicity of the game world for veteran level players in regards of SOLO content. I want to show-off hard earned achievements or rare titles. I want more competition, more challenges in regards of SOLO content. If you have a problem with that, fine, not me.0 -
Rex-Umbra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Overland needs improved NPC AI and scalable difficulty. It's pathetic how npcs do no dmg and often die before getting 1 attack off.Xbox GT: Rex Umbrah
GM of IMPERIUM since 2015.2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Whilst I appreciate the benefits of the One Tamriel update, I think it has made certain content (especially solo content) quite easy for players that are 160CP or above.
My main concern is how will this impact ESO’s future Chapters (“expansions”) moving forward.
Because as things stand, although the story behind ESO’s first expansion is great and all the rest – there really isn’t any challenge element to the solo content.
Using World of WarCraft and Guild Wars 2 as examples –
In WoW, with each expansion comes an increase in the level cap. The new content reflects this increase and makes things harder accordingly – and so that’s the challenge element.
In GW2, although levels are not that important anymore, players – at the very least – must become max level before they can enjoy the content of the expansions (HoT and the forthcoming new one). Once in this content, things are somewhat challenging.
But, in ESO, because of the One Tamriel update – Morrowind’s solo content is not really challenging for those that are 160CP or above, which I feel takes some of the enjoyment out of playing. ESO is the only MMO that I know of where a level one newbie can jump right into the new content of an expansion and start playing (save for those MMOs that offer level boosts).
Now I accept that there is other challenging content for 160CP+ players other than the solo content; and I also accept the whole point of the One Tamriel update was for players to go anywhere with friends etc.
But, the question I ask is – will this be the same for all future ESO expansions?
I ask this because if the CP cap continues to rise, but the content difficulty stays the same – all future solo content in expansions will be ridiculously easy.
Apart from one day raising ESO’s 160CP soft cap and having that reflected in the content of future expansions only – I can’t see what else can be done to overcome the above issue. However, by doing that, new players would not be able to jump straight into the new content, which would defeat the purpose of the One Tamriel Update…
It would be great to hear what other players feel about this.
I disagree with you that One Tamriel and level scaling is the problem because the landscape was easy before One Tamriel. in fact I would argue it was even easier because you would usually out-level the zone (in fact you couldn't avoid it if you took the time to fully explore and do all the quests).
I do agree with you that they need to increase the difficulty on the landscape though. The enemies need more health, offense etc. They die far too quickly and pose no real threat. And that does take a lot of fun out of exploring.3 -
munster1404✭✭✭✭I suck at recognising mechanics, dodging and rotations, so easier soloable content is a plus. I started playing ESO a few months after One Tamriel . CP helps me aplenty in terms of survivability, and I could only solo my first WB at CP470. So I don't really understand the vitriol many players have towards this progression system.0
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exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Narvuntien wrote: »I really wish there was actually a difficult slider in the settings somewhere.
All you would have to do was change the way the game scales to you level, you get less bonuses or whatever they do to scale the game for you.
When I am leveling a new character I never put the points into cp, just to have the new character feeling.
And then what? Do you expect ZOS to create a stand alone instance for each and every difficulty slider level? Or do you expect ZOS to give you your own entire instance to yourself when you decide to adjust the difficulty?
This is the problem with people on this forum, they think they have solutions but have no idea of the repercussions their suggestions would bring.
Ill help you out here...
First of all, incentives need to be in place for players to subject themselves to increased difficulty, this is simple game design 101. Secondly, assuming a difficultly could be implemented and given proper incentives, the system would be a broken mess since you can not guarantee outside player intervention wont occur. You slider difficulty up to 11 and then what? your rewards are scaled to have the highest payout (this is the incentive) and then random player approaches and........... what? does that player automatically get adjusted to your personal difficulty setting? I dont have to tell you how ridiculous that would be and the ramifications it would have on players screwing over other players in overland content. So then what? I dont have to tell you how much of a logistical nightmare and resource hog it would be to give each and every player their own overland instance based on their desired difficulty setting.
Stop asking for such a feature, it doesnt make any sense and can not be implemented.
Edited by exeeter702 on November 2, 2017 5:17PM0 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭I just played again on a new character with no cp assigned. The game really needs stronger overland mobs, I can light attack through everything ...
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