best support/healer class for small scale 4ish v X pvp

Labs · October 2017

Hello all!

I was curious if there was a class that out did the others when it came to being a support/healer for small scale pvp?

I just got back into the game a couple weeks ago after being away for over 2 years. Been jumping from class to class trying to pick a role/playstyle id like to move forward with. After making a bunch of classes, what i've narrowed it down to, is that I'd like to play a support/healer role for the 4 man group we will be having for pvp. Any suggestions/help in this area would be awesome.

Was thinking Nightblade or Templar.

VaranisArano · October 2017

If you want pure healer, or even a healer with some DPS, I'd look towards templars or wardens.
If you want a tanky healer, I'd look at Templars, Wardens, or MagDK.
If you want a healer who also does plenty of DPS, any class will work, but you'll probably find that you have to balance the healing and DPS.

Vilestride · October 2017

Warden or Templar are most suited to what you specified. Templar also just got some nice buffs from the patch to.

Metemsycosis · October 2017

I am partial to magicka nb.

Transmutation plus refreshing path, mutagen, healing ult. We have sap essence too. Don't underestimate nb crowd control. Cripple is great for group play. You can use it to isolate targets from the pack, making them vulnerable to coordinated bursts.

You can use shade and fear to keep maim active. Or wizard's riposte.

since healers tend to be targets as a magicka nb you can avoid a lot of aggression using cloak.

Lexxypwns · October 2017

Pure healer: Magplar

Support in a group with self sufficient heals: Mageblade

wheem_ESO · October 2017

Magicka Templar set up for perma-blocking. Warden can be good too, but I think Templar cleanses make them clearly superior.

soll · October 2017

For me it is still templar for sure. Tried warden healer, didn't like it, because of lack of burst heal (beside forest spam builds).
Templar healers still can be very tanky even after all the nerfs.

Labs · October 2017

Is the Templar healing/tankiness only in CP pvp or is it possible non CP as well?

wheem_ESO · October 2017

Labs wrote: »

Is the Templar healing/tankiness only in CP pvp or is it possible non CP as well?

It's possible in both, though perma-blocking takes a bit more effort in no-CP.

soll wrote: »

For me it is still templar for sure. Tried warden healer, didn't like it, because of lack of burst heal (beside forest spam builds).
Templar healers still can be very tanky even after all the nerfs.

Spamming Living Trellis and/or Budding Seeds can give you a good bit of burst healing, and they're both quite magicka efficient as well. Budding Seeds being an AOE heal is great, but it's also a bit slower than Breath of Life spam, since you have to cast twice to trigger it right away (and people may run/dodge roll out of it sometimes).

The main way Templar Healers are superior to Wardens, is in their ability to cleanse debuffs and DOTs. ZOS finally fixed the Blue Betty's cleanse component, but that only works on yourself, and only for one negative effect at a time. Extended Ritual is a really great ability, and is a game changer against some builds/teams.

Trashs1 · October 2017

in our team do sorcs and magbaldes the cleanse

templar are dps+ heal

Thraben · October 2017

I would strongly suggest a stam warden (with a two hander)

The only class that can do cleanse and rapid at the same time if s/he is healing enough. Quite tough to play however, since the frequent use of the heal gap closer is required (instead of spamming BoL).

exeeter702 · October 2017

Magnb when played right will outlcass most Templar and warden players.

At the highest level, the difference between templar and magnb is difficult to notice, all things considered.

Hutch679 · October 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Pure healer: Magplar

Support in a group with self sufficient heals: Mageblade

Idk Lex, I've had a few BG games with over 1.2 million healing and +700k damage on my warden

Edit: I don't play much open world, but in small groups warden heals are pretty strong. I think a lot of people over look the strength of nature's embrace, living trellis, and rapid regen all ticking at the same time.

Ulfgarde · October 2017

Mag Warden is OP for supporting small-scale group. You can give Major Resolve and Ward, you can place defile flowers and can give shrooms for small regen buffs for your group. Not to mention you still have strong heals and high ultimate return with Shimmering Shield. Don't even get me started on trees.

The main problem with Warden is how their burst heal is difficult to manage without experience. Templar's 180 degree BoL greatly outmatches it.

Templar is great for pure healing. Cleanse is also extremely important for Templars, making them apex tanks. Extended Ritual is absolutely essential for tanking. Repentance makes them even more tanky considering the high stamina return.

Overall, both are strong options for group healing, but I would suggest Warden purely because of how much group support they offer. Defile AOE is just too strong. Templar is for if want to tank like a madman and still offer potent heals.

