Undaunted is a far more obnoxious grind for the PvP player. Your complaints may have made sense a couple of years ago. You can easily max out the Alliance War skill lines in a week.

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Why are certain gear sets locked behind a PvE wall? Why is undaunted mettle behind a PvE wall?

Agree with you. That's why i always said you guys should have your PvP sets drop from Cyrodil dungeons, or craftable sets crafted in cyrodil only and only have impen gear taken from cyrodil, no impen craftable outside cyrodil, so if you want to farm your lottable gear in dungeons, you would ave to PvP for it and get annoyed by other player's faction... so then you won't be whining about having to do PvE in a safe enviroment or chances to get ganked as you farm certain bosses Or being ganked trying to get a set crafted as another cations that day decided to farm the forge of the most kick ass set in PvP

You know those people who PvP for fun, they are not a problem. But what about those who don't like PvP? You gotta be able to force them somehow. A good skill is perfect for this.

On a more serious note, I'm with those who don't think you are entitled to everything for free. If it's a PvP skill, it's a PvP skill.

SanTii.92 wrote: »

As an incetive for you to try pvp.

This. It's actually good design, so that you get a taste of something you never played before and are anxious to try.

Locked is a bit of a strong word. Throw lfg into the chat or ask some guildies to form a group. You'll get vigor and caltrops in an evening or two.

Until you get vigor you will need to group up with someone who throws heals. In a decent group that supports each other you'll die a lot less and earn AP rapidly. You might even start to have fun.

As I explain the last time this thread showed up, Caltrops is a skill you earn in PVP because PVP is literally the ONLY place in the game where Caltrops makes sense as a skill.

But its the best Stamina dot since Endless Hail! Why should I have to do content I hate?

Caltrops are an anti-cavalry measure. One of the morphs is specifically anti-cavalry. Where's the only place in the game where you face mounted enemies and need a skill designed to deal with them? Oh, right. Cyrodiil. Caltrops are invaluable for dismounting players on scroll runs, chases, or slowing players in keeps so they have to stand under oils and siege fire. Caltrops are extremely important in PVP, but in PVE they are just another stamina-based ground DOT. (When you face mounted enemies in PVE, feel free to talk about changing where you acquire caltrops.) Right now, Caltrops is only vital for PVE because of a meta choice - its functionally far more important in Cyrodiil against players.

The same is true for Vigor, btw. For every other piece of PVE content except for Maelstrom Arena, stamina DPS can expect to get heals from a healer. Where can they not expect to get heals from a healer? In PVP - so having a stamina self-heal is far more important. Right now, Vigor is only important in PVE because of the meta that says DPS need to have self-heals (or, admittedly, self-preservation against bad PUGs), but having stamina self- heals is far more important in Cyrodiil where stamina players need to be able to fight and PVP with access to healing far away from any healers.

If you are struggling with PVPing long enough to get your Caltrops and Vigor, I:
A. Recommend that you read Joy_Division's Guide to the Midyear Mayhem event. Its a great guide for people new to PVP and people who just want the festival achievements or in this case, Caltrops. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/360956/joy-s-advice-for-midyear-mayhem-event/p1
B. Recommend that if magicka, you follow a large group of players and heal them. Recommend that if stamina, you follow a large group of players with a bow and try to kill the enemy. Either way, try to stay safe and get AP when the large group captures keeps and resources. How much AP you make will honestly depend on how good you are at staying with that group, how good that group is, and if your mount is fast enough to get you to the fights in time to leech AP.

Either way, ZOS is absolutely delighted to see that stamina players HAVE to PVP in order to get skills, because that means players have to experience ALL the game content (and magicka players have to get purge and warhorn). That's like a dream come true for ZOS. They aren't going to change that. That chasing the meta developed by players forces players to do content they hate but they'll do it anyway in order to get the skills the meta says they need in order to be competitive? ZOS loves it! They couldn't have designed it better if they'd tried!

Good luck with PVP! It may not be your cup of tea, but hey, I started off timidly going for skyshards and fishing in Cyrodiil and now I PVP regularly.

Why are some items locked behind a pve wall, some behind a pvp wall, some behind exp walls. Why do I have to use 2 one handed weapons to use duel wield skills... Why can't I start out at level 50 3600 cp with all my skills fully leveled and get any weapon/armor set on demand?

Its just not fair.

todd.curtis_ESO wrote: »

I'm sure someone will point out the fact that one of the morphs is for use against mounted characters, but it's still largely a pve ability. There really needs to be some other way to obtain Caltrops (or AP) for those of us who have no desire to pvp.

While I generally agree with you, that it's uneasy to obtain Vigor or Caltrops, it's also not hard to level in Cyrodiil with large groups and staing back as an aoe healer.
You can easily create such magicka healer with resto staff even on stamina based characters, put transmutation gears with lich or warlock and spam aoe from behind. Served me for several toons so far and I wasn't dying first. Experience should coming fast .

todd.curtis_ESO wrote: »

The argument that pvp'ers have to do pve content to get stuff really has no legs to stand on. ESO is an Elder Scrolls game. Elder Scrolls games are pve. With ESO being an mmo, they decided to tack on a pvp portion of the game to capitalize on that genre/playerbase. But if we're all honest with ourselves and not just trying to win an argument...we all know ESO is first and foremost a pve game. The same way something like Battlefront is a pvp game with tacked on pve.

That the solo ES games are PvE is irrelevant, this is an MMORPG, a genre that has always had PvP because that is part of a realistic persistent world (far more so than the crap like instanced PvE that got added for nabcakes who shouldn't even be playing MMORPGs), you are just being hypocritical.

todd.curtis_ESO wrote: »

just on principle that I'm forced to pvp to get a powerful pve ability

As you've been told multiple times it is a PvP ability that is useful in PvE (that it is in the alliance war skills tree should have been a clue)

Fine as is. Was harder a while back before they changed the leveling. Don’t be scared. If I can PVP, anyone can. Lmao

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Why are the undaunted passives locked behind a PvE wall??

Why ZOS whyyyyyyy :'(

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

Do you pvpers really want people, who don't even want to be in cyrodil, to create more lag and make your ques longer?

PVEers who PVP solely because they copy-paste builds from popular streamers/YouTubers that include Alliance skills are generally free AP, so...

If you hate PVPing, maybe don't chase PVP skills just 'cause some streamer said you should? Maybe try to create a build that doesn't use caltrops/vigor ? *shrug*

ereboz wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

todd.curtis_ESO wrote: »

It's really bad design whenever a developer locks pve abilities behind pvp. I'm guessing it's been this way for a while so I doubt they'll change it anytime soon, but it's really dumb design.

It's not a PVE ability. It's a PVP ability.

Wrong, if your stupid enough to stand in caltrops you deserve to die. NPCs don't move

Its called a deterrent you plebian.