If you want a PvP skill in your PvE build, it's not really that hard to get, especially if you jump into the PUGs or zergs that are nearly always running in Cyrodiil and take / defend a few keeps. Add in a few of the PvP quests to capture keeps and outposts and you'll have Caltrops, Vigor and Purge in no time. While you're at it pick up some of the Skyshards and Delve bosses, Cyrodiil is a hybrid PvP and PvE zone after all. The PvP'ers and gankers don't tend to bother much with the PVE areas in Cyrodiil, you can usually pick up the skyshards without much hassle. Imperial City, on the other hand, is ganker heaven.

It's no different to players who don't like dungeons needing to do some dungeon content to earn their Undaunted skills and passives.

Or players who don't like playing as an Assassin needing to do so to get the Shadow Rider DB passive, which is extremely convenient for general travelling.

If you're not a big fan of PvP and not yet 50 then I would recommend doing the non-50 Cyrodiil campaign as this is a somewhat more forgiving environment than level 50 PvP (CP and non CP).

Sixty5 wrote: »

Because it is intended as a PVP ability to deny areas to an enemy.

It pulls people out of stealth and denies mounting, as well as giving an advantage with the snare.

A primarily PVP ability that is useful in PVE. That is why you need to do PVP for it.

In fact, Anti-Cavalry caltrops should give everyone an idea...

tizodd wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

PVEers who PVP solely because they copy-paste builds from popular streamers/YouTubers that include Alliance skills are generally free AP, so...

If you hate PVPing, maybe don't chase PVP skills just 'cause some streamer said you should? Maybe try to create a build that doesn't use caltrops/vigor ? *shrug*

...When I saw it was a stamina based aoe/dot/dps/cc ability that dealt physical damage, I thought to myself "wow that would fit really nicely in my rotation...I can replace Rearming Trap with that and be better equipped to deal with groups." In other words, my decision to get Caltrops is based on my own reasoning. I didn't blindly follow a build. The fact that someone else used it in their build does not mean every single person who uses it after them is copy-pasting...

If you’re thinking of replacing Trap with Caltrops and not using both it’s pretty clear you’re not looking at builds. You’re missing how well increased crit damage amps dps in AOE situations.

tizodd wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

PVEers who PVP solely because they copy-paste builds from popular streamers/YouTubers that include Alliance skills are generally free AP, so...

If you hate PVPing, maybe don't chase PVP skills just 'cause some streamer said you should? Maybe try to create a build that doesn't use caltrops/vigor ? *shrug*

Weak argument. You're assuming you know why every person ultimately makes the decision to include Caltrops in their build. It' true, I kept seeing it mentioned in just about every stamina build, so I looked into it to see what it was all about. When I saw it was a stamina based aoe/dot/dps/cc ability that dealt physical damage, I thought to myself "wow that would fit really nicely in my rotation...I can replace Rearming Trap with that and be better equipped to deal with groups." In other words, my decision to get Caltrops is based on my own reasoning. I didn't blindly follow a build. The fact that someone else used it in their build does not mean every single person who uses it after them is copy-pasting...

Also, no one is chasing "pvp skills" for use in pve. The Alliance passives are true pvp abilities. I have absolutely no use for the passives outside of pvp. Many of the actives however, are quite useful in pve (specifically Assault actives). Even the morph of Caltrops is still useful in pve: the increased duration means you can go about doing other things instead of recasting Caltrops.

Perhaps you're personally not following the meta or copypasta-ing, but I can almost guarantee you that the vast majority of casual stamina players who hate PVP with a passion and have vigor/caltrops on their bars do so because guys like Alcast and Deltia recommend using them in a number of their builds. Same goes for healers and tanks who use Warhorn.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that those skills aren't nice to have in PVE or that they don't have PVE utility. What I'm saying is that you don't need them for PVE. There are plenty of other alternatives that are just as useful (or marginally less useful, at the worst) available to every race/class/role. Some players act like they can't play the game without vigor/caltrops, and suggest that ZOS has forced PVP on them against their will, which is just silly.