I wouldn't suggest magNB simply because they're nowhere near as strong as those two.

grannas211 · October 2017

Templar gets my vote because as mentioned what makes them the best healing class is extended ritual.

Lexxypwns · October 2017

Hutch679 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Pure healer: Magplar

Support in a group with self sufficient heals: Mageblade

Idk Lex, I've had a few BG games with over 1.2 million healing and +700k damage on my warden

Edit: I don't play much open world, but in small groups warden heals are pretty strong. I think a lot of people over look the strength of nature's embrace, living trellis, and rapid regen all ticking at the same time.

Im usually in the 800/600 range unless I'm running with my regular crew then they both go down. But that's with me proc'ing trans and riposte as well

The reason I think mageblade makes the best secondary support spec is because you don't have to compromise your ability to be self sufficient and can proc group synergy sets so easily. If a magplar or warden runs trans/riposte they can't reliably get kills on good players.

I've moved on to the perfectly balanced stamden though. It's so balanced I only got 800k healing on a stam build last match -.-

IlCanis_LupuslI · October 2017

Warden cancer healer in heavy seducer and some other support set maby transmutation and earthgore

Sacredx · October 2017

for smallscale you don't need a pure healer/support class. you need a hybrid. something like stam sorc or stam/mag warden do a good job. other classes also viable with the right builds.

gabriebe · October 2017

Templars, Wardens.

I haven't personnally played it, but mag sorcs can make decent healers. The Matriarch burst heal is technically higher than BoL. The problem is recasting that pet when it dies.

ToRelax · October 2017

gabriebe wrote: »

Templars, Wardens.

I haven't personnally played it, but mag sorcs can make decent healers. The Matriarch burst heal is technically higher than BoL. The problem is recasting that pet when it dies.

Sorcs got a lot of skills with great group support, but not so much in terms of healing except for the Twilight. If playing Sorc I'd recommend just sticking to Healing Ward unless you like playing a pet build, don't need to sacrifice offensive capabilities to make the most out of things like Mines, Encase or Ball of Lightning.
Wouldn't recommend it for an actual healing/support oriented build, it's just something an experienced player can do with their standard skills when needed. A Sorc healer also wouldn't be as tanky as a Templar/Warden one, you'd avoid damage like a NB if possible but it's tough to actually lose focus against someone who knows what they're doing, especially when you're in trouble.

NB should do best to actually provide some heals and deal damage at the same time, Templar when you actually intend to focus on keeping your group alive often. With Warden I don't have enough experience I think.

exeeter702 · October 2017

Ulfgarde wrote: »

I wouldn't suggest magNB simply because they're nowhere near as strong as those two.

to the op, please remember to ignore comments like this.

ToRelax wrote: »

gabriebe wrote: »

Templars, Wardens.

I haven't personnally played it, but mag sorcs can make decent healers. The Matriarch burst heal is technically higher than BoL. The problem is recasting that pet when it dies.

NB should do best to actually provide some heals and deal damage at the same time, Templar when you actually intend to focus on keeping your group alive often. With Warden I don't have enough experience I think.

Based on shear math alone, NB can objectively match the HPS throughput of a templar in pvp. And no, bol and cleanse are not the determining factors. In small scale nb healing will rival a templar through and through.

Soris · October 2017

Templar healer is fun and more sturdy imo. And if you like the paladin archetype it suits well there. Rather than a druid or bloodmage..

ToRelax · October 2017

exeeter702 wrote: »

Ulfgarde wrote: »

I wouldn't suggest magNB simply because they're nowhere near as strong as those two.

to the op, please remember to ignore comments like this.

ToRelax wrote: »

gabriebe wrote: »

Templars, Wardens.

I haven't personnally played it, but mag sorcs can make decent healers. The Matriarch burst heal is technically higher than BoL. The problem is recasting that pet when it dies.

NB should do best to actually provide some heals and deal damage at the same time, Templar when you actually intend to focus on keeping your group alive often. With Warden I don't have enough experience I think.

Based on shear math alone, NB can objectively match the HPS throughput of a templar in pvp. And no, bol and cleanse are not the determining factors. In small scale nb healing will rival a templar through and through.

It's not about HPS, it's about keeping your group members alive. HoTs are great, but an amount of healing done by a HoT is worth much less than that same amount by a burst heal. And yes, those two skills are crucial, BoL because it's a better burst heal than a NB can offer (excluding ultimates) and Cleanse because it's both a Purge and heal that can be activated by allies without spending resources, very valuable in small scale. Also don't forget shards.

