raj72616a wrote: »

i tried healing, can't heal monsters to death, get frustuated at low dps from pug, went back to tanking, and joined the blame the healer herd.

Maybe I'll switch to tanking then as I did in other mmos, but I like the utility and buffs a healer can provide and watch the DPS shoot up for a couple of seconds, knowing eledrain, combat prayer, warhorn, spellpower and wormcult set + the templar passive illuminate wich increases dmg 5% for 20 sec everytime I use a skill from the dawn tree.

Healers are silent heroes.
We are more masochistic than tanks.
We get all the blame,
And none of the glory.
But we carry on,
silently buffing and debuffing,
carrying Low DPS,
keeping squishiness at bay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DxS7eT_ky4

Let me play devils advocate first.

More competent players first look at CP as a starting point when judging the capability of a player. A lower CP player at times usually means they are under geared or do not have the CP to supplement the damage the group is expecting them to bring. The majority of cases in players lower than 300 CP is that they are not fully competent in their designated role, which in my opinion is a proven fact over the course of several months since I returned to playing the game (I came back to ESO after 2 year hiatus back in April).

PUG Damage Dealers (DPS) of lower CP tiers, especially in random group finder, make mistakes and/or cannot keep up with a competent group. In my experience, the worst PUG is the DD that sits at range and only does Light Attack, Snipe and Poison Injection throughout the whole dungeon whether it be normal or veteran. That is unacceptable across the board. In Veteran dungeons, a PUG DD should at least be able to pull their own weight and be able to self sustain to a certain extent, but more importantly, if they can't put damage on the board they're pretty much wasting everyone's time.

PUG Tanks of lower CP tiers is a different issue and more generally accepted by more experienced players. As long as the PUG Tank can hold taunt, keep block up and stay alive there usually isn't an issue. The real issue is when the Tank (of any class) shows up with less than 25k HP wearing PvP gear is the real issue. When your Tank cannot hold taunt, constant switches back and forth from 1h/shield to dual wield or 2h back bar to deal damage, there is a problem. Not doing their job.

PUG Healers of lower CP tiers have faults and in most cases cannot keep up with the pace of a well oiled machine-like group of DDs and Tank. They usually don't have the right skills needed to keep up and/or do not have the CP to supplement their defenses. Most low CP healers rely on Rapid Regen or Mutagen to heal the party, which is only a band-aid and wet napkin in more challenging dungeons. PUG Healers also tend to try and do damage, such as Templar Healers spamming sweeps, or Sorc Healers throwing down Liquid Lightning and Blockade when they should be spamming healing springs, combat prayer and using Negate when needed.

On the other hand....

Max CP Damage Dealers that cannot pull their weight are worthless trash. Simple as that. I have had on multiple occasions in which my group PUG'd some DDs for Vet Dungeons and received 600+ CP DDs that couldn't crack 25% group DPS. I've had guildie DDs that I pulled into my group that said they were max CP thinking "okay, he must somewhat good since he's max CP" that ended up being a Light Attack / Snipe / Spam Flurry jack ass that couldn't pull his weight. I was a healer doing 15% group DPS with only heavy attack and shock blockade, my other DD was doing 65% and tank did 2%... you can do the math. Unacceptable.

Max CP Tanks are easy to judge. Is the tank wearing Valkyn Skoria? Is the tank wearing carrying a 2-hander at any time? Does the tank have less than 25k HP? Is the tank spamming jabs, not blocking and casting abilities that are clearly DD abilities? Is the tank falling asleep at the wheel which is why the boss isn't taunted and attacking you? Is the tank always dying even with a competent healer? If the answer is No to all the above, you don't have a problem.

Max CP Healers are usually not a problem, which is why groups usually want a 400+ CP healer. More magicka recover, more health and more damage mitigation. However, if the healer was also any of the above that I just mentioned, then it doesn't matter what CP they are. Its not going to go well.

In honest truth, I judged players by their CP before I had the person detailed in the Max CP DD rant. I understand the OP frustration. The upper end of the end game community judges lower CP players too harshly. In most cases its well deserved, especially toward the player that doesn't put in the effort to learn their role and figure out what skills work best and what is expected of them in their role. But I recently had several 300-350 CP players complete both vSO HM, vAA and vHRC these past couple days. All progression groups with the highlight being a single attempt vSO Ozara kill, which is one of the hardest fights for a progression group.

So my advice to players --- Stop judging players by their CP. If you want something specific, then you should just get someone from within your guild that you are already confident in or someone from your friends list.