No sympathy. Really. Not one shred of sympathy. Leveling Alliance abilities takes no time when compared to the PvE time it takes to ready a character for PvP.

Gargath wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

If you hate PVPing, maybe don't chase PVP skills just 'cause some streamer said you should? Maybe try to create a build that doesn't use caltrops/vigor?

When indeed caltrops are not so much needed, vigor is absolutely top healing skill for most pve stamina builds. That's good reason why the issue was raised.

I don't dispute the fact that Vigor is a nice stamina heal; what I dispute is its necessity. If you're running dungeons//trials you have healers around, yes? If you're doing standard PVE content you can roll your face over your keyboard/controller and survive, yes? Vigor is pretty crucial for vMA, but how many people run vMA on a regular basis? It's also helpful for soloing dungeons, but how many people solo dungeons on a regular basis? For minor self-healing in PVE content, Rally + any class heal is usually sufficient.

And anyway, even if you DO want Vigor and don't like to PVP, it has already been established over and over again that the time required to gain the skill simply by repairing keeps/following a zerg is minimal. Caltrops is a bit harder to get by doing the bare minimum in Cyrodiil, but as you yourself point out, it's not needed.

tizodd wrote: »

Caltrops is one of the better stamina aoe abilities but in order to get it I have to grind pvp. I have absolutely no interest in pvp. I just finished running around in Cyrodil with a group trying to do stuff and it was honestly the worst experience I've had to-date in ESO. If I wanted to pvp I'd be playing Call of Duty or one of those MOBAs. Up to now I've been really enjoying ESO. I'm cp320 and have a few level 50 characters and master crafters. Now I'm working on my dps DK and it seems I'm going to be forced to pvp if I want this powerful pve ability.

I'm sure someone will point out the fact that one of the morphs is for use against mounted characters, but it's still largely a pve ability. There really needs to be some other way to obtain Caltrops (or AP) for those of us who have no desire to pvp.

It's really bad design whenever a developer locks pve abilities behind pvp. I'm guessing it's been this way for a while so I doubt they'll change it anytime soon, but it's really dumb design.

The things people cry about honestly it take 60 minutes to grind pvp for caltrops on a Zerg surf. These forums are getting out of hand with the crybabies. it’s not a pve ability what so ever it is an ability used primarily to slow a heard of horses down trying to enter a keep and what not. It’s just good for pve aoe damage as well.

I never normally reply to nerf and whinge threads but it’s starting to get annoying.

Don't really see an issue here. As people have said, it's an exclusive PVP ability. Was probably designed that way. If they change it to be obtainable in PVE would they not also have to make all PVE exclusive abilities obtainable in PVP?

Personally I hate PVP. I tried it once but there were all these psychos on a power trip running around trying to kill me. What the hell is that about?

When you think about it, you could say that:

so and so skill is locked behind the figher's guild wall, or the mage's guld wall, or the world wall, or the DW wall, or the SnB wall, or the .... well, you get the idea.

I wanted the meteor ulti, and was rather frustrated that I had to hunt down a million gazillion mage guild books just to unlock it, so I get your frustration.

If you are not into pvp per se, but want Vigor or Caltrops, you can do things like repair walls, or, if enemies are trying to siege your keep, then set up a siege weapon (such as meatball weapon, or whatever it's called) on top of the keep walls and shoot it into the crowd below. Both can help you level up in pvp.

If your home campaign is Vivec (high population campaign), then something else you can try is going to a low pop campaign as a 'guest' and do some of the Cyrodiil quests as a way to get AP. You can also pick up the scouting mission from the board at your factions' base (it's repeatable) ... you just have to sneak sneak your way to the objective, once there you will be prompted to press 'E' to write your scout report. Then, you can throw yourself to the slaughterfish for a quick return to your faction base.