NyassaV · October 2017

Warden or Magic Nightblade

exeeter702 · October 2017

ToRelax wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Ulfgarde wrote: »

I wouldn't suggest magNB simply because they're nowhere near as strong as those two.

to the op, please remember to ignore comments like this.

ToRelax wrote: »

gabriebe wrote: »

Templars, Wardens.

I haven't personnally played it, but mag sorcs can make decent healers. The Matriarch burst heal is technically higher than BoL. The problem is recasting that pet when it dies.

NB should do best to actually provide some heals and deal damage at the same time, Templar when you actually intend to focus on keeping your group alive often. With Warden I don't have enough experience I think.

Based on shear math alone, NB can objectively match the HPS throughput of a templar in pvp. And no, bol and cleanse are not the determining factors. In small scale nb healing will rival a templar through and through.

It's not about HPS, it's about keeping your group members alive. HoTs are great, but an amount of healing done by a HoT is worth much less than that same amount by a burst heal. And yes, those two skills are crucial, BoL because it's a better burst heal than a NB can offer (excluding ultimates) and Cleanse because it's both a Purge and heal that can be activated by allies without spending resources, very valuable in small scale. Also don't forget shards.

Sorry but no. I know very intimately what it is about. If you think bol and ritual are the determining aspects to which a templar can protect his/her group vs the shear potency of a properly played magnb hot application for pvp than there is nothing i can say to help you understand.

CatchMeTrolling · October 2017

As a Templar I'm going to say Warden, there's so much you can offer a group and you can completely lock down an area. I'll be maining magplar and magden in the coming day's, I will say purge is the one thing that stands out on a Templar over a Warden.

Lexxypwns · October 2017

ToRelax wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Ulfgarde wrote: »

I wouldn't suggest magNB simply because they're nowhere near as strong as those two.

to the op, please remember to ignore comments like this.

ToRelax wrote: »

gabriebe wrote: »

Templars, Wardens.

I haven't personnally played it, but mag sorcs can make decent healers. The Matriarch burst heal is technically higher than BoL. The problem is recasting that pet when it dies.

NB should do best to actually provide some heals and deal damage at the same time, Templar when you actually intend to focus on keeping your group alive often. With Warden I don't have enough experience I think.

Based on shear math alone, NB can objectively match the HPS throughput of a templar in pvp. And no, bol and cleanse are not the determining factors. In small scale nb healing will rival a templar through and through.

It's not about HPS, it's about keeping your group members alive. HoTs are great, but an amount of healing done by a HoT is worth much less than that same amount by a burst heal. And yes, those two skills are crucial, BoL because it's a better burst heal than a NB can offer (excluding ultimates) and Cleanse because it's both a Purge and heal that can be activated by allies without spending resources, very valuable in small scale. Also don't forget shards.

In a small group everyone has to be responsible for keeping themselves alive. Taking that into account, HoTs have the same value as a burst heal because players will provide their own burst heal or shield to stay alive.

You have to spec into a lot of healing to outheal a mageblade on a magplar and then you cannot hope to deliver the dangerous burst damage he can.

exeeter702 · October 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Ulfgarde wrote: »

I wouldn't suggest magNB simply because they're nowhere near as strong as those two.

to the op, please remember to ignore comments like this.

ToRelax wrote: »

gabriebe wrote: »

Templars, Wardens.

I haven't personnally played it, but mag sorcs can make decent healers. The Matriarch burst heal is technically higher than BoL. The problem is recasting that pet when it dies.

NB should do best to actually provide some heals and deal damage at the same time, Templar when you actually intend to focus on keeping your group alive often. With Warden I don't have enough experience I think.

Based on shear math alone, NB can objectively match the HPS throughput of a templar in pvp. And no, bol and cleanse are not the determining factors. In small scale nb healing will rival a templar through and through.

It's not about HPS, it's about keeping your group members alive. HoTs are great, but an amount of healing done by a HoT is worth much less than that same amount by a burst heal. And yes, those two skills are crucial, BoL because it's a better burst heal than a NB can offer (excluding ultimates) and Cleanse because it's both a Purge and heal that can be activated by allies without spending resources, very valuable in small scale. Also don't forget shards.

In a small group everyone has to be responsible for keeping themselves alive. Taking that into account, HoTs have the same value as a burst heal because players will provide their own burst heal or shield to stay alive.

You have to spec into a lot of healing to outheal a mageblade on a magplar and then you cannot hope to deliver the dangerous burst damage he can.