Gulnagel wrote: »

show previous quotes

paulsimonps wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DxS7eT_ky4

Haha before I watched the video I thought you said in a subtle way "learn to play"

Nah It just really fit in with the topic

Iselin wrote: »

That first boss in WGT is a positioning check more than a DPS one... as you quickly saw with your 11K health DPS scrub that kept dying

That is more about the fact that he had 11k health in vWGT. WAY to low HP.

paulsimonps wrote: »

show previous quotes

Iselin wrote: »

That first boss in WGT is a positioning check more than a DPS one... as you quickly saw with your 11K health DPS scrub that kept dying

That is more about the fact that he had 11k health in vWGT. WAY to low HP.

11K health is way to low for normal WGT.
Yes you can run out of food or forget to eat before fight. It they start arguing about that, leave.
He is an obvious idiot.

Those guys are *** themselves and glad that there is someone to put the blame on

I actually queue almost all my dailies just so that I can play with all level of players. Sometimes I have to put on dps to carry them a bit, but it's okay. People booting others because of their own downfalls is sad. Sorry you go through that /:

Hibiki54 wrote: »

Let me play devils advocate first.

More competent players first look at CP as a starting point when judging the capability of a player. A lower CP player at times usually means they are under geared or do not have the CP to supplement the damage the group is expecting them to bring. The majority of cases in players lower than 300 CP is that they are not fully competent in their designated role, which in my opinion is a proven fact over the course of several months since I returned to playing the game (I came back to ESO after 2 year hiatus back in April).

PUG Damage Dealers (DPS) of lower CP tiers, especially in random group finder, make mistakes and/or cannot keep up with a competent group. In my experience, the worst PUG is the DD that sits at range and only does Light Attack, Snipe and Poison Injection throughout the whole dungeon whether it be normal or veteran. That is unacceptable across the board. In Veteran dungeons, a PUG DD should at least be able to pull their own weight and be able to self sustain to a certain extent, but more importantly, if they can't put damage on the board they're pretty much wasting everyone's time.

PUG Tanks of lower CP tiers is a different issue and more generally accepted by more experienced players. As long as the PUG Tank can hold taunt, keep block up and stay alive there usually isn't an issue. The real issue is when the Tank (of any class) shows up with less than 25k HP wearing PvP gear is the real issue. When your Tank cannot hold taunt, constant switches back and forth from 1h/shield to dual wield or 2h back bar to deal damage, there is a problem. Not doing their job.

PUG Healers of lower CP tiers have faults and in most cases cannot keep up with the pace of a well oiled machine-like group of DDs and Tank. They usually don't have the right skills needed to keep up and/or do not have the CP to supplement their defenses. Most low CP healers rely on Rapid Regen or Mutagen to heal the party, which is only a band-aid and wet napkin in more challenging dungeons. PUG Healers also tend to try and do damage, such as Templar Healers spamming sweeps, or Sorc Healers throwing down Liquid Lightning and Blockade when they should be spamming healing springs, combat prayer and using Negate when needed.

On the other hand....

Max CP Damage Dealers that cannot pull their weight are worthless trash. Simple as that. I have had on multiple occasions in which my group PUG'd some DDs for Vet Dungeons and received 600+ CP DDs that couldn't crack 25% group DPS. I've had guildie DDs that I pulled into my group that said they were max CP thinking "okay, he must somewhat good since he's max CP" that ended up being a Light Attack / Snipe / Spam Flurry jack ass that couldn't pull his weight. I was a healer doing 15% group DPS with only heavy attack and shock blockade, my other DD was doing 65% and tank did 2%... you can do the math. Unacceptable.

Max CP Tanks are easy to judge. Is the tank wearing Valkyn Skoria? Is the tank wearing carrying a 2-hander at any time? Does the tank have less than 25k HP? Is the tank spamming jabs, not blocking and casting abilities that are clearly DD abilities? Is the tank falling asleep at the wheel which is why the boss isn't taunted and attacking you? Is the tank always dying even with a competent healer? If the answer is No to all the above, you don't have a problem.

Max CP Healers are usually not a problem, which is why groups usually want a 400+ CP healer. More magicka recover, more health and more damage mitigation. However, if the healer was also any of the above that I just mentioned, then it doesn't matter what CP they are. Its not going to go well.

In honest truth, I judged players by their CP before I had the person detailed in the Max CP DD rant. I understand the OP frustration. The upper end of the end game community judges lower CP players too harshly. In most cases its well deserved, especially toward the player that doesn't put in the effort to learn their role and figure out what skills work best and what is expected of them in their role. But I recently had several 300-350 CP players complete both vSO HM, vAA and vHRC these past couple days. All progression groups with the highlight being a single attempt vSO Ozara kill, which is one of the hardest fights for a progression group.

So my advice to players --- Stop judging players by their CP. If you want something specific, then you should just get someone from within your guild that you are already confident in or someone from your friends list.