Long story short, it's never fun doing something you'd rather not be doing, whether it's searching for mage guild books, or leveling up your pvp skill line, or whatever ... but ... it's a lot of fun finally having that skill unlocked!

tizodd wrote: »

Been healing other players and repairing walls/doors and still only about 40% into rank 4 (I need rank 6 for Caltrops). This is frustrating and really turning me off to the game in general (just on principle that I'm forced to pvp to get a powerful pve ability).

I often see one or two players kill entire groups of players and it makes me wonder if devs make decisions like these so hardcore pvp'ers have some easy targets every now and then to stroke their egos and keep them playing. Judging by the lopsidedness of many of the "battles", I can't be the only person in Cyrodil just to get an ability. As soon as I hit rank 6 I'll be out of Cyrodil never to return.

The argument that pvp'ers have to do pve content to get stuff really has no legs to stand on. ESO is an Elder Scrolls game. Elder Scrolls games are pve. With ESO being an mmo, they decided to tack on a pvp portion of the game to capitalize on that genre/playerbase. But if we're all honest with ourselves and not just trying to win an argument...we all know ESO is first and foremost a pve game. The same way something like Battlefront is a pvp game with tacked on pve.

I think I’m the biggest Elder Scrolls fanboy here was my very first game Arena was my sole reason to get an Xbox Morrowind and was my first MMORPG ESO I have played this series since I was 6. The statement that this game should be is crazy to put it nicely. MMORPGs need PvP now and days.

Yes some skills from PvP work great in PvE but if you want them you have to do the content. You don’t get Undaunted by never hitting a dungeon, you can’t get mage guild without book, Fighters Guild without undead and Daedric enemies and Dark Brotherhood without killing. If you want the power or passive from a skill line do the work.

If you want trial gear but don’t want to do trails you are [snip] out of luck. Same with everything else.

[Edited to remove profanity]

Boo hoo OP. You know how upset you pve’rs would be if us PVPers asked to get all PVE abilities and gear without actually doing PVE? If you want the reward enough, then you’ll do whatever it takes to get it.

#checkm8
/endthread

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

Do you pvpers really want people, who don't even want to be in cyrodil, to create more lag and make your ques longer?

Yes! Please, come out to Cyrodiil!

I'm honestly saying that, not just in the "ooh yeah, come out and I'll kill you for easy AP" sort of way. Really, I do want new players and PVE players coming out to Cyrodiil and experiencing PVP. New blood, even new blood that swears they are only in Cyrodiil for vigor and caltrops, is a healthy thing for PVP in this game (and you'd better believe ZOS knows that).

The Midyear Mayhem event brought an influx of players who are normally PVE-only and I had some of the best times on the server during that event. From running with new players, helping people understand how PVP works, getting people in our group who liked the experience enough to join our PVP guild and having fun with those who liked it well enough but only joined for the event, the whole thing was a blast from this PVPer perspective.

Sure, I could complain about the queues. "Oh, noes! More players are coming to Cyrodiil!" Haha, no, more players in Cyrodiil is a good thing, even if those players are just there to heal and zerg. I'm happy to see you and happy to offer advice for how to make your Cyrodiil experience less disappointing.

Finally, once upon a time, I was one of those people who really didn't even want to be in Cyrodiil. Forget vigor and caltrops, I was going to get my FISH and leave. Darn you ZOS for putting the only ocean hole right outside AD's gate! A little while later I needed my skyhards, and then I would leave, I mean it this time. And then I started pugging it, then following the organized raids, and now I'm in a regular PVP guild. If it were not for ZOS making us go into Cyrodiil for content like fishing achievements, dolmens, skyshards, and now players chasing meta skills needing AP, I would never have become the PVPer I am today.

PVE tears taste ever so salty

Not really behind PvP when you consider 90% of cyrodil these days is pve and you can earn ap

It's called sieging empty keeps

Just time your sessions n choice of campaign carefully