The truth about sap tanks

Kuramas9tails · October 2017

Can someone explain to me the reason behind sap tanks. I have a mage blade dps and when I think about tanking end game content with that I can't see it. I heard about sap tanks from time to time in the past 2 years but never seen one in action. The passives don't satisfy me as opposed to a DK tank which I have.

Is this build just there for fun or can it be a legit end game content, main tank build? I love my mage blade and would try this if it's a good build for tanking but like I said, it doesn't satisfy me for being tank material. I'm missing something. Explain please.

Gnortranermara · October 2017

Good sap tanks serve as both healer and tank, allowing 3 DPS in raids. This allows for easy no death runs (since the healer doesn't die) and it allows weaker DPS to complete the more difficult dungeons (especially those with DPS check mechanics). One of the top 2 best tanks I've ever encountered is a sap tank in my guild. It's no good for 12 man trials, except maybe as the off tank, but for 4 man dungeons it works beautifully.

Mojmir · October 2017

They are the goto tank for PUGs, Ill tell you that.
Its the only way I'll PUG, I can carry the worst through anything outside trials

Liofa · October 2017

Any class can tank end-game content . Sap Tanking is not the way for it . Sap tanking is more like a ''I heal and do damage in case the PUG I joined sucks'' kind of gameplay . As end-game groups want tanks to run support sets , Sap Tanks are not suitable for the job and not wanted in such a group . Item sets that are used on a sap tank build is far from being supportive .

WillhelmBlack · October 2017

Basically it's something that was fun and viable 2 years ago. I have a sap tank, sort of, it's no where near as good as DK though.

Sixty5 · October 2017

I've got a buddy that runs a sap tank, and has for a while.

Basically it's really nice for blowing through pledges and stuff. It's the go to for doing content with alternative characters as well, since it gives support to weaker healers.

Dk is still preferable for harder content because chains plus the extra durability is nice.
Then again there some dungeons where veil of blades is really nice.

Asardes · October 2017

Sap tanks died out with Morrowind patch due to the multiple changes: block cost increase, removal of skill cost reduction from CP, reducing recovery from CP, and most importantly the change to the class skill that allowed them to have almost infinite sustain - now you have to choose between stamina and magicka and the return is much smaller; also it comes just from light and heavy attacks, not any attack as it used to be. They may be still viable from some dungeons, but there's no way you will tank trials with them anymore.

Flameheart · October 2017

Asardes wrote: »

Sap tanks died out with Morrowind patch due to the multiple changes: block cost increase, removal of skill cost reduction from CP, reducing recovery from CP, and most importantly the change to the class skill that allowed them to have almost infinite sustain - now you have to choose between stamina and magicka and the return is much smaller; also it comes just from light and heavy attacks, not any attack as it used to be. They may be still viable from some dungeons, but there's no way you will tank trials with them anymore.

This. Formerly they were powerful tanks for 4-man-stuff because they could add remarkable dps and healing to the group by spamming Sap Essence (and using Soul Tether in addition). They were really good tanks for stuff like vet DSA.

Now - after the sustain nerfs - I still use Sap Essence as a NB tank for 4-man-stuff, but it's more used as a situational taunt for initial aggro in trash groups and to pile up mobs. No way that you are able to spam that ability now. Even build as a full NB magicka DD spamming Sap Essence is an awful ressource drain now. You might use it maybe once or twice in a trash fight (for healing and maybe getting the Major Sorcery buff once or twice mostly) and concentrate more on correctly hitting your targets with flame wall and path and you use lightning HAs instead.

newtinmpls · October 2017

Um... what is a Sap tank

Azurya · October 2017

newtinmpls wrote: »

Um... what is a Sap tank

check it here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/258008/the-bloodletter-an-evolution-to-sap-tanking-nightblade-tank-build-morrowind-ready/p1

oh and it is great fun!

Bladerunner1 · October 2017

The sustain nerfs are pretty bad, it caused a magblade friend of mine to quit, but it doesn't stop a leader of one of my guilds from supporting 3 DPS on his NB Healer/Tank in Vet dungeon farming.

watsbeef2 · October 2017

Inclined to agree with the multiple statements "good for 4 man PUGs". Based on my fairly limited experience.

Kuramas9tails · October 2017

You all gave some good stuff.

Is it good for end game content like VMOL? Sounds like it's not. But it can be viable with 4 man trials depending on the group. I love my mageblade dps so I just wanted to look around at other builds for PVE.

_Salty_ · October 2017

I have been a sap tank since console launch and its a shred of what it once was. Just about every patch was a nerf of some kind for them. They can still be ok in 4 man but I'd never want to attempt vet trials in its current state.