I may agree to the DD thing (oh I know those 660+ CP LA spammer who even have that annoying attitude to stand on range in every boss encounter even if the boss has scripted attacks to jump to the farest player...) but may add some things to the tank and healer arguments you brought forth. A good tank does a lot more as just the described things and to be honest I saw quite alot low CP healers which did their main job (healing) and their "second main job" - which means buffing and support - quite good. On the other hand I still met 600+ CP healers who never heard of shards / bubbles, drain and Combat Prayer in PUGs or never heard of Healing Springs and think it's a cool idea to use the templar healing ultimate as the only AoE heal...In addition as a DD I would love a healer throwing a lighting wall for the Exploiter CP star...in addition Liquid Lightning (Sorc) and Talons (DK) are the most useful synergies when it comes to adding AoE dps, but I agree it should not necessarily be the healer to drop them.

As somebody who mains a NB healer and is only 335 CP I've actually never encountered any sort of hostility. Either about healing on my class or my CP. And I've healed most of the vet dungeons at this point, including vWGT.

Maybe I'm just lucky?

The closest was a guildie who put together a nSO run and thought I wouldn't be able to do enough healing. We actually ended up with 2 NB healers in the end and almost nobody died despite some of the groups best efforts.

As low cp I played mostly as healer and people were usually quite nice even when I screwed things up. The supposed "blame-the-healer" mentality I'd say is fairly rare in this game. Blaming dd's is far more popular.

Gulnagel wrote: »

Hi, I main a templar Breton healer. First time I completed veteran white gold tower I did it with a random group through the dungeonfinder, it was before the latest nerf to the dungeon, and we did the last boss on hardmode.

I was CP level 210 ran a full setup of wormcult and a full setup of spellpower cure(I did not have perfect traits on the gear and still don't, rng isn't on my side), ofcourse I used rotations and buffs like eledrain and warhorn.

When I first loaded in to the dungeon that time, the higher CP players imideatly started to say things like "rip healer", "this is a waste of time". But we got to the first boss, I healed through it like a breeze and then the attititude changed from hostile to acceptance, they said things like "I feel dumb judging you like that", " I'm sorry", "you heal good".
And as stated above we made it, we made it good.

Am I the best healer? Definitely not.
Am I a healer that actually play as a healer, eats food and research my role, study mechanics, gear, skills, buffs and rotation? Yes that I am.

At the moment I'm only CP 369 I've done vCoS, vICP, vWgT, vFH and more with random groups through groupfinder, a lot of times when people see my CP they comment on it, leaves or sometimes kick.

Worst is when people write in zonechat looking for healer for the veteran DLC dungeons and as soon as I get invited they boot me because of my CP. When I look for a group myself in zonechat and inv players for harder DLC dungeons they usually leave the group emideatly when they see my CP. So I've given up on pulling together a group outside of dungeon finder.

In return it has made me a better healer, everything is harder with pugs and no communication so I've learned my class inside out, I was determined to be a healer since lvl 1 and worked towards that, but my CP won't let me have it easy and makes me easy to judge or blame.

For instance I joined vWGT with a randoms via dungeonfinder today. I end up with a CP 630 tank and 2 dps around CP 400.

We kill the mobs in the first area and before we can enter the room with the first boss the door is guarded by a big gatekeeper monster.

This monster I always see as a bit of dps-check. We engage in combat, the dmg isn't good and the poison aoe the boss does kills one of the dps 4 times, and the other dps 1-2 times because they don't dodge but instead stand still in red like it was my healing spring. Red = dead.

Anyway we got the gatekeeper down and the tank says "sorry guys DPS to low" wich it was and he leaves. And then one of the DPS that died 4 times goes " well I need heals" I look at his health 11,2 K in vWGT, standing in red, no food buff. But ofcourse it's the healers fault, no healer can heal a dps with no resistance and 11k health in a red poison pool and it can spawn more than one pool underneath you, so ofcourse you drop faster than a granny on ice. I tell him and then I'm the idiot, so I leave.

Join another vWGT and a 660 DPS imideatly calls me noob, based on my CP. He pulls 15 mobs and die, we get the first boss down and I'm kicked after.

So where am I going with this, well first of, why this hostility towards lower CP players?

Do you my fellow healers also experience this "blame the healer mentality"?

Your perseverance is certainly commendable. There is quite a lot of elitist attitudes in this game that have had bad experiences with low CP players and tend to judge the lot based on those experiences. For you to heal vWGT is great, for you to heal vWGT with a group find PUG, that is extraordinary. Don’t let the elitists bring you down, once you get max CP they will be WISHING they had you in their group!

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

If you wear spc, food buff and use ele drain, youre already far better than the majority of healers in this game so I think its probably not your fault that they kicked you. There's just so many stupid and toxic players who think that other players are here to serve them and carry them, its just ridiculous.
Anyway, its much better to join a guild, especially if youre a tank or healer. Most of dds in group finder cannot break 10k dps, buffing them just isnt worth it. And of course, they will blame you for everything, because theyre so awesome and special that it's never their fault if they die.

^This is the best words of wisdom^