Skoomah wrote: »

Played some BGs last night and was incredibly overwhelmed by unkillable tanks. Encountered numerous unkillable tanks and many matches that simply timed out. The quality of play has really plummeted. BGs were a great way to escape cancerous Vivec. Now not anymore.

Sounds about right and exactly what the BG sub thread is littered with advising...not sure how ZOS could think this is a viable solution to BG population AT ALL. Sigh...

Well now it's the same as cyrodil

RIP bgs... there no fun anymore

It was an odd change. Felt like a boardroom decision.

"CP is more popular in PvP, so let's make BG CP enabled and more will come, after all on launch people moaned about BG being non-CP"

There is logic to that. However it doesn't account for


1. BG was fast paced refreshing break from Cyrodiil action
2. Lower CP people will go off BG fast now as not competitive
3. Tanks R Us gunna land and troll games
4. Any one that wants to play BG is already playing,i.e. The moaners about it being non-CP have already adapted.

All of this was said before the change.

Now call me a fan boy, but i DO trust ZOS to listen. I'm sure they will review stats on number of players over the next month, and if they are less they will revert. If they go up they will be justified in the change

@ZOS_GinaBruno said it was a test / trial so let's let it test out.

Skoomah wrote: »

ZOS should just make a few options, level 1-49, level 50 no CP, level 50 with CP.

This is what a number of us said.

Apparently they feel that won't give enough population to get people playing. My personal feelings are they should untie it from the Morrowind expansion and make it base game as well.

Also I think the people who spent years screaming for balanced arenas are not even playing any more or realised that isn't what they actually wanted. What they really meant was "arenas without zergs" was "I want to always win everything without hassle".

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

If adding CP to BGs is a test currently...all those interested in fighting this should simply not play BGs since it seems ZOS only listens to numerical data and not the ppl actually playing the game...

Mostly they listen to what the shroom goblin tells them to do.

Turelus wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

ZOS should just make a few options, level 1-49, level 50 no CP, level 50 with CP.

This is what a number of us said.

Apparently they feel that won't give enough population to get people playing. My personal feelings are they should untie it from the Morrowind expansion and make it base game as well.

Also I think the people who spent years screaming for balanced arenas are not even playing any more or realised that isn't what they actually wanted. What they really meant was "arenas without zergs" was "I want to always win everything without hassle".

That's a bit harsh and I'm not sure how much that reflects reality. I can easily flip that around and say that the reason why some experienced and vocal PvPers are not playing BGs is because they're bored of easily beating down pugs. That they find premade 4 vs Zerg in Cyrodiil to be more of a challenge than going premade 4 vs 4 pugs in BGs. Unless there's statistics to back either argument up it's a bit hollow.

Ultimately everyone likes to win, sure, but my experience of MOBAs is that players will most frequently enjoy a closely run game even if they lose. And they hate nothing more than joining a game where they have 0 hope of winning because they are either facing a team of massively better players or an organised premade vs their pug group.

To give players the best experience possible most MOBA games have very elaborate MMR systems which sit at the heart of it all. I don't expect ZOS to spend much time developing a highly complicated MMR system, since it's an MMO and has so much more than a MOBA, that's an unrealistic expectation. But ESO lacks even a very basic one.

And things like:
- Solo or duo players ending up against full-near premade
- Lvl 10-15 players in your group, that can't even have a secondary weapon yet (I mean lol, even Cyro has an <50 campaign),
- Games starting without full teams (3v4v4) and going on like this for near full duration,
- Severe BG specific bugs (from not being able to see teammates to infinite loading screens)

...these are daily occurrences playing BGs. These are basic problems that drive people away. And that's all before we even talk about the paywall.

Veg wrote: »

It just goes to show what classes excel at killing and what classes don't. Champion points just takes this ^10. Take the mDK for example, 0 movement mechanics and relies on mid range damage over a long time for kills.

Now look at the Stamplar. Snare immunity to run around and uses dawnbreaker with jabs for AoE burst damage strong enough to kill up to 6 people in under 2 seconds if stunned.

So no *** the mDK is going to build for tanking when they have to compete with that kind of game play. Without champion points its the same mechanics just dialed down to the point where that burst damage and tanking is impossible. Not to say that each class has equal kill mechanics here, just that everything is less extreme.

Heres what tanking becomes with champion points: (not even remotely possible without them)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKw1nN51PSs

Now in bg's I can only have 8 people attack me so obviously some tanks just wont die in bg's anymore. On another note bg's are now fun for me because I can force to fight me while being a super tank.