With that being said, with clock work city nightblades have the only clas source of major evasion in the game which means they will be the only tanks that can use Tavas Blessing. With their tremendous ult gen they may become the go to ult/warhorn off tanks. Problem is they provide zero crowd control and they have zero group synergies compared to any other spec.

newtinmpls · October 2017

_Salty_ wrote: »

I have been a sap tank since console launch and its a shred of what it once was. Just about every patch was a nerf of some kind for them. They can still be ok in 4 man but I'd never want to attempt vet trials in its current state.

With that being said, with clock work city nightblades have the only clas source of major evasion in the game which means they will be the only tanks that can use Tavas Blessing. With their tremendous ult gen they may become the go to ult/warhorn off tanks. Problem is they provide zero crowd control and they have zero group synergies compared to any other spec.

Okay I'm clueless.

But eager - I have a few NB's that I haven't really been able to work with, and maybe this is the playstyle that I could get into.

that being said, as far as "crowd control" goes, is the web-thing from the undaunted line at all useful here?

aeowulf · October 2017

Sap tanks are no more. They were removed with morrowind sustain changes which were targetted mostly at NB, but affected templar as well. NB can still tank in the way that yes they can wear heavy armour and yes they can taunt, but the style of tanking known as 'sap tank' is gone. They now tank in a similar fashion to other classes without providing the same amount of group healing they previously did. This was their 'group utility' and until they are given some form of group utility back, I can't see NB being anything other than sub par tanks. I am waiting to see what is done with the skill tree's for NB in this regard.

Last night I queued in finder as DPS, selecting my dungeons as Vet daily pledge, normal DLC and one other Vet dungeon. 80 mins later i logged off not having found a group. The lack of tanks in this game really needs to be addressed by ZOS. Right now there are only two end game viable tank classes, DK and warden. Anyone picking a different class to tank wth at some point realises they will not be an end game trial tank on that class or that a different class can do it significantly better. In my case, I left the 'tank pool' and now my same main NB toon fills a spot in the already overpopulated DPS pool.

And/or ZOS should probably make tanking in general more attractive so more people play tanks.

bring on the skill tree rebalancing I say!

Kuramas9tails · October 2017

aeowulf wrote: »

Sap tanks are no more. They were removed with morrowind sustain changes which were targetted mostly at NB, but affected templar as well. NB can still tank in the way that yes they can wear heavy armour and yes they can taunt, but the style of tanking known as 'sap tank' is gone. They now tank in a similar fashion to other classes without providing the same amount of group healing they previously did. This was their 'group utility' and until they are given some form of group utility back, I can't see NB being anything other than sub par tanks. I am waiting to see what is done with the skill tree's for NB in this regard.

Last night I queued in finder as DPS, selecting my dungeons as Vet daily pledge, normal DLC and one other Vet dungeon. 80 mins later i logged off not having found a group. The lack of tanks in this game really needs to be addressed by ZOS. Right now there are only two end game viable tank classes, DK and warden. Anyone picking a different class to tank wth at some point realises they will not be an end game trial tank on that class or that a different class can do it significantly better. In my case, I left the 'tank pool' and now my same main NB toon fills a spot in the already overpopulated DPS pool.

And/or ZOS should probably make tanking in general more attractive so more people play tanks.

bring on the skill tree rebalancing I say!

I have a tank but I don't queue him up at all.

Maybe I will once the armor change crystals drop from queueing up for a random.

newtinmpls · November 2017

Thanks @Azurya for the link to Sap Tanks.

I get that it's nerfed, but I'm interested in a ... "non-ganky" NB build, and it gives me lovely ideas to play with.

It's such a pain to que as a DPS, mostly I just play with friends, but if I can figure a workable play-style/build, it will at least allow me to do some non-vets.

Qbiken · November 2017

I saw a saptank once in Cyrodil while getting the Cyrodil Dolmen achievement a few months ago. Felt like David Attenborough narrating the sight of a rare species when I saw that saptank xD

teladoy · November 2017

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Good sap tanks serve as both healer and tank, allowing 3 DPS in raids. This allows for easy no death runs (since the healer doesn't die) and it allows weaker DPS to complete the more difficult dungeons (especially those with DPS check mechanics). One of the top 2 best tanks I've ever encountered is a sap tank in my guild. It's no good for 12 man trials, except maybe as the off tank, but for 4 man dungeons it works beautifully.

Best thing I've ever read since ZOS said they will fix lag a little bit every patch.

I believe you play veteran dungeons of the most easy, because I would love to see what you say in Mazzatun or white tower.

ccfeeling · November 2017

Maybe there are too many outstanding nb in pvp
Nb nerfing never end in pve
NB can be a tank , even in vtrial
But u wont play nb tank once u try dk , the difference is huge
We gotta accept , more complain more nerf , thats what zos do
Coming nb healer? Check all supporting skills and passive , what a joke !
Diversity ? No

Etchos · November 2017

If you are looking to compete in end game then sap tank prob isn't for you.