This

Labs · October 2017

I appreciate ALL the feedback everyone has given.

Yall are making it very hard to pick.

I do like the idea of a magblade, just no clue how to build one properly hah.

ToRelax · October 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Ulfgarde wrote: »

I wouldn't suggest magNB simply because they're nowhere near as strong as those two.

to the op, please remember to ignore comments like this.

ToRelax wrote: »

gabriebe wrote: »

Templars, Wardens.

I haven't personnally played it, but mag sorcs can make decent healers. The Matriarch burst heal is technically higher than BoL. The problem is recasting that pet when it dies.

NB should do best to actually provide some heals and deal damage at the same time, Templar when you actually intend to focus on keeping your group alive often. With Warden I don't have enough experience I think.

Based on shear math alone, NB can objectively match the HPS throughput of a templar in pvp. And no, bol and cleanse are not the determining factors. In small scale nb healing will rival a templar through and through.

It's not about HPS, it's about keeping your group members alive. HoTs are great, but an amount of healing done by a HoT is worth much less than that same amount by a burst heal. And yes, those two skills are crucial, BoL because it's a better burst heal than a NB can offer (excluding ultimates) and Cleanse because it's both a Purge and heal that can be activated by allies without spending resources, very valuable in small scale. Also don't forget shards.

In a small group everyone has to be responsible for keeping themselves alive. Taking that into account, HoTs have the same value as a burst heal because players will provide their own burst heal or shield to stay alive.

You have to spec into a lot of healing to outheal a mageblade on a magplar and then you cannot hope to deliver the dangerous burst damage he can.

If a group member is in trouble, the best thing you can do is using a strong defensive skill on them that releases all power at once - a burst heal. Given a) how likely it is that someone else, including the target, may be using Healing Ward already, making it less useful for that situation and b) that you don't get it's full benefit from spamming it, BoL is much better to have acess to on a healer.
The Cleanse synergy is great because other players can use it independently and judge themselves when to do so, which brings down reaction times and allows the Templar to cast another spell while that player uses the synergy.

You do actually bring up an important point: In a small group, players must be able to self sustain. Which is part of why HoTs aren't as crucial as burst heals on a healer. They're not bad by any means, they just don't substitute burst heals. Players who will gain a greater benefit from running HoTs will do so already. You can add your own where they stack, but what's actually needed is keeping the others alive through a crisis. HoTs help with that, burst heals are the main tool.

As I said in my original post, NB isn't bad at healing and dealing damage both, that's where it shines. But comparing the potential of a NB to keep group members alive in a crisis to that of a Templar is ridiculous.

exeeter702 · October 2017

ToRelax wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Ulfgarde wrote: »

I wouldn't suggest magNB simply because they're nowhere near as strong as those two.

to the op, please remember to ignore comments like this.

ToRelax wrote: »

gabriebe wrote: »

Templars, Wardens.

I haven't personnally played it, but mag sorcs can make decent healers. The Matriarch burst heal is technically higher than BoL. The problem is recasting that pet when it dies.

NB should do best to actually provide some heals and deal damage at the same time, Templar when you actually intend to focus on keeping your group alive often. With Warden I don't have enough experience I think.

Based on shear math alone, NB can objectively match the HPS throughput of a templar in pvp. And no, bol and cleanse are not the determining factors. In small scale nb healing will rival a templar through and through.

It's not about HPS, it's about keeping your group members alive. HoTs are great, but an amount of healing done by a HoT is worth much less than that same amount by a burst heal. And yes, those two skills are crucial, BoL because it's a better burst heal than a NB can offer (excluding ultimates) and Cleanse because it's both a Purge and heal that can be activated by allies without spending resources, very valuable in small scale. Also don't forget shards.

In a small group everyone has to be responsible for keeping themselves alive. Taking that into account, HoTs have the same value as a burst heal because players will provide their own burst heal or shield to stay alive.

You have to spec into a lot of healing to outheal a mageblade on a magplar and then you cannot hope to deliver the dangerous burst damage he can.

You do actually bring up an important point: In a small group, players must be able to self sustain. Which is part of why HoTs aren't as crucial as burst heals on a healer. They're not bad by any means, they just don't substitute burst heals. Players who will gain a greater benefit from running HoTs will do so already. You can add your own where they stack, but what's actually needed is keeping the others alive through a crisis. HoTs help with that, burst heals are the main tool.

This would be a reasonable argument if talking about templar hots. I believe you are grossly undervauling or not fully aware of the strength of NB hots.