I wonder if there is a build video/info on these tanks

Veg wrote: »

It just goes to show what classes excel at killing and what classes don't. Champion points just takes this ^10. Take the mDK for example, 0 movement mechanics and relies on mid range damage over a long time for kills.

Now look at the Stamplar. Snare immunity to run around and uses dawnbreaker with jabs for AoE burst damage strong enough to kill up to 6 people in under 2 seconds if stunned.

So no *** the mDK is going to build for tanking when they have to compete with that kind of game play. Without champion points its the same mechanics just dialed down to the point where that burst damage and tanking is impossible. Not to say that each class has equal kill mechanics here, just that everything is less extreme.

Heres what tanking becomes with champion points: (not even remotely possible without them)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKw1nN51PSs

Now in bg's I can only have 8 people attack me so obviously some tanks just wont die in bg's anymore. On another note bg's are now fun for me because I can force to fight me while being a super tank.

Yeah but is the new CTR fun? I think on Monday I was bashing you for two minutes before I finally missed one and you were able to pick up the flag. I was bored out of my mind and I can’t imagine that you weren’t either.

Veg wrote: »

I've played with my high damage build in the recent patches but mDK's just aren't made for killing other players like the other classes are so its not fun for long.

Mag DK's aren't made for killing? ...What? A properly built and played Magicka DK should be getting #1 (or at least be very competitive for #1) total damage done in most Battleground matches, while simultaneously being extremely durable, thanks to perma-blocking. Not having an execute is certainly a bummer (as primarily a Magicka Warden, I feel your pain), but the pressure damage is oustanding. In fact, it's so high that it oftentimes feels like burst damage that just doesn't end.

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

I've played with my high damage build in the recent patches but mDK's just aren't made for killing other players like the other classes are so its not fun for long.

Mag DK's aren't made for killing? ...What? A properly built and played Magicka DK should be getting #1 (or at least be very competitive for #1) total damage done in most Battleground matches, while simultaneously being extremely durable, thanks to perma-blocking. Not having an execute is certainly a bummer (as primarily a Magicka Warden, I feel your pain), but the pressure damage is oustanding. In fact, it's so high that it oftentimes feels like burst damage that just doesn't end.

It's not about the total damage it's about the burst damage. The best way to kill people is to move around very quickly and do all your damage in less than 2 seconds while stunning them. You dont see mDK's slaughtering people like a stam build. You see them holding block and killing people that decide not to remove their snares and not avoid the mDK's damage. You also see mDK's die as more people show up and they cant run away.

Also, you cant perma block and have good damage. It just doesnt work. I can barely perma block with my min/max super tank so forget tanking 10 people and actually killing anything. The fact is that most of our damage is easy to mitigate/remove.

This surprises no one.

My money's on an incoming nerf to block or SnB or both, rather than anything useful being done with Champion Points or gear sets.

Skoomah wrote: »

Played some BGs last night and was incredibly overwhelmed by unkillable tanks. Encountered numerous unkillable tanks and many matches that simply timed out. The quality of play has really plummeted. BGs were a great way to escape cancerous Vivec. Now not anymore.

So if this is the meta then why are people not playing anti tank classes / specs / Werewolf?

One unblockable CC plus burst means dead mega tank and consdering Werewolfs excel at this I'm surprised BGs aren't littered with them. AoE heal debuff / dot, AoE fear and then heavy burst on the feared target = dead.

The only real problem with this is putting solo queuers up against full premades but then it's an organisational issue not a game mechanics one.

I've run a few BGs in the new CP enabled battle grounds on my Werewolf and have been having a great deal of fun snacking on all the tank builds.

Valencer wrote: »

I'd rather play as a tank and versus tanks than play in an environment that's just designed to make you die as fast as possible. That's what the CP vs no-CP decision really comes down to for me nowadays so CP PvP all the way. Hope they don't revert this change.

Not sure how the no-CP environment makes you die as fast as possible. Everyone has lower damage which means even inefficient builds (like medium/light builds that neglect impen) can survive longer and mistakes are not punished as hard. If you're built wrong in CP, or you don't have enough CPs, you're meat in a couple of seconds.

You're seeing it solely from a Tank's perspective and CPs of course increase you survivability vs No-CP. But for the average player that's not built to tank, I'd be surprised if its not the opposite.

And in any case, dying fast is not really a major problem in BGs. It can't be. You spawn in 0-20" and are immediately back into action with no horse simulator. If you can't die though, that can be a problem for some game modes.