If all you want to do is farm dungeons (with the exception of the vet DLC dungeons) then a sap tank is fine.

I have a DK tank and a sap tank. The DK tank is much better but is soul destroying to play to the point I haven't used him in months. My sap tank gets taken for a walk most days.

So if you are looking to run trials and conform to the meta, churn out the same rotation and go for scores. Don't sap tank.

If you want to actually enjoy yourself. then sap tank.

Brrrofski · November 2017

Sap tanks died when siphoning got nerfed.

Yes, you can still use it, but you give up all your damage at which point go DK or Warden tank and offer far superior group support.

It's sad, my sap tank was the most fun I've had in Pve by a lot

_Salty_ · November 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

Sap tanks died when siphoning got nerfed.

Yes, you can still use it, but you give up all your damage at which point go DK or Warden tank and offer far superior group support.

It's sad, my sap tank was the most fun I've had in Pve by a lot

I agree 100% by destroying a class defining skill they killed an entire build in the game. No other class can say that.

DeathHouseInc · November 2017

aeowulf wrote: »

Sap tanks are no more. They were removed with morrowind sustain changes which were targetted mostly at NB, but affected templar as well. NB can still tank in the way that yes they can wear heavy armour and yes they can taunt, but the style of tanking known as 'sap tank' is gone. They now tank in a similar fashion to other classes without providing the same amount of group healing they previously did. This was their 'group utility' and until they are given some form of group utility back, I can't see NB being anything other than sub par tanks. I am waiting to see what is done with the skill tree's for NB in this regard.

Last night I queued in finder as DPS, selecting my dungeons as Vet daily pledge, normal DLC and one other Vet dungeon. 80 mins later i logged off not having found a group. The lack of tanks in this game really needs to be addressed by ZOS. Right now there are only two end game viable tank classes, DK and warden. Anyone picking a different class to tank wth at some point realises they will not be an end game trial tank on that class or that a different class can do it significantly better. In my case, I left the 'tank pool' and now my same main NB toon fills a spot in the already overpopulated DPS pool.

And/or ZOS should probably make tanking in general more attractive so more people play tanks.

bring on the skill tree rebalancing I say!

Couldn't agree more. Although I would like have more skills not just re-balancing.

Mojmir · November 2017

Keep up the downplaying of saptanks, it keeps the nerfs away. Lol

alephthiago · November 2017

Zos killed the sap tank by nerfing siphoning attacks, that is all.

Dredlord · January 2018

_Salty_ wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Sap tanks died when siphoning got nerfed.

Yes, you can still use it, but you give up all your damage at which point go DK or Warden tank and offer far superior group support.

It's sad, my sap tank was the most fun I've had in Pve by a lot

I agree 100% by destroying a class defining skill they killed an entire build in the game. No other class can say that.

Blazing shield, blazeplars are at least as rare now...

RavenSworn · January 2018

Best tank I've had in a long time. Played it about a year or so when I switched my nb dps to sap tanking. I've tried a few different iteration of the sap tank but it doesn't seem to be as effective as it was before the siphoning changes.

Nbs inherently do not have crowd control skills but you alleviate the problem with the initial aoe aggro of sap essence or any other aoe skill. However a nb can be a good healtank given the tools that a nb has right now.

I've been toying with the idea of healtanking a nb for a while now, it's not going to be as good as a proper sap tank but ultimately, a sap tank is essentially, a heal tank.

datgladiatah · January 2018

Liofa wrote: »

Any class can tank end-game content . Sap Tanking is not the way for it . Sap tanking is more like a ''I heal and do damage in case the PUG I joined sucks'' kind of gameplay . As end-game groups want tanks to run support sets , Sap Tanks are not suitable for the job and not wanted in such a group . Item sets that are used on a sap tank build is far from being supportive .

Torug's pact/spell power cure nb sap tanks are pretty damn effective supports. They'll definitely support your damage output more and they build ultimate faster than a dk tank for warhorn. I don't see why anyone wouldn't want that in a 4 man

Liofa · January 2018

datgladiatah wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

Any class can tank end-game content . Sap Tanking is not the way for it . Sap tanking is more like a ''I heal and do damage in case the PUG I joined sucks'' kind of gameplay . As end-game groups want tanks to run support sets , Sap Tanks are not suitable for the job and not wanted in such a group . Item sets that are used on a sap tank build is far from being supportive .

Torug's pact/spell power cure nb sap tanks are pretty damn effective supports. They'll definitely support your damage output more and they build ultimate faster than a dk tank for warhorn. I don't see why anyone wouldn't want that in a 4 man

I said end-game groups . Since when 4-man means end-game ?